there are 2 main problems:

1) energy regen

2) no adequate saves (where is -30% from aoe?)

Why the silence from the devs? If they just would write a message now and then about how the op dps is performing in ranked, they must have a lot of data by now. Just give us something

I don't want do disappoint you but based on devs idea of balancing it'll probably turn out to be something like this:

"Based on our metrics Operatives abuse Cloaking Screen ability in order to survive until the end of the round by staying stealthed. In some cases this can lead to winning a round, therefore we're preventing them from using Cloaking Screen in Ranked Warzone Arenas environment. In exchange, we're reducing the energy cost of using Overload Shot by 1 and increasing the amount of damage absorbed by Shield Probe by 5%."

didn't read all of it, so my ideas may be repeating things that came up already.

concealment

as a baseline, look at the deception sin for inspiration. those guys had everything we should have before 2.5, and they got buffed while we got cover nerf.

some things that come to my mind are

* autocrit or near autocrit on hidden strike. could use some more dmg too. maybe even make it available out of stealth, but without knockdown

* why do we have -.5 sec on our stealth knockdown anyway, compared to sin?

* other knife-attacks could use some more dmg too, it's just bad as it is atm

lethality

* increase range of weakening blast, and maybe also cull

* change the free heal gained from roll to kolto injection, and make it 100%. keep time restriction though

both (this is the actually important part!)

survivability needs to be better!

* shield probe is garbage as is. absorption is gone in a blink, and it'll never save you from continued fire. damage reduction for a period please

* some kind of aoe dmg reduction

* bring back cover - worst move i've seen in the patch notes i had the pleasure to endure

One extra skill each tree

In tier 2 or 4 of skill tree no higher.

Lethality add Nero poison to Vibroblade. This will add a 3rd poison to lethality equaling buffing cull, now because it's shared; snipers get only a small buff because of Vibroblade short range equaling no big deal win win

Concealment this is easy unlicensed equipment. Allows operative to equip poison OR extra vibroblade in Mainhand

Poison (crafted) :; allows vibroblade to be equip with any wide variety of cc poisons with min damage dot

examples slow, negative healing buff, armor penetration

OR

Extra vibroblade same as marauder only 30% dps boost

Explains itself

Gives 3 diffrent playstyle to concealment

1. Rifle and blade

2. Poison and blade

3. Blade and blade

Medic LEAVE ALONE

re-edit

One extra skill each tree

 

In tier 2 or 4 of skill tree no higher.

 

Lethality add Nero poison to overload shot. This will add a 3rd poison to lethality equaling buffing cull, now because it's shared; snipers get only a small buff because of Overload shot short range equaling no big deal win win

 

Concealment this is easy unlicensed equipment. Allows operative to equip poison OR extra vibroblade in Mainhand

Poison (crafted) :; allows vibroblade to be equip with any wide variety of cc poisons with min damage dot

examples slow, negative healing buff, armor penetration

OR

Extra vibroblade same as marauder only 30% dps boost

Explains itself

Gives 3 diffrent playstyle to concealment

1. Rifle and blade

2. Poison and blade

3. Blade and blade

 

 

Medic LEAVE ALONE

I can agree with this, but I don't think Snipers deserve to have this ability with their damage output topping charts right now, it's overkill and unnecessary.

They quite simply do not need it at all. Just give it to lethality spec, but make it class restricted to Operative advanced class only. It still gives Snipers the ability to use lethality and uncleanseable dots, but they do not benefit from a damage boost that you suggest...

Again, THEY DO NOT NEED IT!

While I agree shield probe is garbage and could be buffed to something rediculous like sorc bubble;

Next time people get the chance, find a pocket healer find a pocket tank, Play hutball... grab the ball... pop a wz adrenal, and pop shield probe... tell me what happens...

I've done it many times, and I do not die and waltz all the way to the end zone with almost full HP by the time I get there. Granted teammates help with this, but let's be honest 4-6 people beating on you and can't kill you isn't a survivability problem.

Our damage is.

While I agree shield probe is garbage and could be buffed to something rediculous like sorc bubble;

 

Next time people get the chance, find a pocket healer find a pocket tank, Play hutball... grab the ball... pop a wz adrenal, and pop shield probe... tell me what happens...

 

I've done it many times, and I do not die and waltz all the way to the end zone with almost full HP by the time I get there. Granted teammates help with this, but let's be honest 4-6 people beating on you and can't kill you isn't a survivability problem.

 

Our damage is.

Bads in regs not being able to kill you is hilarious, go try ranked. Enjoy getting almost globaled through guard. I have personally seen a taunted team kill me through guard with an adrenal, evasion and shield probe while I had two kolto infusions two kolto probes and one surgical probe. Not from 30-0, 100-0. That is a survivability problem. Our damage is totally fine l2p

Lethality add Nero poison to overload shot. This will add a 3rd poison to lethality equaling buffing cull, now because it's shared; snipers get only a small buff because of Overload shot short range equaling no big deal win win

Um what ? Snipers have a 30m overload shot. And cull really doesn't need a damage buff.

I would love if you guys could fix the Exfiltrate bug that perma-roots operatives in warzones. It's been around since the ability was first introduced and it's frankly responsible for my strongest urges to quit the game.

Also, Imperial training seems to have neglected teaching us anything about how to survive enemy hostilities once stealth is no longer possible. We're free kills in arenas because everyone knows that we alone lack decent defensive abilities.

maybe not the best place to post this, but

pvp set boni, plz make something actually useful for dps classes, or, at all.

as is now, there's only two good things, which is evasion duration increased by 1 second, and orbital strike duration increased by 3 seconds. as i mentioned above, shield probe is utter garbage, +5 energy, never needed that either.

the pve set has crit for backstab, but no, not the pvp gear.

compare to this, for example the marauder set bonus with increased damage after leap (lol... might as well make it constant flat bonus).

so yea, something useful for pvp set boni, like added dmg, added crit or increasing acid blade DoT duration. anything!

maybe not the best place to post this, but

 

pvp set boni, plz make something actually useful for dps classes, or, at all.

as is now, there's only two good things, which is evasion duration increased by 1 second, and orbital strike duration increased by 3 seconds. as i mentioned above, shield probe is utter garbage, +5 energy, never needed that either.

 

the pve set has crit for backstab, but no, not the pvp gear.

 

compare to this, for example the marauder set bonus with increased damage after leap (lol... might as well make it constant flat bonus).

 

so yea, something useful for pvp set boni, like added dmg, added crit or increasing acid blade DoT duration. anything!

slight correction the set bonus for the pve two set now (since 2.0) is ab increased crit chance on shiv and not on backstab on, which is like a nerf as well...

If you sacrifice some stats you can still use the pve setbonus (even the old one if you still have pre 2.0 pve gear), it might actually still be worth it.

I have to agree about sents/maras. Just my sent gear in full obroan a month ago and not only is the 2 and 4 set good ( 2 set increased damage after leap and 4 set reduced CD on Undying Rage), but also you have hardly any min/maxing to do since most of the mods and enhancement you get from the vanilla pvp gear are quite fitting already, It is rather messy business on the operative as far as i remember

slight correction the set bonus for the pve two set now (since 2.0) is ab increased crit chance on shiv and not on backstab on, which is like a nerf as well...

ah, good to know. i don't pve much

and yes, agreed, even worse.

If you sacrifice some stats you can still use the pve setbonus (even the old one if you still have pre 2.0 pve gear), it might actually still be worth it.

no way. i wanna pvp, and use pvp gear

It is rather messy business on the operative as far as i remember

yea, well. i had to buy almost all high power mods (-15 cuning, +20 power trade) separately, but it's the same on my PT atm. don't know about warrior gear. some enhancements had to be replaced too, but i tried a lot and my stash is full with pvp mods i don't use. i even like a bit of alacrity, especially in concealment spec (3x 68 rating currently). but yea, the sets all look messy in terms of what secondary stats they're supposed to give you.

One extra skill each tree

 

In tier 2 or 4 of skill tree no higher.

 

Lethality add Nero poison to overload shot. This will add a 3rd poison to lethality equaling buffing cull, now because it's shared; snipers get only a small buff because of Overload shot short range equaling no big deal win win

 

Concealment this is easy unlicensed equipment. Allows operative to equip poison OR extra vibroblade in Mainhand

Poison (crafted) :; allows vibroblade to be equip with any wide variety of cc poisons with min damage dot

examples slow, negative healing buff, armor penetration

OR

Extra vibroblade same as marauder only 30% dps boost

Explains itself

Gives 3 diffrent playstyle to concealment

1. Rifle and blade

2. Poison and blade

3. Blade and blade

 

 

Medic LEAVE ALONE

Really interesting concept.

I would love if you guys could fix the Exfiltrate bug that perma-roots operatives in warzones. It's been around since the ability was first introduced and it's frankly responsible for my strongest urges to quit the game.

 

Also, Imperial training seems to have neglected teaching us anything about how to survive enemy hostilities once stealth is no longer possible. We're free kills in arenas because everyone knows that we alone lack decent defensive abilities.

Easy fix would be to grant us 100% immunity from movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics during roll (But it doesn't break root and only cleanses slow if dodge happens).

But since we are supposed to be

Scoundrels/Operatives are meant to be shady, slippery characters that survive by escaping rather than sticking around to face the brunt of a foe’s attack.

Also reduce backblast back to 9s as many have already requested.

And for scrapper/concealment, in talent tree, drop disappearing act/cloaking screen to 45s, and for dirty fighting/lethality defensive screen reflects 75% of damage taken back to attacker.

Just some ideas without changing the specs too drastically, but would love for the gameplay style to change more, as of now, scrapper/concealment rotation feels too stiff and energy management is very unforgiving.

Just going to say it again, we NEED the cooldown on backstab to go back to 9 seconds. And Concealment needs Cloaking Screen reduced to at least 1 minute, or a skill that lowers the cooldown by X amount whenever Y ability is used (in addition to the current 1 min 30 sec cooldown from the tree). Also, Augmented Shields should be the baseline Shield Probe.

General

+ Buff damage on Shiv/Backstab just a bit more

+ Revert to old Backstab cooldown

+ Increase damage absorption on Shield Probe by 30%

+ All Operatives get 3 Tactical Advantages OR increased Tactical Advantage duration

Concealment

+ Very high crit chance OR auto crit on Hidden Strike

+ Buff damage on Lacerate a little more

+ Proc for out of stealth Hidden Strike without knockdown

+ Hidden Strike knockdown lasts 2 seconds OR reduce the resolve it generates

Lethality

+ Weakening Blast only affects the DoTs of the Agent that fired it

+ Increase the damage absorption of Augmented Shields by 10-15%

Eric what happened to class representatives and more communication with the players?

Communication? Why do it at all?

Prepare to the same topic in 2014, when everything starts from the beginning for third time!

Um what ? Snipers have a 30m overload shot. And cull really doesn't need a damage buff.

100% right I was not saying sniper needs a buff; it’s been awhile since I play my slinger, forgot overload shot was 30mm for them.

The principle still stands a 3rd poison on a short range attack = op buff and snipers gets nothing because of a short range attack.How about instead of overload shot 3rd poison is placed on vibroblade = op buff; sniper because of short range gets nothing.

So will re-edit the main post, thx for the observation

I though disagree with cull

Cull needs more burst...

I believe ops need no more migration but more burst. If the team can’t keep you alive you deserve to die, if they do they reap the benefits...

 

I though disagree with cull

Cull needs more burst...

No. If you feel Lethality needs more damage (burst or sustained) you're doing it wrong. The biggest problem with the spec is the setup time coupled with the inherent bad survivability of the class. The only offensive boost Lethality needs is to have Cull come sooner in the opener; two poisons, two TAs and weakening blast is at least one GCD too many (and if you're using it sooner I suspect that is the reason you feel Cull needs more burst). At least your suggestion to add something to Shiv doesn't make the setup even longer as it would if it was tied to Overload Shot, but it's hardly what's needed. It would only serve to make the spec stronger where it's already good, and in no way help where it's struggling.

I believe ops need no more migration but more burst. If the team can’t keep you alive you deserve to die

Really? We have less survivability than all other melee classes in the game; either our defenses are underpowered or everybody else's are overpowered. Both specs have quite alright damage, and both lack the defensive tools required when being focused. If the people who go on and on about how "We need moar damage, survivability is fine" get their way, we will be overpowered against bad opposition and be in pretty much the same place in any competitive environment. No one would want a dps operative in any remotely optimal setup, apart from perhaps with some very niche comp/strategy. With current defenses, an operative would still be easily focused down regardless of how much potential damage output he has.

Offensively, the only buffs I would like to see are what I spoke of above concerning Lethality and perhaps more reliable burst for Concealment (not more damage potential). Defensive buffs are what is required for dps operative to become competitive.

No. If you feel Lethality needs more damage (burst or sustained) you're doing it wrong. The biggest problem with the spec is the setup time coupled with the inherent bad survivability of the class. The only offensive boost Lethality needs is to have Cull come sooner in the opener; two poisons, two TAs and weakening blast is at least one GCD too many (and if you're using it sooner I suspect that is the reason you feel Cull needs more burst). At least your suggestion to add something to Shiv doesn't make the setup even longer as it would if it was tied to Overload Shot, but it's hardly what's needed. It would only serve to make the spec stronger where it's already good, and in no way help where it's struggling..

Wow your making all the wrong assumption and sound like you have a big ego from how you write.

I believe in more burst/cc you believe in more mitigation, it's a matter of opinion and it could go either way.

Burst does not always mean opener, burst can also mean the time you execute your finishing move. Burst means being able to take allot of life down in a short time front loaded or back loaded its the same thing.

The overall point of lethality is to out Dps the healer HPS in a team scenario spreading the love, and when time is right burst your opponent while healer is overloaded.

To state; there is a huge con to add mitigation, you buff medic at the same time and no one wants that either. If it’s done right without touching medic you still would only get a few extra sec. Then the question will arise on how much is that really worth to you, but more importantly your team...Does this make you more coveted than a marauder or slinger...

My principle of a buff to burst for either tree, is with proper team play op would be strong, while still remaining a glass cannon in solo play reliant on skill and CC to defeat opponents. While as a team properly supports you, the class then becomes a necessary part of the group, becoming known as the takedown class the finisher. Being able to take allot of life down in a short time may it be front loaded concealment or back loaded lethality. It gives us, what our class was designed to be a glass cannon.

The question is and always will be what do we bring to the team. If we can’t differentiate ourselves, we will never be wanted as much as other classes?

Burst does not always mean opener, burst can also mean the time you execute your finishing move. Burst means being able to take allot of life down in a short time front loaded or back loaded its the same thing.

A thing I am very aware of. I'm unsure how you came to the conclusion that I wasn't after you read a post in which I said Lethality has burst damage; the spec is more or less the definition of back loaded.

To state; there is a huge con to add mitigation, you buff medic at the same time and no one wants that either. If it’s done right without touching medic you still would only get a few extra sec.

Buffing dps operatives while avoiding buffing healing ones is as easy as putting the buffs in the dps trees. I don't see an issue there. You throw around "mitigation" a lot, I'm not sure if you're using it as a general term for survivability, or if you're talking about actual passive armor mitigation. If the latter, that was never something I suggested. What I'm thinking are things that would not just "only get a few extra sec". The added survivability has to discourage the reds from actually attacking the operative; if the defenses are buffed right it'll keep dps operatives from being the obvious #1 focus targets.

It gives us, what are class was designed to be a glass cannon.

We have different opinions, and that's fine. But I don't see complete glass cannons as being feasible in the current meta. I suppose the class could - theoretically - have its damage buffed so much that it was made good for 4v4. But if damage was to be the one thing to keep an operative in the game, that damage would have to be absolutely ungodly. Even then, the operative's team would have to finish someone on the other team in the short amount of time said operative can survive under focus (not long).

The same damage buff that would make operatives quite good in 4v4 would make them broken in all other kinds of pvp, and any lesser damage buff would not be enough to keep the class afloat in 4v4. As I see it, a defensive buff would be much more balanced towards both 4v4 and 8v8.

Sorry if my previous post seemed rude (I can see how it could), I was just replying to something I did not agree with. I'm just someone stating my opinions on a forum, just like everyone else