Umm, I'm reasonably sure quite a few do. Sorcerer Whirlwind, for example, or Merc's Concussive Missile. Once you do it, you can't do jack to them for a while. Bar goes from zero to full instantly. They trinket it, and you're SOL. From what I hear, so does Jarring Strike.

All the openers from Stealth I've seen, award a full Resolve bar. However the immunity doesn't kick in until after the CC is over.

lol well by all means, lets balance the classes based on 1v1 situations from the top 10% of players in only the PvP aspect of the game. Be serious man.

 

Btw.. Op opens on me, I trinket out and DoT, they do their equivalent of Force Cloak and Vanish, I put up my Bubble, they open again and lose the majority of their burst on my bubble, I now DoT, CC, and kill.

 

PvP is Chess, not Checkers.

or they wait for your bubble to expire, open and cy@ goober

Can anyone actually get it on video? Operative does Hidden Strike, knocking you down. You spam trinket and nothing happens?

Because what I'm concerned about is this - maybe trinket DOES break the knockdown, but the ANIMATION isn't showing it properly.

This actually happens with Operative's knife attacks (Shiv, Backstab, etc.), you hit the button and damage happens and only THEN the animation plays. Long after the damage is done.

Try doing this - duel an Operative, and you be a Sorcerer, for example, with talented Whirlwind (makes it instant cast). Have him knock you down, hit trinket, and hit Whirlwind. See if that works. DO IT ON VIDEO.

It'll settle the whole debate once and for all.

a good stealther does not care about your dots. with resilience.. i just force cloak and pop it.. removes all dots and solidifies my insta stealth. but yea.. keep dotting bad stealthers... this thread however is in no way directed at them.

I was wondering when somebody was going to point this out. Not that a stealther doesn't have a chance of getting an opener off between DoT ticks after a vanish anyway, but whatever

trinket the sap and dot him before he vanishes

I do something similar to anyone I see stealthing in warfronts

I have Corrosive Dart on my IA and Explosive Dart on my BH. It's pretty funny watching someone stealth then explode...

All the openers from Stealth I've seen, award a full Resolve bar. However the immunity doesn't kick in until after the CC is over.

Well, d'oy. What would be the point of CC if it filled the resolve bar AND the resolve effect applied immediately?

So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

champion geared player maybe.... or lucky cause those are crit hit values there.....

acid blase has a 50% armor pen. so we can eat most heavy armor. but sounds like that guy was a beast man! i cant cound how many times i been pulled out of smoke screen.

So you were CC'd from stealth and did not pop your break . . .

You cant cc break knockdowns. Is everyone's reading comprehension that bad?

Sleep Dart is a knockdown?

Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else. If you target them while they are uncloaked, you mince them.

 

They are nowhere NEAR the gods of PVP. Go and actually PVP. Every class has something that seems overpowered. Every. One.

bingo!

after our stun and major burst dmg we got zip... overload shot and dot ticking on you but thats it..... if that burst doesnt kill you or get you close to death its best for us to smoke screen out ***** out and try again....

I have never seen Scoundrel on top of damage list in warzones. I see countless hordes of lightning spamming nub sorcerers dominating the boards along with bounty hunters.

If you complain about scoundrel's burst, what -in your opinnion - would be a single reason to play this class in pvp? And what buffs you suggest to catch up with ranged classes who outdamage AND outheal scoundrels by double?

I am just curious. And to the tank who cant live he was ganked by 2 scoundrels: you rolled your character on wrong server, and perhaps wrong game. Personally I am glad turtles are not pvp kings.

I have never seen Scoundrel on top of damage list in warzones. I see countless hordes of lightning spamming nub sorcerers dominating the boards along with bounty hunters.

 

If you complain about scoundrel's burst, what -in your opinnion - would be a single reason to play this class in pvp? And what buffs you suggest to catch up with ranged classes who outdamage AND outheal scoundrels by double?

 

I am just curious. And to the tank who cant live he was ganked by 2 scoundrels: you rolled your character on wrong server, and perhaps wrong game. Personally I am glad turtles are not pvp kings.

if you haven't seen a scoundrel/op top the boards.. consider yourself lucky as your server is likely filled with pve carebears that like myself rolled lore characters that are pvp pathetic.

give it time though... you'll see these toons soon enough...they were probably the most un-popular character selection from launch.. but that will change very quickly. I plan to help the cause tonight. roflstomping someone before they get up from a KD is delicious...

This is one of those same old knee-jerk reactions people have in every mmo once they get owned by a class especially when its a stealth class because they get caught by surprise and are not able to recover or adapt in a 1 vs. 1 situation.

Listen....every single fight is not going to be a fair fight in a bubble with 1 guy versus another guy. This is not SWTOR the duel simulator.

If you and a buddy are getting owned by one Scoundrel...and this is taking into consideration you are all the same level and close gear wise...then Im sorry...your at fault not the Scoundrel that knows how to play. They dont have 10 stuns on 2 second cooldowns. They have a mezz (that can be cc broke and dmg broke)...they have a flash grenade that is 8 sec but is broke instantly on damage or cc....then they have a couple like 3 second stuns like the crotch kick.

If between you and a buddy neither of you can click the break cc button and then use a cc and a dot of some sort on him...Im sorry. I know friends who are smart when they see one they use dot's on them first then save aoe attacks to instantly use when they try to combat stealth which pops them out. Its callled ADAPTING.

Hate will always come though for any stealth class because people hate to be hit first and then have to be adaptive to recover. Me personally I hare Bounty Hunters. I constantly get owned by them in pvp and they have so many attack chains its insane. You dont see me come in here after a couple encounters though starting a thread to nerf them.

You dont catch a scoundrel not stealthed if they dont want you too. And if you do, they vanish and open on you, and as we all know, then you die.

Eh I can beat em with them getting the opening you just can't take the first stun, the second they do their opener you gotta be fast on the trinket ability, followed immediately by a stun of yours and a DoT. Once you accomplish those 3 things I promise you they are cake to kill. You simply can't take the stun and lay there like a slug giving them the free hits you have to be fast with the trinket and immediately stun and dot them. Once you have done that all you gotta do is keep them from getting to your back, no different that fighting an assassin/shadow. If you are bad at melee strafing thats on you not the class.

So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

 

At this point im thinking surely he cannot do the same thing to me, he just did to the other guy 8 seconds ago. Boy was I wrong.

 

STUN

4.7k

3.8k

3.0k

STUN OVER

 

At this point I have about 10% of my hp left and the fight is over. He just creamed the both of us in less than 20 seconds and hes still got 90% hp left.

 

 

And tbh this is not the only time I've witnessed these scenarios with scoundrels completely destroying people in a single stun. This needs to be addressed immediatly.

Omg omg jedies are so OP "Insert random whine" omg omg, this must be adressed.

Eh I can beat em with them getting the opening you just can't take the first stun, the second they do their opener you gotta be fast on the trinket ability, followed immediately by a stun of yours and a DoT. Once you accomplish those 3 things I promise you they are cake to kill. You simply can't take the stun and lay there like a slug giving them the free hits you have to be fast with the trinket and immediately stun and dot them. Once you have done that all you gotta do is keep them from getting to your back, no different that fighting an assassin/shadow. If you are bad at melee strafing thats on you not the class.

first - the trinket doesn't work on the knockdown opener..

second - even if it did.. he has definitely hit you for 5-8K..

third - in your brilliant world you stun him and then dot him...

fourth - he pops cc break.. avoidance training... force cloak/vanish...

fifth - you pray... and

sixth - he reopens and you die.

again.. i'm not talking about crappy stealthers here. I'm talking good players that have a clue what they are doing. the alpha strike is beyond crazy... the pre-loaded stealthed armor pen dot.. is crazy... and your delusions that you can brilliantly avoid it all is also... you guessed it... crazy.

by the way.. the real script on how this plays out..

one - op opens on you for 6k dmg. you crap your pants and hit trinket.. it does nothing.. you rage..

two - he stabs you 2-3 more times while you stare at granite unable to even hit a health pot

three - you hit respawn

first - the trinket doesn't work on the knockdown opener..

 

second - even if it did.. he has definitely hit you for 5-8K..

 

third - in your brilliant world you stun him and then dot him...

 

fourth - he pops cc break.. avoidance training... force cloak/vanish...

 

fifth - you pray... and

 

sixth - he reopens and you die.

 

again.. i'm not talking about crappy stealthers here. I'm talking good players that have a clue what they are doing. the alpha strike is beyond crazy... the pre-loaded stealthed armor pen dot.. is crazy... and your delusions that you can brilliantly avoid it all is also... you guessed it... crazy.

 

by the way.. the real script on how this plays out..

 

one - op opens on you for 6k dmg. you crap your pants and hit trinket.. it does nothing.. you rage..

 

two - he stabs you 2-3 more times while you stare at granite unable to even hit a health pot

 

three - you hit respawn

Noone cares about your lousy tactics.

Protip : L2P

if you haven't seen a scoundrel/op top the boards.. consider yourself lucky as your server is likely filled with pve carebears that like myself rolled lore characters that are pvp pathetic.

I'm very tempted to say "No, you!" Aww, heck, I'll just go ahead and say it. No, you!

Realize that as an Operative you HAVE to climb to the top of the damage chart by being A) in melee range and B) doing single target damage and C) having almost zero AoE. This is HARD.

I can get your screenshots of Juggernauts doing 30k+ damage IN ONE ATTACK, just because it's an AoE. All he needs to do is leap into the thick of it and press one button. Ka-Boom!

Sure, an Operative can pop out and drop one guy in 5 seconds. Guess what? A BH spamming AoE has done 3-4x that much damage just because the attacks he used were AoEs, and he did them from range without having to travel to and from target in stealth.

Another fun fact - Operative needs to travel to target in stealth. You move slower in stealth. More travel time. Less damage. Meanwhile a Sorcerer is standing up high on the platform and dropping Death Fieldss and chain lightnings out on people. Heck, take Affliction, it's an instant DoT, no cooldown, does about 3k-4k damage over 18 seconds? Just put one on every enemy in a 30 meter radius, and watch that damage counter go.

One thing I will grant you - an Operative can put the damage into a focal point where it matters. He can jump and kill a ball carrier, for example. Or a single guard at a turret. But those AoE-capable classes can create a health deficit that no healer can hope to recover from.

Hardest I have ever been hit was by a maul spam spec assassin. I was killed in two hits, aka 2 global cooldowns. Granted it was adrenal (3 minutes), warzone buff, trinket (which is the same thing you see when you post these numbers from ops/smugglers).

Other classes burst just as hard and doesn't require an opener from stealth to do so.

Stealth counters ranged. Ranged counters melee. Stealth gets bent over when caught out of stealth. Without stealth nothing would be keeping range in checked.

If stealth is whining about ranged? They are idiots. If you are whining about stealth as ranged? You are just as big an idiot. They are the only thing keeping ranged in check.

Guardians/Juggernauts can put out more pressure against a well played team in group combat then a scoundrel/op. Op's are simply good at killing healers with no tank guard on them, who stand away from their group like idiots. The "rogue class" in every game has been good at that. This isn't exactly groundbreaking...

CC is the real problem. Give CC immunities, so you don't break one then walk straight into another, and people aren't going to be so helpless when getting stealthed.

Its true that a stealth caught out is an easy kill, but being killed without being able to do anything about it is boring as f***. I don't much care if the runt gets himself killed after he has killed me.

Tweak their burst down a bit, their sustained damage and survivability up a bit. Thats not limited to OP/Scoundrel, its a good rule for PVP in general.

Uhm, do you already have some Expertise? In WoW it was pretty much the same. Heavy Burst Classes are amazing before everyone had 20%-25% Resilience and some HP.

Scoundrels/Operatives do more damage then snipers/gunslingers.

Have Stealth

Have More Armor. (4% Damage Reduction.)

Have More Movement Speed. (15% forever.)

And do not have to be in cover 99.7% of the time.

The only problem with it is Sniper/Gunslinger just suck comparably.

Oh And by the way, Resilience IS way better then expertise, most people only have 200 expertise atm, and thats only 2.5% extra damage/lower damage taken, in WoW having that much would be like having 30% more damage/lower damage taken.

Expertise DOES NOT make you win or lose a fight.

CC is the real problem. Give CC immunities, so you don't break one then walk straight into another, and people aren't going to be so helpless when getting stealthed.

 

Its true that a stealth caught out is an easy kill, but being killed without being able to do anything about it is boring as f***. I don't much care if the runt gets himself killed after he has killed me.

 

Tweak their burst down a bit, their sustained damage and survivability up a bit. Thats not limited to OP/Scoundrel, its a good rule for PVP in general.

Form a premade, use guard. Powertechs/Juggernauts/Marauders/Assassins and healers (and their mirrors) crap on everyone in this game. A scoundrel/operative can't do jack to this team. All the best premades I faced stacked those classes. Not dmg Sorcerers, heal sorcerers. Not damage operatives, heal operatives.

Melee/warrior class has ALWAYS been dependent on heals in MMO's. Proof? See the entire MMO genre. Add to this, assassins are far better in a premade with heals then operatives, because they are much better out of stealth with a spam maul spec and they give the team another guard and taunts which takes away all burst damage from the scoundrel/operative.

This game is designed around team play. If you aren't playing with a team and you are complaining about burst that simply doesn't happen or can NOT instagib players on a properly played TEAM? You are making a baseless complaint.

You don't nerf a class due to pug vs pug and then make them completely useless in team play... If you do? Then you made a entire AC pointless. All the scoundrels/ops will just reroll marauder/sentinel and give their team a damage buff, a mortal strike, a speed buff, and not be completely handcuffed in huttball on a scoundrel/op. Charge > having no way to get back up to a platform and having to shoot your pistol/sniper rifle for 500 dmg.