QGJ was mistaken, and or misinformed.

No, he wasn't. He said exactly what the "retcon" said: midichlorians are an effect of the Force; they are not the cause of it.

This in no way invalidates either Ben's or Yoda's explanations of the Force in the OT. One must remember that the Force was widely known in the time of the prequels. Jedi were numerous. The Empire rewrote history when it took control of the Republic. Jedi became criminals and outcasts, and their source of power became a myth. That's why Luke had no idea what the Force was.

So, rather than go into what little scientific information they actually had obtained regarding the Force, he came up with a quick, easy explanation for it. Besides, Obi-Wan never struck me as the scientific type.

Midichlorians were just a tool used to determine force sensitivity. No more, no less. They're no more the reason the Force exists than is the spot in Leia's mind that nearly knocked Luke out of his chair when he pushed on it. Both are just ways to observe the Force.

I remember Lucas saying that was one of his biggest mistakes with Star Wars. The "rule of two" was also one.

And he didnt mention Jar Jar? Or Episode I entirely? Or all the prequels?^^ Or Aliens in Indiana Jo... oh thats not star wars...

However.... If we TRY to get some sense into that Modochlorians-issue I'd say they are more kind of harmless parasites that simply "sense" the force and feel confortable close to high concentrations... like some life forms like it where its warm, others where its wet and Midichlorians like it in force-intense bodys^^

That would simply turn them into a side effect, not causing the force or such, but a "usefull tool" to identify force sensitive people.

I don't know if you've read this, might help shed some light on the matter.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Midi-chlorian

see with the originals I think it left it to the point where no one really needed it explained... I think that was part of the charm which is ironic cause I get pissed when things arn't. As they put the Force is within everything and you can hear it if you open yourself to it.

Most people just remained closeminded as it's like trying to move a Tail you don't have...

There is a simple solution to this: There is no prequel trilogy. TOR is the real prequel.

while midichlorians are not mentioned in game they are mentioned in the related novels (Red harvest)

Jedi/Force = Religion

Empire = The third reich

 

Makes perfect sense .

i dont know why but i laughed like hell at this

The midichlorians idea was made after the first three movies. It was like a new thing for episodes 1, 2 and 3. Or so I heard.

I like the idea that the Force is not just magic but has a physical component. However, the Force is still something mystical and misterious, because midichlorians only allow to "sense" the Force, they don't generate it or something like that. The force is still a misterious energy that exists in the galaxy.

Now, I understand that in the film the midichlorians were actually meant to BE the Force. I.e. they actually caused Force sensitivity. My understanding is that this IS what Lucas originally meant.

 

However, just about every other person realized how insane this was and retconned it. I follow the retcon which makes PERFECT SENSE.

 

 

 

Basically, midichlorians are sort of like crayfish. You see, crayfish live only in clean water. They do not cause water to be clean; you couldn't toss a bunch of crayfish into a polluted lake and it would become pristine. They simply only live in clean water, so if you find crayfish in a lake or stream you know the water is clean. They are indicators.

 

Midichlorians are like crayfish; they are indicators. They show that a particular individual has high Force sensitivity. Oh they grow in every person, but they need high levels of Force sensitivity to really propagate and reach high numbers. So what; Anakin had a level of over 20,000? An average Jedi would probably have something like 5-10 thousand, while a non-Force sensitive would have more like a few hundred or, at most 1,000.

 

This provides a logical way of determine who was Force sensitive (thus explaining how the Order found new Jedi hopefuls) while still keeping the mysticism of the Force alive. What is it? Well we still don't know, but at least we can kinda measure it indirectly.

 

 

 

I realize this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know what he was thinking, but probably he thought this was a really great idea that the fans would love. The problem is no one challenged him on it so he figured it must be a great idea and stayed with it.

Thank you for this! I feel much better now, having read this.

I know where this came from and I find it irritating as hell.

It stemmed from a Trilogy .. I forget who wrote it but it was a great story with Mara Jade and Tallon Karrade and Grand Admiral thrawn.

Midichlorians where a discovery that allowed Jedi (strong Force users) to be cloned without creating a strong force resonance that drove the clone and the original person crazy before the clone reached maturity. It was a great plot device in the series in which it was introduced.

And the it got introduced rhetroactively into the Old Republic... Should never have happened in my opinion... Went from being a mystery to a scientific measurable quantity.

"OH he's onlny got a handful of mediclorians... Guess he can be a janitor..."

One of those great plot devices that gained a life of it's own and rapidy took things into a nose dive.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic with the title -- I'm actually curious as to what he intended with these blood-born things.

 

A quick search of the Web turns up a lot of explanation but not much background. For example Urban Dictionary defines Midichlorian as: "Word imagined by George Lucas to totally f***-up The misticism surrounding the Force in Star Wars."

 

So does anyone know the actual background of the Midichlorians and why Lucas decided that they were the wellspring of the Force? Anyone with inside knowledge (Maybe some of the Mythbusters play??)?

 

To me, it seemed like what Lucas was trying to show was that the Jedi of old had all kinds of knowledge that was lost in the totalitarian regime of the Empire.

 

Of course, in the end, Midichlorians joined Jar Jar Binks, Padme's constant wardrobe changes and the Trade Federation as the primary villain of the prequels on the post-TPM trash heap of ideas. But I'd still love to know what Lucas was trying to get at.

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Now, I understand that in the film the midichlorians were actually meant to BE the Force. I.e. they actually caused Force sensitivity. My understanding is that this IS what Lucas originally meant.

 

However, just about every other person realized how insane this was and retconned it. I follow the retcon which makes PERFECT SENSE.

 

 

 

Basically, midichlorians are sort of like crayfish. You see, crayfish live only in clean water. They do not cause water to be clean; you couldn't toss a bunch of crayfish into a polluted lake and it would become pristine. They simply only live in clean water, so if you find crayfish in a lake or stream you know the water is clean. They are indicators.

 

Midichlorians are like crayfish; they are indicators. They show that a particular individual has high Force sensitivity. Oh they grow in every person, but they need high levels of Force sensitivity to really propagate and reach high numbers. So what; Anakin had a level of over 20,000? An average Jedi would probably have something like 5-10 thousand, while a non-Force sensitive would have more like a few hundred or, at most 1,000.

 

This provides a logical way of determine who was Force sensitive (thus explaining how the Order found new Jedi hopefuls) while still keeping the mysticism of the Force alive. What is it? Well we still don't know, but at least we can kinda measure it indirectly.

 

 

 

I realize this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know what he was thinking, but probably he thought this was a really great idea that the fans would love. The problem is no one challenged him on it so he figured it must be a great idea and stayed with it.

Excellent explanation! Midiclorians as an indicator, not as the source.

There is a simple solution to this: There is no prequel trilogy. TOR is the real prequel.

/thread

I dont see what the big deal is? The idea of symbiotic relationships reflects real life biology. There are countless species on earth that gain new abilities on account of a symbiotic organism.....abilities they otherwise would not have.

Just to give you a simple and common example: Cattle cannot digest the grass/straw that is their diet. Not even a little bit. There is a bacteria that lives in their stomachs, that digests the cows food for them. Without this bacteria all cows would starve to death.

My first intuition when introduced to the concept of midichlorians in the movie was that some people have this organism...which probably began as a parasite....and others do not. The organism is responsible for giving you the power to detect and thereby to utilize...the force. This is a perfectly understandable and sensible concept for anyone who paid attention in high school biology.

Now, I understand that in the film the midichlorians were actually meant to BE the Force. I.e. they actually caused Force sensitivity. My understanding is that this IS what Lucas originally meant.

 

However, just about every other person realized how insane this was and retconned it. I follow the retcon which makes PERFECT SENSE.

 

 

 

Basically, midichlorians are sort of like crayfish. You see, crayfish live only in clean water. They do not cause water to be clean; you couldn't toss a bunch of crayfish into a polluted lake and it would become pristine. They simply only live in clean water, so if you find crayfish in a lake or stream you know the water is clean. They are indicators.

 

Midichlorians are like crayfish; they are indicators. They show that a particular individual has high Force sensitivity. Oh they grow in every person, but they need high levels of Force sensitivity to really propagate and reach high numbers. So what; Anakin had a level of over 20,000? An average Jedi would probably have something like 5-10 thousand, while a non-Force sensitive would have more like a few hundred or, at most 1,000.

 

This provides a logical way of determine who was Force sensitive (thus explaining how the Order found new Jedi hopefuls) while still keeping the mysticism of the Force alive. What is it? Well we still don't know, but at least we can kinda measure it indirectly.

 

 

 

I realize this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know what he was thinking, but probably he thought this was a really great idea that the fans would love. The problem is no one challenged him on it so he figured it must be a great idea and stayed with it.

Not sure if you know what a 'no' prize is, but you get one. That is a great retconn, but it’s just that, a retconn. I refuse to let GL off the hook for the stupidity that was the use of midiclorians in the TPM. Had Lucas carefully laid out just what you said, then I wouldn't have been antagonistic to it, but that would require someone as science fiction inept as he to consult someone else, something he has categorically shown unwillingness to do. That was not his explanation, nor his intent. His intent was to have some magic Jedi measuring stick so that he could put space Jesus Anakin on par with Yoda. It was stupid! As Eros would say, "You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!" That's how I feel whenever Lucas talks pretty much.

I just think Lucas needed a way to prove - in the context of the story - that Anakin was massively powerful in the force, and he needed to do it in a way that wasn't subjective. If Qui Gon had said, "I can sense he's stronger in the force than Yoda," that would leave open the possibility that Qui Gon was just wrong or exaggerating. But with Midichlorians, it could be proven - through fake science - that Anakin's strength in the force was a fact.

I still think they were a dumb plot device, but as soon as Obi Wan said, "That's higher than Master Yoda," I figured that was their purpose.

the idea was and has always been the WHY only certain people use the force, George lucas needed to have a device to better explain the situation, Han didn't have it, wedge didn't, blah blah blah countless others did not.

How were Jedi able to find jedi potential, in the OT obi-wan and yoda already knew about luke and leia, but even vader was unable to sense it till luke had managed to bob and weave even him a the trench while using the force to stay on target..

i mean lets look at it, Leia a senator of Alderaan lived an entire lifetime undetected even in the face of Darth Vader himself, and more than likely exposed politically to palpatine. Shouldn't he even be able to tell if a person can use the force.

How did jedi even find children to train when unless a child uses the force they can not even sense them.

then there was Why were jedi/sith different how come no one else uses the force?

the answer was Midichlorians.

People can't seem to separate the idea Midichlorians = ability to use the force, THe force = invisible energy field that people tap into, binds all life together, ect.

Midichlorians are the way a lifeform communicates with the force itself, when you don't have enough the force can't hear you. this also explains why even lesser midi counted jedi are as powerful or = others, as once you gain a voice that the force can hear, its about your way of speaking to the force that grants power. Those with higher counts are louder than others, but those speaking the right way are heard and interpreted just as well in the force.

conveying your thoughts to the force makes one strong, be it through loud voices or calmer tones, but whispers usually go unheard.

So I read through the entirety of this thread, hoping that someone would point out the blatantly obvious.

Mitochondria are organelles that live (yes live, they have their own completely separate DNA from the host cell and many MANY geneticists postulate that Mitochondria used to be an independent organism that formed a symbiotic relationship with the first single celled organisms in order to create the first oxygen processing life forms) inside every cell in your body. They are the only reason you are able to use Oxygen to live. They are the power house of the living cell (non-plant cells... plants have chloroplasts in their place, to process sunlight instead of oxygen.)

Whatever religious or philosophical comparisons you wish to draw aside, Lucas CLEARLY got the idea of blood born organisms present in every living thing from the real life blood born organism that are as old as the first sparks of life on this planet - Mitochondria.

So I read through the entirety of this thread, hoping that someone would point out the blatantly obvious

 

People can't seem to separate the idea Midichlorians = ability to use the force, THe force = invisible energy field that people tap into, binds all life together, ect.

 

Midichlorians are the way a lifeform communicates with the force itself, when you don't have enough the force can't hear you. this also explains why even lesser midi counted jedi are as powerful or = others, as once you gain a voice that the force can hear, its about your way of speaking to the force that grants power. Those with higher counts are louder than others, but those speaking the right way are heard and interpreted just as well in the force.

.

^ exactly

So I read through the entirety of this thread, hoping that someone would point out the blatantly obvious.

 

Mitochondria are organelles that live (yes live, they have their own completely separate DNA from the host cell and many MANY geneticists postulate that Mitochondria used to be an independent organism that formed a symbiotic relationship with the first single celled organisms in order to create the first oxygen processing life forms) inside every cell in your body. They are the only reason you are able to use Oxygen to live. They are the power house of the living cell (non-plant cells... plants have chloroplasts in their place, to process sunlight instead of oxygen.)

 

Whatever religious or philosophical comparisons you wish to draw aside, Lucas CLEARLY got the idea of blood born organisms present in every living thing from the real life blood born organism that are as old as the first sparks of life on this planet - Mitochondria.

So I read through the entirety of this thread, hoping that someone would point out the blatantly obvious

Yes, I kind of implied as much in my post. Tho since it was, as you said, obvious, i thought it more necessary to point out why and how this relates to the star wars universe and why it has a valid place there.

The moments that should be the greatest and most tense (such as lightsaber battels) are usually ruined by 2,000 cgi soldiers storming the background. Ep 4 was character-driven and the one-on-one face-off between Vader and Obi-wan would have been much less potent if hives of stormtroopers had been scampering across multiple levels of the background. Nope, it's just me and you in this tunnel Vader. And if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can imagine.

+1 insightful movie comment of the week

Now, I understand that in the film the midichlorians were actually meant to BE the Force. I.e. they actually caused Force sensitivity. My understanding is that this IS what Lucas originally meant.

 

However, just about every other person realized how insane this was and retconned it. I follow the retcon which makes PERFECT SENSE.

 

 

 

Basically, midichlorians are sort of like crayfish. You see, crayfish live only in clean water. They do not cause water to be clean; you couldn't toss a bunch of crayfish into a polluted lake and it would become pristine. They simply only live in clean water, so if you find crayfish in a lake or stream you know the water is clean. They are indicators.

 

Midichlorians are like crayfish; they are indicators. They show that a particular individual has high Force sensitivity. Oh they grow in every person, but they need high levels of Force sensitivity to really propagate and reach high numbers. So what; Anakin had a level of over 20,000? An average Jedi would probably have something like 5-10 thousand, while a non-Force sensitive would have more like a few hundred or, at most 1,000.

 

This provides a logical way of determine who was Force sensitive (thus explaining how the Order found new Jedi hopefuls) while still keeping the mysticism of the Force alive. What is it? Well we still don't know, but at least we can kinda measure it indirectly.

 

 

 

I realize this doesn't really answer your question. I don't know what he was thinking, but probably he thought this was a really great idea that the fans would love. The problem is no one challenged him on it so he figured it must be a great idea and stayed with it.

I actually arrived at much the same interpretation independently a while back while talking with my "Star Wars nerd turned biology student" brother, although our version had midichlorians as less a specific lifeform and more a category name for microorganisms that had evolved the ability to draw sustenance from the Force. Presumably this is a relatively common mutation, but unless the host is Force-sensitive said mutation confers little to no evolutionary advantage. (Of course, if the host is Force-sensitive, there's a population explosion not unlike that of Lenski's strain of E. coli which evolved the ability to successfully metabolize citrate.)

Let me see if this sums up the logic in this thread:

The prequels suck because they are childish and intended for children

The orginal movies are awesome

The orignal movies made "The Force" more mystical and magical...you know...because kids love magic and stuff

The prequels explain the force and some it's components with science........

Anyone else confused?