So, let me get this straight. You and your guild know that there are ways you can handle the increased cost for repairs, but are unwilling to make the changes needed, so it's up to BW/EA to lower the costs, even if it was a legitimate bug fix?

Except it wasn't.

I think the real point is, no one likes to pay more for things. This has been the way it was for a year, people have gotten used to it and theer is no legitimate reason to suddenly fix this "bug".

 

Does anyone truely want to ever pay more for the same thing? In a game or in real life?

It would seem the people who have been paying higher costs would disagree with you that this isn't a legitimate bug. Are we to just say "well, sucks to be you, been this way for a year trollololol."

And the priceless part is you actually included that line that I bolded, while people were already paying more for the same thing.

Except it wasn't.

except, it was, unless you can go into code and PROVE that it wasn't actually bugged and they decided to jack up the price, you cannot say that it wasn't bugged.

Uhh, no.

 

Real progression guilds will not let repairs bills stop them. 20-30 wipes? Try 100+ for some Nightmare Mode bosses. This is what farming/off-season is for. Run some dailies, stock up the guild bank between raids, and then use those tens of millions for when you spend 4 hours just wiping day after day.

 

Plus, many progression raiders don't sport low level orange shells and have been paying top dollar for repairs.

So according to you, "real progression guilds" have no problem with paying 2 million credits per player per run for some NM bosses? Don't think so.

You have tens of millions?

 

Share

 

we have 2 guilds, one imp one pub and keep about a million in each side.

we just don't have time to throw away like some people do.

Share pic?

http://i.imgur.com/pfYCM3q.jpg

That is our GB at the tail end of our progression season. Our tax system is actually being reinstated after the Gree event ends. It is not uncommon for progression guilds to have over 100+ mil in their GB between raids. We are the first to be able to craft the new tier gear and really capitalize on that monopoly.

Share creds?

Ha.

I don't think that you should have repair costs in a game with F2P elements which is (presumably) partially aimed at casual players.

When levelling, repair costs are a bit annoying. Presumably they're there as a game mechanic so you accept them at end-game where the bills get much bigger.

There, in subscription games, the repair bills are part of the 'work' that you do to raid week in week out. You need to buy consumables, repair your free so you go and get a job doing dailies in the main game world and flash points etc,

It's part of the cycle of getting people to raid each week - so they can stay subbed.

My point is, like others have said here, that if the game is aimed at casual players, why keep this job element grind in the game? It seems like an outmoded mechanic.

Except it wasn't.

Except it was because BW said so.

I moved to a new server so no subsidising from level 50's or legacy and have a 40 smuggler with all professions above 300 and 296k in my bank (already got level 3 speeding. I don't play the market and vendor almost everything so I call your 30K as BS as well, unless you waste money on the GTN.

I agree that the repair costs have gotten out of hand. Between disconnects and a couple of inexperienced players, we wiped a few times on the first boss in TfB HM last night. Average repair costs were 150k each, for an op we've had on farm for quite a while. This absolutely will make us more hostile towards bringing PuGs or even new guild members into our raids, since NOBODY likes running dailies.

I understand the bug fix for the vendor price. Previously, you could remove all the 61/63 modifications from a piece of gear, R/E them, and the vendor value of the gear wouldn't change. That always seemed odd to me.

But the side effect of dramatically increasing repair costs is actively harmful.

So according to you, "real progression guilds" have no problem with paying 2 million credits per player per run for some NM bosses? Don't think so.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Are you apart of a progression guild? No? Then please do not speak for us.

Have I been speaking for the casual guilds? No.

Have I said that the "new" repair costs will not affect them? No.

I have only been speaking about my progression guild and other progression guilds on my server ( we communicate frequently and actually have members who are within multiple progression guilds).

 

Does no one realize this was a bug that has now been fixed?

yea... it was a bug that was intentionally introduced in 1.2 and has only now been silently "fixed" after it was only miraculously discovered 9-10 months later despite the torrent of complaints by the playerbase

nice try though Biodrone...

Except it was because BW said so.

 

I moved to a new server so no subsidising from level 50's or legacy and have a 40 smuggler with all professions above 300 and 296k in my bank (already got level 3 speeding. I don't play the market and vendor almost everything so I call your 30K as BS as well, unless you waste money on the GTN.

That first line made me laugh. There are skills that when levelling, you have to use the GTN. There's no way to avoid that. To explain why, buying Titanium for instance, would take too much time, but what I say is true and I don't waste credits lightly. I had 1,8 millions hitting 20 due to a lucky sale of a crystal in the GTN, I have 1,83 millions now, hitting 45. Why would I lie?

Share pic?

 

http://i.imgur.com/pfYCM3q.jpg

 

That is our GB at the tail end of our progression season. Our tax system is actually being reinstated after the Gree event ends. It is not uncommon for progression guilds to have over 100+ mil in their GB between raids. We are the first to be able to craft the new tier gear and really capitalize on that monopoly.

 

 

Share creds?

 

Ha.

Not bad, you only have three tabs? take 7.5 and get the next one

we don't have a tax for our guilds, we don't think people should pay for the privilege of playing with us. though some might pay for us to go away......

hmmmm I could have something here

joking aside tho might I ask how your tax system works?

That first line made me laugh. There are skills that when levelling, you have to use the GTN. There's no way to avoid that. To explain why, buying Titanium for instance, would take too much time, but what I say is true and I don't waste credits lightly. I had 1,8 millions hitting 20 due to a lucky sale of a crystal in the GTN, I have 1,83 millions now, hitting 45. Why would I lie?

you do not in any way have to use the GTN

you do not in any way have to use the GTN

Prove me wrong. Other than that, this is off-topic.

Prove me wrong. Other than that, this is off-topic.

while leveling, you don't have to use the gtn at all, you can get all the gear you need through quests, i've leveled up multiple crafting profs (cybertech synth bio arms) all while leveling a character, and never bought resources off the GTN. You do NOT need to use the gtn whlie leveling, at all

At what level are you guys seeing these skyrocketing prices? My level 36 sniper dies, 1k in repair costs. My level 11 assassin dies, less than 60 credits in repair costs.

My lvl 22 mara wiped in a FP and got hit with a 12k repair bill(wearing blues, no +41 crystals). If that's the case for your characters then this means it's not happening universally. Maybe we should get some people to test it. I would but I'm not home until 10:30pm(huzzah night classes)

joking aside tho might I ask how your tax system works?

Weekly tax System:

Every week, every progression raider (we have some friends and family members in the guild who have no interest in raiding so they are excluded) is required to put 25k-50k in the GB. If you haven't played much one week, just put in 25k. If you have had the time to run some dailies, play the GTN, you should put in 50k. One of the officers monitors the ledger to see who has missed payments and who hasn't. This tax is suspended once a new raid is released.

Crafting tax

As I have said earlier, we usually have a monopoly on being able to craft the next tier of gear once the latest raid is released. Our loot system allows for some gear drops to be immediately RE'ed and crafters sell the new gear. The guild takes a small amount of their profit and puts it towards repairs, buying crafting materials, etc. This allows us to have an inflow of credits throughout progression season. As it stands, this is where we get the most cash. We can craft every Dread Guard piece in house and sell full armor sets to people.

Plus we also have some very rich members who will donate from time to time.

2. Progression takes a hit.

Guilds will be less willing to wipe over and over again on bosses because of this. If a group wipes 20-30 times on a boss they can't kill it could cost nearly a million credits per player.

Uhh, no.

Real progression guilds will not let repairs bills stop them. 20-30 wipes? Try 100+ for some Nightmare Mode bosses. This is what farming/off-season is for. Run some dailies, stock up the guild bank between raids, and then use those tens of millions for when you spend 4 hours just wiping day after day.

Plus, many progression raiders don't sport low level orange shells and have been paying top dollar for repairs.

So according to you, "real progression guilds" have no problem with paying 2 million credits per player per run for some NM bosses? Don't think so.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Are you apart of a progression guild? No? Then please do not speak for us.

Have I been speaking for the casual guilds? No.

Have I said that the "new" repair costs will not affect them? No.

I have only been speaking about my progression guild and other progression guilds on my server ( we communicate frequently and actually have members who are within multiple progression guilds).

What I should have said instead of "Don't think so" is "Most other guilds can not do this".

What you posted was in response to "2. Progression takes a hit".

Just because 2 or 3 guilds per server are hardcore enough to not care about cost does not mean that progression does not take a hit.

A majority of guilds ARE progression guilds, but they are not hard core progression guilds like yours.

They do not have 10-20 million credits to throw away every week to try to progress.

So those of us not in "real progression guilds" but in guilds that want to progress will have a much harder time doing so with the severe repair costs EA just implemented.

while leveling, you don't have to use the gtn at all, you can get all the gear you need through quests, i've leveled up multiple crafting profs (cybertech synth bio arms) all while leveling a character, and never bought resources off the GTN. You do NOT need to use the gtn whlie leveling, at all

You don't get it. This is not about levelling and not having to use the GTN for that. This is about crafting while levelling and not getting the items you need for crafting in a reasonable amount to effectively use your crew skill. One example, i needed Titanium for mods, but my Underworld Metal crew skill would only offer me one mission to gather that. You can't skill under these circumstances, unless you wait till lv50. Which would be nonsense. There are ways to not have to use the GTN, but in what way was making the best of your skills while you level actually such a hassle? Either wait two weeks until you've gathered the stuff you need or pay too much on the GTN? Where's the fun in that?

Well i'm glad it's not my fault as there are a couple of missions I used to do daily ( not since the gree event ) and usually i would die and then hand in ( on 2 of the missions ) I thought that play style caused this increase in repair costs. Glad it's something else or I would have a million jedi and sith with pitch forks running after me. I will check the repair cost of running the one h2 I used to do as one of my characters isn't 45 plus to do the event. Last night it cost him 20 k for one death and hes level 38 but that might have included earlier deaths. Mind you my companion usually dies on the h2 anyways so that might be why it was 20 k .

To be fair though the prices sound a lot like they used to be , my commando never ever had any money , in fact he only just bought some of the higher level 40 skills recently. I used m1-4x all the time and he got killed lots and a few buggy missions made me totally broke. Never run a group with 2 smugglers if you want money lol

Cheers,

BadOrb.

You don't get it. This is not about levelling and not having to use the GTN for that. This is about crafting while levelling and not getting the items you need for crafting in a reasonable amount to effectively use your crew skill. One example, i needed Titanium for mods, but my Underworld Metal crew skill would only offer me one mission to gather that. You can't skill under these circumstances, unless you wait till lv50. Which would be nonsense. There are ways to not have to use the GTN, but in what way was making the best of your skills while you level actually such a hassle? Either wait two weeks until you've gathered the stuff you need or pay too much on the GTN? Where's the fun in that?

The fact remains that while you feel justified and prudent in your use of the GTN, If you had not spent credits on the GTN, all those credits you spent would be available to use for repairs. To complain that you have only seen a 30K increase in 25 levels so the repair costs are excessive holds no credence for me, when by your own admission you spent credits on the GTN. I myself have never had less than 1 million on any toon when it hit 50. This after buying all skills and leveling all crew skills. Most have had closer to 1.5 million.

Not read all the thread but from what I have read some people say I want to refute.

My gear on my sage is black hole, campaign and dreadguard. I have never changed any mods over, I brought the item and then equiped it. Only change is adding an augment slot.

My repair cost is now 11380 per death, before the patch it was lower, low enough that I did not really notice (probably about 5k).

The so-called bug fix should not have affected me at all, my gear is straight from the vendor. Yet my repair costs have shot up.

2 evenings on 10 stacks dreadtooth (got it down last night) has meant quite a hefty repair bill, probably around 300k, an amout a casual player like me who hates dailies can't afford for too long. I'm not pugging any content now on any of my 50's, just can't afford to help people learn ops.

Prove me wrong. Other than that, this is off-topic.

You can easily level based only on gear you get from rewards.

You can easily level crafting skill based only on the materials you gather in the field, you don't need the blue/purple craftable items to level crafting skills. You don't need blue/purple craftable items while leveling.

So "needed" costs are:

Skills.

Crafting Schematics.

Repair costs.

Speeder. *cheap on the GTN right now so might as well use the GTN once*

Now to offset those costs, usually when I level a new character (I have 8 level 50s currently working on my 9th) what I do is give them a crafting skill, the corresponding gathering skill (even if I will later change this at level 50) and slicing (even if I will later change this at 50).

Slicing more than gives enough credits to buy crafting schematics and skills on its own if you just stop periodically to RE boxes.

Mission rewards more than pay for even the newly jacked repair costs.

The resulting 1+mil I get at the end of a level 50 character run, I feed into legacy unlocks for the next one as well as switching any crafting skills if desired.

NOW that being said.

If you remove the speeder cost (one time, cheap purchase for an adaptable form the GTN (probably less than 30k), Jacking one third of the costs associated with leveling is a bit drastic of a "bug fix" regardless of everything else.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Are you apart of a progression guild? No? Then please do not speak for us.

 

Have I been speaking for the casual guilds? No.

Have I said that the "new" repair costs will not affect them? No.

 

I have only been speaking about my progression guild and other progression guilds on my server ( we communicate frequently and actually have members who are within multiple progression guilds).

As a progression raider, I do worry about costs as we do not do what you do and have the guild fund it all. We all fund our own costs and reap or own rewards (we roll for crystals for example). We do pool molecular stabalizers but we then distribute them among the raiders when requested for gear, we don't use them to create gear and GTN them.

So to turn around your admonition, don't claim to speak for all progression guilds. We all do things differently.

Now that being said, this is not going to keep me from throwing myself week after week against NM EC or against any new content that comes out. It will however mean instead of raiding most nights, I will have to spend time grinding. Time that I would rather be running alts through ops and teaching others to do ops/etc.

I will do it, but frankly grinding is a stupid concept that needs to exist less in these games, not more. Make the content difficult and interesting enough and people will run it regardless. Making it "necessary" through an artificial grind mechanic is just lazy level design. Remember the game's purpose is to have fun... do people have fun with progression raiding or pvping or... any number of difficult things they may not succeed at at first and may take considerable time to do... yes.

I don't think I know anyone who finds mindless grinding for credits fun.

Found this in the 1.2 patch notes:

Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.

So according to this, ever since 1.2 modable items have been taking into account the level of mods in repairs. This means that in absolutely no way should a low level item with high level mods have cost less to repair than a high level item with the same mods.

In the 1.7 patch notes:

Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.

If I read this correctly, then the repair costs didn't take into account the enhancements in the gear and ONLY the enhancements. Enhancements are 1/3 of most moddable pieces so lets do some math.

Say pre-1.7 you wiped and got a 4k repair bill for a single wipe. About half your gear doesn't use enhancements anyway, so take off half of that and include only repair for moddable gear with enhancements. This leaves 2k. Now say that it is only taking into account armorings and mods so that is 1k per mod. Now by this logic enhancements should have an equal value when calculating repair costs as they are 1/3 of the stats. This would mean that adding the enhancement should bring the price of it up about 1k.

By this math the total repair cost would be about 5k. It is instead 10k.

This would mean that the enhancements would bring prices up about 6k, making it 6x any other item in the gear. This is some fairly basic math here, and nothing really makes sense.

Also, according to the notes the sell values of items should go up too, I checked and they didn't. Item sell values are about the same.

You don't get it. This is not about levelling and not having to use the GTN for that. This is about crafting while levelling and not getting the items you need for crafting in a reasonable amount to effectively use your crew skill. One example, i needed Titanium for mods, but my Underworld Metal crew skill would only offer me one mission to gather that. You can't skill under these circumstances, unless you wait till lv50. Which would be nonsense. There are ways to not have to use the GTN, but in what way was making the best of your skills while you level actually such a hassle? Either wait two weeks until you've gathered the stuff you need or pay too much on the GTN? Where's the fun in that?

You don't get it.... you can level all crafting skills to 400 without using a single blue material. You don't need underworld metal to level crafting. From saying mods, it sounds like you are leveling a cybertech. While leveling cybertech, make green level mods/armorings and you don't need any underworld metal materials.

Buy your mods/enahancements from the planetary reward vendors with commendations, get them from rewards or use the greens. There is no content in this game that needs the blues or purples while leveling if you do all the quests. If you skip everything and just do the class quests and are a level or two behind the world ... yes you will have problems... but that is a state you put yourself in, it is by no means necessary.