Jump to content

Harm in 12xXP


Vasflam

Recommended Posts

For a typical Subscriber, 12xXP causes a great deal of harm to any and all meaningful group&social content between 1 and 55.

For typical player, it can remove other players from the picture almost entirely. Average player spends most of his 1-55 by driving from one instance to another while occasionally listening to Jennifer Hale say nice things.

 

GSF, Flashpoints, Planetary Heroics, Warzones.. all these activities have utterly irrelevant reward from doing them, in comparison to 12xXp. Incentive to get involved in these activities is largely gone for many. Besdies the figurative carrot not being there, time to chase it is also missing: Weekend with spacebar is all it takes to get from 1 to 55 now. If you mostly just level one character after another via 12xXP, it is very hard to end up involved in any of the major sub- communities within the game. There just isn't enough in-game time for that. Since leveling is the major beef for huge portion of players..well you figure out just how harmful this is to every social aspect of the game. It is an excellent example of a well loved feature that people embrace and like without realizing or caring what it does to community they, too, belong to.

 

12xXP makes an experience that tears layer after layer of content off players road maps entirely. It leaves you with just a pretty dialogue wheel to spin. It shoehorns people in fashion that makes their overall experience entirely story focused, quite isolated and, frankly, reasonably...dumb.

 

It is extremely ironic how it is Premium and F2P crowd who end up with much more rich, much more varied experience. For them, as collective, levels 1-55 don't just fly by in a single weekend. For them, despite still having far more modest XP reward, GSF, WZs, FPs&etc aren't destined to appear as ridiculously unrewarding waste of time in comparison to 1200% reward of doing storyline. (Yeah. Think about it. One activity in this game gives reward that is one thousand and two hundred percent greater than any other activity. ) No matter how hard you wanna disagree with my claims/observations, I think you have to admit Premium players, as collective, have much easier time ending up with much more varied leveling experience. Game doesn't actively tempt them into utter monotone of one single, often isolated, activity like it does to Subscribers. It takes very little spin to claim premium people actually have much more feature rich game, heh. They are the ones still keeping FP queus, GSF matches, Warzones, etc alive.

 

 

....

PLS READ BELOW TOO!

 

Couple of preemptive remarks&counterpoints usually played when somebody dares to suggest 12xXP isn't coolest thing since sliced bread:

 

Q:But I love 12xXP? I am here for the story and it enabled me to enjoy the story! So 12xXP is great wth??

A: Cause and effect usually differ. It makes perfect sense why BW brought 12xXP. It makes perfect sense why people like it. I'm not personally a fan of it..but neither am I saying it should be moved. It's just that there is absolutely no reason why it should be 1200% more rewarding, in terms of XP given, than rest of the game.

 

Q: Aha! But you can buy an item that disables it! You, Vasflam, don't have to use 12xXp if you don't like! So it looks like your point is moot!

A: It isn't important how quickly or slowly or through which activity I, or any one single player gets his xp. I certainly personally don't care of MY xp. It's just that community is made of collective pile of people. and HUGE portion of this pile will never want to nerf their experience.

Edited by Vasflam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

To the OP ...

 

Yes it does. 12 XP does harm group content while leveling.

 

But to be honest, some servers have such low population levels, I think group content while leveling is dead on them anyway. 12 XP or no 12 XP. Sure there are some servers with very dynamic and very much alive population levels but this is hardly the case of servers like PoT5.

 

The point I think was to ramp up population numbers prior to the expansion coming out. I don't think having a simple subscriber specialty item give away was considered to be enough of a draw, and since the expansion is only for subscribers only, they wanted to do something extra to entice more subscribers in.

 

They also wanted to ensure that those subscribers would be ready to do the expansion content even if they are brand new to the game. 12 XP fit the bill for both. And I suspect that the devs probably view it overall as a success but we probably won't ever know how many subscribers joined between the time the expansion was announced and 12 XP kicked in to the time when the expansion was released.

 

You have to consider that this expansion is a new business model for them. No game to buy, just subscribe. And stay subscribed until all of the content is released.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

harm? there really isn't any real harm. most of those activities you mention, people tend to skip or ignore naturally even without 12xp.

 

fp, and wz are still a thing and i still see people do heroics. the only one that may be suffering is gsf, that is like a individual preference to like or dislike

 

 

3/10 op

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the OP ...

 

Yes it does. 12 XP does harm group content while leveling.

 

But to be honest, some servers have such low population levels, I think group content while leveling is dead on them anyway. 12 XP or no 12 XP. Sure there are some servers with very dynamic and very much alive population levels but this is hardly the case of servers like PoT5.

 

The point I think was to ramp up population numbers prior to the expansion coming out. I don't think having a simple subscriber specialty item give away was considered to be enough of a draw, and since the expansion is only for subscribers only, they wanted to do something extra to entice more subscribers in.

 

They also wanted to ensure that those subscribers would be ready to do the expansion content even if they are brand new to the game. 12 XP fit the bill for both. And I suspect that the devs probably view it overall as a success but we probably won't ever know how many subscribers joined between the time the expansion was announced and 12 XP kicked in to the time when the expansion was released.

 

You have to consider that this expansion is a new business model for them. No game to buy, just subscribe. And stay subscribed until all of the content is released.

 

 

 

Yeah I agree on much of this, reasons behind them wanting to do this are there. It made sense to buff class story XP so hard you can level by doing just that. People certainly loved the crap out of it. What doesn't make sense and is utterly damaging to depth of the game and flavor of it's community is how every single other activity was left to rot., in terms of XP rewarded.

Edited by Vasflam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no harm with this, if a player wants to disable the X12 it is possible with a White Acute Module.

 

Did you read the part of my post that started with me saying " please read below too" in caps?

Edited by Vasflam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you read the part of my post that started with me saying " please read below too" in caps?

 

I think you are missing the point. Collectively there was a huge portion of players that weren't running group content with out 12xp. The game was losing subs because these players, once they got beyond the first few planets, left the game. With 12xp these players hang around and even work up alts. But they would not be playing if the old Vanilla grind was all they had to look forward too because, as you know, they don't generally group.

 

And now, a new phenomenon is occurring. Many "solo" players are trying out group content after cap. They are doing it for two reasons. One, they are coming back for the xpac and are finding it easy to do as gear and group finder are practically serving up this content with little or no effort required on their part. Tacticals, SM Ops are facerolls since they are over leveled, basic comms drop like candy and gives them decent gear etc. And two, because many now feel comfortable enough to do the content having found friends or guilds ingame that run them through. At end game, right now, many of these solo artist aren't great group players but they are good enough to learn. And with a little success they catch the end game bug and realize that group content is a great experience and want to do more.

 

How can make such assertions? It is happening in my guild right now. We have an influx of new guildies that never ran EV or KP and are now motivated to clear them. Sure, they are facerolls at 60, but this is leading them right into newer and more difficult content. The bolster also helps them a great deal in higher level SM Ops so that gear isn't a gate for them. And before we knew what was happening, these previously solo players are starving for Ops in my guild. Where we were raiding once a week two months ago, we raid almost every night now and have multiple standing raid groups. And yes, 12xp got them there.

 

So, 12xp isn't a great thing as many players don't know their class at cap. But once they are there with a little push and desire on their part, they learn what they need too. There is more good than harm from 12xp.

Edited by Rafaman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know. I'm on Shadowlands and my last two toons have been my Sentinel (DPS obviously) and now my Scoundrel (leveling as a Healer). I've gotten FP pops - on both - as I have leveled. So, I think people are still doing them. I haven't bothered with a planetary Heroic tho since ... the first time I did Makeb ... when it launched. But that's just me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last time I checked KOTFE is going to remove 12XP and would scale you for content, basically doing what you want there. And it is happening in only 4 weeks.

 

What is the point of that thread?

To ask for something, which is already on a way? To whine?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are missing the point. Collectively there was a huge portion of players that weren't running group content with out 12xp. The game was losing subs because these players, once they got beyond the first few planets, left the game. With 12xp these players hang around and even work up alts. But they would not be playing if the old Vanilla grind was all they had to look forward too because, as you know, they don't generally group.

 

And now, a new phenomenon is occurring. Many "solo" players are trying out group content after cap. They are doing it for two reasons. One, they are coming back for the xpac and are finding it easy to do as gear and group finder are practically serving up this content with little or no effort required on their part. Tacticals, SM Ops are facerolls since they are over leveled, basic comms drop like candy and gives them decent gear etc. And two, because many now feel comfortable enough to do the content having found friends or guilds ingame that run them through. At end game, right now, many of these solo artist aren't great group players but they are good enough to learn. And with a little success they catch the end game bug and realize that group content is a great experience and want to do more.

 

How can make such assertions? It is happening in my guild right now. We have an influx of new guildies that never ran EV or KP and are now motivated to clear them. Sure, they are facerolls at 60, but this is leading them right into newer and more difficult content. The bolster also helps them a great deal in higher level SM Ops so that gear isn't a gate for them. And before we knew what was happening, these previously solo players are starving for Ops in my guild. Where we were raiding once a week two months ago, we raid almost every night now and have multiple standing raid groups. And yes, 12xp got them there.

 

So, 12xp isn't a great thing as many players don't know their class at cap. But once they are there with a little push and desire on their part, they learn what they need too. There is more good than harm from 12xp.

 

 

Collectively there is, and always was, a huge portion of players that weren't doing "any of the [actuivity X]" Healthy theme park MMos have always been all about having multiple, often overlapping, vibrant minorities each involved in their own way of having fun. I'm sure we both agree this is the preferable option to anything else.

 

Similarly, every MMO ( every video game, if you will. Specially F2P. ) will always have a huge measure of people who drop the game after playing it for..say, 1, 5, 20 or 30 hours. So saying SW:TOR has/had some huge problem because so many people quit after 20 hours or so isn't necessarily admission that there was/is some huge problem with the game as such. Just the way things are.

 

I agree 12xXP takes much more people to cap. That is, potentially a good thing indeed. It's just that I'm not sure if being at lvl cap and doing the usual end game has ever been all that strong suite for SW:TOR. I've a strong impression that it is during the leveling process that people have their greatest experiences. Having it last longer isn't necessarily a bad thing at all. ..

...But of course, all of this is bit besides the point. Again, I'm not asking for 12xXP to be removed. I'm underlining the irrationality and harm in having every other activity besides with 1200% more modest rewards. No reason why this should be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its only really harmful to new people starting the game as things can move a little too quickly for them to fully understand the consequences of some things.

 

However, for someone who has say completed the game a few times already (pre 12x xp) already has a grasp of game mechanics already but has already ran group content a few times plus planetary quests too being able to level without these would be great.

 

I am not sure as a first time I would like to speed through it, I would prefer to take my time, in fact I am starting almost all characters again but this time I am going to do everything, hear every cutscene etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are missing the point. Collectively there was a huge portion of players that weren't running group content with out 12xp. The game was losing subs because these players, once they got beyond the first few planets, left the game. With 12xp these players hang around and even work up alts. But they would not be playing if the old Vanilla grind was all they had to look forward too because, as you know, they don't generally group.

My feelings exactly!!!

 

OP, relax...if 12xXP bothers you, just wait until you can buy a level 60.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somewhat counter intuitively a lot (maybe even most) of the people who play MMO's these days play solo and are so autistic that the very idea of grouping with other people and indulging in any meaningful form of interaction triggers their school yard PTSD and low level seizures.

 

Yes, the reluctance to group with other anonymous people on the internet certainly could not have anything to do with John Gabriel's GIF Theory, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last time I checked KOTFE is going to remove 12XP and would scale you for content, basically doing what you want there. And it is happening in only 4 weeks.

 

What is the point of that thread?

To ask for something, which is already on a way? To whine?

 

 

I haven't played KOTFE or looked into datamined stuff, I have absolutely no idea of how actual gameplay or 1-55 leveling of this yet-to-be-released expansion is going to work in practice.

 

Do you find it difficult to understand that it could be interesting and useful to have this conversation? That there might be something in this to think about,even if you end up disagreeing? Do you think purpose of them internets forums is just for people to whine or whine about whining?

 

And yes, in case it wasn't sufficiently clear from several parts in OP, I ask for every activity of this game to offer rewards that are, if not equal then at least comparable in scale to XP rewards you get from doing the story.

If KOTFE actually redeems this, that is awesome!!

Edited by Vasflam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last time I checked KOTFE is going to remove 12XP and would scale you for content, basically doing what you want there. And it is happening in only 4 weeks.

 

That is actually not the right interpretation.

While Game Update 4.0 will be removing 12XP, it will at the same time provide major changes to the pre-KotFE game, allowing people to reach level 60 in roughly 30-50 hours. We sadly do not have any information on how it is going to work.

 

Content scaling is a separate matter, and another that we have no information (and according to some, it might not even make it to the game on 4.0 launch due it implementation issues)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great thing about 12xp, I level toons quickly and easily. And I DON'T have to group with people, makes it even better.

 

I don't mind grouping with people, but this mentality of gamers thinking I should be forced to group with you, when people like you who want forced group play are usually:

 

A. elitist jerks who THINK they know everything, but you really *********** don't (got *****ed out in a hm BLACK TALON run for having ONE surge augment on my sniper and the rest were skill)

B. won't let a person who hasn't seen a cutscene in an operation or flashpoint spacebar the **** out of it

C. can solo most content quite easily and one has to be a dullard not to be able to solo things like Black Hole at 60

D. have to wait hours to get a proper group for whatever it is, taking away time we could have used to go dance butt naked on the fleet if we wanted to

E. Tell us or newbs that we/they suck and should learn to play when you aren't all that great at playing yourself

F. want us to make group things like operations a second job, sorry, momma doesn't DO more than one job, thanks

G. have to share loot when maybe I want to be a greedily ***** and keep all the loot for myself

H. seem to think I/we WANT to socialize with people like you

 

I've done forced grouping back in my Everquest 1 days. I couldn't get to the next LOW level without having to sit in a zone or in plane of knowledge, looking for group for HOURS just to have people to help fight GRIND MOBS to go from level 10 to 11, or level 60 to 61.

 

Look, I am ALL for people wanting to group and socialize. I really and truly am. Hell I socialize with my guild all the time but I play solo most times. I don't mind being ABLE to group with people, but if it gets turned into something mandatory and not optional, then you just made the game worthless to me and made it into a second job. If I wanted a second job, I'd go find one where I get paid for it.

 

You only need groups in three things and mostly really only one thing right now. Heroics, Flashpoints, and Operations. That is IT. The class stories are meant to be SOLO. Makeb is meant to be SOLO. Shadow of Revan is meant to be SOLO. Ziost is meant to be SOLO.

 

Why?

 

They are STORIES! Story=solo. I want to chose my OWN adventure in the story, not choose one thing and someone else chooses another thing and completely screws up what **I** wanted in that particular convo decision. I mean this is fine and actually fun in flashpoints. But when my Sith War, Agent, Jedi, whoever is in their story, I'M THE *********** QUEEN OF THE STORY, not you and me.

Edited by Eanelinea
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For a typical Subscriber, 12xXP causes a great deal of harm to any and all meaningful group&social content between 1 and 55.

For typical player, it can remove other players from the picture almost entirely. Average player spends most of his 1-55 by driving from one instance to another while occasionally listening to Jennifer Hale say nice things.

 

GSF, Flashpoints, Planetary Heroics, Warzones.. all these activities have utterly irrelevant reward from doing them, in comparison to 12xXp. Incentive to get involved in these activities is largely gone for many. Besdies the figurative carrot not being there, time to chase it is also missing: Weekend with spacebar is all it takes to get from 1 to 55 now. If you mostly just level one character after another via 12xXP, it is very hard to end up involved in any of the major sub- communities within the game. There just isn't enough in-game time for that. Since leveling is the major beef for huge portion of players..well you figure out just how harmful this is to every social aspect of the game. It is an excellent example of a well loved feature that people embrace and like without realizing or caring what it does to community they, too, belong to.

 

12xXP makes an experience that tears layer after layer of content off players road maps entirely. It leaves you with just a pretty dialogue wheel to spin. It shoehorns people in fashion that makes their overall experience entirely story focused, quite isolated and, frankly, reasonably...dumb.

 

It is extremely ironic how it is Premium and F2P crowd who end up with much more rich, much more varied experience. For them, as collective, levels 1-55 don't just fly by in a single weekend. For them, despite still having far more modest XP reward, GSF, WZs, FPs&etc aren't destined to appear as ridiculously unrewarding waste of time in comparison to 1200% reward of doing storyline. (Yeah. Think about it. One activity in this game gives reward that is one thousand and two hundred percent greater than any other activity. ) No matter how hard you wanna disagree with my claims/observations, I think you have to admit Premium players, as collective, have much easier time ending up with much more varied leveling experience. Game doesn't actively tempt them into utter monotone of one single, often isolated, activity like it does to Subscribers. It takes very little spin to claim premium people actually have much more feature rich game, heh. They are the ones still keeping FP queus, GSF matches, Warzones, etc alive.

 

 

....

PLS READ BELOW TOO!

 

Couple of preemptive remarks&counterpoints usually played when somebody dares to suggest 12xXP isn't coolest thing since sliced bread:

 

Q:But I love 12xXP? I am here for the story and it enabled me to enjoy the story! So 12xXP is great wth??

A: Cause and effect usually differ. It makes perfect sense why BW brought 12xXP. It makes perfect sense why people like it. I'm not personally a fan of it..but neither am I saying it should be moved. It's just that there is absolutely no reason why it should be 1200% more rewarding, in terms of XP given, than rest of the game.

 

Q: Aha! But you can buy an item that disables it! You, Vasflam, don't have to use 12xXp if you don't like! So it looks like your point is moot!

A: It isn't important how quickly or slowly or through which activity I, or any one single player gets his xp. I certainly personally don't care of MY xp. It's just that community is made of collective pile of people. and HUGE portion of this pile will never want to nerf their experience.

 

If the bolded portion is true, what's the point to this thread again? You evidently thought it was important enough to write a wall of text, and then provide a disclaimer that it's not important how any individual levels up. The flaw in your logic here is that a group is made up of individuals, and they're going to play however they want to, no matter what's going on. 1 2 3 go isn't my idea of PvP, and so, I've never set foot into a WZ. This has nothing to do with 12x xp, I've never set foot in a WZ. I'm not a big fan of pugging for FPs or Ops, and so, I don't hit GF as a rule. Yes, I have used it a time or 10, but considering the amount of time I've been playing, saying "I almost never use GF" isn't overstating it much. So 12x xp isn't preventing me from using these functions, I didn't make use of them when there wasn't 12x xp to distract from their existence. I'm sure I'm not unique in that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...