I don't feel like chasing healers around for 30 minutes again in arenas and waiting for stars aligned cc and dps chains to burst them. Edited February 20, 2012 by ComeAndSee

actually, arena is somewhat self-balancing, especially with larger groups (3v3, 5v5, etc.)

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I literally laughed out loud at this.

 

Yes, self balancing! That's why you see SO much diversity at the top in those brackets, because of all the self-balancing! I mean, you never see the same comps running the brackets due to all the balance! RMP, for instance, must've just been something I came up with one day on my own!

If they had arena it would only help showcase how laughably unbalanced classes are in this game.

 

Sadly, that's exactly what WOW arenas did. The Blizzard devs so gave up on it that 2v2 arenas didn't even count.

 

It's ok for you guys to lose every fight because you have no synergy, just not if the other guys gain something from it. Am I reading that correctly?

 

Seriously. I don't care either way if Arena's are implemented, but some of you people need to get over yourselves. You are not all star athletes that can't be defeated, there are and will be people who are better than you and they will ALWAYS beat you. These are the people that you will come up against in rated play - because you just aren't as good as you think you are.

 

This will inevitably end with QQ post about how whatever class you just lost to is overpowered. It's already happening now.

 

No, you're not reading correctly.

 

What I am saying is that I can play with my friends in Wz and do well because in a team of 8 the synergy between classes isnt so important. There is room for everyone, and what is important is coordination and teamwork. When you limit it to 2v2, synergy becomes MUCH more important (too much, IMO).

 

A quick example would be the merc/commando ACs. Pretty good in warzones, but I personally wouldn't want to team with one in a 2v2 because they lack interrupts and control. When 1 person in your team of 8 is lacking an interrupt, its no big deal really. But in a 2v2 I dont think it could work.

 

Thats why I think they need to focus on big scale PVP instead of small 2v2 and 3v3s

Thats why I think they need to focus on big scale PVP instead of small 2v2 and 3v3s

 

The only reason 2v2 and 3v3 has any merit as an idea is because maybe the stupid TOR engine could actually handle those numbers.

The only reason 2v2 and 3v3 has any merit as an idea is because maybe the stupid TOR engine could actually handle those numbers.

 

Haha, I actually have to agree with you on that. I'd gladly take lag free arenas over the laggy BS that we call warzones.

 

I'd prefer if they fixed their engine, however.

If I were developing an MMO, an Arena would be the building block for combat balance. It would be in the game from the get-go. However, I would not throw one in after the game had gone live. Too much at stake with balance issue by then, and it would only lead to pissed off player base. Edited February 20, 2012 by Vydor_HC

blizzard has stated arenas were the worst thing they did for pvp.

 

Actually, they didn't say that. What they said was the way they implemented arena was the worst thing they did with the game. It's created a lot of balance issues because of the vast difference in skill levels and the nature of modern MMO gamers that complain and clal anything that kills them overpowered.

 

Basically, they could of meant a number of different things such as they wish they would have made arena only characters so they could balance it easier and give everyone the same gear etc like Guild Wars did.

 

 

 

Arena was a competitive form of PVP because it wasn't able to be exploited (in theory) like a Warsong Gulch match or something. Rated Battlegrounds were a joke, they forced people to play them by offering more weekly points if you played them over arena.

 

 

Basically what arena boils down to is - The goal is to force the enemy defensive CDs before you use yours so when they have offensive cds up you have defensive cds to counter theirs so you eventually score a kill.

 

The common misconception of this is PVE gear in Arena that brings out ridiculous damage, and players that are in the 1500 bracket that don't know how to los, avoid damage, stay in los of their healer, interrupt properly, how to go offensive and when to go defensive etc that bring this "Arena is the death of wow!" nonsense.

 

The sad thing is most people that hate arena are ones that are bad at is, which is understandable. The good thing is, a lot more people would love to have Arena in the game as a form of entertainment because it's a fun way to compete with fellow players.

 

Arena is what brought MMOs to the e-sport scene, it may not be the best game for it but atleast it made it possible to be taken seriously.

I haven't read this entire thread so I apologize if I'm saying something that's already been said.

 

In my opinion, the PvP in this game is fairly well balanced. Obviously, there are some tweaks here and there that need to be looked into but for the most part, PvP isn't as bad as the majority of you are saying it is. Here are some of the issues I have noticed in PvP that should be looked into:

 

1. Resolve - I'm not even going to get into the amount of times people say "My Resolve bar is full and I'm still getting stunned!" I don't know if this means its bugged or if its even working correctly so I'm not going to get into this. What I WILL mention is the fact that Snares/Roots are not affected by Resolve. This absolutely KILLS melee classes (who are already at such a huge disadvantage in this game) since they have little to no ranged abilities. Being Rooted/Snared in this game as melee class without any built-in CC immunity (such as diminishing returns in WoW) is nearly the exact same as being stunned/CC'd.

 

Bioware needs to either add a diminishing returns system specifically for Roots/Snares or simply make them affect Resolve. This will force players who spam their CCs off CD to stop and think:

 

"Hmm should I blow my CC that fills 90% of his Resolve and not save any left for my Roots/Snares or should I use my CC that fills 40% of his bar and leave room for Snares/Roots in case he uses his CC breaker on my CC?"

 

Resolve that is filled by Snares/Roots can empty a bit faster than Resolve that is filled by CCs to balance it. Either way, something needs to be done to Roots/Snares.

 

2. Sorcs/Sages - They simply have far too much versatility. If Bioware release Rated Warzones without a class limit and leave Sorcs/Sages untouched, I wouldn't be surprised to see premades running 6+ Sorcs/Sages. Their ONLY disadvantage is the fact that they are squishy but they make this up by having an absorb bubble, CCs, roots, snares, Force Sprint, and healing. So they basically give up their survivability for every other advantage in the game. I wish other classes had this luxury.

 

3. Guard combined with a good Healer - This combo can be absolutely devastating when done correctly. If you think a healing Powertech/Vanguard is tough to kill alone, good luck trying to kill one with a competent tank having Guard on him. This combo can easily hold a door in Voidstar or a Turret on Alderaan until their reinforcement DPS arrive. I'm not sure if this is an issue with Guard being too strong or if Healing is a bit too good. It's even more difficult to say since our interrupts don't block out the Healer's entire school and instead only that spell. I'm not sure what should be done but this should definitely be looked into.

 

These are the three issues I've noticed so far. The rest of the PvP is well done with no class being too OP than others (other than the slight advantage Sorcs have).

If I were developing an MMO, an Arena would be the building block for combat balance. It would be in the game from the get-go. However, I would not throw one in after the game had gone live. Too much at stake with balance issue by then, and it would only lead to pissed off player base.

 

Have to agree.

 

I'm not a big fan of arenas in MMOs in general, I prefer larger scale combat that allows more variety in what different classes can do etc, but if I was to build an MMO and wanted to have a meaningful arena be a part of it, it would have to be something that is considered from the start, trying to add it in after launch is just going to be an exercise in pain.

i like the idea as long as the teams have a minimum of 4 players each.

It's sort of amusing.. and terrifying watching the WoW-babby generation at work. People who's first ever MMO was WoW and have gobbled up whatever Blizzard shat on the plate. And thus they can only think within of the confines of what WoW had in it.

Happened with WAR a few years back. During the beta everyone was doing the ORvR castle sieging. Then launch happened, WoW-babbies flocked in and the only thing that was played were Battlegrounds. Because that's the only thing those players had experienced and for them it had to be the only form of PvP to exist. Open world PvP? What is that word?..

 

Anyway, seeing the PvP forums reminds me of this phenomenon once again. The PvP needs some tweaking, so naturally what comes in mind for the WoW-babby? Arenas of course! They would solve everything. They were the sole form of high-end PvP in WoW, so it must be the only way, the correct way, the true way! How could it not be? Tom Chilton said it was.

 

So in any case, Rated Warzones are coming which should substitute nicely for those competitive needs. And when looking for the proverbial enema that the PvP in SWToR needs, the rancid bottle of piss that is the arena system is the last thing we should be using.

It's sort of amusing.. and terrifying watching the WoW-babby generation at work. People who's first ever MMO was WoW and have gobbled up whatever Blizzard shat on the plate. And thus they can only think within of the confines of what WoW had in it.

Happened with WAR a few years back. During the beta everyone was doing the ORvR castle sieging. Then launch happened, WoW-babbies flocked in and the only thing that was played were Battlegrounds. Because that's the only thing those players had experienced and for them it had to be the only form of PvP to exist. Open world PvP? What is that word?..

 

Anyway, seeing the PvP forums reminds me of this phenomenon once again. The PvP needs some tweaking, so naturally what comes in mind for the WoW-babby? Arenas of course! They would solve everything. They were the sole form of high-end PvP in WoW, so it must be the only way, the correct way, the true way! How could it not be? Tom Chilton said it was.

 

So in any case, Rated Warzones are coming which should substitute nicely for those competitive needs. And when looking for the proverbial enema that the PvP in SWToR needs, the rancid bottle of piss that is the arena system is the last thing we should be using.

 

what if you never played wow?

2v2 arena would be terrible.

Needs to be 4v4 with a better mmr algorithm.

what if you never played wow?

Obviously i was not talking about such players?.. Nor was i implying that everyone would be one.

No, it was merely an observation of sorts. This isn't the first thread about Arenas, and it sure won't be the last. My point somewhat being that people honking the arena horn seem to genuinely think that it's the best thing ever, is absolutely needed for any sort of "real" PvP to work and is the ultimate measure of anything and everything.

 

Which, as said, is both amusing and terrifying.

Needs to be 4v4 with a better mmr algorithm.

 

this.

It's sort of amusing.. and terrifying watching the WoW-babby generation at work. People who's first ever MMO was WoW and have gobbled up whatever Blizzard shat on the plate. And thus they can only think within of the confines of what WoW had in it.

Happened with WAR a few years back. During the beta everyone was doing the ORvR castle sieging. Then launch happened, WoW-babbies flocked in and the only thing that was played were Battlegrounds. Because that's the only thing those players had experienced and for them it had to be the only form of PvP to exist. Open world PvP? What is that word?..

 

Anyway, seeing the PvP forums reminds me of this phenomenon once again. The PvP needs some tweaking, so naturally what comes in mind for the WoW-babby? Arenas of course! They would solve everything. They were the sole form of high-end PvP in WoW, so it must be the only way, the correct way, the true way! How could it not be? Tom Chilton said it was.

 

So in any case, Rated Warzones are coming which should substitute nicely for those competitive needs. And when looking for the proverbial enema that the PvP in SWToR needs, the rancid bottle of piss that is the arena system is the last thing we should be using.

 

How about some of us just want OPTIONS. You know different ways of playing. I'd love for proper world PvP and conquest based PvP, but seeing as Bioware can't code to save their life we're stuck with a broken engine so that is out of the question.

 

So given the state of the game a small scale deathmatch pvp is feasible without several years of work on the engine.

 

I and from what I've read on this forum for people who want arenas don't want it to be the end all be all way to gear. Just another path with maybe some different cosmetics/titles compared to rated warzones.

 

Here's a good example of what it would be like.

 

What I find funny is when that video was posted on this forum people loved it. Yet when you mention the word arena people flip out.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Cragen

Obviously i was not talking about such players?.. Nor was i implying that everyone would be one.

No, it was merely an observation of sorts. This isn't the first thread about Arenas, and it sure won't be the last. My point somewhat being that people honking the arena horn seem to genuinely think that it's the best thing ever, is absolutely needed for any sort of "real" PvP to work and is the ultimate measure of anything and everything.

 

Which, as said, is both amusing and terrifying.

 

i wouldnt say it is needed any more than any other type of pvp, but variety is good.

Arena implementation in WoW was a mistake. Doing the same here would also be a mistake.

 

It was a mistake because it changed the way class abilities were designed and balanced and the result was a slow decline to homogenization that is now the biggest complaint about WoW classes.

 

Once you open up the can of worms that is Arena style play, you can't go back. It is in the best interest of any new MMO to stay as far away from Arena play as possible.

 

If Arena play gets introduced to SWTOR, the forums will be ablaze with posts about how "X" class is OP or "Y" class is too weak. You'll see endless whining about CC and stuns and how various mechanics shouldn't be allowed in PvP because they unbalance the fights.

 

You'll see post after post about how PvP needs to be balanced around 1v1 combat and after enough time you'll start to see the forums flooded with PvE players complaining that the changes made in the interest of Arena PvP are having too great of an effect on End Game PvE.

 

Arena isn't needed. Warzones and open PvP areas coupled with World PvP objectives where the teamwork is more important than team composition are what PvP is all about.

 

If you want to see if you are better than someone else, duel them.

 

 

Forums are already ablaze which class is to weak or which class is OP. So your point there was worthless.

 

World PvP or better yet any type of PvP is pointless unless there is some type of reward. Which why do you think people go to Ilum do their daily and split. They dont care about world pvp. They want purples. As Far as balance goes, it will never happen in any game that has PvE and PvP in it. They do something to PvP, PVE'rs will grip how it now affects them and vice versa. They need to seperate PvP from PvE. PVP servers are pure PVP servers. Non of this PvE crap. And same for PvE. Update the Pure PvP servers and PvE Servers with seperate updates when it affects classes. Not saying there cant be PvE to do on a PvP server, but you are fully aware that PvE will wont be focused on. So if you want to do both, then make an alt on a PvE server and vice versa.

 

So in all reality, Arenas wont do anything else to this game then there already is. People will QQ the same. I mean people are QQ about Arena's being put in place. *** you people want? More Warzones? You will get tired of that after 2 months and start crying about wanting more. Its a never ending cycle. My advice is quit playing MMO's cause you will never be happy. And if you say you would, then why are you not in a game you previously played that was so awesome. Its because you always want more more more. Wish these games would just take down forums all together. Must be a headache to listen to people whine 24/7.

World PvP or better yet any type of PvP is pointless unless there is some type of reward.

 

I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

 

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.

I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

 

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.

 

The problem is world pvp do not work on a base level in this game.

 

The engine is totally broken and they've built the game around trying to do what they can keep it working.

 

I mean why do you think that Republic and Imperials are pretty much separated in every zone, and zones can only being able to handle 48 players. Given that this is Star Wars you'd expect war, but instead you have everyone hidden away at their respective fleet.

 

Ilum which suppose to be this great pvp area is a total lagfest the moment you have more then 30 people fighting at once.

 

I absolutely love world PvP, but it was dead on arrival in this game and the amount of work required to get half decent world pvp is never going to happen.

I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

 

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.

 

Some do as well as I. But some dont count when the majority dont care. I dont know about your server but I know for sure in the two servers I am in that as soon as their daily is done, they leave the ops group. Or if they are not going to win the warzone because they are losing, they leave the warzone. They get on, get their daily done, leave. Then call themselves good because they have the same gear everybody else has for doing the exact same thing. I am by far not the best at PvP, but I learn, ask questions in forums and try to improve. But I have never left a warzone, unless the game decided to kick me out to desktop (many occasions).

 

So no matter what game it is, Its all about gear. Not because they enjoy it. PvE they do the same. They get the rakata gear and they are done raiding. Problem here with ToR is they admitted they didnt think this game was going to have that many hardcore PvP'ers. And they wish they would have focused more on it. So now we gotta rely on the patches to come.

The problem is world pvp do not work on a base level in this game.

 

The engine is totally broken and they've built the game around trying to do what they can keep it working.

 

I mean why do you think that Republic and Imperials are pretty much separated in every zone, and zones can only being able to handle 48 players. Given that this is Star Wars you'd expect war, but instead you have everyone hidden away at their respective fleet.

 

Ilum which suppose to be this great pvp area is a total lagfest the moment you have more then 30 people fighting at once.

 

I absolutely love world PvP, but it was dead on arrival in this game and the amount of work required to get half decent world pvp is never going to happen.

 

im not too worried about it seeing as the game is so young, it is suffice for the now, my guild and I dont seem to have the same problem you do.

 

but i wouldnt call you a liar.

Here's a good example of what it would be like.

 

What I find funny is when that video was posted on this forum people loved it. Yet when you mention the word arena people flip out.

You have to understand, many people still have that bitter taste of ***** in their mouths from the WoW arena system where it was the only viable means of PvP gear progression. And thus the word "Arena" comes with some resentment. Small scale group-PvP just for it's own sake, or for maybe some small cosmetic rewards, would be alright. But the sad truth is that people would not be content with just that. And i'd much rather the Devs focus on something else to bring in that variety. Why copy an old, not that good of a system? And besides, an 8v8 premade rated Huttball is pretty darn close to an arena. How about the Devs bring new similar maps in for the rated warzones than succumb to the Arena system.