mmo pvp has always... ALWAYS been determined by burst damage.

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mmo pvp has always... ALWAYS been determined by burst damage.

 

/thread

Wrong mmo's have been determined by healers using a small percentage of their class abilities ever since UO died and "utility classes" were put in games, so kids could roll them and call for nerfs on any dps that kills them.

In this game it is healers and tanks. If they held a 8 on 8 championship that was sponsored right now want to know the only "burst class" that a team would have on it?

Assassin/shadow. Why? Cus guard makes healing absolute faceroll due to shared dmg and aoe heals and the fact that half the CC's in this game break on dmg and are completely negated by guard. Add to that assassin/shadow is about the only melee in this game that can completely shut down a healer with interupts/knockbacks. Op/scoundrel hits a full resolve bar on their opener which = fail.

Tanks and healers run this game in premades. Keep calling for nerfs on burst though lol. The only MMO that had sponsored tourneys people cared about was WoW. How many times did burst classes win? It was all heal cleaves (high survival melee) or PMR where the rogue was basically going crazy with focus macros and was there to basically just control people and only bursting on a kill opportunity with every cooldown and trinket blown.

Your post is exactly what I would expect from someone who prob got farmed by arcane mages in the sub 1500 bracket.

Yea, the Game will be dominated by Juggernauts/Guardians with Guarded healers, maybe one or two sentinels for the Buffs.

Vanguards/powertechs TANK SPECCED to pull into melee cleave and to one shot ball carriers in huttball.

Guardians/jugs focus specced for cleave and provide guard and taunts.

Best AOE healer due to guard making dmg low.

Assassin/shadow dps specced to interupt/lockout heals and also the best hutball carriers.

MAYBE one sent/marauder as a buff bot/mstrike. If you have one of these you would make the assassin/shadow a tank for huttball carrying.

Grats you just hit 2200 (if that was the rating you needed to hit) in this game. As faceroll as it gets. You bypass all aoe CC and CC that breaks on dmg due to guard.

What do people cry about? Hybrid heal dps specs. Got to love it.

Alot of scoundrels here.

I played Commando, now i play Vanguard that my friend have got the game and we play together.

I say Scounder/Operative is not OP.

BHs crits 4k+ on me all the time. I've even eaten combo of 4.5k + 6.2k crits from a 50lvl Marauder that instakilled me because i wasn't at full health at the time (and i'm not at 50 myself so no expertise to lower that dmg).

I've also critted 4.2k on 15lvl Sniper while in a warzone....

And on my Commando i was never killed 1v1 against equal level (or even slightly higher lvl) scoundrel/operative. I wait for the second stun, use my skill to remove it. Now i'm immune to stuns and at around 45-60% hp. I pop knockback (concussion charge) and he's away from melee range and is snared. Now i can simply run away or pop Reactive Shield (skill points makes me immune to casting pushback and interrupts while it's active) and heal myself up (and keep it there) untill my team kills the sneaky guy.

I played Commando, now i play Vanguard that my friend have got the game and we play together.

 

I say Scounder/Operative is not OP.

 

BHs crits 4k+ on me all the time. I've even eaten combo of 4.5k + 6.2k crits from a 50lvl Marauder that instakilled me because i wasn't at full health at the time (and i'm not at 50 myself so no expertise to lower that dmg).

 

I've also critted 4.2k on 15lvl Sniper while in a warzone....

 

And on my Commando i was never killed 1v1 against equal level (or even slightly higher lvl) scoundrel/operative. I wait for the second stun, use my skill to remove it. Now i'm immune to stuns and at around 45-60% hp. I pop knockback (concussion charge) and he's away from melee range and is snared. Now i can simply run away or pop Reactive Shield (skill points makes me immune to casting pushback and interrupts while it's active) and heal myself up (and keep it there) untill my team kills the sneaky guy.

Thats great that you can get random high crits. Ops / scoundrel can reliably own somebody, even level 50s geared for pvp.

Things my full champion gear smuggler cant burst to death

-Tanks

-Anything with a sorcerer/sage bubble

-Anyone who is gaurded

-Tanks

-Anything I do not crit on. Crits are my life, no crit no kill.

-DPS specced Tanks

-People who are not dumb and trinket my first stun and proceed own me because my ambush ALWAYS RESOLVES PEOPLE.

Thats great that you can get random high crits. Ops / scoundrel can reliably own somebody, even level 50s geared for pvp.

Never seen that done. I've seen couple try. But they have failed either a) because i heal their target (it is not 1v1 game) or b) once i'm immune to CC, they cannot interrupt my heals, if they go for me.

Maybe in pure 1v1 fight, but who cares really?

Commando + Vanguard holding half of the Empire team next to the right side turret for 4mins while rest of our team caps middle and left side sure does more for the team than 1 scoundrel killing someone 1v1.

And getting ~4k crits on low lvl sniper is not a random... All the crits on it will be around 4k with ambush. Unless you're foolish enough to target 50lvls with high expertise. My point was that, a ranged class can do higher dmg numbers.

What would you say if i told you one scoundrel could do the same?

One scoundrel cannot hold half the team in one place, they get vaporized. Except for me. But thats because I stealth and taunt the other team in /say. God bless the man who let us communicate like that. The doo doo talking I have done, is enormous.

Things my full champion gear smuggler cant burst to death

 

-People who are not dumb and trinket my first stun and proceed own me because my ambush ALWAYS RESOLVES PEOPLE.[/i]

In which case you kite them while still hitting 2k per instant cast, wait until white bar depletes, blind, stealth, continue. Too hard.

I should add something here, as a question to all good geared scoundrels/op... when were you NOT able to kill anyone who was unable to pop their trinket as soon as they were whitebarred? Because anyone getting caught in that stunlock chain is totally ****ed. Even if they pop all defensive CDs they don't have enough health left 1v1 to stand a chance.

Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else. If you target them while they are uncloaked, you mince them.

 

They are nowhere NEAR the gods of PVP. Go and actually PVP. Every class has something that seems overpowered. Every. One.

/agree

For us to be gods in pvp we would need a gab closer, but we dont so we got damage. end of story.

Warriors got there charge to get back into battle. sins got there speed boost. sorcs, merc BHs and snipers got insane range. powertech BHs got graple. what do Ops have.....nothing. You knock us off a ledge in huttball and we have to run all they way back up at normal run speed cause we are in combat, by the time we get back up the fight is either over or has moved some where else.

I wouldn't consider a class that has stealth and several CC abilities to be a class that can do nothing but damage. Personally, I also see Stealth as a gap closer as it allows you close the distance with the enemy since they don't know you are coming. Obviously stealth is not as effective as say Force Charge when it comes to just closing the cap, but Stealth can also be used defensively and you also have to keep in mind that the Operative is actually capable of putting out some decent damage from range, which is not something that the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight class can do.

This is entirely anecdotal, but I started playing an Operative tonight and even at level 10-14 with green gear and barely any abilities, I still managed several times to reach ~170K damage in Warzones which is pretty much on par with what I can do with my Vengeance specced level 50 Sith Juggernaut with several pieces of champ gear. Hell I even soloed a lvl50 Jedi Guardian, though I admit he didn't really seem to know what he was doing. Even at such low levels, I already feel quite effective and looking at the talent trees, I only see the class getting significantly better as I level up.

Is the class over-powered? I am inclined to think that it is, but we also have classes like the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight class that are in desperate need of a buff, so how much of a nerf is required I am not sure yet.

I wouldn't consider a class that has stealth and several CC abilities to be a class that can do nothing but damage. Personally, I also see Stealth as a gap closer as it allows you close the distance with the enemy since they don't know you are coming. Obviously stealth is not as effective as say Force Charge when it comes to just closing the cap, but Stealth can also be used defensively and you also have to keep in mind that the Operative is actually capable of putting out some decent damage from range, which is not something that the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight class can do.

 

This is entirely anecdotal, but I started playing an Operative tonight and even at level 10-14 with green gear and barely any abilities, I still managed several times to reach ~170K damage in Warzones which is pretty much on par with what I can do with my Vengeance specced level 50 Sith Juggernaut with several pieces of champ gear. Hell I even soloed a lvl50 Jedi Guardian, though I admit he didn't really seem to know what he was doing. Even at such low levels, I already feel quite effective and looking at the talent trees, I only see the class getting significantly better as I level up.

 

Is the class over-powered? I am inclined to think that it is, but we also have classes like the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight class that are in desperate need of a buff, so how much of a nerf is required I am not sure yet.

With lvl 10-14 you have only 2 melee attacks on 6/9 sec timer...the dmg you do is with rifle fire, nades and whatver but not with close combat. Operatives are quiete weak in lower lvl pvp in comparison to other classes....downing a lvl 50 no way if the player has at least some skill.

They are not op, and i get ganked by them all the time..If you seriously cant just stealth scan or aoe an area, or pop your movement skill, then you probably deserve to die. I get operatives on me all time, including the top 2 on my server right now, and i still can get them off me and kill them even after an ambush. Just use your skills, kite them even...if u can stay 5m away from them they can't even stab you.

That's easy to say when you play a ranged class. As a Sith Warrior, maybe you could enlighten me as to what stealth scan, aoe and movement skill you are referring too. Also, staying away from them isn't going to help me kill the guy.

I completely disagree with this post. If this is the case, then the Sorcerers should be removed from the game completely...it'd be easier to do this than deal with the aftermath of the massive nerf that is required.

Learn to play against the scoundrel, don't just ask for a nerf. I am at level 41 and I am finally starting to even up with the BH and SI on power.

With lvl 10-14 you have only 2 melee attacks on 6/9 sec timer...the dmg you do is with rifle fire, nades and whatver but not with close combat. Operatives are quiete weak in lower lvl pvp in comparison to other classes....downing a lvl 50 no way if the player has at least some skill.

Basic rifle fire does a surprising amount of damage. It'll often crit for 500ish a tick and considering we're talking about a free high range attack with no cooldown, this is pretty darn good. I know I can't put out that much damage with Assault on my Warrior and I have to be in melee range.

Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else. If you target them while they are uncloaked, you mince them.

 

They are nowhere NEAR the gods of PVP. Go and actually PVP. Every class has something that seems overpowered. Every. One.

i just hope Marauders get a slight buff, i may just suck at PVP, but still, we get one AOE stun and its cooldown is way to high, either we get more stuns or atleast more stunbreakers with additional healing/beneficial effects

Wow man, he's 32... too bad you don't get shoot first until 36... and hell. thats also when you can put the talent in to give it a knockdown.

 

Try being truthful.

 

Else, you're doing it wrong.

I dont play his class, I just know he kills me easily. I have a pretty decent chance with all the other classes. My bad he's lvl 37, i'm 46 now.... No need to lie, countless others saying the same thing. Your just upset because truth hurts man....

if you dont have your cds and he does then he SHOULD kill you, how do you not understand that?

so then it's your position that without extraordinary or cooldown based abilities, every class should just lay down and die to Ops? Really?

If you don't have your CDs, he SHOULD kill you? WoW - all Ops need now is mind control to get you to blow your cooldowns. In fact, why bother to play the fight out - how about if your cooldowns are down and he targets you, you just die?

I've seen this before from OP class players trying to ~reason~ their way through. Eventually it boils down to "Don't cry! The best PLAYERS play the OP class of the month."

so then it's your position that without extraordinary or cooldown based abilities, every class should just lay down and die to Ops? Really?

 

If you don't have your CDs, he SHOULD kill you?

lol.

Yes, my escape w/ a 2 min CD is the only thing that can prevent me from getting insta-gibbed, so if I blow that on, say, the other 500 forms of CC that are being flug around like poo in a chimp enclosure, I deserve to be "skilled" by an Op.

So me and another level 50 runs op to cap this point in the Alderaan warzone. Out of nowhere this scoundrel opens up and obliterates the other lvl 50 before I can even react. He then vanishes and opens up on me with a stun.

Were you busy making a sandwich? Maybe if you had CCed/Healed/Killed the Op/AT LEAST PUT A BLEED ON HIM SO HE CAN'T VANISH!? you wouldn't be on the forums right now QQing about how you and your bad friend got wrecked 2v1