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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

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yeah, i still have 10 levels to go before 55 :( not gonna offer any real feedback until im fully geared and stuff

 

you're doing it wrong. You are suppose to RAGE about how wrong everything is, any idiot can see ... et cetera.

 

Taking time to gather evidence and experience with the new system before stating strong opinions is so passé.

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you're doing it wrong. You are suppose to RAGE about how wrong everything is, any idiot can see ... et cetera.

 

Taking time to gather evidence and experience with the new system before stating strong opinions is so passé.

 

Really? On this forum I figured it had all the appeal of novelty.

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I've been pvp'ing in the 55 bracket. Because there are so many bugs to the bolster system, the question of TTK working properly, etc., etc., it's hard to make a comprehensive review because it's hard to know exactly what's working as intended. However, my assessment is that while the additions of Hold the Line, Kolto bomb, & electro net (which is extremely situational) and Tech Override getting an extra charge, are nice, they in no way compensate for the hit our ability to "DPS" took going on a year ago now and has never recovered from.

 

In a TTK type system, I realize that we are technically considered a hybrid class -- even purely spec'd in gunnery or assault -- because we have access to now three heals and can respect to full heals if we chose. So if that's the case and by design by the developers, then this should also be EXACTLY the case for Sages. I'm currently spec'd gunnery. I got out of an Alderaan WZ where the battle for mid went on for almost the entire match (fun fun :/). I did 181k healing which is pretty high probably thanks to the bolstering and more to the addition of the kolto bomb (mostly to myself... you guys know how that is). There was one DPS Sage there who also managed almost 160k heals, so pretty close to what I did. The difference? While I did 370k damage, he did 820k. Good for him, but *what* is going on with our damage, BW?? With that bad a showing, I know that even a litany of bugs could never account for that Grand Canyon of a gap.

 

http://bit.ly/YZbNzi

 

Overall, even with the additions, DPS commando is still the devs' red headed stepchild and pretty torturous to play in the 55 bracket... and that's even when you aren't spending the whole match getting focused by 2-3 melee classes every time you show your face.

Edited by BoushhDC
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there are so many bugs to the bolster system, the question of TTK working properly, etc., etc., it's hard to make a comprehensive review because it's hard to know exactly what's working as intended.

 

Indeed. And hard to know where things will wind up after any "fixes" are added. But under the present circumstances I think Merc Arsenal is mediocre at best. Can definitely dish out a lot of damage if left unopposed. But not as much as a Sorc. Is still easily shut down by enemies. In particular, a frequent tactic that you will see enemy teams use is to send a low dps team member (a Jugg/Guardian tank is perfect for this) to interdict the Merc Arsenal. There is very little cost to the team to do this and it really suppresses the Merc's output.

 

The other issue for the Merc Arsenal is that it has a hard time finishing. And that's what you want a single target dps to do. A single target dps that attacks one target 3 times and then switches to another target for 3 attacks and then to another is much less effective than simply having an AoE dps class. But the Merc Arsenal really has a hard time finishing a kill unless he has a team mate helping attack the target. That's because the Arsenal can't pursue the target well while still maintaining good dps.

 

Meanwhile you have Merc Bodyguard and Merc Pyro. Bodyguard is clearly the worst of the 3 healing subclasses. And Merc Pyro is hands down the worst subclass in the game for either pvp or pve.

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Tried few 55lvl WZs with my commando and felt kind of joy or something like this. I see astonishment in some operatives faces when they try to escape under my electro net :p Love the Hold the line skill definitely. The only thing we really need now is Bolster shi* fix and all these 10k smash crits as well. Ye, my mando crits about 8k either but i don't like these 2-3 GCDs fights.

Smash zergs rule again. Five smashers each wz is kind of norm now and it sux. Their smashes are even more devastating due to lolster system. Don't see PTs anymore, ---> happy me. :rolleyes:

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Indeed. And hard to know where things will wind up after any "fixes" are added. But under the present circumstances I think Merc Arsenal is mediocre at best. Can definitely dish out a lot of damage if left unopposed. But not as much as a Sorc. Is still easily shut down by enemies. In particular, a frequent tactic that you will see enemy teams use is to send a low dps team member (a Jugg/Guardian tank is perfect for this) to interdict the Merc Arsenal. There is very little cost to the team to do this and it really suppresses the Merc's output.

 

The other issue for the Merc Arsenal is that it has a hard time finishing. And that's what you want a single target dps to do. A single target dps that attacks one target 3 times and then switches to another target for 3 attacks and then to another is much less effective than simply having an AoE dps class. But the Merc Arsenal really has a hard time finishing a kill unless he has a team mate helping attack the target. That's because the Arsenal can't pursue the target well while still maintaining good dps.

 

Meanwhile you have Merc Bodyguard and Merc Pyro. Bodyguard is clearly the worst of the 3 healing subclasses. And Merc Pyro is hands down the worst subclass in the game for either pvp or pve.

 

Pretty well sums it up. I'll also note that since today is the first day of the patch and all the expertise has been removed from my EWH gear and I only have several pieces of the new gear, my damage went down again noticeably. The new stuff they gave us means absolutely squat in such fast fights were we don't have the burst to help ourselves... at all.

Edited by BoushhDC
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to be honest, if you are only pulling 370k damage in a drawn out civil war, youre either guarding or youre bad.

 

i was pulling 500-700k damage frequently on my 40s commando, without Demo Round or Tech Override.

 

on PTS i was doing even more damage, including 1 game where i broke 1mil (granted it was in Assault spec before the nerf, but the damage output was similar).

 

our survivability is up. a lot. our mobility is up. a lot. our group utiltiy is up (off-healing is way easier now).

i think people are really underestimating the change to our armor debuff. before this, it was almost impossible to get the full armor break on a target b/c they notice us after the first tracer missile and then interrupted the proceeding one. now they dont get that option; we only need 1. its much harder for enemies to break up our rotation reliably.

Edited by cashogy_reborn
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based on all the evidence of RWZ? :rolleyes:

 

get real. nobody knows what is good or bad in RWZ yet, b/c nobody is min/max'd, and the majority of people are not even 55 yet.

 

touche,

 

but guilds still seem to be frowning at mercs.

Edited by Bluntron
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to be honest, if you are only pulling 370k damage in a drawn out civil war, youre either guarding or youre bad.

 

i was pulling 500-700k damage frequently on my 40s commando, without Demo Round or Tech Override.

 

on PTS i was doing even more damage, including 1 game where i broke 1mil (granted it was in Assault spec before the nerf, but the damage output was similar).

 

our survivability is up. a lot. our mobility is up. a lot. our group utiltiy is up (off-healing is way easier now).

i think people are really underestimating the change to our armor debuff. before this, it was almost impossible to get the full armor break on a target b/c they notice us after the first tracer missile and then interrupted the proceeding one. now they dont get that option; we only need 1. its much harder for enemies to break up our rotation reliably.

 

youre talking as if you never get focused in your warzones, which means you are going against people who tunnel or you arent well known on your server.

 

I get two three people up the butt anytime I try to get close to the objective (Node, door, BC) So I spend alot of time off healing myself and running around corners and not pumping out dps

 

I just got done doing one of those type of warzones and I pulled out 370k dmg, the only person to do more then me was a sniper he did 480k.

 

On a warzone where I can sit there in one spot and have zero down time in damage I can push 900k but I average out around 680k.

 

I still find arsenal as a plant your feet and pew pew and lot of people run out of range during mid cast, but if I get any closer I get jumped on so its a very positional way to play.

 

Also are we going to push for as much alacity as possible?

Edited by Bluntron
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youre talking as if you never get focused in your warzones, which means you are going against people who tunnel or you arent well known on your server.

 

I get two three people up the butt anytime I try to get close to the objective (Node, door, BC) So I spend alot of time off healing myself and running around corners and not pumping out dps

 

I just got done doing one of those type of warzones and I pulled out 370k dmg, the only person to do more then me was a sniper he did 480k.

 

On a warzone where I can sit there in one spot and have zero down time in damage I can push 900k but I average out around 680k.

 

I still find arsenal as a plant your feet and pew pew and lot of people run out of range during mid cast, but if I get any closer I get jumped on so its a very positional way to play.

 

Also are we going to push for as much alacity as possible?

 

i get focused often and LoS and heal myself up plenty. but i avoid putting myself in situations where i am the prime target. i also avoid running off solo; when i get 2, 3 or more people trying to kill me and there are no teammates around i dont even try to escape, it just wastes time.

arsenal/gunny is still somewhat a "plant your feet" type class, but its much more "hit and run" than before. it has almost the same amount of mobility as merc pyro did.

 

and stay away from alacrity in PvP. biggest waste of stat ever.

 

touche,

 

but guilds still seem to be frowning at mercs.

 

they can frown all they want. doesnt change the facts

Edited by cashogy_reborn
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i get focused often and LoS and heal myself up plenty. but i avoid putting myself in situations where i am the prime target. i also avoid running off solo; when i get 2, 3 or more people trying to kill me and there are no teammates around i dont even try to escape, it just wastes time.

arsenal/gunny is still somewhat a "plant your feet" type class, but its much more "hit and run" than before. it has almost the same amount of mobility as merc pyro did.

 

and stay away from alacrity in PvP. biggest waste of stat ever.

 

 

 

they can frown all they want. doesnt change the facts

 

Good to know.

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I'm hoping to be viable in RWZs. But the thing is, there is no way anyone can possibly know for another couple weeks.

 

-Up until today, all 55 PvP was non-legit anyways with the bolster issues.

 

-Its going to take the hardcore Mercs another couple weeks to finish grinding the Conqueror gear.

 

-Its going to take another month for the rest of the server to settle in at 55

 

THEN....once its geared people vs geared people in unranked warzones, at that point we will be able to assess Mercs. But up until that point, its speculation. I will say that I'm actually very happy with the changes.

 

I put up my highest (as a Merc) damage total ever last night but I refuse to believe its because of the changes. I think its more to do with the fact that I had maxed+ comms and have a nice gear head start on most people.

 

One random observation....I find that I can escape way more easily against 1 or 2 opponents. Melee toons can't keep me snared or rooted anymore. BUT...when focused by 3 or more ppl, I melt in a much much shorter time frame then pre-2.0

 

Also, Kolto Overload sucks. My main disappointment of the changes. (2nd would be sweeping blasters ninja nerf)

Edited by DarthBloodloss
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they can frown all they want. doesn't change the facts

 

Exactly. If the class actually is on par with other valued classes all it will take is for one highly skilled mando/merc on a good team to change that opinion.

 

Of course it is possible that the class is still weak compared to others, in which case the not yet collected evidence will justify their prejudice.

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Honestly I'm amazed how much better we are under focus fire than we have been. Had a mara who would not leave me alone in a voidstar last night. Before that would have spelled the end for me anytime I showed my face. Between kolto bomb, hold the line, and overpowered scoundrel healing though, he just couldn't finish.

 

Now OUR inability to finish is well noted. It mostly stems from the drastically lower crit rate in 2.0. With current damage numbers and 1.7 crit rates we'd be murdering people going through a full rotation. Now? Not so much sadly.

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Once you have Partisan/Conqueror, is it worth giving up expertise on two armorings in order to pick up the 2-set PvE bonus (+15% crit to Tracer Missile/Grav Round). I can not live without that set bonus, especially given the reduced effectiveness of crit rating.
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Once you have Partisan/Conqueror, is it worth giving up expertise on two armorings in order to pick up the 2-set PvE bonus (+15% crit to Tracer Missile/Grav Round). I can not live without that set bonus, especially given the reduced effectiveness of crit rating.

 

Better to replace them entirely with PVE pieces instead of armorings. New bolster does NOT like it when you mix and match mods with expertise and mods without expertise. For example: Using a PVE weapon and putting in an expertise weapon will actually cause you to lose expertise.

 

My guess is a completely PVE piece will have more bolstered expertise than a mixed piece. I'd probably go with dread guard for best results if you just HAVE to have that set bonus.

 

On the other hand, the overall loss may not be worth it anymore at all period.

Edited by ArchangelLBC
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Better to replace them entirely with PVE pieces instead of armorings. New bolster does NOT like it when you mix and match mods with expertise and mods without expertise. For example: Using a PVE weapon and putting in an expertise weapon will actually cause you to lose expertise.

 

Isn't the BW position that this is a bug and will be fixed eventually?

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No, its intended design. Before bolstering, it checks if its a PvP or PvE item. So with 2 PvP pieces and 1 PvE piece, it is being counted as PvP gear and receives no bolster. (So you lose expertise for the armoring)

 

But if all 3 parts were PvE, the entire piece would be flagged as PvE and all 3 slots will receive bolster.

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No, its intended design. Before bolstering, it checks if its a PvP or PvE item. So with 2 PvP pieces and 1 PvE piece, it is being counted as PvP gear and receives no bolster. (So you lose expertise for the armoring)

 

But if all 3 parts were PvE, the entire piece would be flagged as PvE and all 3 slots will receive bolster.

 

Pretty much this. I suspect their issue resolving this is what led them to just removing expertise from war hero gear altogether.

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