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[PvE] The Mercenary / Commando Healing Guide


NeNiMel

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Evidence to back up your statements is where ?

 

Also as im sure your aware DR doesnt mean the stat is useless, it just means you get less benefit from it, but regardless, I'm not trying to be patronising so appologies if thats how i am coming across. I'm trying to get you to show everyone this evidence that your basing this judgement on. I appreciate the point your trying to get across but your just typing the same thing over and over and not showing anyone your evidence.

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I posted the evidence you seek 2 pages back, here let me show you:

Alacrity Percentage = 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( AlacrityRating / 60) / 1.25 ) ) )

Surge Percentage = 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SurgeRating / 60) / 0.22 ) )

 

Now here's a little example for simplicity sake:

Let's say you have a single heal that heals for 5k and is instant and spammable. Also you have 40% crit (an absurdly large amount which favours surge, i picked this to demonstrate how much stronger alacrity actually is).

 

That's a base HPS of 4.2k without any surge or alacrity rating.

 

Now if you spend all your 192 budget of 1100 stat on

 

  • Surge: 28.22%
    which is an HPS increase of 8.95%
  • alacrity: 11.75%
    which is an HPS increase of 11.75%

and if you do a 3/7 split:

  • Surge: 17.15%
    which is an HPS increase of 5.4*%
  • alacrity: 8.81%
    which is an HPS increase of 8.81%
  • together: 14.254*%

 

Happy?

Edited by cs_zoltan
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Also I had to repeat everything i said because you ignored it very time.

But if you don't believe me I hope you believe KBN who is know for his precise theorycrafting:

Kym is not wrong that Alacrity produces more consistent results for all healers, including scoundrels/operatives. Whether or not you're using instant-cast abilities is completely irrelevant. 1% of alacrity is, very directly, 1% more healing done. It is always 1% more healing done barring lag and player error. Surge is variable in that it raises the standard deviation on your healing output and makes individual heals (most noticeably, big heals) more RNG-dependent.

 

Also remember that the rate of return on surge drops into the toilet as you start exceeding the 300-400 mark. Alacrity simply provides better HPS returns, point-for-point, than surge does once you start getting to those relative levels (i.e. when surge is around 400 and alacrity is around 100). Better HPS return means higher ceiling on your potential healing output, and since alacrity is providing that HPS in a controlled fashion, a skilled healer will be able to convert 100% of that HPS into eHPS.

 

This is completely ignoring the most significant factor of alacrity though, which is that it improves the responsiveness of your heals. Being able to do more things faster as a healer means that you can target swap at tighter intervals, shorten your response times to damage, and contract your burst window when needed. This is an ancillary benefit to alacrity that DPS do not get. Thus, alacrity is a fantastic stat on paper when you measure increasing HPS. It's a nearly god-like stat in practice when you combine that with the added control.

 

Putting it plainly, if you're running a low-alacrity build as a healer, you're doing it wrong. The only exception is if you have an absolutely wretched internet connection and your lag is variable and extreme, since that will wash out any benefits from the time shortening. I highly recommend no less than a 50/50 alacrity-to-surge ratio. Running even more alacrity than this ratio (i.e. a 75/25 ratio) would not be harmful. Crit is to taste, certainly, though I wouldn't go much above 400 (even as a scoundrel), and certainly not above 500.

 

---

 

Countering the OP's points more directly… The implication is that alacrity is all about regenerating energy. This makes absolutely zero sense, since alacrity reduces your cast times and GCD duration by exactly the same amount as it increases your regeneration. Thus, the two are in balance. Alacrity is simply a "do everything the same, but faster" stat.

 

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Underworld Medicine. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

 

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.

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Orderken has spoken!

 

Power versus Critical

  • With 14 Aim Augments, the amount of Critical that maximizes expected healing is about 655 in Resurrected gear or 715 in Revanite gear.
  • With 14 Power Augments, the amount of Critical that maximizes expected healing is about 675 in Resurrected gear or 735 in Revanite gear.

Alacrity versus Surge

  • Among your Ear, Implants, and Enhancements, 3 have Surge and 7 have Alacrity.

 

source: http://dulfy.net/2015/01/22/swtor-3-0-mercenary-bodyguard-healing-guide-by-orderken/

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It was condescending because you literally ignored everything I said, not the other way around:

I'd like to see the reasoning behind taking 600 Alacrity rating. I've healed as a Merc since beta and have always avoided it for high end game healing as ive felt it creates 2 many resource issues.

 

A bodyguard guildie took up 400 alacrity rating for a test and noticed it only gave him 0.2 extra resource regen. That coupled with the minimal cast time increase (1.5 sec rapid scan down to 1.44 secs) and the fact theres only one ability (rapid scan) that your going to be channeling anyway. We came to the conclusion that its still something to avoid.

 

I still fail to see a reason to take alacrity seriously as a Merc when Power, Surge and crit will potentially increase the amount ALL of your heals do, whereas Alacrity will only decrease the cast time of ONE of them.

 

I saw a guide a while ago that showed that altho alacrity is the best stat for HPS it is also the worst stat for heat management, unless anyone can show some definitive maths on this forum to proove otherwise, i find it quite hard to take anything over 0 alacrity tbh.

Here you said alacrity doesn't affect isntants and creates resource issues.

Alacrity decreases cast time, channel time, gcd, icd, cd and increase resource regen to off-set the previously listed. Oh and it only competes with surge not power and crit.

 

Surge has bad diminishing return so after like 300-400 points it doesn't worth it anymore.

Here I said that is not the case because it also reduces instants and resource regen is granted by alacrity to offset the faster spending.

You may not have read my post properly, but i made it clear that i was aware what it does, but you still miss the point i have made. Only 2 of your heals needs to be channeled, at the most 3, which still leaves 5 others that are instant cast.

 

The regen you gain from it doesn't give as much as a Kolto shot here and using supercharged gas would do. 400 gives an additional 0.2 regen.

 

So the only thing imo thats beneficial is the Cd/Gcd reductions. But imo, i still dont think its that ideal to take 600 on 1 stat JUST for that purpose because at the end of the day, its still a massive resource sink.

 

Unless anyone can show the maths and not (opinions), for the CD reduction you would gain per 100 of the stat for example, i'm still inclined to feel this guide is giving people the wrong ideas about stat management.

Then here you claimed you know what it's doing yet again you say it only affects casted abilities and that it doesn't give enough resource back.

sigh, having instants or casts doesn't matter since it decreases both equally. Having 8% alacrity for example means you will do everything precisely 8% faster. Which means 8% HPS increase.

Surge hits DR hard at 300-400 rating, if you wish to waste your tertiary stats, by all means go ahead.

 

Just saying even melee classes with 100% instants are using alacrity even though they have to blow 750 on accuracy, that should tell you how much stronger alacrity actually is. And healers only need surge and alacrity.

 

PS: The resource regen boost is ONLY for offsetting the cast/gcd reduction, so basicaly you are back to square 1.

Then I told you the same thing again. But you still didn't get it:

As i said, without any maths to show on here, its all just opinions really.

 

Look, im not trying to pick a fight over who knows best or what ever. I'm just looking for 100% accurate info and without any definitive evidence, its hard to take anyones word as whats right and whats not right. When i have healed current HM encounters with no problem using 0 alacrity and having 0 resource issues.

 

From 3 years worth of HM and nim healing experience, ive always found, altho it adds to your number out put, it also adds the same to your resource usage. And the damage thats done at times in these encounters, you need to manage your resource bar effectivly. So 8% faster is great but burning your resources 8% faster, aint so great.

 

And yes i know it has changed somewhat from previously, but what i am asking, for the sake of any mercs who read this post, is put down some evidence to back up the claims that are being made is all. Its ok saying what does what, but without cast iron evidence, how can you say for fact that its 100% correct? You cant. Personally, i'd love to see some evidence down but until then i'll go with what i know has fit my playstyle so far as i trust it to work for me.

 

A lot of different people will have different play styles so in their opinion, what works for them is right. All i am saying, is lets see the evidence that whats stated on this thread is correct or its just a persons opinion of what they feel has worked well for them and nothing more im afraid.

 

So

Even though I told you twice now that alacrity doesn't cause resource issues you still insisted that it does. If I have to say something three times and you still refuse to see don't be surprised if I lose my (not very big to begin with) patience.

Edited by cs_zoltan
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I asked you to show me evidence and you made the below post, its not ignoring your comments, its asking you to to show me the proof that what your saying is correct. Imo if someones suggesting i shud totally change out my playstyle and rework half of my stats because i wont get the best out the class, then yeah i am gonna question it. And yeah, i am gonna ask you to show me some proof.

 

Also I had to repeat everything i said because you ignored it very time.

But if you don't believe me I hope you believe KBN who is know for his precise theorycrafting:

 

The trouble with written conversations, they are so easily taken out of context and i believe you think i am trying to argue with you when i am not and perhaps feel insulted because you feel i am ignoring your comments when all ive done is ask for proof that what your saying is correct. Again, that is wrong, I am simply asking for info, so theres no need to be condescending.

 

Also. you read to much into my post, ive not said anywhere that alacrity doesnt have any affect on instants, i said theres only one ability that your going to be channeling anyway (which is wrong, theres 2 :p). That doesnt actually say i think its got no effect on instants. So your actually assuming i mean something there that i dont :)

 

You are also claiming i dont know what it does, when i actually state those things in my post anyway :p

 

Its not that i dont get how it works, i was simply asking for proof (which u posted) and yes i will now be taking it more seriously. I've always played with 0 and done fine in the past and the only reason i was on this thread was because i was looking into it anyway. But its hard to take things seriously when people make a claim and dont back it up with evidence.

 

If i told you that your doing everything wrong, im sure you would want me to prove it.

 

Also, you've not mentioned anything about "not causing resource issues" on the last 2 pages. The rest of those i read ages ago so if you did it prior to that, im afraid ive slept since then.

 

Anyway, lets not derail this thread. I asked a question, i got the info i wanted. Lets leave it at that as you've obviously taken offence to being questioned.

 

Thanks anyway

Edited by Sandsz
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Anyway, lets not derail this thread. I asked a question, i got the info i wanted. Lets leave it at that as you've obviously taken offence to being questioned.

 

Thanks anyway

 

TBH I tend to speak my mind which often comes off as being rude, rarely it's intentional but mostly it's just how I talk. I'm quick to anger but also quick to cool down :)

So no offence taken.

 

Also, you've not mentioned anything about "not causing resource issues" on the last 2 pages. The rest of those i read ages ago so if you did it prior to that, im afraid ive slept since then.

I actually tried to, here:

And I said numerous time that alacrity boosts resource regen IN THE SAME MAGNITUDE it boost speed. So if you do everything 8% faster and recover 8% more resource at the same time what will happen?

Here:

PS: The resource regen boost is ONLY for offsetting the cast/gcd reduction, so basicaly you are back to square 1.

And here:

and increase resource regen to off-set the previously listed.
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I'm sure like a lot of commandos/Mercs right now, I'm undecided how much Critical Rating to go for. After reading both guides on Dulfy it should either be at 200 or 650. One seems low and the other high.. so I've settled somewhere in the middle for now.

 

I understand the argument that if you have high surge/critical multiplier then you need a high critical in order to make use of it, i just don't want to run with not enough power.

 

Has anyone done enough testing to give an idea of the ideal number for Critical Rating?

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I'm sure like a lot of commandos/Mercs right now, I'm undecided how much Critical Rating to go for. After reading both guides on Dulfy it should either be at 200 or 650. One seems low and the other high.. so I've settled somewhere in the middle for now.

 

I understand the argument that if you have high surge/critical multiplier then you need a high critical in order to make use of it, i just don't want to run with not enough power.

 

Has anyone done enough testing to give an idea of the ideal number for Critical Rating?

 

Orderken uses models do determine BiS gearing not just guessing, so you can believe him that 600+ crit is BiS. High crit has the best HPS return for your stat investment. Contrary to popular fears dropping 650 power won't suddenly make your heals pathetically weak.

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Orderken uses models do determine BiS gearing not just guessing, so you can believe him that 600+ crit is BiS. High crit has the best HPS return for your stat investment. Contrary to popular fears dropping 650 power won't suddenly make your heals pathetically weak.

 

Thanks for the fast response!

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  • 1 month later...

I finally got time to make some updates to the guide so here it is :)

 

Highlights:

  • Added regeneration tiers.
  • Changed the utility recommendations.
  • Added Rotation Priorities.
  • New personal stat goals.
  • Added a link to Orderken’s healing model.

 

As always it is nice to see the guide being used :) If you got any questions please just post a reply!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Feedback time.

Supercharged Gas

Supercharged Gas is still one of the core abilities in the mercenary rotation even after it has been nerfed in 3.0. The ability provides great burst healing potential or works as a rolling buff that should be kept up as often as possible:

  • Heat management
    When Supercharged Gas is being activated it vents 6 heat.

That part is wrong, it's 10 heat.

Power or critical rating?

The balance between power and critical rating is mostly up to personal preferences, but critical rating should not become too high, because of the dismissing return at higher values. I personally prefer to have some critical rating, but not too much since I do not like to base the size of my heals on luck.

 

Here is some numbers for my personal stat goals. These numbers is for full 198 gear rating.

- Alacrity rating = 840

- Surge rating = 360

- Critical rating = 300-400

 

Rest of my power and critical rating budget goes into power. The values have not been tested yet, but these are the values I am aiming for.

  • Saying crit is up for personal preference is a bit missleading. Every stat has it's own rate of return and diminishing return and contribution to healing output. And they are all constant. Because of this there is a clear combination of stats that maximizes output.
  • Contrary to popular beliefs crit is not a bad stat. It's just Power in 2.x worth the investment more. Crit has bad rate of return, which means how much you get out of 1 rating. But has good diminishing return, which means how much less you get from 1 rating when you already have more than 0 of said rating.
    This is in contrast to Surge which has good initial rate of return, but bad diminishing return. This is why even though alacrity is a stronger overall stat % to % in low stat budget (<=192) surge has higher priority, but doesn't exceeds 400 rating in higher budget.
  • But we reached a point where our high stat budget alters priorities. Power throughout 2.x was a god stat. In 3.0 it's priority droped some in exchange for crit and alacrity. The reasons for that:
    • Healing amount of an ability has the following equation:
      Heal = HealingPowerCoefficient * BonusHealing + StandardHealthPercent * 14520.
      BonusHealing (in case of Mercs) consist of Aim, Cunning, Power and TechPower. Augments and crit aside they make up a strict amount. And that amount is not dominated by Power alone.
      Avarage healing looks like this:
      Healing * ( 1 + crit * surge ) * Multiplicative bonuses * Additive bonuses // I only done extensive theory crafting with dps, but more than likely the multiplicative bonuses are: Supercharge, Supercharge Gas, Invigorated. Additives: Discipline bonuses such as Empowered Scans.
    • This is where the stat budget comes into play. Power makes up less than 3rd of the Healing an ability does. And even less of the avarage healing. And considering that secondary stat budget (augments aside) is around the 2k mark droping some power for crit doesn't reduce Healing a lot, and avarage healing even less, or in case of the optimal amount of crit it actually increases avarage healing.
      Dropping 500 Power for example when the budget is above 2k is less serious than it used to be with a budget of 1k.
    • An other example of this high secondary stat budget is that most dps spec's BiS gear is around 700 alacrity. Which means they have to invest into alacrity augments. For so long people said that Power is the best augment with Mainstat as a runnerup that it's eye opening to see so many specs with alacrity augments.

Now the reason why I say personal preference is missleading and not wrong is because deviating from optimal crit doesn't exceed expected healing output by more than 2%. So yes you can run crit as you feel like it and won't have earthshattering healing output problems, but it's not optimal. I see no reason not to run optimal gear if you ask me.

 

For reference this is optimal crit:

  • With 14 Aim Augments, the amount of Critical that maximizes expected healing is about 655 in Resurrected gear or 715 in Revanite gear.
  • With 14 Power Augments, the amount of Critical that maximizes expected healing is about 675 in Resurrected gear or 735 in Revanite gear.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Feedback time.

 

That part is wrong, it's 10 heat.

 

Thanks missed that one :) At least it was correct the other places.

 

  • Saying crit is up for personal preference is a bit missleading. Every stat has it's own rate of return and diminishing return and contribution to healing output. And they are all constant. Because of this there is a clear combination of stats that maximizes output.
  • Contrary to popular beliefs crit is not a bad stat. It's just Power in 2.x worth the investment more. Crit has bad rate of return, which means how much you get out of 1 rating. But has good diminishing return, which means how much less you get from 1 rating when you already have more than 0 of said rating.
    This is in contrast to Surge which has good initial rate of return, but bad diminishing return. This is why even though alacrity is a stronger overall stat % to % in low stat budget (<=192) surge has higher priority, but doesn't exceeds 400 rating in higher budget.
  • But we reached a point where our high stat budget alters priorities. Power throughout 2.x was a god stat. In 3.0 it's priority droped some in exchange for crit and alacrity. The reasons for that:
    • Healing amount of an ability has the following equation:
      Heal = HealingPowerCoefficient * BonusHealing + StandardHealthPercent * 14520.
      BonusHealing (in case of Mercs) consist of Aim, Cunning, Power and TechPower. Augments and crit aside they make up a strict amount. And that amount is not dominated by Power alone.
      Avarage healing looks like this:
      Healing * ( 1 + crit * surge ) * Multiplicative bonuses * Additive bonuses // I only done extensive theory crafting with dps, but more than likely the multiplicative bonuses are: Supercharge, Supercharge Gas, Invigorated. Additives: Discipline bonuses such as Empowered Scans.
    • This is where the stat budget comes into play. Power makes up less than 3rd of the Healing an ability does. And even less of the avarage healing. And considering that secondary stat budget (augments aside) is around the 2k mark droping some power for crit doesn't reduce Healing a lot, and avarage healing even less, or in case of the optimal amount of crit it actually increases avarage healing.
      Dropping 500 Power for example when the budget is above 2k is less serious than it used to be with a budget of 1k.
    • An other example of this high secondary stat budget is that most dps spec's BiS gear is around 700 alacrity. Which means they have to invest into alacrity augments. For so long people said that Power is the best augment with Mainstat as a runnerup that it's eye opening to see so many specs with alacrity augments.

Now the reason why I say personal preference is missleading and not wrong is because deviating from optimal crit doesn't exceed expected healing output by more than 2%. So yes you can run crit as you feel like it and won't have earthshattering healing output problems, but it's not optimal. I see no reason not to run optimal gear if you ask me.

 

The reason I say its up to personal preferences was because some people prefer to have increased predictability on the abilities especially when it comes to healing.

 

That being said the values listed earlier was too low! even compared to what I am running with. I have added the optimum values to the guide so people can see these too. I have also rephrased the crit/power section.

The stat goals are constantly changing and will probably be changed again in the future :)

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Hey, thanx for the guide and keeping it updated as the game progresses and revises itself.

 

One thing I think you may touch on is maybe the difference between using an assault cannon and a rifle for the commando. I know and understand why this is sub optimal, but new players looking at this guide for the first time may not.

 

It makes no difference to bounty hunters since they're locked into dual pistols, but I've seen a fair number of 'mandos rockin the rifle while healing instead of the cannon. I've done it myself while leveling in flashpoints, especially when dps had the situation well under control, but a little blurb on the pros and cons and what skills are locked out/affected might be of help to someone.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have updated the links in the gearing section so they correctly links to a description of the BiS gear available. The TORCommunity database also shows from which items a specific modification can be pulled :)

 

@althene thanks for the feedback! I happy to be of help :) With regard to the assault canon vs rifle debate, I do not find it relevant for the guide. Personally I main a merc and only play my commando very rarely, so it is not issue that affects me. As far as I have read the rifle does not affect the healing potential, but will limit the ability to do off-DPS. I see no reason to not use a assault canon, because a healer should use idle moments to help DSP'ing when there are nothing to heal. Besides assault canons looks bad-*** :p

Edited by NeNiMel
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  • 2 months later...

With 3.3 there have been some changes to merc and commando healers. I haven't had time to test the changes myself, but from what I have read the overall playstyle and output stay approximately the same. If anything the output and burst capabilities have increased a tiny bit.

 

I will update the guide as soon as I have tested the changes. If you have anything to add or thoughts about the changes please post them in the tread :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The 3.3 changes does not seem to change the overall playstyle of the Mercenary and Commando healers.

 

The heat and energy management seem to have become a little harder again, but it is easy to overcome by using more Kolto Shots in the rotation.

The overall output also seems to have increased slightly, probably because of the increased critical chance on Rapid Scan and Medical Probe.

 

Do you agree?

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  • 2 months later...
  • 5 months later...
The 3.3 changes does not seem to change the overall playstyle of the Mercenary and Commando healers.

 

The heat and energy management seem to have become a little harder again, but it is easy to overcome by using more Kolto Shots in the rotation.

The overall output also seems to have increased slightly, probably because of the increased critical chance on Rapid Scan and Medical Probe.

 

Do you agree?

 

Hey there, is the guide updated for 4.0? I don't know if there were any big changes. Also I see you play on red eclipse, mind if I messaged you online for tips?

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Hey there, is the guide updated for 4.0? I don't know if there were any big changes. Also I see you play on red eclipse, mind if I messaged you online for tips?

 

This guide is not updated for 4.0, but the rotation and strategies basically remains the same as in 3.0. If you want an updated version you can check out my guide at dulfy http://dulfy.net/2015/11/09/swtor-4-0-mercenary-pve-healing-guide-by-nenimel/

 

There haven't been any changes since 4.0 as I recall so that should still be fully up to date :D

 

And sure just send a message ingame. My main is named "Atmea".

Edited by NeNiMel
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