Kaze-Yama Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Probably won't get in answer for this but won't this basically make existing pvp gear pointless? Will War Hero be completely removed from the game? As it is now why even bother getting war hero at all if the bolster adds expertise now it means that the top tier pvp gear is the best gear and anything else is pointless. Also how will the new gear be earned? If it is by existing comms methods it will make me sad. Getting elite war hero as of now is a waste and a major grind if not simply impossible because you can't solo queue for ranked warzones. The entire pvp gearing system as it stands is convoluted and needs a total overhaul. It just seems contradictory for them to say they are trying to make the pvp system more skill based and fair when at the same time stating that new pvp gear will come out and without diminishing returns in place if you don't maximize expertise with the best gear you will still be at a significant disadvantage especially if bolster stops adding expertise at a certain level. EDIT: After seeing the new post, I'm still wondering will the stat increases be linked to player level with different tier gear at 50 and 55 with a common pvp currency or will their still be a differentiation between gear requiring valor or ranked levels. Edited February 20, 2013 by Kaze-Yama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 so this means that bolster IS going to be added into level 50 warzones? I may be mistaken, but I believe Bolster is always active in a warzone as it is, 1-49 and 50. This really doesn't change that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamakiri Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for. Thanks Rob. This sounds very promising and could bring a lot of new faces into PVP. I'm really looking forward to seeing it in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for. you are balancing PvE gear so that it is equally effective as PvP gear? um, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHinkle Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I may be mistaken, but I believe Bolster is always active in a warzone as it is, 1-49 and 50. This really doesn't change that at all. Truth. Bolster on live right exists in level 50 Warzones, it just doesn't do anything (since everyone is at the level it tries to bolster too). With the switch to the rating system, the bolster effect will still exist in Warzones of all levels, and now will do something if the player's gear isn't up to the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyg Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for. This scares me Robby. I really enjoy your game and hope this doesn't negatively affect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberDuberSoldat Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't know what the exact number is off the top of my head, but one of the aspects of the system is that newPvP gear, regardless of what "tier" it is, will hit cap expertise. That is, getting higher level PvP gear won't increase your expertise stat, just more of every other stat. so the tradeoff between expertise and endurance choice will still exist for tanks. It all depends on what the final damage resist, healing received and possible health pools will cap out at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 you are balancing PvE gear so that it is equally effective as PvP gear? um, what? He didn't say that. PvP gear will always be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) He didn't say that. PvP gear will always be better. You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for. that is what he said PvE gear has no place in PvP. just like PvP gear has no place in PvE. are we going to see a bolster system for Operations so that I can PvE with my War Hero gear? Edited February 20, 2013 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 This scares me Robby. I really enjoy your game and hope this doesn't negatively affect it. What scares you? That some PvE scrub might kill you? Better balancing of the gear would be a GOOD change imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobHinkle Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 This scares me Robby. I really enjoy your game and hope this doesn't negatively affect it. Remember my original comment, the goal is for high end PvE gear to come into the power gap between the recruit bolster level and PvP gear. We still want actual PvP gear to be better than PvE gear, so you are always better off wearing the gear specifically made for the content you are consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwave Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 you are balancing PvE gear so that it is equally effective as PvP gear? um, what? No he is stating that pve'er well have more survivability... But pvp gear well still be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 No he is stating that pve'er well have more survivability... But pvp gear well still be better do you not see the blatant contradiction in that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 PvE gear has no place in PvP. just like PvP gear has no place in PvE. are we going to see a bolster system for Operations so that I can PvE with my War Hero gear? I did the 16 man HM Xeno last night in my EWH suit. You already can PvE in PvP gear. EWH beats Rakata gear in every way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 do you not see the blatant contradiction in that statement? PvE gear will have more survivability than it does now, not better than PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyg Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Do you have a plan in place to roll back to the current expertise system just in case this flops and kills your PvP player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebado Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 that is what he said PvE gear has no place in PvP. just like PvP gear has no place in PvE. are we going to see a bolster system for Operations so that I can PvE with my War Hero gear? The "point of balance" he is referring to is mentioned earlier. You are assuming that it means something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamakiri Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If pveers wasn't too PvP competitively, I think they should have to get PvP gear. Pve gear is so easy to get. You can get your specific mod crafted for pve where in pvp you have to grind several pieces to get one piece hire you like it. If you ask of a sudden make pve gear competitive for PvP, it won't sit week with the people who have spent days weeks and months even getting their gear how they want it. Also, I could see this bringing in a lot of PVers to PvP to farm mats and not to win the match. This would add to the frustration pvpers already have. So, please tell me you are not making pve gear as good as our even just slightly worse than ewh. Try to look at the big picture. Most new players, or PVE players, feel too intimidated by the gear gap in PVP to even give it a try. This leaves the PVP population at best stagnant, or more realistically declining. As Rob pointed out, PVP gear will still be superior to PVE gear in PVP. Currently, you can use your PVP gear in PVE and do fine in everything but top end ops content. The same cannot be said for PVE gear in even regular WZs. Ease of acquisition is arguable with ops having weekly lockouts while warzone having no weekly caps on commendations. Crafting skews things a bit, but is not exactly a viable method of gearing for majority of player base. Either way, it's an irrelevant topic when discussing PVP balance and viability of different gear in it. Your insinuation that PVE'rs would only farm mats instead of trying to win is ludicrous though, since most efficient form of farming would still be winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Will there be a snack shop available in any of the WZs in case we want to buy some skittles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 PvE gear will have more survivability than it does now, not better than PvP gear. and until rob comes back and corrects his statement that PvE gear will be more balanced against PvP gear in Warzones (more health vs more damage taken), it doesnt matter how anyone else on this forum tries to clarify it for him. any attempt to balance PvE gear for PvP is ridiculous anyways. PvP gear is for PvP. is that not the purpose of expertise? to discourage people from using PvE gear? why bother with expertise if youre attempting to balance PvE gear against PvP gear? that defeats the purpose...... from what he says it sounds like PvP gear is having all of its endurance reworked, so that there is a significant gap between PvP health pools and PvE health pools. this has 2 negative effects. 1, it will further lower TTK. less health = die faster to burst. 2, full PvE gear should not be, even in the most slightest, most remote fashion, viable for use in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Do you have a plan in place to roll back to the current expertise system just in case this flops and kills your PvP player base. They didn't the last time. Two server merges later........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebado Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 and until rob comes back and corrects his statement that PvE gear will be more balanced against PvP gear in Warzones (more health vs more damage taken), it doesnt matter how anyone else on this forum tries to clarify it for him. any attempt to balance PvE gear for PvP is ridiculous anyways. PvP gear is for PvP. is that not the purpose of expertise? to discourage people from using PvE gear? why bother with expertise if youre attempting to balance PvE gear against PvP gear? that defeats the purpose...... from what he says it sounds like PvP gear is having all of its endurance reworked, so that there is a significant gap between PvP health pools and PvE health pools. this has 2 negative effects. 1, it will further lower TTK. less health = die faster to burst. 2, full PvE gear should not be, even in the most slightest, most remote fashion, viable for use in PvP. Sigh. That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible. Also worth pointing out that this system works on an individual item basis, so each slot itself is bolstered up independently of all of the other slots on a character, so slots can give more of a bolster bonus than others if you have a really powerful item in your chest slot, as an example, but a really behind the curve implant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCounsil Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Guys, Champion War Hero gear is already ingame, that is your new pvp gear tier, there is no need to speculate on it's stats. You can check it out at almost every website that has items database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Sigh. sigh what? PvE gear should not be viable in PvP. that is the entire point of expertise and having 2 separate gearing systems and if bolster is added to end-game PvP, that is going to open up a whole other can of worms Edited February 20, 2013 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyg Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) What scares you? That some PvE scrub might kill you? Better balancing of the gear would be a GOOD change imo. The reason they created expertise was to prevent this from happening. They said they didn't want someone to get top end pve gear and be able to come in and wreck shop in PvP. With this change they are making that a possibility. I'm scared of this upsetting the hardcore players. I want this game to succeed and this scares me that it could throw it into turmoil. I could be wrong but I'm still weary. Rob, keep up this feedback. Edited February 20, 2013 by sphyg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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