The problem with smash spec isn't about 1v1. It's about multiple Rage spec jumping and insta-killing a group of up to 5.

 

If it wasn't auto-crit, you'd have a chance, but AoE auto-crit of 5K X 3-4 players = 15k hp gone in 1 GCD on multiple people. If 3-4 PT wanna focus you, fine. It still won't be AoE, 1 people will die. You can't nerf focus fire, but Smash as it is now is like focus fire for the noobs.

 

Plus don't forget that a well speced Jugg will have 4 sec of immunity and 20% dmg reduction after a leap, making them impossible to CC or control before the have the time to unleash the Smash.

No no no, only vengeance juggernauts get that unstopable proc... and well specced??? no rage jugg goes that far into vengeance because the free force scream in immortality is MUST for jugg rage managment and dps. and you never see 3-4 smashers in a rwz or in regs dropping 5 people unless the group of 5 is in recruit or bm, that doesnt happen.

you cant be efficent running a team with only force damage, you need kenetic and such and you need other types of burst / dots.. good teams know this

and smash spec doesnt make you a noob? the spec alows you too constantly presure healers, you can be bad at playing rage, you can be decent, and you can be very smart and good at rage.

and whats with all the crying now? juggs have always been able to hit for 5.4+k .. they never buffed them that much, only better rage managment ,

But other classes that were deemed to be OP were nerfed within a couple weeks. Not months down the line.

This is false...

1. Many classes that were considered OP by the "majority" in the past have gone much longer than a couple weeks without change.

2. If I'm not mistaken, jugs got the buff in 1.6 which released December 5th... so technically we have not reached "months down the line".

This is false...

 

1. Many classes that were considered OP by the "majority" in the past have gone much longer than a couple weeks without change.

 

2. If I'm not mistaken, jugs got the buff in 1.6 which released December 5th... so technically we have not reached "months down the line".

The first nerfs to ops were pretty early- when most players weren't even 50 and they had no business doing nerfs based on the complaints of level 30s facing off against level 50s who might have even had champ/BM gear by then (there were plenty due to early 'exploits' which allowed both massive xp/valour- and early exploits like jumping over the voidstar wall and planting a bomb the moment the game started- guaranteeing very fast wins).

Even the 1.2 nerfs- four months in, so most players were 50, but, with how getting BM/champ gear was back then, a lot of players weren't geared up yet- so two months of whining based on an inaccurate picture- not to mention gear itself offered much less in general then, and as we all know; some classes scale better than others.

Furthermore- no rated data, so big nerfs based on no competitive data at all.

So yes- technically at the start of the game, those specs which were being called OP did stick around longer- but they still were nerfed off of useless data.

Maybe when there was no competition and large gear imbalances these classes were OP- but they shouldn't be balancing off that.

Of course- from their poor balancing attempts even now, they don't seem to be able to balance regardless of the data they have, so perhaps those nerfs were inevitable.

It's true- you can never have perfect balance- but it doesn't seem like BW is even trying to even things out.

What?

You didn't see the new assassin skill tree in 1.7? We get 5 more points and the new skill is Increases lacerate damage 500% and lowers its cost when in tank stance to 1 force.

The first nerfs to ops were pretty early- when most players weren't even 50 and they had no business doing nerfs based on the complaints of level 30s facing off against level 50s who might have even had champ/BM gear by then (there were plenty due to early 'exploits' which allowed both massive xp/valour- and early exploits like jumping over the voidstar wall and planting a bomb the moment the game started- guaranteeing very fast wins).

 

Even the 1.2 nerfs- four months in, so most players were 50, but, with how getting BM/champ gear was back then, a lot of players weren't geared up yet- so two months of whining based on an inaccurate picture- not to mention gear itself offered much less in general then, and as we all know; some classes scale better than others.

 

Furthermore- no rated data, so big nerfs based on no competitive data at all.

 

So yes- technically at the start of the game, those specs which were being called OP did stick around longer- but they still were nerfed off of useless data.

 

Maybe when there was no competition and large gear imbalances these classes were OP- but they shouldn't be balancing off that.

 

Of course- from their poor balancing attempts even now, they don't seem to be able to balance regardless of the data they have, so perhaps those nerfs were inevitable.

 

 

It's true- you can never have perfect balance- but it doesn't seem like BW is even trying to even things out.

Operatives first nerf was fine and completely called for. They where able to stunlock people to death. I've played against current operatives and they are still very much able to burst someone hard from stealth and have a lot of ways if you play wrong to take next to no damage while killing you.

The problem with smash spec isn't about 1v1. It's about multiple Rage spec jumping and insta-killing a group of up to 5.

 

If it wasn't auto-crit, you'd have a chance, but AoE auto-crit of 5K X 3-4 players = 15k hp gone in 1 GCD on multiple people. If 3-4 PT wanna focus you, fine. It still won't be AoE, 1 people will die. You can't nerf focus fire, but Smash as it is now is like focus fire for the noobs.

 

Plus don't forget that a well speced Jugg will have 4 sec of immunity and 20% dmg reduction after a leap, making them impossible to CC or control before the have the time to unleash the Smash.

Your "well specced jugg" won't be posting dps numbers anywhere near the top third of a decent warzone cos for said cc immunity and damage reduction he has to sacrifice the 31st talent of the rage three that is basically the specs raison d'être.

You sir are arguing that a spec that can produce 1 AOE smash per minute (cos the only singularity buildiers he has are on a 1min cooldown each) is somehow problematic. In short, you're like Ray Charles in the Louvre, you don't have a flipping clue.

Your "well specced jugg" won't be posting dps numbers anywhere near the top third of a decent warzone cos for said cc immunity and damage reduction he has to sacrifice the 31st talent of the rage three that is basically the specs raison d'être.

 

You sir are arguing that a spec that can produce 1 AOE smash per minute (cos the only singularity buildiers he has are on a 1min cooldown each) is somehow problematic. In short, you're like Ray Charles in the Louvre, you don't have a flipping clue.

That's besides the point, tbh. The reason being that smash isnt the only ability to hit hard. I have played a ton, I have multiple 50s. Including a fully geared guard and sentinel. My smash is the hardest hitting ability but its NOT the only ability to hit hard. It is NOT infrequent for me to see a 6k+ smash, followed by a 5k dispatch. Over 10k dmg in 2 globals, even (and often) more damage from the incidental aoe targets.

No way, even as a player fully prepared to benefit from the imbalance, I still think its disgustingly broken. Whether unremitting is taken or not is irrelevant. Stack a team for even uglier results. Certain maps exacerbates even further..

The greatest consequence of the imbalance, at the moment, is I actually resent my guildies when they want to play a dps commando, scoundrel sage etc because I know we have no chance verse a smash team, which are all too common today.

Bioware, we have a problem.

This troll attempt rates a 8/10 on the troll-o-meter

/thread

That's besides the point, tbh. The reason being that smash isnt the only ability to hit hard. I have played a ton, I have multiple 50s. Including a fully geared guard and sentinel. My smash is the hardest hitting ability but its NOT the only ability to hit hard. It is NOT infrequent for me to see a 6k+ smash, followed by a 5k dispatch. Over 10k dmg in 2 globals, even (and often) more damage from the incidental aoe targets.

No way, even as a player fully prepared to benefit from the imbalance, I still think its disgustingly broken. Whether unremitting is taken or not is irrelevant. Stack a team for even uglier results. Certain maps exacerbates even further..

 

The greatest consequence of the imbalance, at the moment, is I actually resent my guildies when they want to play a dps commando, scoundrel sage etc because I know we have no chance verse a smash team, which are all too common today.

 

 

Bioware, we have a problem.

thats only if it crits... which is probably 1/4-1/5 of the time if your properly stacking str an power

I don't see the problem with smash.

It does big AOE damage, but that is Focus tree's 1-trick pony.

Any changes to it would make the focus tree unusable.

In 1v1, there are higher burst damage class/tree combos.

In MvM, smash is dps king, but you could always pay more attention to try not to stack on top of your teammates.

Pugging? Well you are losing to a well coordinated team or against a good player. Makes perfect sense to me.

3 people jumping on you to smash? Too bad, every class will die when you get focus fired by 3 dps ACs.

5 people dying at the same time? Why would you guys stand so close to each other?

Every class / tree is meant to be different. This brings more variation to the mechanics in PvP.

Smash is fine as it is.

At least you can control your character when you go up against smahes.

Bubble stuns on the other hand.... ughh....

This is false...

 

1. Many classes that were considered OP by the "majority" in the past have gone much longer than a couple weeks without change.

 

2. If I'm not mistaken, jugs got the buff in 1.6 which released December 5th... so technically we have not reached "months down the line".

Juggs/Guardians and Maras/Sents received the smash buffs in Patch 1.4 which was released at the end of October. Since we are now nearing the end of January, I would say that constitutes as "months down the line"

i think it's funny when someone makes a real point about the class and the respnse is " Yea, but they can aoe for 6k" lol learn to spread out, if theres noone around each other in aoe range, a guardian can only hit one player.

Ah good point. I will strive to stay out of melee range from now on from everyone by standing in a corner stealthed.

I don't see the problem with smash.

It does big AOE damage, but that is Focus tree's 1-trick pony.

Any changes to it would make the focus tree unusable.

 

In 1v1, there are higher burst damage class/tree combos.

In MvM, smash is dps king, but you could always pay more attention to try not to stack on top of your teammates.

Pugging? Well you are losing to a well coordinated team or against a good player. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

3 people jumping on you to smash? Too bad, every class will die when you get focus fired by 3 dps ACs.

5 people dying at the same time? Why would you guys stand so close to each other?

 

Every class / tree is meant to be different. This brings more variation to the mechanics in PvP.

Smash is fine as it is.

 

At least you can control your character when you go up against smahes.

Bubble stuns on the other hand.... ughh....

lol this is nice.... 5 people dying at the same time? Why would you guys stand so close to each other?

sign of stupidity.... how do you think work aoe heal revificacion? do you think healer just press button and it heals all the people around in diameter 100m?

no, they have to stay in the circle 8m get healed ... l2p

lol this is nice.... 5 people dying at the same time? Why would you guys stand so close to each other?

 

sign of stupidity.... how do you think work aoe heal revificacion? do you think healer just press button and it heals all the people around in diameter 100m?

 

no, they have to stay in the circle 8m get healed ... l2p

If you have 3 aoe healers vs 3 smashers you will be fine but 3 aoe dps vs 1 aoe healer... don't stand so close to each other.

This is nonsense. Big numbers from any class requires time on target which means healing. More healing is more time is more damage. Having said as much, a good smasher WILL dominate the field and the score board. And because its an AOE, guaranteed crit with a DMG multiplier, stacking multiple smashers is not only imbalanced, it's flat out broken. No other reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

It's also one of the only ways to counter the stun bubble.

It's also one of the only ways to counter the stun bubble.

Agree. People use relatively the same strategy to avoid both stun bubbles and smash.

The sarcastic complaints about "oh yea I'll just avoid attacking people so I stay out of range", sigh. This complaint doesn't hold water and has been used to complain about AOE mezz, force lightning back in the day, AOE knockbacks, DFA back in the day, etc. Of course you can't avoid 100% of smashes (or any AOE), asking for that is asking to dumb down the game even more than it already is. I personally don't have any problems with smash in it's current state (pvping with my jugg/AP PT/Conceal&Heal Oper/Shadow). Rightly or wrongly I see it as a L2P issue. WZs are long enough to figure out who is playing smash, mark the target(s) and drop him every time he is out of spawn.

The only complaint people should have is that power stacking exists. Having force/tech bonus damage over 1000 in pvp causes imbalance. I see so many complaints about 4 stacks of shockwave, yada yada, but 4 stacks of shockwave is pretty weak if your force bonus damage is below 800.

The problem with smash spec isn't about 1v1. It's about multiple Rage spec jumping and insta-killing a group of up to 5.

 

If it wasn't auto-crit, you'd have a chance, but AoE auto-crit of 5K X 3-4 players = 15k hp gone in 1 GCD on multiple people. If 3-4 PT wanna focus you, fine. It still won't be AoE, 1 people will die. You can't nerf focus fire, but Smash as it is now is like focus fire for the noobs.

 

Plus don't forget that a well speced Jugg will have 4 sec of immunity and 20% dmg reduction after a leap, making them impossible to CC or control before the have the time to unleash the Smash.

And they will be considerably gimmped by doing that because they have to sacrifice Force Crush for Unstoppable. Seriously, people need to learn the class before they spout off at the mouth about something they know nothing about. It's as bad as the gun-grabbing morons out in the world that know nothing about firearms other than they look scary.

Edit: What kills me even more is that I have not read one single time of someone suggesting that why not just keep primary target damage on smash the same, but have a set percentage lower damage on the AOE damage, like say 15%-20%? I know there are other abilities out there on different classes that use a similar mechanic.

And they will be considerably gimmped by doing that because they have to sacrifice Force Crush for Unstoppable. Seriously, people need to learn the class before they spout off at the mouth about something they know nothing about. It's as bad as the gun-grabbing morons out in the world that know nothing about firearms other than they look scary.

 

 

Edit: What kills me even more is that I have not read one single time of someone suggesting that why not just keep primary target damage on smash the same, but have a set percentage lower damage on the AOE damage, like say 15%-20%? I know there are other abilities out there on different classes that use a similar mechanic.

Smash is not a target-able attack. The ability would need to be reworked to make this change. Although this change would increase the output for rage/focus. No more missing smashes. Smash would be blacked out until the player is within "range". This means there would never be a time where smash was off cooldown after a miss, for example, after a knockback from a merc/commando. The smash would either hit or not be used. It wouldn't miss and be wasted. That probably only makes sense to those who player rage/focus.

Your "well specced jugg" won't be posting dps numbers anywhere near the top third of a decent warzone cos for said cc immunity and damage reduction he has to sacrifice the 31st talent of the rage three that is basically the specs raison d'être.

 

You sir are arguing that a spec that can produce 1 AOE smash per minute (cos the only singularity buildiers he has are on a 1min cooldown each) is somehow problematic. In short, you're like Ray Charles in the Louvre, you don't have a flipping clue.

I was going to say this but... thanks

It is amazing to me how little people know about the class... yet get on here and rage.

"A group of smasher jumped to me and killed me."

Yeah... and if a group of PT/OPs/Assassins/even Mercs focused me I would die fast too.

"they can jump into a crowd and bomb them all for 6-7k"

Well lets see... between tanks, people with a skilled AOE reduction (Example: A carnage Mara) or people already popping cooldowns because they are already engaged in a fight... that just dont happen nearly as often as people think.

ALL JUGS ARE NOW 31/31/31

You people can try to defend and protect your Fotm class all you want we all know its gonna get nerfed down and another take its place.

LOL!!!!

I have played this spec from launch bro.... FOTY? Flavor of the year?

No wait... I did get to valor 100 and Social 10 in one month

Plus don't forget that a well speced Jugg will have 4 sec of immunity and 20% dmg reduction after a leap, making them impossible to CC or control before the have the time to unleash the Smash.

Actually thats in the middle Vengeance tree. And while that ability box is FANTATSIC, its not ideal for a derp-smasher to get that box. So actually no, a POORLY specced juggernaut will have that skill box, as the top box of the focus tree to keep the derp smashes rolling faster, is more ideal.

Just saying.