I like being able to que up for an activity while I quest for another activity. When everyone is new and a game is fresh it is easy to get lots of people to team up for content be it guild mates or pugs. The problem starts to come in when people have started to cap out and focus on raids n such. The lower level content becomes more abandoned due to needing a team to do most of it. Mind you companions make this easier so that 2 people can do a 4 person instance but this is about being multiplayer vs single player. Putting together a team of friends will always be preferred for me but when no ones online and I'm still awake at 3:48am and wanting to get something done.. nothing beats hitting "join" on the team finder and just go about my business till prompted that enough other people my level also want to do it of the appropriate classes and pulls us in. Be it pvp or pve. I've played mmos since Anarchy-Online and newer games that don't have a great dungeon finder like feature all suffer from that same fate.. empty dungeons that get skipped in favor of "fastest/min-max" route to end game.

 

PS I utterly hate and refuse to ever spam a global channel for a team.

I concur with this opinion. I think the low level heroic quests are especially frustrating post-initial release. I think they're at least a little frustrating even at release. The need to group up for a leveling quest means that I have to stop playing and wait. That's not fun for me.

i am creating a rather large compendium of improvement ideas for the game in a forum thread tomorrow, and for that i would like some input on how a dungeonfinder tool could be made in the best possible way.

if you could help me out with input i would be rather thankfull.

For my own suggestion, go to page 7 of this thread.

There may not be a "best" way to have a dungeon finder system. There are arguments on both sides for and against it.

Reading through many of the postings on this thread, it appears that there are more people either against it or want it to be server only. Those commenting against it also mention of how it has dramatically changed how the game is viewed and played, how it has changed the community, and it does. It really does.

If you are posting a thread of issues, I think there are plenty on the forums unless you are adding some that have not been on these forums. I do wonder though if moderators are even lurking around here, because they are not locking duplicate threads like they did before the forum wipe.

Please oh please do NOT make it cross-server.

There is really just one thing stopping ninjas and other annoying people - not being invited to the parties anymore. Dont poop where you eat. Etc.

With a cross-server system, everyone basically becomes anonymous, and we all know what that does to people[1].

A LFG tool is OK, but for the love of pasta keep it same-server.

[1] See Gabe's greater internet f-wad theory (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/).

I have to agree with those saying "no" to a dungeon finder if its cross-server.

Back when I played Everquest, if you ninja looted something, you were kicked from your guild and no others would take you in. No name changes. No server changes. Act like a punk and you got screwed. The community was better on the whole.

I'd rather not see the community here take the path that WoW did.

Group up. Make friends. Make a friends list. Join a guild. Play together.

Its part of being on an MMO.

Reading through many of the postings on this thread, it appears that there are more people either against it or want it to be server only.

i feel like it might be redundant to repeat myself, but the majority of players arent the guys posting on the forums.

If you are posting a thread of issues, I think there are plenty on the forums.

its not a thread of issues, it is surposed to be a large compendium of suggested improvements, and ways to implement them, ranging from tweaks to the interface, and allowing searches on name before item type on the GTM, to dungeonfinder tools (could just be a simple gui allowing you to list your name, check off boxes with what you want to do, and add a short description, possibly cross realm that way)

but thank you for your input none the less, it is appriciated.

You're right in that a majority of players are not posting on the forums, and as I stated in the part you quoted me on, I am referencing those posting in this thread.

The people who want their voices heard come here and speak their minds and give their opinions, where it is more likely to get the attention of the developers than those playing the game and staying silent.

i will say that i am against the WoW LFG system as it makes people less "human" (not sure how many times the most you could get out of a group was hi and MAYBE BYE at the end though not very often>

MMOs is massive multiplayer online - and really if i wanted someone that behaved like a bot i could play KotOR2 and save the monthly and as for the rude and inconsiderate people who abuse the other players through LFG i am more than happy to do without

IF they did implement I hope at most it would be server wide as then there can at least be some accounting when people behave badly.

someone said somewhere in one of the thread that some people were afraid "technology would destroy us" but it is not the technology but how it is abused that DOES dehumanizes us due to lack of accountability since across many servers you will possibly never meet the others again

I love to see a wow and rift like lfg system! IMO it was the best innovation to ever happen to the mmo genre!

Those that do not want to use it dont have to chat channels would still be there as would friends list. A wow like lfg system takes NOTHING away from those who do not want to use it to form groups.

I love to see a wow and rift like lfg system! IMO it was the best innovation to ever happen to the mmo genre!

Those that do not want to use it dont have to chat channels would still be there as would friends list. A wow like lfg system takes NOTHING away from those who do not want to use it to form groups.

You dont understand how such a system does change the community of an MMO. Did you ever play vanilla wow? Did you ever experience how fun it was to know people on your server? How fun it was to be "honored" by people asking for the best tank´s or healers?

All this was gone with the LFG tool, first they took it away with the pvp LFG and then with the dungeon LFG. An MMO is about a community and not about "rushing" through multiple dungeons in a short amount of time.

If you want such a game, go play wow please. SWTOR hopefully does never have the worst implementation in MMO history ever.

Right now I did talk to more people in this game than in the last 3 years of wow, this pretty much shows how flawed a LFG tool is.

You dont understand how such a system does change the community of an MMO. Did you ever play vanilla wow? Did you ever experience how fun it was to know people on your server? How fun it was to be "honored" by people asking for the best tank´s or healers?

 

All this was gone with the LFG tool, first they took it away with the pvp LFG and then with the dungeon LFG. An MMO is about a community and not about "rushing" through multiple dungeons in a short amount of time.

 

 

If you want such a game, go play wow please. SWTOR hopefully does never have the worst implementation in MMO history ever.

 

 

Right now I did talk to more people in this game than in the last 3 years of wow, this pretty much shows how flawed a LFG tool is.

I do play wow, I also play Rift and i now play swtor...

I stand by what i said a lfg system takes no community tools away from the game. Those wishing to socialize still can form groups via chat channels, guilds and friends list.

So what i see you saying here is that in wow the lfd system is so popular that you can no longer form group groups via the old way. That in of itself speaks volumes about the success of wow's lfd system!

The communities going down hill has nothing to do with any lfg system.

It is 100% due to the mass influx of people to the genre. In stead of a thousands of players we have millions. When these games player base were limited to oh say 300k players the bad apples were few and far between simply due to a a gated type of requirement.

Computers were not as popular and were costly and a little scarey to use by the normal people.

Enter todays market most house holds have at least one system and many have who networks. There is no longer a stigma attached to using one (yes you wont be called geek or a nerd these days). A basic system is cheap!

Simple fact is when you put millions of people together your going to get bad apples and LOTS of them compared to the half million these games used to pull in.

Todays mmo market is no longer your safe gated community its more like living in a metroplex. Its comparable to my real life. I live in a remote area with just 20 or so people with in 5 miles of me. I can leave my door open at night and the keys in my car and have zero worries. My inlaws live in the dfw area. Its scary to walk outside with out a gun. Nothing is going to change how that metroplex is and nothing is going to change how the mmo market place is in todays age.

You will quickly find that this community is going to match wow's even with out a lfd system.

Black list and bad reps cant work when a server has a player base of thousands on ONE server. There is no humanly possible way for anyone to know everyone on a modern server.

this is stupid. all you casual gamers who want everything easy are already *********** this game up. if you want WoW go back to WoW. dont bring that **** over here.

This This and This!!!!!!!

The communities going down hill has nothing to do with any lfg system.

It is 100% due to the mass influx of people to the genre. In stead of a thousands of players we have millions. When these games player base were limited to oh say 300k players the bad apples were few and far between simply due to a a gated type of requirement.

but that's the thing, you don't see millions on your server. and even then you only see your own faction.

so, on a per-server-basis, the number of bad apples is still the same.

I have to agree with those saying "no" to a dungeon finder if its cross-server.

 

Back when I played Everquest, if you ninja looted something, you were kicked from your guild and no others would take you in. No name changes. No server changes. Act like a punk and you got screwed. The community was better on the whole.

 

I'd rather not see the community here take the path that WoW did.

 

Group up. Make friends. Make a friends list. Join a guild. Play together.

 

Its part of being on an MMO.

Quoted For Truth.

And adding my vote against an automated LFG tool.

I dont mind looking for people on my server for such groups; getting to know people, connecting, adding them to my friends list, chatting with them - all those things feel important to me.

I agree - implementing a LFG tool, especially early on if at all, is a mistake.

I would support an LFG tool as long as it is server only. My experience was that a cross-server dungeon finder made people care less since there wasn't a consequence if someone wasn't nice in a party. When people played only with people on the same server the word 'reputation' had a meaning. With a cross-server LFG tool it's just "who cares if I leave/ninja I'll never gonna meet those people again anyway".

I totally agree with you. Please no cross-server queuing.

You all know that ALL servers don't necessarily have to be CROSS server servers right? Technically they "COULD" have say "Seven" servers that lack a dungeonfinder/Cross server capabilities. They'd be called Community servers for the community benefits explained earlier in this thread that come from lack of Cross server play. Or you know, explained by the developers as they made this game?

All the while the other 20-30 servers could all be intertwined into the cross server network. Granting reasonably fast que times for them. EVEN with the 7 servers missing from its hive, Besides after all, those players technically never woulda used the feature anyways according to some of you. Right?

If they do this, we can all have our cake, AND eat it too. And bloody soon too because many folks are getting tired of going without fast quick crossrealm Flashpoints and pvp matches. Or having to advertise in General chat for 2 minutes to 20 minutes. You don't want to lose these players, as they argue(and rightfully so perhaps) that this is a feature that should have shipped with the game. Shouldn't it have?

That, and honestly, It goes without saying that many folks will RIGHTFULLY feel betrayed and ruined if they lose the social networking game they bought this week.(The non Cross server one)

And to get the point home. What a wonderfully made game this has shown itself to be. Especially Delivered in "BOTH" the desired formats above.

Think on what Ive said here over. And also realize, I'd bet you 1'000'000 million SWTOR credits they're probably already onto an idea like this. Its both too obvious and too fine a fix.

If this thread is any indication, You'd potentially be making COUNTLESS players into belligerent stampeding elephants by either executing a "COMPLETE" cross server switch to ALL the servers on this game, or by taking inaction and NOT doing it at all.

Were a community cut in half in this belief, Lets accept that fact. This thread is proof of it. And by isolating 7-10 servers from the 30-40 cross server horde, that is the key. This number can be adjusted depending on server fullness and popularity.

And don't say "Then just don't use the feature then". Because as ANYONE who's played a game with this feature knows, Once its in it pretty much becomes nigh impossible to set up server side groups outside your guild(or even in it a lot of the time). And by the way, Ive always had a hard time getting into a good guild without meeting the members in an instance. Am I alone in that?

How do you pick what few servers are separated from the rest. If you mark or announce that there is a clump of servers that don't queue with everyone, there will be even more people upset.

Many will be upset that they don't get to queue with everyone, and many will be upset that to do any flashpoint they have to cross queue. Then people will be mad that it wasn't announced when the game started and they would have to re-roll on a different server if they wanted to be part of a cross queuing server or not.

It is no secret from this thread that I am opposed to a cross server dungeon finder, but based on your suggestion, I think about what if my server was picked as one that would have that cross server dungeon finder. I wouldn't like it.

I support any type of queue system that eliminates the need for me to copy and paste, "Hi want to run X flashpoint? need Y role," and spam it to players of like-level or in general chat.

I support any type of queue system that allows me to queue from a remote location and not have to return to the fleet or use the /who function to find players in other locations.

I support any type of queue system that allows me to enter a Flashpoint from a remote location and then return to that location when I am finished.

I love to see a wow and rift like lfg system! IMO it was the best innovation to ever happen to the mmo genre!

Those that do not want to use it dont have to chat channels would still be there as would friends list. A wow like lfg system takes NOTHING away from those who do not want to use it to form groups.

Well put... I fail to understand how spamming is better than using an intelligent match-making system that is faster and less tedious.

I fail to understand how some people think that spamming LFG and then getting a group is like some sort of magical situation where people become friends and form a community... that doesn't happen for me, maybe I just don't get it.

So is spamming LFG really superior than *click to queue and wait for magic to happen?* No imo.

Does the LFG tool increase the number of ninjas? No imo.

Does the LFG tool take away from guilds? No imo.

Does the LFG tool make finding a group easier and less tedious? Yes imo.

[*] In TBC finding a group for MgT and actually completing it was a feat for most people, not to mention getting some of the neat loot from there.

Maybe that's because there was no Dungeon Finder tool?

The Dungeon Finder tool and now the Raid Finder tool, are giving more players access to that content than ever before. I welcome it in SWTOR.

I would just like to counter a couple of arguments on this thread.

Argument 1:

"The LFG kills the server community."

This argument seems to indicate that the LFG tool (cross-server) actually detracts from social interaction. However, when some actual thought is applied, the LFG tool opens up more social interaction by allowing a player to interact with other players who were previously inaccessible to them. How could the ability to talk to more people detract from being social?

Argument 2:

"The LFG tool increases the number of cases of trolling and/or ninja looting."

The LFG tool does not guarantee human perfection. Other measures such as vote-kicking, proper loot rules/rolling options, and self-moderation are required to help ensure a good play experience. As it is right now, the loot rules/rolling options are not viable for a LFG tool. This will likely change over time in order to accommodate the LFG tool feature.

I approve of LFG tool.

I would just like to counter a couple of arguments on this thread.

 

Argument 1:

 

"The LFG kills the server community."

 

This argument seems to indicate that the LFG tool (cross-server) actually detracts from social interaction. However, when some actual thought is applied, the LFG tool opens up more social interaction by allowing a player to interact with other players who were previously inaccessible to them. How could the ability to talk to more people detract from being social?

 

Argument 2:

 

"The LFG tool increases the number of cases of trolling and/or ninja looting."

 

The LFG tool does not guarantee human perfection. Other measures such as vote-kicking, proper loot rules/rolling options, and self-moderation are required to help ensure a good play experience. As it is right now, the loot rules/rolling options are not viable for a LFG tool. This will likely change over time in order to accommodate the LFG tool feature.

 

I approve of LFG tool.

4 replies in a row all stating you are for a dungeon finder... Can you use the edit button next time?

I quoted this one for the arguments you pointed.

Argument 1:

In Cross Dungeon groupings, people are not social. While what you say works and sounds good on paper, it does not work in practice. People queue up for a dungeon, they go in and start pulling. If you get into a group where a player even says "Hi", you got a socializing group. Most players, not all, but most that I have been in, when they die even once, they just leave instead of working things out like a team. Can this happen without a cross dungeon tool? Absolutely, but it happens a lot less.

Argument 2:

Ninja'ing does happen more. People will just hit need if they can wear an item. Yes, you can kick them, but that is after the damage is done, and then you will never see them again. You could go to their server and say something, but then you only look like a fool. There are no consequences for players actions. If a player ninja's items on their own server, their name gets around as someone to not group up with. With the surnames being account bound, you can now even know who they are if their surname is shown. Thus, there are consequences for players actions. If you are rude to those in the group, people will group with you less.

I don't know...

When I use lfg tool (same server) and the group is formed I say 'Hello' to the group.

The roles are already set so no need to discuss roles.

If someone is not familiar with instance he should ask for help with tactics.

If there is need to discuss something (loot roll, tactics, helping or just friendly chatter), then I do that.

Some people are more outgoing and chat more, some are not. It's all good.

Now, why is not using lfg tool so much better for community?

Because of this?

- Standing on fleet station all the time…

- (general) Lfg Hammer Station

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (general) Lfg Hammer Station

- (whisper) Invite me /invite

- (party) Your role?

- (party) dps

- (party) ok, I’ll heal

- (general) Lf2m Hammer station tank/dps

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (general) Lf2m Hammer station tank/dps

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (whisper) I can dps /invite

- (party) Hello, hello

- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (whisper) ok, I’ll do it /invite

- (Party) Hello

- (party) XY, are you coming?

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (party) XY?

- XY has gone offline

- (general) Lf1m Hammer station

- (no response, general chat spam)

- (general) Lf1m Hammer station

- (whisper) I will go /invite

- (waiting for all players to get together)

- Enter flashpoint

- The rest is the same as with lfg tool