Surprised? First post from a dev on the pvp forums in months. Won't be seeing that again for a long, long time. Disgraceful.

I guess he did something good in thier nutshell so he got 1 post permission

#buffoperatives

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

Thank you for posting in the PVP forum.

Regarding the content of the post, I think these type of posts are great, and I hope you will also in the future keep addressing other concerns in this way. When you posts comments like these, of course everyone will never agree with it, but at least the players can get some insight into why things are the way they are, what your thoughts and plans are, and so on.

Also, at this same time I'd like to say that I like that the dev team's view on class balance seems to have changed over time. After launch, the messaging we got from BW often sounded like "we have the metrics, so we know that everything is perfect and the players are wrong".

Lately it's changed so that you are now acknowledging that not everything is solved in a spreadsheet.

In short: You still have no idea what you're doing on the PVP end of the spectrum. Assassin/Shadow Tank hybrids are outDPS'ing PURE dps classes (This is possible in Tank stance mind you), Sentinel/Marauder burst death squads are obliterating everything within 6 gcds (Yet still retain the most defensive CDs and TEAM BUFFS) and Paired smash (geared) warriors are AOE bombarding the **** out of clusters of players. Sorcs still don't have a defensive CD, mercs are still a red headed step child in the DPS department (just like lightning sorcs, the lack of mobility // reliance on one spell makes them a joke) and Operative healers are still the best PVP healer in the game.

 

The only thing I've seen *fixed* recently was the Pyro/vanguard ability to destroy someone at range and melee.

 

SIDENOTE: I am happy to see another "we're keeping an eye on it" response which is along the same lines of "Soon" and "stunlocking operative teams ruining PVP". /sarcasm.

 

On a more serious note: Can any of the developers respond to the Class Feedback threads? Because as of right now, they haven't listened to a damn word in them and have mentioned NOTHING about balancing PVE or PVP.

I think you have a point or two in that, but are going a bit over the top.

1. There is something to be written for tank classes in an mmo never to have better DPS than any of the pure DPS classes, but to have better survivability always. I think assassin tanks probably should have a minor damage reduction.

2. Maruader/Sentinels do need to have the burst clipped a little. Problem at the moment in PvP is that a WH/EWH geared Marauder can chop through most players in a few seconds unless they are similarly WH/EWH geared players. There is a case for either reducing the burst due to skills or lower the DPS stats on their WH/EWH gear.

3. Warrior smash should be toned down asap in a future patch. It is too OP, and basically can obliterate players in less than the best gear.

4. Sorc are OK at the moment. A different style of healer from Operative, but one of each complements well in a team. DPS Sorc should be less dps than Sniper or Marauader since they aren't a pure dps class (they can heal).

5. Merc is sort of alright, again they can heal so shouldn't be a top dps class in the game.

6. Operative stuns, and stun in general should be toned down, or stun breaking skill for classes increased. Operative dmg is about OK, but the multi stun abilities make them tricky for most to handle, and in less than WH gear their targets are too easy for them to kill.

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said in regards to Rage/Focus specs, but I do hope this type of dialogue can remain open between the staff and the players.

High end PvPers = premades?

 

Let's define that statement more clearly. What about teams averaging 2400 rating or higher? Well, most of these teams ran one Sent/Mara and they were Combat/Carnage for the speed boost. Adding a second Sent/Mara was less common than adding a duplicate Vang/PT.

 

Now, I also think that BW was very misguided in buffing the spec, and the spec was already powerful pre-1.4. But I don't doubt it when they say the spec was played less than the other two.

Notice I said head and shoulders over watchman, not combat. Some high end teams did run with a single Focus sent, usually paired with a focus Guard to great effect for smash trains. Not the most common use, but it worked. I don't know of any that ran Watchman sentinels though.

As for DPS Guardians? Focus is a no-brainer now.

I do hope this type of dialogue can remain open between the staff and the players.

Funny man is funny.

Rage/Focus was not FOTM since launch - it took most people a month or two to figure out it was the best guardian dps spec. And then most people figured out that Watchmen was better than everything a month or two after that. Vigilance was solid as of 1.2 and watchman got nerfed a bit. Then in 1.3 it was combat for sentinels and guardians in pvp were mostly tank hybrid ball carriers, guards and aoe slowers (focus was too much of an easily nullified glass cannon). Pure focus guardians became rare and a bit of a joke. Now in 1.4 people can play guardian dps again and be viable (in pve too) which is what most people wanted in the first place: dps guardians, the iconic class of this game, are getting taken off their shelves, dusted off and are being used again. And they're doing a lot of damage. But there are still plenty of other classes/specs that will wipe the floor with pure rage/focus specs in 1v1 fights. I don't see the focus/rage trend lasting; I am seeing a lot more operatives and deception sins running around on POT5.

 

I do agree that the upper vigilance tree probably needs some love.

Good post. I agree that Focus Guardians were a bit rare before 1.4, due to the frustration factor. Really good players who persevered were putting up insane numbers though.

That's why I think the tweak to Smash's timing was necessary, but the other buffs were a big overreach.

In 1v1's, with all their cooldowns available, the Focus Knight definitely has the edge right now, except for maybe an Operative that gets to open from stealth.

Good points about Vigilance, though. I really like this spec and want it to be viable, but it just isn't. Not in pvp, and it's not optimal in PvE either. Maybe it's on par with Focus, but why respec when you don't need to? If you play dps in PvE and PvP, you basically have to go Focus, and that's lame.

I still remember reading the class feedback thread, and there was mass consensus that Vigilance was under performing and Focus was very powerful when not thwarted. Yet we saw a Vigilance nerf and a focus buff. WTH are they thinking!?

Only reason to play Vig/Veng right now is if your getting frustrated by CC....Dmg wise its hurting but in many cases you just have more fun because you get to fight considerably more often and can stay up longer as well.

Ive had a couple long VS's and worked pretty hard only hitting just over 300k as Veng...If I were in my old Rage spec I could have dozed off and hit 425k plus...

If I can get past the horrid numbers Im putting up Playing Veng is just straight up more fun..... But the performance is pretty bad...and if there are healers on the opposing team GL killing a target without help. Why they nerfed Veng/Vig at all is a complete Mystery and totally stupid.

Now if they would have slightly buffed Veng/Vig Burst...and Fixed Smash delay only....No other Rage Buffs at all....that would have made sense.

Id still like to see a talent introduced for Veng/Vig that made DoT's heal....Im not ashamed to say I have Watchman Envy.

It is sad that Bioware doesn't listen to the community...

I see this a lot, and I guess what people don't realise is that the community doesn't speak with one voice. Everyone doesn't demand the same thing in unison. Even where most people would think an issue should go one way, they have different priorities - something else may be more important to them.

There is also the fact that members of the community sometimes demand ridiculous things.

Bioware can't grant the every player's every wish, if only because many are contradictory, and granting one would cancel another. Others are unrealistic, still more aren't widely held to be important. So they need to apply their own judgement.

Fine to say they judged something wrong, but the "y u no lissen Bioware?" complaints are overdone. If you get disappointed because game companies don't change their games to make you personally happy (and you should realise that your desires are not "the community's", however dearly you want them), you're going to be disappointed a lot.

While I think of it, and on the same subject, the class feedback threads asked for opinions on a couple of specific questions (how do you see your class? How do you feel others see your class?). They did not ask people to propose changes with the promise they would be implemented. So if your proposal wasn't implemented, then that's not Bioware breaking their word. Again, keep your expectations rational and you won't be disappointed so often.

And in case people imagine I think all is for the best in the best of all possible galaxies: Smash/Force Sweep damage seems way high; DPS Mercs aren't viable in ranked PvP; and we could really do with some kind of ranking system to save people from getting stomped by superior players (so we all have more fun and don't have to listen to ill-reasoned demands to nerf anything and everything but the poster). "Superior" here including anything that makes that player more effective in PvP.

I see this a lot, and I guess what people don't realise is that the community doesn't speak with one voice. Everyone doesn't demand the same thing in unison. Even where most people would think an issue should go one way, they have different priorities - something else may be more important to them.

 

There is also the fact that members of the community sometimes demand ridiculous things.

 

Bioware can't grant the every player's every wish, if only because many are contradictory, and granting one would cancel another. Others are unrealistic, still more aren't widely held to be important. So they need to apply their own judgement.

 

Fine to say they judged something wrong, but the "y u no lissen Bioware?" complaints are overdone. If you get disappointed because game companies don't change their games to make you personally happy (and you should realise that your desires are not "the community's", however dearly you want them), you're going to be disappointed a lot.

 

While I think of it, and on the same subject, the class feedback threads asked for opinions on a couple of specific questions (how do you see your class? How do you feel others see your class?). They did not ask people to propose changes with the promise they would be implemented. So if your proposal wasn't implemented, then that's not Bioware breaking their word. Again, keep your expectations rational and you won't be disappointed so often.

 

And in case people imagine I think all is for the best in the best of all possible galaxies: Smash/Force Sweep damage seems way high; DPS Mercs aren't viable in ranked PvP; and we could really do with some kind of ranking system to save people from getting stomped by superior players (so we all have more fun and don't have to listen to ill-reasoned demands to nerf anything and everything but the poster). "Superior" here including anything that makes that player more effective in PvP.

It is more a question of intelligence. Did rage need a dmg buff? Did the other warrior specs need nerfs? Does BW want everyone playing rage spec and ignoring every other spec in pvp for jugg/guard? A child would realize that what they did was moronic.

 

5. Merc is sort of alright, again they can heal so shouldn't be a top dps class in the game.

 

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but this just takes the cake. Really?

we need more of this involvement from you guys.

actually we need more involvement from YOU guys....how about you guys play this game for a few weeks then you can see first hand how out of wack it is.

It is more a question of intelligence. Did rage need a dmg buff? Did the other warrior specs need nerfs? Does BW want everyone playing rage spec and ignoring every other spec in pvp for jugg/guard? A child would realize that what they did was moronic.

Well, I wasn't really arguing the case for or against any particular buffs/nerfs. Rather that moans about Bioware "ignoring the community" are usually meaningless and often due to a false sense that an individual's personal, un-implementable desired changes represent the wider world's. A lot of complaints probably means somethign is worth checking over, but weight of whining (measured in kiloQQs?) isn't sufficient reason if the consequences would be bad.

Even if the company (insanely) decided to action every proposal you read on the forums, half of them would counteract each other. Most of the rest would be terrible ideas. Some would be good. But Bioware not doing everything people ask for is a Good Thing. I don't want flying pyro PTs with 40-yard napalm bombs. Not unless I can make their heads explode through the power of my mind, at least. But that might not be balanced.

Gone on too long again, Friday afternoon posts.

Focus/Rage Has Always Hit Hard. and Pre-1.2 it hit just as hard as it does now due to using adrenals and what not. The sweep is very easy to evade and if your ranged and standing there taking Melee Damage thats your own fault. Am I defending the spec? of Course I am, Because Gaurdians a lot of the time are left to Hold Nodes Alone and if we are in a 1v1 situation the spec right now keeps us competitive to other classes now. You just have to learn nott to stand still and take the boom.

Funny part about this statement is your still better off guarding a node solo as Veng/Vig because it has more defensive tools, and is actually better 1v1 across the board (but you have to use all the tools availible to the spec every fight)...Rage definately hard counters some classes in 1v1 but a heavy CC class will eat them up....Veng has a pretty solid chance against every AC in the game...and even if they lose they will put up a longer fight AKA more time for reinforcements to arrive.....

IF your solo guarding as Rage and a Sin/Shadow shows up they will kill you fast enough to cap before reinfocrements show up even if you call out as soon as they pop on you...

Only reason to play Vig/Veng right now is if your getting frustrated by CC....Dmg wise its hurting but in many cases you just have more fun because you get to fight considerably more often and can stay up longer as well.

 

Ive had a couple long VS's and worked pretty hard only hitting just over 300k as Veng...If I were in my old Rage spec I could have dozed off and hit 425k plus...

Okay, Vigilance's clearly inferior compared to Focus, no doubt, but some people really overstate it. I can do over 400k in a long Voidstar (I rarely see players do that amount of damage, normal warzones usually just don't last long enough) and 1) I'm not full War Hero yet, let alone fully optimized War Hero, 2) I'm an average player.

Vigilance might not be much useful for ranked warzones against fully optimized teams but in normal warzones it still performs well enough. The nerf to it was uncalled for and the buff to Focus was completely crazy but Vigilance is still an enjoyable spec to play and you still hit very hard with it. Also, with all the Ragemonkeys everywhere, you can bet people will try to CC you immediately after Force Leap, wasting a stun or a knockback. Or often both.

I read your post. My mercenary is Valor 95 and has been BIS for a long time. He would be valor 100 if I didn't stop playing him so much (just do daily now).

 

When I play my mercenary I feel like my hands are tied behind my back. I have no mobility/survivability, and my burst dps is not satisfying even with my BIS gear.

 

My deception assasin is wearing half recruit and half BM gear. I have greater burst dps/ mobility/ and just more utility in general. He is fun to play. Same thing with my Sentinel. Easy to kill people fast. Not stressful or hard to play at all. I can't even imagine how many heads would b rolling if I actually had BIS on either of these toons.

 

The problem is not just a gear gap. The classes are very unbalanced.

You pulled the Merc card ha, well done. Although with BiS on Arsenal you should be having crits of 5-6.5k with HSM and another 4-5k with instant follow up RS, that's huge burst. (I have one)

Yes deception is fun with easy burst, I assume it will be the next class people complain about because so many people rolled new ones. Juggs, Maras and Sins already make up most of WZ dps. That figure will probably increase.

 

IF your solo guarding as Rage and a Sin/Shadow shows up they will kill you fast enough to cap before reinfocrements show up even if you call out as soon as they pop on you...

Pre 1.4 that is the case, But not now, A Focus Guard can stand toe to toe 1v1 now against any class

You pulled the Merc card ha, well done. Although with BiS on Arsenal you should be having crits of 5-6.5k with HSM and another 4-5k with instant follow up RS, that's huge burst. (I have one)

 

Yes deception is fun with easy burst, I assume it will be the next class people complain about because so many people rolled new ones. Juggs, Maras and Sins already make up most of WZ dps. That figure will probably increase.

Yeah deception is fun and I will say I see more and more playing it (can you blame them it was fairly worthless prior to 1.4) but I really don't see many reaching high numbers and nothing compared to smash jugs or marauders and def not PT's even though I had someone tell me I should easily be able to out dps a pt/vanguard.

Well, I wasn't really arguing the case for or against any particular buffs/nerfs. Rather that moans about Bioware "ignoring the community" are usually meaningless and often due to a false sense that an individual's personal, un-implementable desired changes represent the wider world's. A lot of complaints probably means somethign is worth checking over, but weight of whining (measured in kiloQQs?) isn't sufficient reason if the consequences would be bad.

 

Even if the company (insanely) decided to action every proposal you read on the forums, half of them would counteract each other. Most of the rest would be terrible ideas. Some would be good. But Bioware not doing everything people ask for is a Good Thing. I don't want flying pyro PTs with 40-yard napalm bombs. Not unless I can make their heads explode through the power of my mind, at least. But that might not be balanced.

 

Gone on too long again, Friday afternoon posts.

Do you think it is right that the hardest hitting ability in the game is an area of effect? That it can crit multiple targets for upwards of 8k+, and regularly for 7k+? That it is instant and is guaranteed to crit?

I don't feel this can be argued in any way. Change it so the automatic crit is for the perosn you have targeted only. Reduce the damage. DO SOMETHING.

Can we deal with things the way they are? Sure. But that doesn't make Smash in its current form balanced in any way shape or form.

Do you think it is right that the hardest hitting ability in the game is an area of effect? That it can crit multiple targets for upwards of 8k+, and regularly for 7k+? That it is instant and is guaranteed to crit?

 

I don't feel this can be argued in any way. Change it so the automatic crit is for the perosn you have targeted only. Reduce the damage. DO SOMETHING.

 

Can we deal with things the way they are? Sure. But that doesn't make Smash in its current form balanced in any way shape or form.

read my original post in here, few pages back. your complaints regarding balance are about geared rage/focus only and not the majority of rage/focus players. bioware looks for balance in a class as well as game wide. balance between recruit and full BiS is a tough issues to deal with. Again, check out my post where I explain in slightly more detail

also if a rage/focus smashes 4 people... that's 4 people in the immediate area that could have done something to stop the smash.

So I guess you think Smash is balanced lol...gotcha.

where did i say that? i simply explained that you're complaining about a very small % of the player base. even further you are complaining about a small % of one tree of an advanced class. namely, those with BiS gear. this game is based on gear progression. A BiS smash on a BiS toon will have scaled damage, a BiS smash on anyone below BiS will cause increased damage. that's a game design decision (gear progression) and a complaint to be made game wide. it's a weak complaint about one tree of one class.

You pulled the Merc card ha, well done. Although with BiS on Arsenal you should be having crits of 5-6.5k with HSM and another 4-5k with instant follow up RS, that's huge burst. (I have one)

 

Yes deception is fun with easy burst, I assume it will be the next class people complain about because so many people rolled new ones. Juggs, Maras and Sins already make up most of WZ dps. That figure will probably increase.

Don't patronize me. I've been playing a Merc since launch and its not a "card" its a legit concern. I am also fully aware of what a merc can do since I have been BIS for months.

Classes are way out of balance. Its not just a gear gap. They are friggen waaay out of whack.

Don't patronize me. I've been playing a Merc since launch and its not a "card" its a legit concern. I am also fully aware of what a merc can do since I have been BIS for months.

 

Classes are way out of balance. Its not just a gear gap. They are friggen waaay out of whack.

there was no patronizing from me. i simply meant that bringing up how merc dps under-performs in pvp is the end all of any conversation in this forum. even if someone brings it up in a post about one ability for one tree that isn't merc