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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)


Daemonson

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So is it possible to avoid repair bills by just jumping off cliffs right before the mob/boss kills you?

 

I believe they have some check in for combat in recent seconds, as i've gotten repair costs after soloing EoT and jumping down the pit to just spawn back at quest start

 

(tested it by summoning repairing at portable repair droid first then jumping to death)

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Was the 0 repair death due to a fall or something the game could have seen as a fall?

 

No, definitely not was at one of the pylons... at first I thought it was due to being hit by a red flag'ed companion in the same area (that area is horrible due to everyone being flagged from the other quests and rampant aoes and tab target mistakes...) but then I realized that PvP deaths in the area cost repair costs. So wasn't that.

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There is a difference between adapting to a change in mechanics or adapting to a difficult challenge then adapting to an arbitrary cost whose increase provides no increase in difficulty only increase in overhead.

 

For example if there were now a tax each time you started an operation of 300k credits you bet everyone would be in arms about it and rightfully so. Doesn't mean I won't just pay it and move on with my life, but it is just a bad design decision.

 

Repair costs are in every MMO and are expected. What you proposed there is just rediculous lol.

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I believe they have some check in for combat in recent seconds, as i've gotten repair costs after soloing EoT and jumping down the pit to just spawn back at quest start

 

(tested it by summoning repairing at portable repair droid first then jumping to death)

 

Depends on boss... for example charging TFB and getting sucked up into the gate incurs 0 repair costs.

 

However keep in mind that any damage even not death incurs some repair costs so could have been damage you already incurred before jumping to death.

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Repair costs are in every MMO and are expected. What you proposed there is just rediculous lol.

 

I was using it as an illustration. The key here is the increase in costs seems to have no function except as a side effect of a code fix. If it were for economics, fine... if it were for any other reason fine... but in this case it was arbitrary and untested.

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So when you run a new fp or op you don't have to adapt to the mechanics?

 

Oh you must just never do that since you don't want to adapt to a thing, or if you do, you're that guy that stands in fire and goes Y AM I DIEING Y IS HEALER NOT HEALING ME, SO NOOB

 

What do you do when your class gets nerfed? you have to adapt to that, do you just stop playing?

 

So n00b healers never going to be good healers, all going to be dps, and you not play anymore, baka, gameplay is not the same as game fun, so far was nice until this fix, so, no, i don't "adapt" to a frustrating game, for that I have demond souls or dark slouls, an mmo is a game to learn, to evolve, no a game for 15 years old "**** all" people like you, you cannot do a hard fp or op alone, belive me, even n00bs are good when you have 3 hours waiting for an op.

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If there is a bug and if the costs are higher then intended, that's fine, they can fix it. However if these costs are what they intended, then they are what they intended and people just need to adapt to it

This is the issue for at least some of us -- we don't even know if the costs are as intended, and given the bizarre disparity in effect*, it's somewhat difficult to believe it is.

 

A dev post with some math, like we used to occasionally get in the class forums, would be awesome right about now.

 

*Are some of the numbers being exaggerated or simply falsely remembered? I'm sure they are. But I trust my guildies, and I expect you do as well, to comment as accurately as they can on the matter, and what we're seeing is peculiar.

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There is a difference between adapting to a change in mechanics or adapting to a difficult challenge then adapting to an arbitrary cost whose increase provides no increase in difficulty only increase in overhead.

 

For example if there were now a tax each time you started an operation of 300k credits you bet everyone would be in arms about it and rightfully so. Doesn't mean I won't just pay it and move on with my life, but it is just a bad design decision.

 

Fairly ridiculous example, and you do say you'd just adapt to it.

 

I honestly just don't see why this is such a big deal, there are plenty of ways to get money to cover the repair costs, whether it be dailies, crafting, or selling resources, or more. People didn't really need to do these before because often the runs would cover any costs.

 

The casuals seem to be the one ************ the most about this, which, to me, seems like it should be hurting them the least.

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Several things have become abundantly clear in this thread...

 

1) the only people who seem to be for this change are a bunch of ultra-elitists folks from world/server first guilds, and there are only a handful of them who are very vocal

2) those same people are by their own admission trolling because apparently they have nothing better to do

3) these same people also have no potential financial issues by virtue of their playstyle and guild

4) the vast majority of the posters between all the threads on this subject are extremely displeased with the change and there are people voting with their wallets, and those in that displeased majority run the gamut from server/world first progression players who also have no financial issues but see the negative impact, to those more casual players who will have a significant gameplay impact due to this change

5) there are guilds who have suspended raiding (including my own by request of my guildmates, I wanted to continue but was outvoted)

6) BW doesn't seem to care because they refuse to say anything on the subject

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Fairly ridiculous example, and you do say you'd just adapt to it.

 

I honestly just don't see why this is such a big deal, there are plenty of ways to get money to cover the repair costs, whether it be dailies, crafting, or selling resources, or more. People didn't really need to do these before because often the runs would cover any costs.

 

The casuals seem to be the one ************ the most about this, which, to me, seems like it should be hurting them the least.

 

Casuals are the ones who don't have the time to grind anything (crafting, dailies, whatever) to make the credits to cover the 3-10x increase in repair costs they incur doing what they play the game for. Hurts casuals the MOST, not the least.

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So n00b healers never going to be good healers, all going to be dps, and you not play anymore, baka, gameplay is not the same as game fun, so far was nice until this fix, so, no, i don't "adapt" to a frustrating game, for that I have demond souls or dark slouls, an mmo is a game to learn, to evolve, no a game for 15 years old "**** all" people like you, you cannot do a hard fp or op alone, belive me, even n00bs are good when you have 3 hours waiting for an op.

 

I wasn't saying that noob healers will never be good healers, you said you don't want to adapt to anything, that would mean that you wouldn't change your play based on the mechanics present in a flashpoint or op.

 

I was asking if you were one of those terrible dps that stand in fire and blame the healer for not being able to heal through it, since you said you don't want to adapt to anything in a video game.

 

Also why did you have to go insult me? all i did was ask a legitimate question, I don't think that warranted you calling me stupid

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Several things have become abundantly clear in this thread...

 

1) the only people who seem to be for this change are a bunch of ultra-elitists folks from world/server first guilds, and there are only a handful of them who are very vocal

2) those same people are by their own admission trolling because apparently they have nothing better to do

3) these same people also have no potential financial issues by virtue of their playstyle and guild

4) the vast majority of the posters between all the threads on this subject are extremely displeased with the change and there are people voting with their wallets, and those in that displeased majority run the gamut from server/world first progression players who also have no financial issues but see the negative impact, to those more casual players who will have a significant gameplay impact due to this change

5) there are guilds who have suspended raiding (including my own by request of my guildmates, I wanted to continue but was outvoted)

6) BW doesn't seem to care because they refuse to say anything on the subject

 

Agreed with all points except #6. Keep in mind this patch was released on Tuesday... in software development like this it takes at least a week to scratch one's ***... It doesn't surprise me they don't have a response yet, they are probably still trying to figure out what (if anything) went wrong and figuring out the best way to fix it.

 

Mechanics discussion aside, I anticipate this will be fixed within a month, but yea... it shouldn't have happened in the first place... that is why they need to test these things /before/ releaseing them. not just QA patch notes, but look at the greater implications.

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Casuals are the ones who don't have the time to grind anything (crafting, dailies, whatever) to make the credits to cover the 3-10x increase in repair costs they incur doing what they play the game for. Hurts casuals the MOST, not the least.

 

I also suspect that the money you make from crafting and selling mats on the GTN is about to dry up, if the purpose of this is to be a credit sink and deflationary tool. Less credits in the system mean much lower GTN prices. Market crash! :)

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Agreed with all points except #6. Keep in mind this patch was released on Tuesday... in software development like this it takes at least a week to scratch one's ***... It doesn't surprise me they don't have a response yet, they are probably still trying to figure out what (if anything) went wrong and figuring out the best way to fix it.

 

Mechanics discussion aside, I anticipate this will be fixed within a month, but yea... it shouldn't have happened in the first place... that is why they need to test these things /before/ releaseing them. not just QA patch notes, but look at the greater implications.

 

Yet somehow they managed to deploy a patch TODAY that attempted to fix something else that they broke TUESDAY...

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hope i dont a infraction or banned but i wont be responsing to this guy in game or will i name him. he know who he is.

 

to the person who pm my trooper this afternoon. you might want to reread my post this thread i couldnt find it to quote for you. i said i could see it being a bug. not that i agree with the fix. as for the rest of you said to me. im letting slide i know alot people are upset. but next time ill report you for abuse. to everyone else sorry just felt the neede to address this here. being the pm was over a post i made here

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Yet somehow they managed to deploy a patch TODAY that attempted to fix something else that they broke TUESDAY...

ಠ_ಠ

 

They could very easily be still investigating this and discussing it internally. They could be finding out what the bug was or if there is a bug. They could be discussing what the target repair cost range is. Unless you're a fly on a wall at bioware, you do NOT know how they are responding to this right now.

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I wasn't saying that noob healers will never be good healers, you said you don't want to adapt to anything, that would mean that you wouldn't change your play based on the mechanics present in a flashpoint or op.

 

I was asking if you were one of those terrible dps that stand in fire and blame the healer for not being able to heal through it, since you said you don't want to adapt to anything in a video game.

 

Also why did you have to go insult me? all i did was ask a legitimate question, I don't think that warranted you calling me stupid

 

Getting out of the fire and grinding for several hours per week so you afford a few chances to get out of the fire are two entirely different modes of adaptation with entirely different resource requirements...

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Yet somehow they managed to deploy a patch TODAY that attempted to fix something else that they broke TUESDAY...

 

What else did it break? j/k

 

The fix they did today in terms of design is relatively easy... i.e. just set everyone's unlocks on that item to none. No side effects since no one would have had a chance to unlock it before and it was a new feature. So less ramifications/testing.

 

This one it is not as simple as just reversing it as it is (as others have pointed out) actually a fix to something. Rolling it back isn't an option so what do you do... in my previous example I said half all the costs. While that is good on paper and as a spitballed idea, does that actually balance out the economy or is it too far. Hence why something like this takes more time and should have taken more time in the case of this fix. I.E. they should have taken quite a bit more care before doing this fix.,

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ಠ_ಠ

 

They could very easily be still investigating this and discussing it internally. They could be finding out what the bug was or if there is a bug. They could be discussing what the target repair cost range is. Unless you're a fly on a wall at bioware, you do NOT know how they are responding to this right now.

 

 

"Hi. We've read this thread and we understand the community is interested in a response to this issue. We are evaluating our telemetry data and will respond with an answer soon."

 

They've done that for other issues. They haven't done that for this one yet.

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Getting out of the fire and grinding for several hours per week so you afford a few chances to get out of the fire are two entirely different modes of adaptation with entirely different resource requirements...

 

yet both require you to adapt to a change, which is my point, he said he doesn't want to adapt to anything, i'm saying you have to adapt to things in game whether you like it or not

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Casuals are the ones who don't have the time to grind anything (crafting, dailies, whatever) to make the credits to cover the 3-10x increase in repair costs they incur doing what they play the game for. Hurts casuals the MOST, not the least.

 

As I said before I make 100k off of terenthium in an hour. If that isn't casual then I don't know what is. And that's sending 2 companions, so you still have 4. And you can be doing what you want at the same time. No grind. Easy money. Win/win.

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Yes.

 

 

No. Because that's actually what has happened here. Forget whether this was a bug or not. Look at the results. Previously, it cost more to repair unmodded gear than modded gear. So they raised the cost to repair modded gear. And I'm not in favor of this.

 

 

And yes, lol. Essentially. Whether this is a bug or not, you need to look at the results. The results of lower repair costs for modded gear in 1.2 were positive. The fact that unmodded gear did not benefit from this change should be adjusted.

 

Why am I not surprised? I'm seeing more and more of that kind of entitled attitude everyday. Do you understand how illogical is it for anyone to ask for some bugs to be fixed but others to be ignored or embraced?

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Agreed with all points except #6. Keep in mind this patch was released on Tuesday... in software development like this it takes at least a week to scratch one's ***... It doesn't surprise me they don't have a response yet, they are probably still trying to figure out what (if anything) went wrong and figuring out the best way to fix it.

 

Mechanics discussion aside, I anticipate this will be fixed within a month, but yea... it shouldn't have happened in the first place... that is why they need to test these things /before/ releaseing them. not just QA patch notes, but look at the greater implications.

 

I don't calling you anithing, you are elitist, and that's obvious, and no, I'm a fully survival dps command and full 65 vanguard tank, with average of surival of 98% and we get so many n00b healers, dps, and also last night we teach a tank how to deal with Soa, we help and we protect them and teach them how to do it, but with 160, 200k of repairs in 65 armor, that's not going to happend, in only 3 Op the guild lost 3kk and some of the more support players are cancelling and leaving the game, so you are alone, simple fact, the thing is: if bio/ea don't ifx this, next month you going to play with your shadow.

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yet both require you to adapt to a change, which is my point, he said he doesn't want to adapt to anything, i'm saying you have to adapt to things in game whether you like it or not

 

No, you don't. Your other option is leaving the game.

 

The last time I saw so many posts about leaving, the game crashed pretty quickly from ~1.7M to... way less than that.

 

It's a good game. It's unfortunate that so many people who play it have now stopped doing what they enjoy or left altogether over a change that should be stupidly simple to fix. I'm sure if EA came in and said, "we'll put it back, but we can't do it until X date for Y reason", that would be enough for a lot of people. Heck, even if they say they're looking at it... Or even a screw you guys it's not changing... anything.

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Why am I not surprised? I'm seeing more and more of that kind of entitled attitude everyday. Do you understand how illogical is it for anyone to ask for some bugs to be fixed but others to be ignored or embraced?

Ah, "entitled." I wondered when that word would join us. I'd been quite impressed with the posters thus far in avoiding the cliche of it.

 

It is not illogical to ask for bugs to be embraced IF THE RESULTS OF THE BUG ARE POSITIVE. Contrarily, it would be ILLOGICAL to say "why hello bug, I know the results of fixing you will suck, but you're a bug and therefore you must be squashed." That bug may have started out as unintended, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be delibrately kept.

 

Besides all that nonsense, in this case I don't think they should roll back the bug because that wouldn't help people who are using unmodded gear. They should, instead, reduce the repair costs across the board to the level moddable gear had before.

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