Should Lana walk the path of light and join the circle of jedis?

 

Should Lana forever be a sith and turn even darker?

Should Lana walk the path of light and join the circle of jedis?

 

Should Lana forever be a sith and turn even darker?

 

If you think Lana is Light, you're not giving her a chance to be Dark.

 

Now, the Jedi will take anyone (they have a Pureblood Sith and a former Dark Council member) but you have to mean it.

Should Lana walk the path of light and join the circle of jedis?

 

Should Lana forever be a sith and turn even darker?

 

I doubt that light will ever corrupt her. But ever more - Jedi is totalitaristic sect, in which individual have 2 option - follow all what master says undoubtly, or become "fallen" for not doing 1st thing well enough. Just as Ashara - she has done nothing DS by lore, but just because she can't look at how passivity of Jedy is leaves common people suffering - Jedi isn't consider her as Jedi anymore. And it not just with her, its in "canonical" films too and all over SW lore. And Lana is too much liberal even by Sith standards.

I would assume she isn't considered a Jedi anymore because she joined a Sith Lord and helped him murder Republic citizens for no reason. Edited November 8, 2015 by OldVengeance

I would assume she isn't considered a Jedi anymore because she joined a Sith Lord and helped him murder Republic citizens for no reason.

 

Nope, in her dialoges, she is LS as f&ck to the end. Always cared so much about saving meatbags, and getting very angry on Incv for killing,

Yeah I know, but Sith PCs invariably kill Jedi and Republic troops. It's unavoidable in gameplay, so I have to assume it's canonical in the story too. Ashara may always maintain she's loyal to the Jedi Order but her actions say otherwise.

Nope, in her dialoges, she is LS as f&ck to the end. Always cared so much about saving meatbags, and getting very angry on Incv for killing,

 

Er no Big E calls her out she is an impure jedi aka she has fallen she is just being bloody delusional about it and a plot point that still angers me to this day. Since class stories are axed we can't make her go all the way. We ended her companion conversations at her admitting peace is a lie.

 

If I can't fully convert her in the expansion she is going to end up a corpse.

 

Also Lana light side? Never. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA to quote the jedi knight to the imperial mole. "Lana may seem like a nice sith but if she finds out she will eviscerate you."

 

She is just more of the pragmatic/realistic and cold logic kind of sith and is still all about hatred and such remember the poor droid on the ship? Plus the Zakuul knight.

Edited November 9, 2015 by lokdron

Being a Jedi and being a Sith, is about maintaining their beliefs. Those who don't agree with the orders beliefs tend to go their seperate way (Jedi) or are killed (Sith). Revan has claimed to be both and inbetween.

 

I doubt Lana would ever consider herself a Jedi, but she may one day be able to consider herself not a Sith or a Light Sided Sith.

 

Though, while I can't imagine her actually doing it, and I haven't seen the letter, BW did think to think she'd tell the PC how great they are to give an oppressive speech to people. Which really, just sounds stupid in the storyline, but they likely needed someone to send you a letter after the speech and Theron got the Inspirational Speech Letter.

Lana better never turn evil and go light side. She seems to be more into the dark side this xpac. At least in the SoR she would have lamented the deaths of the random people. Only time I can think that she was happy to kill someone was the double agent on Ziost. But no: she is a pragmatic Sith. Her eyes- Yellow- tell the story that she is a Sith, or at least dark side practitioner, first and foremost. Much like some Jedi are pragmatic but still follow their stupid code.

Er no Big E calls her out she is an impure jedi.

Exactly. Despise the fact that she is still is LS jedi as much as possible, - merciful and compassion. Some tard-master from Jedi Order is calling her an "impure jedi", just because she isn't follow un-doubtly the jedi master ideas, and dare to challenge Jedi passivity. Jedi Order in a nutshell, actually. One will fallow all they ideas as a trained dog, or become "fallen" or "impure jedi" for daring to challenge their ********. And this in the same time when republic have war-mongering Jedi twilek on post of Cansler. The only true sad thing is that in SW beyond "canonical" films, is so many other factions of force-users, including very merciful and caring for humans life. But yet game developers is forced to make games about ****** jedi-tards on roles of "good guys" when they are clearly just totalitaric sect.

being a Sith, is about maintaining their beliefs.

Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.

Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.

Whereas, obviously, there's only one interpretation of the Jedi and their beliefs, and it's the one you hate. I can only assume you're not much of a fan of Darth Bane, the Sith'ari of prophecy who killed almost every other living Sith in his day so that from then on they would operate by his Rule of Two. So much for all that diversity of interpretation.

 

As for Lana, I don't know. I'm not sure how to interpret her. "Pragmatism" alone is not a motivation or a goal. Is she a true believer in the Sith and the Empire? Does she, in the end, want to see the Republic destroyed and its people enslaved? In the end, it's what she really believes in that will determine where she will end up.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Joachimthbear

Lol no. Sith is about breaking chains, and seeking great challenges, for world views and ideas include. There is as many Sith's point of views on world as Siths themselves. Please play some SW games first, or at least Empire story line.

 

There's as many Jedi point of views as their are Jedi themselves.

 

Qui Gon didn't follow the Jedi's Order's way of thinking. Obi Wan rebeled himself.

 

Let me guess...if you're like most people who don't care for the Jedi...it's because you think they keep you from being yourself because they say one can't have a relationship? Something many already know many will fail with.

 

When it's the Sith who show why they have such a rules (whether one believes in the rule or not). You're in love with someone you have all this power and they're killed! Good chance you go all Anakin and wipe out the village that let it happen! You love someone and walk in on them cheating on you! Good chance one or both of them become a blood stain on your wall.

 

I'm sure a LS Sith would just dismember them all and get LS points for not killing them, but that's besides the point

When it's the Sith who show why they have such a rules (whether one believes in the rule or not). You're in love with someone you have all this power and they're killed! Good chance you go all Anakin and wipe out the village that let it happen! You love someone and walk in on them cheating on you! Good chance one or both of them become a blood stain on your wall.

Anakin wasn't raised as Sith though ... It was the Jedi that failed to address his issues. Avoiding attachments is not the way to prevent disasters, teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.

...teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.

But how do you do that in advance of the loss itself? Only by teaching some kind of philosophy or mental preparedness to deal with death... which the Jedi do. How well they do it is a different question, but can easily come under the heading of "bad writing" rather than "the Jedi have the wrong approach".

 

Based on what we know of the Jedi and their beliefs I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Anakin got years of teaching and meditation on the subject of what "there is no death, there is the Force" means. But until the moment when his mother died in his arms, his belief in that principle had never been truly tested. The Jedi could have given him counselling and support afterwards, if he had told them the truth about what happened. But that would have been too late to stop his vengeful rampage anyway.

 

I know this isn't an argument you like, but there really is a world of difference between recognising a problem (Force users falling to the Dark Side because of personal trauma) and applying an imperfect solution, versus outright encouraging the problem as a source of "strength".

I would assume she isn't considered a Jedi anymore because she joined a Sith Lord and helped him murder Republic citizens for no reason.

 

I would also assume it's because she's sleeping with said Sith Lord (or might be. You might not have romanced her).

 

Nope, in her dialoges, she is LS as f&ck to the end. Always cared so much about saving meatbags, and getting very angry on Incv for killing,

 

She is so not Light-side anymore. Or, to be specific, she's not what the Jedi would consider Light. By the end of her conversations she's a Grey Jedi or a Light Sith--she goes on about how peace is a lie and the Jedi are complacent and how you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals. Very, very un-Jedi like, so of course they renounce her.

 

What she doesn't like is mindless bloodshed. She's fine with murder if it has a reason. Not so much with torturing puppies for ***** and giggles.

Indeed she is rather "grey" or the darker shade of it as I said the problem is she still thinks she is a jedi and she believes she hasn't fallen. As I said in my last post I hope its something we can sort out in the next expansion.

 

To either put her on the correct path or complete the process of her falling to the dark side completely when you reach the end of her conversations she is almost there.

 

Oh and its nice of bioware to tie companion conversations to story points not approval I feel it flows a lot better.

Edited November 11, 2015 by lokdron

Anakin wasn't raised as Sith though ... It was the Jedi that failed to address his issues. Avoiding attachments is not the way to prevent disasters, teaching young Padawan's and Jedi to handle loss is a better and more durable approach.

 

I agree. I don't think Jedi's no attachment philosophy is the right one (though I will say, maybe it works better for the those indoctrined younger...which I never got the feeling that our characters were raised in the order) or the right way to go, but, Sith way of dealing with it, is to do what Anakin did

 

That's their way. Channel the hatred. Kill them all.

Ashara LS as **** to the end?! She came along me kicking Tython's sorry butt and she didn't say anything about that.

Also, if you click on her between conversations chances are she recites both Jedi and Sith code in the same time.

Also she says that she found peace but in the same time understood the sith "passion" thing or something like that but basically she tells you she thinks to have understood both doctrins, questions both orders etc. But in the end she's more sith-like than jedi for sure. But not the "let's zap people for the lelz" type of sith and that's why I take her around every mission instead of Xalek.

My sith went more grey in the process too in her contact. Started her as a "zappy" stih style and just figured she couldn't ignore everything Ashara was questioning and eventually made her tone it down regarding the mindless zapping so much she's now back to "neutral" in alignment.

 

Regarding Lana well...yeah , she looks pragmatic and all in SoR but in Kotfe I saw her getting mad at my sith and trying to kill that knight (while here, my sith got pragmatic instead telling her to let him live so that they prove the emperor lies about them)....

Nah, I'm confident she won't turn into a jedi.

 

On the question about "are Jedi good guys"?

It's a religious sect that is less nocive than the Sith for sure. But still I guess the galaxy would have fared much better without Sith and Jedi jumping at each other's throats during milleniums for belief matters and then vengeance too.

Are the Sith only to blame for this neverending war? I don't think so. The Jedi are prone to raise their lightsaber as soon as they spot a Sith as well.

During SoR they could see how strong they can get working along, same seems to be going on in Kotfe but nooo they have to go back to their neverending feud. So far for "freedom" and "peace".

I would also assume it's because she's sleeping with said Sith Lord (or might be. You might not have romanced her).

 

 

 

She is so not Light-side anymore. Or, to be specific, she's not what the Jedi would consider Light. By the end of her conversations she's a Grey Jedi or a Light Sith--she goes on about how peace is a lie and the Jedi are complacent and how you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals. Very, very un-Jedi like, so of course they renounce her.

 

What she doesn't like is mindless bloodshed. She's fine with murder if it has a reason. Not so much with torturing puppies for ***** and giggles.

 

Ashara outright approvs Sith torture (of another Sith) on Corellia. Dark Side points and all. The guy's cooperation was needed and he was being stubborn.

But how do you do that in advance of the loss itself?

 

The same way everyone learns, while growing up. Loosing friends (not neccesarily through death...), beloved pets, etc. Loss really is not that exceptional, most people learn to deal with it without any special training.

 

Based on what we know of the Jedi and their beliefs I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Anakin got years of teaching and meditation on the subject of what "there is no death, there is the Force" means.

Based on what we've seen, he's got absolutely zero teaching or support in dealing with his past.

 

Btw, I've yet to see any solid explanation about "there is no death", I wonder if there's been any teaching on that line.

 

But until the moment when his mother died in his arms, his belief in that principle had never been truly tested.

Too bad, a pet in his care might have taught him more about life and death then all the hours of studying the Jedi Code.

 

The Jedi could have given him counselling and support afterwards, if he had told them the truth about what happened. But that would have been too late to stop his vengeful rampage anyway.

He apparently lacked the trust to talk about what happened. That kind of trust is rooted in safe attachments.

 

I know this isn't an argument you like, but there really is a world of difference between recognising a problem (Force users falling to the Dark Side because of personal trauma) and applying an imperfect solution, versus outright encouraging the problem as a source of "strength".

 

Force users don't fall because of personal trauma, they fall because they fail to handle personal trauma. You can not reasonably expect to be able to protect all force users from personal trauma for ever; the 'imperfect solution' isn't just imperfect, it is destined to fail, frequently.

 

The problem with the imperfect solution is that safe attachments are crucial for a child's healthy development.

Everybody seems to just ignore canon lore...

 

Jedis, totalitarians ? You can't call a sect totalitarian just because it expels you, when you don't want to respect the rules. It's the exact same thing in... Well, everything : school, work, associations... Friendship too, you don't play around someone who continues to hit on your spouse behind your back.

 

And the dark side COOOORRUPTS. It makes every feeling more powerful, and turns them dark.

 

And even though, Jedis are very forgiving. Count Doku, anyone ? They didn't touch him, after leaving the order. Bastila ? she had a child, and is still a master of the order.

 

Accusing the Jedis to be dictators is a very childish attitude.

 

Oh, and Anakin ? He wouldn't have been a fallen Jedi, if everybody listened to the council, and left alone on his planet.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Audoucet

And the dark side COOOORRUPTS. It makes every feeling more powerful, and turns them dark.

 

When looking at the movies, you only see it's the choices characters make that turn them to dark side, not the powers they use. Though we do have an expression, I think, stating that 'power corrupts' ....

 

And even though, Jedis are very forgiving. Count Doku, anyone ? They didn't touch him, after leaving the order. Bastila ? she had a child, and is still a master of the order.

Forgiving? What's there to forgive about bearing child? Edited November 12, 2015 by nimmerstil

Based on what we've seen, he's got absolutely zero teaching or support in dealing with his past.

Right, there are years-long gaps in what we see of Anakin's or anyone's training. So what do we fill those gaps with? Non-stop lightsaber practice? Advanced classes in how to understand Master Yoda?

 

You seem to be assuming that whenever we don't explicitly see the Jedi are doing, it's something cruel or neglectful. No doubt I'm making equally wild, opposite assumptions. But if what we're guessing at is the writers' intent, and since the writers obviously want us to think of the Jedi as good guys, relatively speaking, doesn't it make sense to be charitable in our assumptions, when lacking any other evidence?

 

I haven't read or seen a huge amount of Star Wars expanded universe stuff, but I have read the comics with Zayne Carrick, where he does have friends and contact with the outside world, even with the families of his fellow padawans. Does this contradict material elsewhere? Maybe, but it's at least a point in favour of the idea that the Jedi don't cloister their trainees away from all personal attachment. They do seem to object to specific relationships or kinds of relationships, but anything I can say to that is based on my own interpretations of the Force and its workings.

 

Forgiving? What's there to forgive about bearing child?

The key point, if I understood correctly, is that the Jedi do not have an absolute, definite "no love and relationships or you're out" rule.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Joachimthbear

You seem to be assuming that whenever we don't explicitly see the Jedi are doing, it's something cruel or neglectful.

No. You don't see any traces of (effective) training or counseling to help him deal with his past, the logical conclusion is that he received none. The Jedi took Anakin from his mother, with all good intentions and we all agree with their cause of action at that point. We do not see what was done to mend his trauma's, but we do know that whatever was done, or not, was ineffective.

 

Assuming otherwise is making assumption that do not respect what we're shown.

 

and since the writers obviously want us to think of the Jedi as good guys,

I am not saying they don't want us to think of them as the good guys, I am saying that what they are showing us regarding the raising of force sensitives children has obvious flaws.

 

Does this contradict material elsewhere? Maybe,

It does. Everything we see in the movies suggest they are removed from their families at a (preferably) young age. Anakin never sees his and it is strongly suggested that this would preferably happened at a younger age. You are the first to suggest that is not their usual cause of action.

 

My position is that taking children away from their families and not allowing them to bond and form safe attachments (with caretakers) is unhealthy - and a recipe for failure (falling to the ds at a later age).

 

The key point, if I understood correctly, is that the Jedi do not have an absolute, definite "no love and relationships or you're out" rule.

That was however the message from the movies. It's also reflected in other material and forum posts.

 

Basically, I read your post as to agree with me regarding attachments, at least for the children, but, you say, the Jedi Order does allow force-sensitive children and Jedi to form attachments. Am I correct in my interpretation?

 

The key point, if I understood correctly, is that the Jedi do not have an absolute, definite "no love and relationships or you're out" rule.

What does that mean?

 

My question stands, what is to forgive about bearing a child?