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Loot Rules/Etiquette


Residentx_NA

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I've played this game since day one but I play it a few time a month 1 or 2 hours a week.

Once a month I play 4-5 hours to make up the deficit so I can keep my characters moving forward. I have 2 sith inquisitors and 2 jedi consulars.

 

I was playing this week and did a flashpoint. I think it was the esseles. I rarely get to team but this time I posted for invites. This flashpoint lasted about 2 hours due to lag and other things.

 

During the game, some of the players complained about me taking all the loot. I didn't say anything at first but then they kept on ranting and I finally replied. I swear when I played this game in the beginning the loot was personal. That means that if I killed it NO ONE could get my loot. Was it this way or was I just dreaming?

 

Next, this I know for sure but when you get group loot you get to roll or something for it. You can select "Need" or "Greed." How does this affect the outcome? I hate to make enemies in this game but this flashpoint was horrible and I couldn't wait for it end so I could go back to the real world.

 

I love this game and I'm selling it hard to my friends but I don't want to create enemies figting over loot all the time. If we fight over loot everyone will complain and be unhappy during the game.

 

I have so little time to play this game. What is the proper attitude in this situation? I mean I know sure as hell they be telling me to screw off if they happened to be catching all the breaks but I didn't say that during the game. The selfishness of people never amazes me.

Edited by Residentx_NA
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The rule of thumb is to need only on upgrades for yourself and greed otherwise. Honestly if they thought you were looting everything, they should explain things first. People forget sometimes that people may be new and such. Just remember that for next time, need if it's an upgrade for you, and greed otherwise. Also group rolls on green/blune and purples. Everything else you loot is trash and goes to whoever gets to loot it. They really shouldn't get mad over trash and all credits are divided amoung the group.
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For the millionth time

 

NEED = Only use it if you really need it. That is, your character can use it and it is better than what you are wearing.

 

GREED = You want it, but only if nobody else needs it (greed rolls will be rolled if there are no need rolls). Choose this if you want to sell it for example.

 

PASS = dont want it at all in any case

 

 

Anything that does not directly fit into these categories, you need to talk to your group with to see when it is ok to need.

 

If you click need on everything when the rest of the group is not ok with it, you may make enemies and get kicked out of groups and put to ignore so you dont ever get invited again.

Edited by Eternalnight
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Need = I can use that item as an upgrade to what I am wearing right now

 

Greed = I'll take it, but I may not need it, or my Companion can use it as an upgrade

 

Pass = I don't want it

 

Another thing is if you need it for a companion upgrade you ASK the other people if you can Need for your Companion

 

Pretty basic, but there posters here who claim they will just Need it for their Companion as they would for themselves.

 

Just remember that Everyone gets a Companion that can use most any item that drops as loot in the game. How would you like to roll with someone like that? I won't.

 

Now if you were rolling Greed and won all the drops, that's just they way it happens sometimes. It's not cheating, Greed rolls are chance like dice (RNG) and you were just on a lucky streak.

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When you are soloing, any loot that drops off of the mobs you kill is exclusively yours. When you are in a group, any loot that drops off of the mobs that are killed is available to everyone in the group.

 

Kind of one of those "share the work, share the spoils" things.

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These comments are interesting. Do other players really stop and talk during the game about loot? I find the chat tool clumsy. Using it interferes with my ability to play.

 

I'll read these comments again tomorrow. I'm sorry this is for the millionith time but the game is so poorly documented, these kinds of questions will come up regularly I'm sure. I mean I've played two flashpoints since I joined the game. This first was on the sith side and this one was on the jedi side. My progress in the game is slow I have no problems admitting that....but I won't keep doing flashpoints if all they are rantfests.

 

Maybe I better just do the solo stuff and wait for my friends to come to the game. Also, I was mostly doing greedy during the game so I'm pleased about that but I still don't know why the complaints. Maybe I just played with some really young players who play all day.

One of the players asked if I lived in China. They were so impatient.

 

Honestly, if I had one complain about this game is I really wish they would find a way to make the environment less heavy so they load quicker. I play now during mornings EST and I wait 2 mins for the "twinkle" so I can move my player when I'm playing during the game. This is just annoying and kills me when I'm doing the flashpoints.

Edited by Residentx_NA
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During the game, some of the players complained about me taking all the loot.

 

Maybe they had a good reason to complain, if you need rolled everything, even items you cant use. Most people have a problem with that.

 

The selfishness of people never amazes me.

But it does amaze me.

 

Why would you take something you cant even use at all, if grouped with someone else who could have used it?

 

Don't press need on items you dont need

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Nothing wrong with the chat system in game -- hit enter, type, hit enter; what more do you want? It even defaults to group when you join one, that's about as easy as it gets.

 

Gray and white items are only for you. If you see the character has something like credits or vendor trash, you're the only one seeing it so feel free to grab it. By default, anything green or higher will pop up a need/green window. Use the need/green guidelines others have set forth. If you were just looting whites/grays, then you were with lousy people if they complained about it. If you were winning every greed roll, well that's just luck.

 

What twinkle are you talking about? Do you have poor performance and framerates? That could be causing a lot of your issues.

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Maybe they had a good reason to complain, if you need rolled everything, even items you cant use. Most people have a problem with that.

 

 

But it does amaze me.

 

Why would you take something you cant even use at all, if grouped with someone else who could have used it?

 

Don't press need on items you dont need

 

I cannot possibly take "everything", ok?

Edited by Residentx_NA
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When I'm playing this game during the flashpoints, I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need. I need xp not crap!! If I stop and take too long someone else will take it...this is just how it is...I grab it and sort it out at the end of the flashpoint. This interrupts the game play...the reason I'm here. I really wish they would just autoloot like COH and be done with this.... Edited by Residentx_NA
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Here's what I got out of this. You afk every loading screen. Roll need just in case. You don't have equipment stat comparison enabled on your interface options. And you're too apathetic to explain your point of view to players you grouped with in chat. I can empathize with not having much time on this game (3 kids and a full time job). I however don't commit to things I can't comfortably get to the end of without feeling rushed and making uninformed decisions.

 

Yes, this kind of shoot first ask questions later philosophy for loot in groups will get you trolled. Drop kicked from guilds. Named and shamed in general chat on your server. And ultimately find yourself on the ignore list of every viable pick-up group that might ordinarily give you a chance.

 

When I'm playing this game during the flashpoints, I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need. I grab it and sort it out at the end of the flashpoint. This interrupts the game play...the reason I'm here.

 

This is what people call a ninja. Its about 2 steps down on the mmo food chain from a troll. Which, I assume is the reason you're crying on the forums. Ninja's get trolled. It's the one constant in every multi-player game with loot you'll always see. The only way to bypass the inherent guilt of being a ninja is to become a ninja troll. Which unfortunately is the bottom of the mmo food chain.

Edited by dubiousdepth
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When I'm playing this game during the flashpoints, I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need. I need xp not crap!! If I stop and take too long someone else will take it...this is just how it is...I grab it and sort it out at the end of the flashpoint. This interrupts the game play...the reason I'm here. I really wish they would just autoloot like COH and be done with this....

 

That is just stupid.

 

Credits will be divided evenly by everyone in the group, so it really makes no difference who loots and when.

 

Gear will be always open up a need or greed roll window for everyone

It really does not take more than a fraction of a second to see the tooltip and know if you need it or not.

And there is no hurry in pressing need or greed the loot roll timer is pretty long and it will not make any difference if you're first or last to press need or greed.

 

People like you who press need on everything (even items that are useless to you thus often preventing others who could have used it from getting it) are the worst thing in MMO games.

 

I can't even say what I really think about people who press need on items they aren't going to use, as the forum rules here would not allow such language.

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I don't stop and look at my inventory to see what I need and don't need.

 

There is no reason for this. When an item pops up for roll, you just hover over it and quickly compare it to what you have equipped. It really shouldn't take that long, though I understand that not everyone reads at the same speed.

 

These comments are interesting. Do other players really stop and talk during the game about loot? I find the chat tool clumsy. Using it interferes with my ability to play.

 

Group loot rules are something that are supposed to be discussed before you start, not something you stop and do during the content unless something needs to be reiterated for some reason. But yes, sometimes you do stop and discuss things if/when it's needed (like when the leader gives instructions for which mobs to kill/CC in what order); and it's this way in every MMO.

 

I know from personal experience in this game that some folks just group up to get it over with (or get what they want and you be damned) and they have no desire to ever communicate with those in their group, and I find that wrong but that's the way it is sometimes. If no one communicates the rules with you ahead of time, just assume it's the generally accepted rule of roll if you need it for yourself and greed if you don't.

 

One other thing to think about is you all have to heal up after a fight so that's the time everyone should be comparing loot.

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Generally speaking for armor and weapons

 

Need before greed means just that.

 

Need - This item is an upgrade for my MAIN SPEC comparing to what i currently am using.

 

Greed for everything else.

 

 

For vanity things (not sure how many are in the game) everyone would select need.

 

If you would like an item very much for whatever reason, but it's not an upgrade, generally you'd want to consult with the group before selecting need. Just aks them anf 9 times out of 10 unless someone else needs it too they'll agree to let you have it.

 

 

For master looter it's obviously up the the discretion of the loot master, but usually loot masters will operate under 1 of 3 main loot streams.

 

1. Need Before greed. Essentially the same as above. But this ensures that anyone rolling actually does "need" the item. If the person rolling doesnt actually need it, the master looter can veto it and direct the loot accordingly, this is the most common master loot in low-mid level skill game play

 

2. For high end game play. like nightmare guild runs and such, Master loot will often be handled by loot council. Usually high ranking guild members will decide where the item will ebenefit the group as a whole the most. They use several factors such as Attendance, Performance, and largest upgrade as the main factors.

 

3. Round Robin. In this scenario lets say there is a group of 4 people and 1 person wins an item. The master looter would not loot anythng else to that person until the other 3 have won something. this is a "share the wealth" system that ensures that one person doesnt just get lucky and walk out with all the upgrades leaving the other empty handed and disastisfied.

 

 

All these loot systems have their benefits, flaws, and controversies. There is no perfect loot system. so its up to you to decide what you consider the best.

 

Just keep in mind that there is a unwritten law of using greed on items that aren't an upgrade to you main spec.

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I appreciate all of your comments.

 

Despite what many of you feel, I posted on the boards to get "clarity" about a situation because I don't play enough to know firsthand. Like I said in the very beginning, I've done 2 flashpoints since the game launch. My game was a pickup not a guild this week.

 

Finally, this game is great but you must have a lot of time to play. The Esseles took almost 2 hours to play and this was just too much time for weekend warrior like myself

(I love high quality content but when I started this I didn't realize this flashpoint was so long). That created pressure to get to the end and the decisions about looting.

 

About my computer I have an HP8760w with a 4GB Quadro video card and a Verizon FTTH line(home) with the max bandwidth of 150MBPS. I'm learning though that I can't play this game on the road because it requires so much bandwidth and that's where the "twinkles" come in. Lack of bandwidth affects this game greatly. I encourage the devs to play the game in low bandwith situations to see what users experience.

 

Finally, the comments by chairforceone was very informative. I probably will not join a guild now because I can't imagine what might be programmed "behind the scenes" by the Guild masters. Where do I find out more about this?

 

I will try to put some rough pickup looting rules together in the future to head this problem off in the future but I doubt many will follow it during the actual play. But I'll try it...

Edited by Residentx_NA
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do whatever you want to.

 

there are buttons...click one of 'em and move one....who cares?

 

loot isnt really a big deal in this game anyway.....so easy to get in many many ways.

 

not a big issue.

 

I wish it was that simple...

 

I hope to be a member people want to play with. I posted to get insight into the "unspoken" rules of the game. I view the loot similar to you but many don't view it that way. I will apply some of the comments I've rec'ved above from everyone. It takes away from the game when people are overly focused on loot but I have to find a way to deal with this because I'm not part of guild and I play most PUG(Pickup Groups).

Edited by Residentx_NA
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there is no 'etiquette'.

it's just the rules imposed upon by someone who is bent about something someone else did.

 

if you roll need the other guys wont yell 'etiquette violation !!" if he wins will he?...only if he loses the roll will the drama start.

 

.

Edited by ArtMonster
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Of course there's etiquette. The most accepted rule is

 

Need = for thing you (and only you, not your companions) can use in a better version

Greed = for companions or money

Pass = for being generous or just filled up.

 

Personally I will drop or drop out of groups where people deliberately and persistantly violate these rules against better knowledge (IE having had them explained)

 

Edit: Haven't actually met such a person yet, fortunately :)

Edited by Veniras
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good for you...your a paladin.

 

but swtor gives you the choice to click two buttons..... fair and square.

 

there is NO right or wrong...only what 'others' percieve as you being a cheat for doing what the game does fairly.

(who is anyone to say why or why not you need an item?, it aint thier call, and they dont know you or your character or your intentions.... but they sure do know if they lost that roll....lol)

 

this so called 'etiquette' is your own perception and moral dilemma...not the games, not any other player...... yours.

 

the game lets you do what you want.... and it's not wrong...the rolls are completely fair.

 

......unless someone doesnt win that fair roll.... and decides it's an attack on him personally and looters are ruining his life forever.

 

and start another thread about it.

 

.

Edited by ArtMonster
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I wish it was that simple...

 

I hope to be a member people want to play with.

That is good, but...

 

 

It takes away from the game when people are overly focused on loot but I have to find a way to deal with this

Now, let's make one thing clear. I'm not overly focused on loot.

 

I am overly focused on not tolerating people who think it's ok to act like a complete jerk towards other people who they are in group with, just because the game "technically allows it".

 

If you press need on something that you're obviously not going to even use, even when someone else (not necessarily me) who could have used it needs it, then you're acting like a jerk.

 

It's not the loosing of the looted item that bothers me. It's the malicious attitude of the of the player who makes the choice to click need that bothers me.

 

When you're doing group content in an MMO, it is not "just a game", but it is a game in which you're interacting with other players who are real living people.

You can't just "do whatever you want" and still expect those other people to want to have you in their group, just like in real life you can't do just anything and expect other people to want to work together with you, no matter what you do.

 

Likely you would not be able to ever complete the group content without the help of other people, so how do you thank them? By taking other people into consideration when making your choices or by ninja looting?

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Technically, we "could" need everything. Everything has some value in this game, right?

 

If I can't use it I can trade it and this is where the logic of etiquette fails. If I don't need it I can trade it...which can further my agenda...so should I grab as much as I can and have people complain or let others have everything and I suffer in silence. Only a group of friendlies will be more considerate. In PUGs, you can't expect this.

 

Thanks for your comments, KurganNazzir

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You're going to find that there's two main camps.

 

1. Need everything. Even if you can't use it, your alts, companions, or friends can. Or you can sell it for credits.

 

2. Need only things that you can use, that are better than what you have right now.

 

Neither is inherently right or wrong, BUT these two views are pretty incompatible.

 

SO use chat, BEFORE you group up and agree on how you want to do loot division.

 

Need-everything guys are going to get screeched at by the other folks, and the other folks may drop out rather than play with you.

 

Need-for-use guys are going to get screwed out of loot by the other folks, and are going to be furious.

 

Me personally, I'm a need-for-use person and I will not play with need-everything people. I would rather solo. I'd rather turn off the game and go for a walk. I'll also leave a flashpoint in a New York minute if we agree on need-for-use and a player needs everything. That's not worth my limited play time. Nothing anyone can say is going to change my mind, so don't bother trying. However, that's my opinion and the only person it's right for is me.

 

You do things your way, I'm not trying to change your mind. You gotta make the decisions that are best for you and no one else can do that. The only thing I beg of you is to pretty please be polite and just let people know ahead of time that you're a need-everything person.

 

Also, this is a good time to consider whenever you're setting up group play, that you should work loot etiquette out ahead of time. Don't rely on other people to tell you they're need-everything or need-for-use, ask them and communicate appropriately.

 

Paige

Edited by Scorpienne
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Technically, we "could" need everything. Everything has some value in this game, right?

 

I already acknowledged that "technically you can need everything. It really boils down to the question of what you said earlier

 

I hope to be a member people want to play with.

Which based on your last comment you obviously don't want to be.

 

and

 

If I can't use it I can trade it

 

The word "trade" implies player to player trading, which you can't do with a FP boss loot that is bind on pickup.

Of course you can always sell it to a npc vendor.

 

and this is where the logic of etiquette fails. If I don't need it I can trade it...which can further my agenda...so should I grab as much as I can and have people complain or let others have everything and I suffer in silence.

 

Oh, so many people who think it's ok to act like a complete jerk toward other people and press need on everything. Not pressing need is not the same thing as "letting others have everything", (unless the others are also pressing need on everything in which case you should too).

 

But really, just a little earlier you said

It takes away from the game when people are overly focused on loot

But now you are the one who is so overly focussed on loot that you can't let others have what they "need", but feel it necessary to click need on things you don't really need.

 

It's not that hard to use it right.

Need is for when you need it.

Greed is for other things like selling it (which is why there is a money symbol on the greed button)

 

Only a group of friendlies will be more considerate. In PUGs, you can't expect this.

 

Actually I have found out that you can expect this in PUGs. There are always few jerks who feel entitled to do whatever they want, but many people are considerate towards others.

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