I wonder what BW's devs have in their minds to nerf so drastically the range of two of the most used classes in the game, the Vanguards and the Powertechs...

 

I mean, both of them got 2 of the most powerful abilities nerfed in range... they've dropped from 30 meters to 10 meters!

 

I mean... WTH!!!???

 

Assault Vangs and Pyro Ptechs already don't have either a 1 min cc nor a gap closer and now this!

 

In my opinion (and I believe that's not only me that thinks like me) those two classes ARE NOT melee range classes... of course they have close quarters abilities (just like snipers / gunslinger and these are not melee classes) but that doesn't mean we need to be less than 10 meters close to the enemy all the time! Most of our abilities have a 30 meter range (hammer shot, full auto, sitcky grenade and many others).

 

To me, those classes are more like MEDIUM RANGE classes (15 to 25 meters), a step before the real ranged ones (snipers / gunslingers - 25 to 35 meters) and the melee ones (force users 15 and less).

 

So why the hell we're getting out abilities range nerfed?

 

All because of the PvP cry babies I supposed, because they can't work with tactic to take down vangs / ptechs and so they cry and cry over and over again to nerf the classes!

 

So BW, why don't you give us the ability to use sabers or swords already!???

OR EVEN BETTER why don't you NERF THE WHOLE GAME ALREADY!!!!???

 

Some may say that this is all QQ'ing, but it's not... I'm complaining (not crying around) about unfair changes to our abilities, changes that will affect PvE more than PvP...

 

People need to put into their minds that this game is not about PvP only, there are people like me that prefer PvE a lot more!

 

If there's a class to be nerfed that's the marauders, if one of those guys jump on you, no matter the kind of gear you have or how strong you are, with only 3 or 4 hits, you're down!

 

Or even better... work to fix the damn resolver bar, or whatever it is to make everything fair for everybody, because I've seen a lot of complaining about this matter too!

 

 

 

So BW, PLEASE, for God's sake...

 

Stop messing with our PvE experience!!!!

i really don't know why they nerfed the range. My PvP complaint about stuns is the fact that the only break you have is a one-n-done thing, there is no for "xx" seconds after immunity. Why can't there be a lasting immunity or even a relic with a stun break ability that can only be used in WZs? What about CD for all stun abilitys, some classes have more than one stun and can just rapid fire them at you.

PT's have been at the rough end of BW's wisdom for ages now, I shelved my lvl 50 PT, using it for storage now. I would really like to know where they get their info from, it obviously isnt the players.

I also wish to know where do they get these info from...

 

I was playing False Emperor HM with some guildies now and we almost hit the rage timer in a few champion bosses due to the fact that I wasn't close enough to use the incendiary round and the assault plastique... why? Oh well... becuase I was so used to play with them at around 15 ~ 20 meters due to their old range, that I just didn't realize I wasn't close enough.

 

Now I switched to tactics... if I REALLY NEED TO BE AT MELEE RANGE, at least I can do proper damage, but now it's a whole new learning curve until i can be really effective.

Oh no, you have to be in melee range to be an effective DPS now.

 

How ever do the marauders/juggernauts/operatives cope?

They should just make it so PvE and PvP are two seperate things, that way the game gets alot easier to balance as well and yes other games have done this and yes it does work very well.

 

You make it so each ability have 2 stats, one for PvE and one for PvP. For example take Electrocute, make it have the 10m range in PvP but when used in PvE it is still 30m range. How does the game know what stat to use? Simple PvP flag on or off?

Oh no, you have to be in melee range to be an effective DPS now.

How ever do the marauders/juggernauts/operatives cope?

They cope by having 'gape closer' abilities, we do not.

They have multiple defensives CDs, we do not.

 

Like OP said, those nerfs are PVP based, nothing more.

They should just make it so PvE and PvP are two seperate things, that way the game gets alot easier to balance as well and yes other games have done this and yes it does work very well.

 

You make it so each ability have 2 stats, one for PvE and one for PvP. For example take Electrocute, make it have the 10m range in PvP but when used in PvE it is still 30m range. How does the game know what stat to use? Simple PvP flag on or off?

 

I loved your idea and thanks God there's someone that thinks in this whole forum...

 

It doesn't seem to be a hard thing to implement and it's quite obvious.

 

"But oh... I'm questing in a world and I can't use long range abilities cuz they're in PvP mode!?"

 

It's simple... just "stay cool" for 5 mins and you're fine.

 

They cope by having 'gape closer' abilities, we do not.

They have multiple defensives CDs, we do not.

 

Like OP said, those nerfs are PVP based, nothing more.

 

Someone here ^^^^^^ got the idea...

 

I'm complaining because we, the PvE players have to pay because of the PvP whinners...

 

Now I'm struggling to adapt myself to the tactics tree because now I'm obligated to stay under the 10 meters range to use all my abilities, which I could do before staying safer around 15 ~ 20 meters (medium range to me).

 

And to be honest... I'm feeling jeopardized... and loosing the interest to play me beloved vanguard... I even have the whole Hydra set to start a Ptech BH, but if this keep like that... I'm not sure anymore!

Edited September 27, 2012 by Haggardbr

They cope by having 'gape closer' abilities, we do not.

They have multiple defensives CDs, we do not.

 

Like OP said, those nerfs are PVP based, nothing more.

 

And there's the problem. The nerfs get done because the PVPers whine and because PVP "is what MMO's are"... and no one sees that most players do much more PVE than PVP. PVP will never be entirely balanced. In the Pandagame there were always classes that did better or worse in PVP because of the latest buffs and nerfs. I think THIS game should look to classes being PVE viable and then maybe implement some buffs that only work in PVP to balance things out.

The nerfs get done because the PVPers whine and because PVP "is what MMO's are"... and no one sees that most players do much more PVE than PVP.

 

Not disregarding your whole post but this part summarizes it all!

 

If this game was only about PvP there wouldn't have operations or HM flashpoints nor world bosses raids, or groups organizing to invade the oposite faction outpost just for fun!

 

Also, if this game was only about PvP, the PvP pop up for warzones wouldn't take so long to appear because everyone in the whole game would be playing it.

 

I mean... I don't refuse to play PvP 100%... but I'm more like 97% PvE than PvP... I only go PvP'ing when I want something from the vendor or it's a ranked warzone day with my guildies!

 

I just wish that the devs to stop by and check this thread...

Edited September 27, 2012 by Haggardbr

So... you can't play your class anymore because one or two abilities got 20m reduced range? LOL

 

Actually, noone that I know of and I know a lot of PVPers, asked for a range nerf. It doesn't even help me as a pvp tank, I'd need a bit better def / resi vs those one button skills.

 

And pls stop whining about PVP whiners. The whining is on both sides tbh.

 

I don't know why people want to seperate PVP and PVE in MMOs lol. It will only reduce the number of people you can play your game with.

 

Learn to play with changed abilities is all you can do. So far no change made me play worse in either PVP or PVE.

 

I just woke up, cheers.

Edited September 27, 2012 by NRN_Hawk

They should just make it so PvE and PvP are two seperate things, that way the game gets alot easier to balance as well and yes other games have done this and yes it does work very well.

 

You make it so each ability have 2 stats, one for PvE and one for PvP. For example take Electrocute, make it have the 10m range in PvP but when used in PvE it is still 30m range. How does the game know what stat to use? Simple PvP flag on or off?

 

I would love this and BioWare already has the ability in this game because they already do it with taunt skills, they work differently on PCs than they do on NPCs, so why can't/won't they do it for other skills? More work? Most likely but it might keep more players on both sides happy. I"m tired of skills I use often in PvE being changed because of the Resolve system in PvP.

 

Also, PvP will never be balanced the way people want because some classes are supposed to be better than others, the only ones that are supposed to be more closely balanced are the mirror classes. At least, that is what BioWare said once but maybe they changed their mind.

 

Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.

Made this thread in the suggestion box:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=537325

Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.

 

Nice to see that many player "stun" abilities have a range nerf and yet npc range hasn't! That smacks of a change for PvP without thought of PvE.

This change effectively has made Powertechs a melee class. If you gonna stand in range for Thermal you might as well get in their for rocket punch etc.. So for fights like Zorn and toth in EC and the robot droid in Lost island, I have to be considered a melee to do Damage now. GG bioware GG

Quit blaming Bioware for everything that EA is/has done to this game. BW exists in name only and the blame is 100% on EA. EA should give the game back to the original BW company and quit the gaming industry completely... they SUCK!!!

They nerfed the class out of many of the ACs over the months and always claimed it wasn't for PvP, yet after that one sentence it was all about this and that in PvP.

 

Make up you bloody minds!

 

I thought this was supposed to be a STORY intensive MMO and that means PvE.

 

Stop killing the PvE experience for the PvP whiners that couldn't win against an open doorway.

Agreed whole-heartedly with OP. Never played a powertech/vanguard myself, but I have a merc and sorc who have been affected by the stun/knockback changes. Good to see that mercs got an interrupt--we only needed that oh, I dunno, 9 months ago.

 

One thing that really bothers me is, last I checked, even with the new Dread Guard Relics out now, the pvp War Hero relics are still BiS for PvE (at least from dps/heal perspective, I don't play any tanks). I may not speak for the majority here, but I find playing just 1 warzone match totally insufferable. I don't pvp in this game, at all. It's simply not how I would choose to spend my time here. Why should 100% pve folks have to pvp to get the BiS pve gear? I feel like they could've just as easily redesigned the campaign & dread guard relics to have a static power bonus as they did with the pvp ones.

So... you can't play your class anymore because one or two abilities got 20m reduced range? LOL

 

I don't know why people want to seperate PVP and PVE in MMOs lol. It will only reduce the number of people you can play your game with.

 

It's not like "Oh one or two abilities had their range nerfed!"... they're the best abilities we have in the assault tree (except the cryo grenade) that can keep us alive longer because thay do a lot of damage.

 

And the thing is not to separate PvE from PvP as whole but it's to separate how the abilities work on both worlds... in PvE, range nerfing is a HUGE change that can (YES) jeopardize the gameplay for a lot of people as it is jeopardizing my performance now, since I was used to one thing for a loooooong time and now I have to change my learning curve drastically.

 

You may not believe it, but yes... it's true.

 

Funny-ish anecdote, I was playing my Vanguard earlier and forgot Cryo Grenade was shortened by 20m and I almost died. Oops.

 

That's what I'm trying to say... this range nerfing is jeopardizing our PvE gameplay.

 

Yesterday I was running False Emperor with some guildies to do the daily HM flashpoint and when we encountered that boss that's on the middle of a bridge (a trandoshan with a sword) and started the fight, I had to be so close to him to use my abilities (unlike before where I could keep myself safe around 20 meters) that when he swung his blade twice next to me (even the tank trying to keep him away from us) he killed me instantly... our healer didn't even had the chance to heal me.

 

Nice to see that many player "stun" abilities have a range nerf and yet npc range hasn't! That smacks of a change for PvP without thought of PvE.

 

This is my complaint, but people seem to be so stubborn that say I'm whining for nothing which is not true... we are having our gameplay in PvE jeopardized because of these changes.

 

This change effectively has made Powertechs a melee class. If you gonna stand in range for Thermal you might as well get in their for rocket punch etc.. So for fights like Zorn and toth in EC and the robot droid in Lost island, I have to be considered a melee to do Damage now. GG bioware GG

 

Someone here agrees with me... BHs and Troopers, in my honest opinion, aren't supposed to be in melee range... to me, they're the step before the really ranged classes (from 25 meters and more) right after the melee classes (4 ~ 15 meters).

 

With the old range, I could safely put myself around the 20 meters and do a lot more damage than I'm doing now.

 

If we were really supposed to be in melee range, we should be using swords and sabers and not rifles and pistols.

 

Quit blaming Bioware for everything that EA is/has done to this game. BW exists in name only and the blame is 100% on EA. EA should give the game back to the original BW company and quit the gaming industry completely... they SUCK!!!

 

We know that it's EA fault and stuff, but unfortunately the (what we call here in Brazil) "Iron Forehead" to solve things, change things and deal with customers is Bioware.

 

If we complain with EA they won't give a damn about what we say.

 

They nerfed the class out of many of the ACs over the months and always claimed it wasn't for PvP, yet after that one sentence it was all about this and that in PvP.

 

Make up you bloody minds!

 

I thought this was supposed to be a STORY intensive MMO and that means PvE.

 

Stop killing the PvE experience for the PvP whiners that couldn't win against an open doorway.

 

Thanks God there are people in this game that are looking the whole mess this nerf is doing and agrees with me!

 

I may not speak for the majority here, but I find playing just 1 warzone match totally insufferable. I don't pvp in this game, at all. It's simply not how I would choose to spend my time here. Why should 100% pve folks have to pvp to get the BiS pve gear?

 

You can speak for myself in this sentence because this is right how I feel now...

 

I don't play PvP at all most of the times, only in the situations I said before:

 

1 - I want WZ comms to get a gun or a set of PvP clothes that I think that looks nice and I would like to use in PvE (Just like now I'm levelling a Gunslinger and there are two pieces of gear there that I want. I'll PvP to get comms for them and then never more again);

 

2 - When the PvP manager from my guild is setting a team for ranked or non-ranked WZs and they really need one more guy to complete it. THEN I would go but only when I'm sure they cannot find another person to fill the gap (since when I applied to this guild I am now, I left it well clear that I'm not fond to PvP - except the reasons I'm explaining now - and that I wouldn't participate in WZs).

Edited September 27, 2012 by Haggardbr

I will say, I'm quite disappointed with the range reduction of electrocute. As my main is an assassin tank, I now have ZERO ranged abilities that can do damage. The single-target taunt is now the only thing I can effectively use on a boss in the 20-30m range (since you can't pull bosses).

 

That said, I think I'll live. We all will. Maybe some more than others as we all get used to it, and remember that these moves don't work like they used to.

 

As a decently balanced pvp/pve player... I usually do about 2/3 pve and 1/3 pvp, so I can see the arguments and their validity for both sides of this debate. I'm not gonna get into gross detail here, but I wanna bring some points to mind for people to think about.

 

-------------------------------

 

For pvp (I'll get to pve in a second), this whole argument that ranged players HAVE to only have ranged abilities overlooks the fact that we're trying to balance classes here. Even if we forget the fact that many say pyrotech pt's and assault vg's are far and away the most OP pvp class in the first place, (which is a BIG point, mind you), if ALL of a ranged player's attacks can be executed effectively from range, that puts the melee classes at a HUGE disadvantage. Why? Why do you think? Range gives a player more options. And, simply by staying farther back, you can concievably DESTROY a melee player without them ever being able to TOUCH you. Sure, melee players have closing moves, but they're useless if you're stun-locked and killed before you can use them.

 

All this means is when a melee player DOES get in range of you, you STILL have your stun than you can now use on them, as opposed to having used it earlier. And, well, these shortened, yet still powerful moves are now no longer on cooldown, so you can punish them for getting in so close.

 

 

----------------------

 

Okay, now, for pve. First of all, you can't expect me to believe your entire reportoire of dps attacks are now all of a sudden melee attacks because two moves have their range shortened. There's still, what, all the others? Many of which also got buffed and do more damage. Read the patch notes, a LOT of other moves were tweaked.

 

That said, I don't have a pyro pt, so maybe I'm wrong there. But I KNOW I'm not wrong about this, and I know just about every pve player can agree, whether they like the changes or not:

 

PVE (ESPECIALLY OPS) IS EASIER FOR RANGED THAN FOR MELEE. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

 

It's apparent that reducing the range of these few attacks are making ranged dps harder than it used to be. So, change your tactics and get better. ^_^ What's wrong with a little more challenge, especially when it now makes some of your other guild mates, (such as your marauders and deception assassins, OR your own melee alts) less likely to be passed over when looking for dps raid slots. Why? They're, comparatively, less of a hindrance now that ranged dps is a little harder.

 

Thoughts?

Also, one more thing... I mean no disrespect to the OP, or anyone else that's posted in this thread... but...

 

WHY THE HELL IS THIS IN CUSTOMER SERVICE?

 

This section is reserved for technical issues. I CAN'T PLAY AT ALL right now because my launcher won't patch. And I have zero responses, partly because threads like this keep pushing it lower on the list.

 

You may not like something about the patch, but it's obvious your game works to a playable extent. Put opinions about the game where they belong, so people who are having trouble even logging on, and yet are still also paying subscriptions just like you, can get the help they need.

basically your a PvP player that want to come out as a PvE player thats what I thought when I read your two posts above me (#20). Edited September 27, 2012 by Shaya

I posted it here because of two reasons:

 

1 - I'm a PvE player that feels jeopardized by the changes in favor of PvP players. I love to do FPs and Ops and Raids with my guild mates more than going to PvP.

 

2 - I want the devs to see this and this is where they're checking the threads more often and so does people. But it seems like they're not paying attention.

If the forum's managers think it's better, this can be moved to General Discussion btw...

I play way more PVP than PVE and I think most of the class changes since 1.2 weren't needed at all. But people whining about other people whining is just lol.

 

Btw. quit complaining about PVP relics being something like BiS for PVE and you'd need them so hard that you HAVE to play warzones.

 

Best armorings were from PVE since 1.4... And if you don't want to PVP than don't get the relics, thanks. I'd HAVE to raid if I want to continue with crafting atm., but thanks to all the whining and whining gear will soon be so seperated that all I can do is continue playing the great PVP grind.

 

Whatever, SWTOR was balanced until 1.2 because it wasn't. Now all you can do is to adapt to the changes and live with it OR play on the PTS and make as many threads as you can which Bioware won't read.

 

Like I said earlier, the whining is on both sides and this thread is the perfect example of it.

Edited September 27, 2012 by NRN_Hawk