How about instead Force Speed and Force cloak make you immune to slow / root for the duration ( yes, after you use it and for the whole time active ) and Force Cloak not break on dots and actually take you out of combat instead.

 

How about it!

 

That and a 2 second immunity on cc breaker would definitely shut me up!

Yeah, Charge magically enables melee to maintain a 100% uptime. Oh, wit, it doesn't - it has a cooldown, and it can be prevented, countered, delayed.

 

Also, Cover. Use it, love it. I do on my Scoundrel. I'd be stupid not to on my Sniper. Lots of pain in the hindquarters to be had for Warriors and Knights. 50-meter range would be redundant, and would make Snipers vastly overpowered. If I got a 40-meter kiting window as opposite to a 20-meter one, I'd be untouchable by any close-range enemy.

 

As a Sage, I run either full Balance, or survival hybrid - I have roots, I have slows, I have hard stuns, I have sprint. Enough to keep the vast majority of melee at bay.

 

o.O No, it doesn't magically give melee 100% uptime, it extends their effective range to 30m. You can't seriously tell me that the low-cooldown leaps don't allow you to catch people whenever you want? I mean, if you leap in, don't have CC immunity, don't snare your target and get knocked back 30m somehow, sure I could agree. That's not the reality, however.

 

As for cover, uhh... Why don't you just sit behind that wall, that way that Sniper won't do anything to you, problem solved! Except not really, because you can't do anything from behind that wall. I can't do anything from cover either, Scoundrel = melee and I pop Sabo Charge from cover. What else do you want me to use against a Guardian, basic attack? Quick Shot? Grenade? That's about all I can think of, honestly, which is admittedly slightly better than you staring at a wall to avoid Sniper fire, but you can just walk up to me crouching in place whereas that Sniper isn't walking around that corner to meet you.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Daiyukie

How about it!

 

That and a 2 second immunity on cc breaker would definitely shut me up!

 

I feel that a root-break on Speed would be just fine. That and, perhaps, a slight scaling increase.

o.O No, it doesn't magically give melee 100% uptime, it extends their effective range to 30m. You can't seriously tell me that the low-cooldown leaps don't allow you to catch people whenever you want? I mean, if you leap in, don't have CC immunity, don't snare your target and get knocked back 30m somehow, sure I could agree. That's not the reality, however.

Effective range of 30 meters is the ability to do the vast majority of your damage at 30 meters. Being able to close distance at 30 meters is not "effective range of 30 meters". It's the ability to close distance. "effective range" of melee is 4 meters.

 

If you want easymode for ranged, just say it. I feel plenty comfortable on a Sage, at least when I'm not getting charged by 3 Marauders simultaneously. I feel plenty comfortable on my Sniper, unless several stealthers decide to make my life living hell.

 

No, I can't catch them "whenever I want". Not cover classes. Not ranged with half a brain who know what Unremitting is and who don't use all of their defenses at once in a state of panic (plenty of Sorcs waste knockback, sprint and even stun at once if they get charged).

Edited July 9, 2012 by Helig

Can we please stop being clueless about what skills do before we cry NERF NERF NERF!

 

Jump can be specced by sentinels to have no range. Yes it's fairly deep in their tree however, the same for the other spec that gives you the crit on force sweep.

 

The root is a max of 3 seconds, and it needs to be talented to 3 seconds by both classes.

 

Now to other classes that have this: Snipers get a 3 second root that's 35m range.

 

The 31 pt talent in the shared Sorc tree also has a 2 second root to it.

 

They all need to effect resolve if they stop your movement completely. There's no sense in having the system to keep you from being chain cc'd if it doesn't do that. When resolve is full there should be nothing stopping you from moving, slows are fine - 100% snares are not.

I feel that a root-break on Speed would be just fine. That and, perhaps, a slight scaling increase.

 

If you want easymode for ranged, just say it. I feel plenty comfortable on a Sage, at least when I'm not getting charged by 3 Marauders simultaneously. I feel plenty comfortable on my Sniper, unless several stealthers decide to make my life living hell.

 

No, I can't catch them "whenever I want". Not cover classes. Not ranged with half a brain who know what Unremitting is and who don't use all of their defenses at once in a state of panic (plenty of Sorcs waste knockback, sprint and even stun at once if they get charged).

 

And a Scoundrel is a cover class? News to me =]

I feel that a root-break on Speed would be just fine. That and, perhaps, a slight scaling increase.

 

If you want easymode for ranged, just say it. I feel plenty comfortable on a Sage, at least when I'm not getting charged by 3 Marauders simultaneously. I feel plenty comfortable on my Sniper, unless several stealthers decide to make my life living hell.

 

No, I can't catch them "whenever I want". Not cover classes. Not ranged with half a brain who know what Unremitting is and who don't use all of their defenses at once in a state of panic (plenty of Sorcs waste knockback, sprint and even stun at once if they get charged).

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/f4LDg0l/mind-over-matter

 

Mind over matter does that, but you can be rerooted .0000001ms after activating it.

And a Scoundrel is a cover class? News to me =]

 

Surprise, ducking is an awesome skill. No charging, no pulling. More or less useful, depending on the spec. Divine for healers, great for Dirty Fighters, still useful for Scrappers (esp when you're still in combat, running on a ramp out of stealth, and there's a warrior below turning in your general direction).

http://www.torhead.com/ability/f4LDg0l/mind-over-matter

 

Mind over matter does that, but you can be rerooted .0000001ms after activating it.

Shadow skill. I thought we were speaking about Sages\Sorcs?

 

Regardless, that would mean the enemy needs to spend two roots, or a root and another CC, and you have other defenses.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Helig

I think the solution is simple : buff mercenaries.

o.O No, it doesn't magically give melee 100% uptime, it extends their effective range to 30m. You can't seriously tell me that the low-cooldown leaps don't allow you to catch people whenever you want? I mean, if you leap in, don't have CC immunity, don't snare your target and get knocked back 30m somehow, sure I could agree. That's not the reality, however.

 

As for cover, uhh... Why don't you just sit behind that wall, that way that Sniper won't do anything to you, problem solved! Except not really, because you can't do anything from behind that wall. I can't do anything from cover either, Scoundrel = melee and I pop Sabo Charge from cover. What else do you want me to use against a Guardian, basic attack? Quick Shot? Grenade? That's about all I can think of, honestly, which is admittedly slightly better than you staring at a wall to avoid Sniper fire, but you can just walk up to me crouching in place whereas that Sniper isn't walking around that corner to meet you.

 

Go to a post I made on this thread earlier, and you'll see that only Vengeance Juggernauts/Vigilance Guardians can spec into CC immunity with their Force Charge/Force Leap. Rage Juggernauts, nor Immortal Juggernauts won't pick up Unstoppable unless they go hybrid.

Scoundrel = mid-ranged, just like the Operative. A lot of your stuff can be lobbed between 10m-30m away. Scoundrel versions of Overload Shot, Corrosive Dart, Sever Tendon, Flashbang, along w/ other tools. There's more than just Shiv/Backstab/Hidden Strike/Lacerate/Debilitate/Acid Blade for abilities(or the Scoundrel's version). If a Guardian/Juggernaut leaps to you, you can always do something like pop your Evasion or Shield Probe, then drop Orbital Strike on yourself.

 

Force Charge/Leap is a 15 second cooldown, unless you're an Annihilation/Watchman spec. The only other leap would be Obliterate, found in the Rage/Focus tree, also a 15 second cooldown, but with 10m range. And if you're going into a panic and blowing your crowd control WITHIN the first four seconds of suffering a leap from a Juggernaut/Jedi Knight, that's on you. You won't drop in 4 seconds unless you get mob justice put to you.

 

Juggernauts have four moves at 30m range. Force Charge, Intercede, Taunt, and Saber Throw,.

Marauders have Force Charge, unless you feel like counting Disable Droid.

Edited July 9, 2012 by coldserpent

Go to a post I made on this thread earlier, and you'll see that only Vengeance Juggernauts/Vigilance Guardians can spec into CC immunity with their Force Charge/Force Leap. Rage Juggernauts, nor Immortal Juggernauts won't pick up Unstoppable unless they go hybrid.

Scoundrel = mid-ranged, just like the Operative. A lot of your stuff can be lobbed between 10m-30m away. Scoundrel versions of Overload Shot, Corrosive Dart, Sever Tendon, Flashbang, along w/ other tools. There's more than just Shiv/Backstab/Hidden Strike/Lacerate/Debilitate/Acid Blade for abilities(or the Scoundrel's version). If a Guardian/Juggernaut leaps to you, you can always do something like pop your Evasion or Shield Probe, then drop Orbital Strike on yourself.

 

Force Charge/Leap is a 15 second cooldown, unless you're an Annihilation/Watchman spec. The only other leap would be Obliterate, found in the Rage/Focus tree, also a 15 second cooldown, but with 10m range. And if you're going into a panic and blowing your crowd control WITHIN the first four seconds of suffering a leap from a Juggernaut/Jedi Knight, that's on you. You won't drop in 4 seconds unless you get mob justice put to you.

 

Juggernauts have two moves at 30m range. Force Charge, and Saber Throw.

Marauders have Force Charge, unless you feel like counting Disable Droid.

 

Well I agree that sentinel's abilities are misunderstood. People sometimes think that sentinels are mythic 31/31/31/31/31 (that's 31 for every spec, including the jedi guardian), have permanent stealth. They can also "stun lock" you with force stasis!

 

Sentinels have a few more attacks at range. Dispatch has 20 or 25 meters range with the 4 set (I don't remember exactly what the range is, but I know it's pretty far), and it hits like a truck.

Blade Storm has a 10 meter range.

Crippling throw has a 10 meter range and if spec'd deep into combat roots the target. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but it reduces healing and is still better than doing nothing in a root. With the same talent, Pacify has also a 10 m range, even though it's not an attack.

 

But overall, if people are going to complain about force leap, of all things, they really ran out of idea. It's far from overpowered and is only annoying when 2-3 JK charge you in a row. But then again, getting 3 people on you spamming grav round, cull or force lightning is even more annoying. Leg shot is way better as a root mechanism, but I don't want to change this thread into a "nerf sniper" thread, because snipers are just fine.

Edited July 9, 2012 by lpsmash

 

And my favorite

-Immobilizes the target for up to 5 seconds through full resolve with a potential 13 second cooldown.

 

 

The default leap root duration is 2 seconds. It can be extended by 1 second by a 2-point talent to a max of 3 seconds. Also, the root starts when leap is activated, not when the leap ends, which means that unless it is used at point blank range, up to 1.5 secs of that root are 'wasted' by the attacker flying through air(you only are both rooted and being attacked for 1.5 secs)

Well I agree that sentinel's abilities are misunderstood. People sometimes think that sentinels are mythic 31/31/31/31/31 (that's 31 for every spec, including the jedi guardian).

 

Sentinels have a few more attacks at range. Dispatch has 20 or 25 meters range with the 4 set (I don't remember exactly what the range is, but I know it's pretty far), and it hits like a truck.

Blade Storm has a 10 meter range.

Crippling throw has a 10 meter range and if spec'd deep into combat roots the target. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but it reduces healing and is still better ******* in a root. With the same talent, Pacify has also a 10 m range, even though it's not an attack.

 

But overall, if people are going to complain about force leap, of all things, they really ran out of idea. It's far from overpowered and is only annoying when 2-3 JK charge you in a row. But then again, getting 3 people on you spamming grav round, cull or force lightning is even more annoying. Leg shot is way better as a root mechanism, but I don't want to change this thread into a "nerf sniper" thread, because snipers are just fine.

 

Vicious Throw/Dispatch for Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight is at 10m, unless you get the medium armor pvp four set bonus to increase it 5 additional meters(at one point, my Juggernaut used the Centurion Weaponmaster's set for that reason).

 

The best way to kill a monster, is to become one. Create a character of the class that vexes you, and learn it, so that you educate yourself better, and can evolve as a player.

 

Unless someone starts complaining/singling out a class specifically before they learn/research what the moves do, I won't drop a caustic jab their way. OP is grumbling because he ended up like Mark Sanchez vs the Oakland Raiders this past year when he tried running it in for a touchdown: A hotdog length short of the goal. Trust me, I had it happen when the ONE time my Marauder was in position to dolphin leap into the endzone with the ball, but I laughed it off(it really was funny, because I'm betting that the other team's players had buttcheeks munching their computer chairs trying to stop me).

Resolve is gimped anyway. The lag effects more than just force leap. I've died from melee attacks and never even saw the person show up who killed me. I think this is a deeper issue than just force leap. Besides I thought roots don't effect resolve anyway. Edited July 9, 2012 by Chimerako

I'm pretty sure every melee class would be happy if they changed it so that roots were effected by, and granted, resolve. Ranged classes, on the other hand, will object strongly. Trust me when I say Jedi Knights suffer from roots being distinct from the resolve system far more than they benefit.

 

(Also, for the record, using Force Leap to root somebody in the fire takes huge balls and skill (assuming you pull it off without dying yourself. It's one of the more awesome things you can do in Huttball.)

 

why would i object. i hate being chained rooted. And I'm a sage dps. Roots are way more annoying then being stunned.

I'm pretty sure every melee class would be happy if they changed it so that roots were effected by, and granted, resolve. Ranged classes, on the other hand, will object strongly. Trust me when I say Jedi Knights suffer from roots being distinct from the resolve system far more than they benefit.

 

(Also, for the record, using Force Leap to root somebody in the fire takes huge balls and skill (assuming you pull it off without dying yourself. It's one of the more awesome things you can do in Huttball.)

 

It's awesome to do even if I do die from the fire pit. To make things super interesting, and allow me to pvp(I have an old computer, and the framerate falls into the dirt from all the graphic effects), I had to remove the main art fx file from my Assets folder, which disables all the glowy effects. Sure, I feel some dread when I see Huttball pop up, but the moment I see someone cross the firepit area, guess where I'm going. I'm gonna bag me a piggyback ride through the barbecue grill. Whether I get burnt to a crisp or not, it's all luck. But if I use that to burn down the running back, I'll eat the death.

The default leap root duration is 2 seconds. It can be extended by 1 second by a 2-point talent to a max of 3 seconds. Also, the root starts when leap is activated, not when the leap ends, which means that unless it is used at point blank range, up to 1.5 secs of that root are 'wasted' by the attacker flying through air(you only are both rooted and being attacked for 1.5 secs)

 

fixed, sorry.

"ruin the ability" oh god I'm laughing.

 

Tell me how a shadow tank immobilizes 100% through resolve.

 

Server force is like 1 second and only available if you get to the very top of the balance tree which has 0% survivability. Thats no where close to the same move doing the same 4 second root no matter what spec they are. In fact you don't even need to have a single skill tree point in order to do so on a sw/jk.

 

You answered your own question.

 

Also, for the record, it's a two second root (which is what leap is untalented) and your root will ALWAYS work on another target unless that target is a Shadow or 'Sin who is using the Force/Tech immunity skill. However, Leap/Charge are counted as melee attacks, meaning they can be parried/dodged. You want to know how you, as a Shadow, can deal with that? Pop Deflection. If you parry the charge, the root doesn't land. Done and done.

 

As for the perks that Shadows/'Sins have over Warriors/Knights:

 

30m stun

30m 8s CC that can be talented for an instant cast

10m ranged slow that can be talented for double duration and half cooldown

AoE knockback

Force/Tech immunity for 5-7 seconds (depending on spec) out of every 45

Talented pull in the tank tree

Ability to use TK Throw/FL at 30m every 1.5 minutes with Recklessness/Force Potency

Possesses a lot of damage that is unavoidable (Shock/Project, TKT/FL, Breach/Discharge, Wither/Slow Time, deep Madness/Balance builds) compared to Knights/Warriors which have, at most, three damage skills that are unavoidable (Scream/Storm, Sweep/Smash, Crush/Exhaustion) two of which are crap/unuseable without talents

And of course....stealth. The ability to get into combat undetected while also ensuring an alpha strike if you're careful and skilled.

Look maras/sents, I don't think you're OP. I think you're balanced and I don't want bioware to nerf you. I just want bioware to be fair here and make your snare/root count towards resolve like all my stuns, mezzes, knockbacks, knockdowns.

 

Edit: some of my numbers were off, my apologies.

 

If you didnt think Mara/Sent were OP, you wouldnt be mentioning them as this isnt an AC ability its the class ability, JK and SW have it, Not Mara and Sent.

The amount of fail in this thread is shocking and I'm dumber for reading it. Gotta love the 31/31/31 build use of leap there OP. Now as far as roots being affected by resolve trust me when I say there isn't a SW/JK alive who doesn't wish that was the case. I spend half my time in WZs rooted with full resolve. And to the people saying leap in general is OP because it closes the gap to ranged guys... Seriously stop. you're embarrassing yourselves.

Bad idea, I don't want any band aids for range like that. I would rather they look at my class and tweak than a broad change like resolve on leap.. It's as silly as adding resolve to roots Edited July 9, 2012 by PloGreen

Charge is a melee attack, so one of your cooldowns give you a 50% defense against it.

 

But I get what OP is saying, the charge from warriors/knights cannot be dispelled by a healer, unlike other immobilization effects.

Charge is a melee attack, so one of your cooldowns give you a 50% defense against it.

 

But I get what OP is saying, the charge from warriors/knights cannot be dispelled by a healer, unlike other immobilization effects.

 

Leg Shot?

So I'm like totally getting across this pit with Full Resolve, Full HP, and 150% speed for the 2 seconds I need to get to the other side. Right?

 

So let's do this. I activate force speed, I'm going, I'm going, BAM. Force Leap. Wait, my resolve is full... why can't I move? My force speed is interruptable? My root cleansing ability of force speed didn't work? What happened? The story ends with me being toasted.

 

Resolve only counts for knockbacks and stuns... Things that prevent full control of your character for a length of time. Root only stops movement. Solution? You know you have full resolve; instead of overthinking it and trying to figure out why you can't move, pass the ball. Pass it back to one of the people supporting you. If you push pass and it brings up the symbol, you aren't stunned.

Many classes can immobilize you. Yes, the ability to do it from far off is very strong, but not gamebreaking. As an operative, there's plenty of times when I get ahead (by suicide if necessary), stealth in front of the fire, walk right up to them and root them. Its all part of the game.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Exsidium

Roots are perfectly balanced in a 1v1 sense. It just gets stupid when you're bombarded with them non-stop. They should generate resolve, but very little.

Don't make the force leap root count for resolve, that's clearly not fair to sentinels/juggs.

 

Make all roots count towards resolve. Considering melee are constantly saying that roots are like stuns to them but don't really effect ranged that much- melee would be overjoyed at that change.

 

Frankly, all CC should count towards resolve- including roots, snares and interrupts- and while you have a white bar, you should straight out just be immune to all CC for a few seconds- none of this watching your bar go from full to nothing while rooted in place unable to do a thing.