There doesn't seem to be a search option *prods web team*

So, here's my Satele rant. Please explain if you can cause I'm truly confused.

Why is Satele so much older looking as a character than from the Splash Scree, which depicts Coru burning?

I asked this question in Guild and was informed that 'we' are playing 60yrs after the Sacking. I counter with if this is true why is so much of Coru still under heavy construction (almost all buildings in the distance have cranes and scaffolding on them).

Furthermore, why are all the holo-transmissions of Satele "young".

And even more "***" is only just found here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan

In 3,653 BBY, Shan was selected by the Jedi High Council to accompany Master Dar'Nala back to Alderaan, where peace negotiations were being held between delegations from the Republic and Empire.

[...]

Around 3,643 BBY, full-scale war was very nearly reignited between the Republic and Empire when rogue droids and a Mandalorian warrior began initiating conflicts between the two governments.

It can be assumed that the first quote is around the time of "Hope Trailer". And the second one around our time (+/-10yr).

Now I don't know about you all but in 'Hope', she looks to be about 25. So ten years later (see bolded dated) she would be in her early to mid 30s. And by our time possibly even 40.

Using today's logic, people in their 40s look extremely young compared to those who were 40 say 100yrs ago. So you extrapolate that into Star Wars and you should be able to assume that you'd look 30 well up into your 70s.

I also remember beta-Satele (coining this!)...if you want a refresher:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-CTmGpA0Eo

Time Index 0:24+

Her ingame model depicted the 'correct' "Body Age".

Anyone got any insight as to why the change in her appearance?

If you play as a Jedi Knight and are asked to go to the temple ruins the character has the option of mentioning how long ago it was since the temple was sacked. Implied, possibly even says, that it was more than 20 years ago. This would add 20 years or more onto her age at the sacking of Coruscant.

Which would make her at least 50.

If you play as a Jedi Knight and are asked to go to the temple ruins the character has the option of mentioning how long ago it was since the temple was sacked. Implied, possibly even says, that it was more than 20 years ago. This would add 20 years or more onto her age at the sacking of Coruscant.

 

Which would make her at least 50.

Must have missed that option.

So then the 'younger' model featured in the trailer (linked), holo-transmissioned, and even the original Beta (I came in Beta...5 [i think]; the following Beta she was 'old'..that's all I know) was a design mistake???

That second Wookiepedia quote describes events that took place in the Fatal Alliance novel, which occurs right around the same time as the game. Shan is Grand Master of the Jedi Order during the novel, and both the Imperial and Republic characters in the novel consider a resurgence of war to be imminent - just like many people in the game do.

I'm not sure that I'd place the first quote with the events of the "Hope" trailer, however. The depiction of Alderaan in the Deceived novel doesn't have battles still raging on the planet. That novel covers the time period including the Sacking of Coruscant and the Treaty of Coruscant, even providing a novelized version of Malgus's assault on the Jedi Temple from the "Deceived" trailer.

My understanding (which I realize could be wrong) has been that the game takes place in 3643 BBY, roughly 10 years after the Treaty of Coruscant. I'll try to take a look through my copies of Deceived and Fatal Alliance for descriptions of Satele Shan, then edit them into this post in case that might help with this question.

Everything from this point on has been edited in after the above

Satele, on the other hand, looked as tightly wound as an ion coil, her gaze fixed straight ahead, her auburn hair mussed, the veneer of her neutral expression unable to mask the emotion boiling beneath it. [p.42]

"Tell him why," said Grand Master Satele Shan, standing at his side with hands folded firmly before her. She was a full head shorter than Shigar but radiated an indomitable sense of self. [p.17]

 

With a finely boned face and gray-streaked hair, she was not a tall woman [...] [p.36]

 

[...] the slight woman with the gray streak wearing the robes of a Jedi Knight. [p. 252]

 

[...] a mature woman with gray-streaked brown hair [...] [p. 341]

These are the most useful passages that include any physical description of Satele Shan from those two novels - though admittedly they aren't that useful, after all.

So, we first see Satele in 'Return' looking pretty young, this took place in 3,681 BBY.

The Sacking of Coruscant took place in 3,653 BBY, and from what I can tell, the game starts 10 years later in 3,643 BBY. That's 38 years. Even if she were 10 in 'Return', she's still pushin' 50 by the time of game, and she doesn't look 10 years old in 'Return', so let's say she's maybe 20 at that time.

I'd say she looks pretty spry for a 60-year old in game.

Interesting that they'd make her young (in game model) then decide to "oldify" (coined!) her later...since she's a custom model it would have been easier to make her in her current form, which would have then been used for the holo-transmission models. And if the time line was already established; there's really no "we didn't know" excuse.

I guess I could argue that Rukil is (supposedly) 100+ and doesn't look a bit over 75; Satele has too many age marks.

In fact, I've never really studied Star Wars lore, but what is the average life expectancy of humans "now". In Babylon 5 it was something like 120. And in Star Trek I think 135. So if all these "future-depicting" shows say humans' new 'middle age' is about 70; that still puts Satele at looking old before her time.

So, we first see Satele in 'Return' looking pretty young, this took place in 3,681 BBY.

 

The Sacking of Coruscant took place in 3,653 BBY, and from what I can tell, the game starts 10 years later in 3,643 BBY. That's 38 years. Even if she were 10 in 'Return', she's still pushin' 50 by the time of game, and she doesn't look 10 years old in 'Return', so let's say she's maybe 20 at that time.

 

I'd say she looks pretty spry for a 60-year old in game.

Ah, but as she is a Light Sided Jedi Master, would the force have preserved her to some extent?

Stress lines. Come on, fighting the Sith for 30 years, losing your home and losing the war, being unsure of the future of the Jedi Order, discovering Tython and then having to build a new Temple...!

Look as good, you would not!

Ah, but as she is a Light Sided Jedi Master, would the force have preserved her to some extent?

Never seen a piece of media that suggests that Light Side has any anti-aging effects. Only thing that might come close is the physics of relativistic speeds, but that isn't used at ALL in Star Wars.

Interesting that they'd make her young (in game model) then decide to "oldify" (coined!) her later...since she's a custom model it would have been easier to make her in her current form, which would have then been used for the holo-transmission models. And if the time line was already established; there's really no "we didn't know" excuse.

 

I guess I could argue that Rukil is (supposedly) 100+ and doesn't look a bit over 75; Satele has too many age marks.

 

In fact, I've never really studied Star Wars lore, but what is the average life expectancy of humans "now". In Babylon 5 it was something like 120. And in Star Trek I think 135. So if all these "future-depicting" shows say humans' new 'middle age' is about 70; that still puts Satele at looking old before her time.

I don't get what you are complaining about. I've not seen a single episode in game where Satele looks younger. The holo videos, she looks aged and lined as she does in person, just not as perceptible because of the blue transparent look. If you are referring to the videos, those videos are long ago in the past; Deceived is the last, 10 years ago with the sacking of Coruscant, Hope is before that, a victory the Republic had that forced the Empire to do its desperate attack on Coruscant in Deceive that brought the cease fire, and then Return is where it all began which is the start of the war.

I don't get what you are complaining about. I've not seen a single episode in game where Satele looks younger. The holo videos, she looks aged and lined as she does in person, just not as perceptible because of the blue transparent look. If you are referring to the videos, those videos are long ago in the past; Deceived is the last, 10 years ago with the sacking of Coruscant, Hope is before that, a victory the Republic had that forced the Empire to do its desperate attack on Coruscant in Deceive that brought the cease fire, and then Return is where it all began which is the start of the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-CTmGpA0Eo

Actual ingame footage

And here's a screen shot I just did while talking with the terminal for Hammer Station:

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/Simulo/swtor_satele.png

argh, ***, photobucket be resizing it -_-

here's the actual screen shot if you want to get a good look:

http://www.mediafire.com/?gzddyccu4wh5qwy

Monitor 1: 1680x1050

Monitor 2: 19020x1080 (gave me headaches so can't use it as primary /sadface)

-That's why there's a black bar at the bottom; it's exactly 30pixels "tall"

Now I can't get a screenshot of Satele since my Knight is past the 'story instances' that feature her (he's lvl 22 atm). So, anyone out there got some time or able to provide a current ingame shot of her; try and do like I did and get it when the camera is focus-zoomed on her.

As for my complaint, it's not so much a complaint; just a "why did you (BW) change this model". Because personally, I thought it (the game) was maybe 5yrs after the Deceived Trailer, which depicted the Sacking....well start of the sacking. And I figured the Deceived Trailer came after the Hope Trailer (timeline-wise).

I say this because I'm looking at the Deceived right now at at 1:54 it shows his face and you can clearly see the damage from the thermal grenade he ate in Hope. The wiki also states that in 'Hope' he was defeated; not killed.

So, it sort of threw me for a loop when I started the next Beta and found her old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-CTmGpA0Eo

 

Actual ingame footage

 

And here's a screen shot I just did while talking with the terminal for Hammer Station:

 

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff265/Simulo/swtor_satele.png

 

argh, ***, photobucket be resizing it -_-

 

here's the actual screen shot if you want to get a good look:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?gzddyccu4wh5qwy

 

Monitor 1: 1680x1050

Monitor 2: 19020x1080 (gave me headaches so can't use it as primary /sadface)

 

-That's why there's a black bar at the bottom; it's exactly 30pixels "tall"

 

Now I can't get a screenshot of Satele since my Knight is past the 'story instances' that feature her (he's lvl 22 atm). So, anyone out there got some time or able to provide a current ingame shot of her; try and do like I did and get it when the camera is focus-zoomed on her.

 

As for my complaint, it's not so much a complaint; just a "why did you (BW) change this model". Because personally, I thought it (the game) was maybe 5yrs after the Deceived Trailer, which depicted the Sacking....well start of the sacking. And I figured the Deceived Trailer came after the Hope Trailer (timeline-wise).

 

I say this because I'm looking at the Deceived right now at at 1:54 it shows his face and you can clearly see the damage from the thermal grenade he ate in Hope. The wiki also states that in 'Hope' he was defeated; not killed.

 

So, it sort of threw me for a loop when I started the next Beta and found her old.

Yes, but Satele is not present in Decieved. Even if it was, as you say, 5 years ago, it could be a lot more time between Hope and Decieved. Just sayin'.

Yes, but Satele is not present in Decieved. Even if it was, as you say, 5 years ago, it could be a lot more time between Hope and Decieved. Just sayin'.

Okay, so why was Satele's in game model young in the E3 Trailer, which I might add, specifically shows QUEST GAMEPLAY. The specific title of said quest escapes me but it's the one where she asks to speak to the Knight before going before the (Jedi) Council.

Why is her holo-transmission model of the same model IN that E3 Trailer.

Why was her model the same as the E3 Trailer sometime around September-ish (I entered the beta and then preordered).

What can I say, she was good looking; pixel or not

The war lasted ~30 years, SWTOR takes place ~10 years after that.

Mkay, so...the original Satele model was a mistake?

Was it raised in the beta testing forums that Satele should appear older? <-probably this

If no one has figured it out by now, the trailers go in reverse order from their release. Chronologically, Return is first, then Hope, then Deceived. This was stated by the developers this summer.

So it's entirely possible that the design team was using a model intended for Satele in Return for in-game footage until the aged model was created. Stuff like this happens when games are under development.

I wouldn't worry too much about how she looked in trailers of game footage versus now. Game footage trailers have to be taken with a grain of salt, not everything they portray comes true, some things are tossed in beta for being too buggy or over/under powered. Similarly, designs can change based on player and reviewer feedback, as well as internal feedback from the producers and Lucasarts.

tl;dr: Chill, folks, stuff can change from beta. It's not the end of the world.

The E3 trailer is irrevelent, it was a while ago. Things changes between stuff shown in gameplay trailers and the actual game. As a game tester, I can assure you of that, I've seen it happen to nearly all games.

I personally haven't seen Satele Shan in game yet, but it's normal that she would appear older.

As for the hologram thing, it could be a mistake from the dev, I'd say report it, the game is not fully stable yet, I've seen many bugs in cutscenes, like cloth and hair color being wrong, eyes disapearing and such.

Or it's intentional, to decieve you into believing your character is talking to a young person, in case you're a sith spy.

I'm going to go ahead and risk blowing your minds and say...It's a game based on a made-up universe!

Things rarely fit together perfectly in real life, so you can't expect perfection in a game.

You don't need to wrack your brains to death trying to iron out every little insignificant thing.

Also, as far as the whole aging thing goes. I've never heard that being a Jedi is supposed to halt aging and different people age differently. Look at Johnny Depp, for example. He's how old? In his 50s, I think? And he looks half that age. Jack Nicholson has looked 65 since the early 70s.

The E3 trailer is irrevelent, it was a while ago. Things changes between stuff shown in gameplay trailers and the actual game. As a game tester, I can assure you of that, I've seen it happen to nearly all games.

 

I personally haven't seen Satele Shan in game yet, but it's normal that she would appear older.

 

As for the hologram thing, it could be a mistake from the dev, I'd say report it, the game is not fully stable yet, I've seen many bugs in cutscenes, like cloth and hair color being wrong, eyes disapearing and such.

Or it's intentional, to decieve you into believing your character is talking to a young person, in case you're a sith spy.

Oh no doubt. I've been in LoTRO, STO, WAR, D3, SWTOR (dur), Global Agenda, Genesis A.D. betas. So I'm aware stuff gets scraped; usually to be brought back in an expansion as "new" (/clevergirl). The reason I go back to the E3 Trailer is because it actually featured in game footage; specifically the quest where the Jedi Knights first go to the Temple and get a holo-communique from Satele to come speak with her before going before the rest of the council. So, this wasn't some "would this be cool; ya lets make some footage of it" it was actually in the beta, and is in the release.

If no one has figured it out by now, the trailers go in reverse order from their release. Chronologically, Return is first, then Hope, then Deceived. This was stated by the developers this summer.

 

So it's entirely possible that the design team was using a model intended for Satele in Return for in-game footage until the aged model was created. Stuff like this happens when games are under development.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about how she looked in trailers of game footage versus now. Game footage trailers have to be taken with a grain of salt, not everything they portray comes true, some things are tossed in beta for being too buggy or over/under powered. Similarly, designs can change based on player and reviewer feedback, as well as internal feedback from the producers and Lucasarts.

 

tl;dr: Chill, folks, stuff can change from beta. It's not the end of the world.

Yep, that's how I figured the trailers went. Think I stated it in that order in one of my posts.

Ya, I know it's not the end of the world, but...c'moooon; she was fine (literally and in attractiveness slang).

I actually made this face when I saw the "revised" Satele: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Also, BW, if you look at this; use F7 (nod to MS Word) next time. Model-mishaps aren't the only thing plaguing this game.

In short, I guess I wished for SWTOR to be closer to The War than it actually is. Would have made for a much more...dramatic and dark game; post-War Coru..mmmm

I'm going to go ahead and risk blowing your minds and say...It's a game based on a made-up universe!

Things rarely fit together perfectly in real life, so you can't expect perfection in a game.

You don't need to wrack your brains to death trying to iron out every little insignificant thing.

 

Also, as far as the whole aging thing goes. I've never heard that being a Jedi is supposed to halt aging and different people age differently. Look at Johnny Depp, for example. He's how old? In his 50s, I think? And he looks half that age. Jack Nicholson has looked 65 since the early 70s.

The way I see it is the Dark side is like a high-stress job. And the Light side is a job you actually have fun at.

It's proven that high levels of stress cause you to age faster.

And stress can come from just about anything and any emotion...like Anger!

Though, if you look at the wiki Lord Scourge is suppose to be immortal (I assume 'immortal' as in doesn't age; but can still be killed).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scourge_(Sith)

Go down to were it talks about 'Emperor's Wrath'. And wasn't it at least hinted that Master Yoda was older than he should be?

Never seen a piece of media that suggests that Light Side has any anti-aging effects. Only thing that might come close is the physics of relativistic speeds, but that isn't used at ALL in Star Wars.

No... but generally speaking LS characters look more 'beautiful' and DS characters look more 'ugly'.

So unless the character is specifically meant to be portrayed as 'old and wise', more 'beautiful' looking generally means looking younger or at least 'fresher' for your age. Remember KOTOR character faces as you approached LS and DS?