The only problem I've seem with Juggernauts is their lack of reach at low levels, making it easy for DPS to use their knockbacks to keep mobs away from you. This is also problematic for competent DPS, who keep seeing mobs knocked out of the area of effect of ground targeted abilities like Death From Above. It's not a problem with the tanking class, and could be easily solved by making Flashpoint mobs immune to knockback.

That would be awful. As a jugg tank leap --> force push --> leap is one of the only ways I have to quickly pull together spread out groups. (Edit, not to mention one of the most fun things I get to do as a tank.)

It's not a problem with the tanking class

It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players. There are actually parts of the game where the developers have explicitly allowed players to have an easy time clearing trash by just knocking them off the edge. False Emperor is *famous* for this, such that there is actually an area in that that it's best to explicitly tell players to *not* knock enemies off the edge because there is grating in the KB area that often causes enemies to bug out and/or reset.

Knockback is a utility function. Just because some players are idiots and don't understand that it's a utility function rather than their AoE damage ability (I've met so many bad Shadows that think that Force Wave is their AoE damage ability and it just makes me facepalm because Force Wave does such marginal damage while scattering my tightly packed mob) doesn't meant that it's a problem with the game. Making all enemies in FPs immune to KB would just make KB only really useful for PvP, which is just boring; I *like* being able to throw my opponents off of the side of ledges and, when necessary, pushing them around so that they stack up better, not to mention that, from a mechanical standpoint, pulls like Harpoon and Force Pull are identical to pushes (it's just a push in the inverse direction with a cap on the push distance equal to the current distance between the targets).

It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players. There are actually parts of the game where the developers have explicitly allowed players to have an easy time clearing trash by just knocking them off the edge. False Emperor is *famous* for this, such that there is actually an area in that that it's best to explicitly tell players to *not* knock enemies off the edge because there is grating in the KB area that often causes enemies to bug out and/or reset.

 

Knockback is a utility function. Just because some players are idiots and don't understand that it's a utility function rather than their AoE damage ability (I've met so many bad Shadows that think that Force Wave is their AoE damage ability and it just makes me facepalm because Force Wave does such marginal damage while scattering my tightly packed mob) doesn't meant that it's a problem with the game. Making all enemies in FPs immune to KB would just make KB only really useful for PvP, which is just boring; I *like* being able to throw my opponents off of the side of ledges and, when necessary, pushing them around so that they stack up better, not to mention that, from a mechanical standpoint, pulls like Harpoon and Force Pull are identical to pushes (it's just a push in the inverse direction with a cap on the push distance equal to the current distance between the targets).

100% exactly.

Incidentally, one of the frustrating things when I'm on my Commando is

1. Seeing trash head towards the healer

2. I fire off my very expensive morter volley

3. the mobs fall on their backs and start taking damage

4. THEN the healer triggers their knockback pushing them out of range.

Eh?

This even happens in my raid group using vent in HM TfB with people I've played with for months and should really know better.

Seriously? You didn't see the giant explosive charges killing everyone that was surrounding you?

Hah yep. Worst I've seen is knock back right before I do full singularity sweep on a big pull. 30k damage down the drain.

I blame noxxic in part. It lists overload as an aoe DMG ability for every DPS spec for sorc and sin (even tank sin). At least for sorc it says its lower than force storm, but for decep-sin it says overload is top aoe DPS priority. You're better off doingsingle target.