Preferred 2.6 MT and OT classes for certain Op bosses. Things changing? Thoughts?

Based soley on HM difficulty based solely on my opinion.

 

Nefra: N/A There is no main and off tank.

Drax: I'd still say it doesn't matter for main, sins excel offtanking here by helping dps and gathering adds.

Grob: PT main tanks definitely, dat hydraulic override. Sin offtanks with all those adds.

Corrupter. N/A no such thing and main and off, have to switch back and forth anyway.

Brontes: Sins are the best main tanks for this fight hands down. They also are stupid easy in the hybrid tank spec. Offtank doesn't matter.

 

Bestia: Sin tanks are the best at keeping the boss. they can abuse force shroud and stealth to not get any stacks on them. Off again doesn't matter

Tyrans: I'd go out on a limb and say Juggys are the best main tanks, but again if you're switching back and forth it doesn't matter. Offtanks again doesn't matter.

Calph: No opinion, face roll boss on any tank.

Raptus: PT by a far margin thanks again to hydraulic override, passive mitigation and oil slick. I'd say this fight is pretty weak for assassins, so I'd say juggy as the offtank.

Council: Ehhhh this one is the most subjective. No opinion is right really. Sins are probably the most helpful in the soft enrage with their debuffs and sin shelter.

Hmmm, for tyrans i would say jugg/pt tbh. When your cooldowns are on cooldown you can get heavy spikes by the turbulance as a sin/shadow.

For grobbie i wouldnt so easely discard shadows either. Resilience on the roar is pretty good and force speed lets you run acros as fast or faster than htl. If you get pipesmashed mid forcespeed you were just to slow ;-)

Brontes i would say pt since hammershot is so handy on the handphase where you get the knockback galore.

 

About the stealthing out on bestia to avoid stacks, when do you do it and when you taunt her back? I was aware of reslience during the channel to avoid getting stacks.

Hmmm, for tyrans i would say jugg/pt tbh. When your cooldowns are on cooldown you can get heavy spikes by the turbulance as a sin/shadow.

For grobbie i wouldnt so easely discard shadows either. Resilience on the roar is pretty good and force speed lets you run acros as fast or faster than htl. If you get pipesmashed mid forcespeed you were just to slow ;-)

Brontes i would say pt since hammershot is so handy on the handphase where you get the knockback galore.

 

About the stealthing out on bestia to avoid stacks, when do you do it and when you taunt her back? I was aware of reslience during the channel to avoid getting stacks.

I have main tanked grob and yea it's not bad to force speed and get one pipe smash off consistently, but PT hydraulic override make it faceroll when you can just run right through it and not get stuck. As a sin you have to at least go around it to drag him in.

 

Brontes six finger phase is much easier with a sin tank in hybrid spec. I'm not joking when I say you take less than 5k hits each slam until they start building the stacks on the hand. All of brontes moves are AoE the only move that isn't AoE in the entire fight is the fingers shots in the first phase and the droids in the third.

 

You let the stacks fall on a dps or the other tank then taunt back. One stack won't even remotely hurt them and you'll probably have 20 seconds of freedom on the boss.

Edited February 24, 2014 by mastirkal

If you're getting more than one pipe smash there's something quite wrong ^_^ I'm always main tanking grob. Pipe smash is the least of my worries tbh (well the whole fight is the least of my worries...)

 

Could someone go a bit more into detail on how to solo tank bestia? Can't find any video of it

Edited February 24, 2014 by Kawabonga

If you're getting more than one pipe smash there's something quite wrong ^_^ I'm always main tanking grob. Pipe smash is the least of my worries tbh (well the whole fight is the least of my worries...)

 

Could someone go a bit more into detail on how to solo tank bestia? Can't find any video of it

 

It's not possible to solo tank unless you have a dps in group who has a taunt. First time you can shroud, second time you can stealth, third time you can shroud, fourth time you need to either swap or have a dps take that stack for you and then you're able to repeat. This is ideal however, the boss is very strange sometimes and applies the dots faster than she should. I've had myself get stacks through my shroud and then immediately upon tank swap put the dots on my co-tank before I am even part way through more third stack.

Edited February 24, 2014 by mastirkal

Jugg tanks are by far the worst for Tyrans, due to their built-in weakness in the face of force/tech damage. Given how much of the fight is tied up in Thundering Blast (which cannot be Saber Reflected), they tend to take the most damage here by a pretty wide margin. They also tend to spike the most consistently due to very low shield chance.

 

Aside from that, I mostly agree with the list given. It is an important caveat to put forth that any combination of tanks can clear all of the content. The only pair of tanks which is strongly disadvantaged is Jugg-Jugg, due to the lack of damage debuff. Anything other than that combo is going to do just fine.

 

My personal favorite combination is Assassin-Juggernaut, since I don't like having to use Discharge in rotation and the value of the armor debuff is not to be underestimated. Also, Jugg cooldowns, mobility and passive DR do a nice job of covering for all of the weaknesses of an Assassin, while the Assassin utility, threat, different cooldowns and different mobility options cover the weaknesses of the Jugg.

 

I am, however, currently running Shadow-Vanguard and am quite happy with it. Riot Gas is outstanding, Vanguard DR is even better than Guardian's, and the threat and damage are very strong. The only annoying downside is I have to apply the accuracy debuff. :-)

 

Severity Gaming and Hatred are both very vocal in their support for Jugg-Powertech as their tanking combo. As I said, very viable, and definitely bringing some things that the Assassin-based combos cannot handle (e.g. both of the tanks are high-passive mitigation tanks, and both have leaps).

 

Double Assassin is probably the most viable of the "doubled" combos, since Assassins bring both the damage debuff and the accuracy debuff, are no longer noticeably more spiky than Juggernauts and bring a full suite of cooldowns. However, I wouldn't run double Assassin in preference to another combo unless the assassins in question were simply better than the other players that I could draw from.

 

Double PT has its perks (e.g. Riot Gas up for 30 seconds out of every 45!), but it does lack a static accuracy debuff, some snap threat and defensive cooldowns. The passive damage reduction is outstanding though, and this is definitely a decent combo to go with if your healers are married to the idea of very steady, always-on tank damage.

Nefra : Pt is nice for oil slick, offtank can be jug or sin or pt

 

Draxus : Pt or sin for bosstank, Jugger for offtank ( 8sec interupt, saber reflect, armor debuff on most adds)

 

Grobthok : Sin or pt for bosstank, any tank for adds ( however juggs can also easily tank Grob with only 1 pipe smash coming through)

 

Corruptor : Doesnt really matter, Jugg is nice for the adds with saber reflect, he can also reflect chest laser from the boss so i kinda preferr him here

 

Brontes : Sin + Jugger to nullfy the orb ( Force shroud + saber reflect)

 

 

Bestia : Sin for cleansing himself, Pt or jugg as ot

Tyrans : Doesnt matter

Calphayus : none preferred

Raptus : Jugger bc he can use enraged defense in the challenge ( comes out with 95%) can use saber reflect when force execution comes. Ot : pt for oil slick

Council : Jugger for sonic barrier + saber reflect on last phase. Ot: Sin for cleansing himself

Edited February 24, 2014 by Methoxa

Hatred is very vocal in their support for Jugg-Powertech as their tanking combo. As I said, very viable, and definitely bringing some things that the Assassin-based combos cannot handle (e.g. both of the tanks are high-passive mitigation tanks, and both have leaps).

 

A group has ran Anakyn and Thiol for almost the last year and some months. That does not mean the guild as as a whole are only supportive of that combo or prefers that combo, though. Both B and C have Sin tanks in them and I'd like to say I'm pretty good at what I do.

 

Severity is a bit easier to nail to this combo because they only have one raid group being their 16 man.

Edited February 24, 2014 by mastirkal

For 8M HM / NiM we have always run Shadow-Guardian or Shadow-Vanguard. For 16M HM and NiM we run Shadow-Vanguard which is a rather odd combination, especially for thrasher NiM where the vang needs to aim his aoe taunt, whereas guardians and shadows can use their area taunt as they please. Shadow-Vanguard is interesting in terms of access to cooldowns and not in terms of performance.

 

 

Choosing a main tank and an offtank comes down to this :

 

1. Luxury to cherry pick the tank composition or go with what you have. We don't have the luxury to pick so we are stuck with Shadow-Vanguard. I would love a Shadow - Guardian combination but we are not in that boat.

2. Player skill and experience. If the players tanking and the healers do not have a good synergy with their class, you are better off excluding a shadow tank as main or offtank and going with Guardians/Vanguards. Shadows have a HP threshold you need to maintain and if your healers are not able to maintain that in times the player needs to save a cooldown for a later date, you won't enjoy having a shadow tank in your team.

3. Aggro. Do you prefer to give the tanks a few seconds to generate threat or you are trigger happy and expect the tank to hold aggro from the moment everyone jumped on the boss. In my guild, for example, they start on Tyrans, in 16M HM, with inspiration, boundless ages relic exploit, adrenals, etc and they expect my tank to hold aggro. In terms of aggro, Shadows are always superior to other tank classes.

1. agree

 

2. agree

 

3. Every tank can hold aggro the first 10-20 seconds when the big burst happens. Its called a tauntrotation. Tank A pulls the boss uses singel taunt ---> rotation. When the single taunt wears off he does his masstaunt ( if the bosstactic allows it) when the masstaunt of tank A wears off Tank B uses his single taunt -->rotation. After his single taunt wears off he uses masstaunt. Besides all classes can do 3k tps sustained even when they dont follow their rotation perfectly. All tanks can have burst tps for the first ten seconds of the fight ( Jugger = saber reflect, Sins = recklessness, only pts dont have that much burst tps burst their sustained tps is better). Basically no tanks needs time to build up enough threat. Besides in nim's you dont have time to waste. Dont let your dps use their detaunt the first time they get aggro but after the taunt of the tank also helps a lot.

 

But what i see often are flaws in the rotation. If a juggertank engages the target without using enrage before and uses sundering assault as first attack ( to build up rage, but low threat generation) it should be clear why he cant hold aggro. Therefore enrage-->single taunt-->St-->Force charge-->smash-->(ret)-->Crushing-->Ret-->Fs--->(ret)-->Backhand-->masstaunt--->Ravage--->(ret)-->Sa and so on. Gives you 6-7k burst tps 3k+ sustained. Bc there are dps who do 4k sustained they will get aggro thats why you use taunt to overtake their threat. Meleedps need 10% more threat to get aggro. So in the first 10 second you might have build 50k threat and a dps 40k. In 10 seconds youll have equal threat, if the dps is at 54.999k threat and tank is at 50k that would be the ideal time to taunt. Tank taunted and now has 54.999k and the dps also. So the threat doesnt change, but what changes is the amount of threat a dps has to generate. in that example the dps needed to do 55k threat to get aggro, but if the tank has 500k threat and the dps also the dps has to do 50k more threat in order to get aggro. Its still 10% but the absolute value is higher = The longer the bossfight the easier to maintain aggro for the tank. Ofc you can give the tank 1 -20 seconds in order to maintain aggro, but that only leads to the point that dps will get aggro 1-20 seconds later, if the tank does no tauntrotation. This only is accurate on single target fights. Most progress guilds let basically their dps pull the bosses with their big hits. Pre sniper nerf we counted from 10 to 0. At 6 snipers precasted their orb+adrenal+ambush ( pull here) + rotation. A tank asking for some time in order to maintain aggro is not playing his rotation perfectly.

 

Sorry i kinda wrote more than i wanted. But i dont like commands like "give the tank some time".

Sorry i kinda wrote more than i wanted. But i dont like commands like "give the tank some time".

 

Me too. When I hear "give the tank some time", I interpret it as "we have no confidence in the tank". Sometimes that's the tank's fault, and sometimes the raid leader is just ignorant. Either way, it's super-frustrating. When I tank, I want my DPS to blow everything and hard-core strain to pull off me. If they succeed, I want them to feel good about themselves, because it should be an accomplishment noteworthy for its rarity.

 

In my guild, we call it the "exciting agro game". Though, this is often the sub-variation of the game where the DPS in question is unguarded. :-)

Contrary to popular belief, holding aggro is as much art as parsing 3800 with your damage dealer class. Guardians and Vanguards who can hold aggro at all times have my utmost respect. This leads me back to my point about player-class synergy. A good player can hold aggro on all tanks but in my honest opinion, shadows have the easiest job at holding aggro provided you understand how the rotation, procs and fillers can help you out. An example, here a 16M HM run with Not Good Enough-Rebel Dream-Outbreak, I have no issues holding aggro with my shadow on Tyrans. Cryptica, 3800 DPS Ataru sentinel managed to tickle the boss, unguarded, but it was for less than 1s and as you can see, this happened at the same time my single taunt entered the rotation. Tyrans turned for such a short time, nobody even noticed, and nobody took damage. So again, choosing a main tank and offtank is not as easy as some make it.

Grob: PT main tanks definitely, dat hydraulic override. Sin offtanks with all those adds.

Corrupter. N/A no such thing and main and off, have to switch back and forth anyway.

 

Tyrans: I'd go out on a limb and say Juggys are the best main tanks, but again if you're switching back and forth it doesn't matter. Offtanks again doesn't matter.

Calph: No opinion, face roll boss on any tank.

Raptus: PT by a far margin thanks again to hydraulic override, passive mitigation and oil slick. I'd say this fight is pretty weak for assassins, so I'd say juggy as the offtank.

Don't discount Juggs for Grob, I MT him without hassle on my Jugg(and I usually only hit one or two pipe smashes too). I think any tank can do decently as the off-tank too, it just requires more skill and luck with Jugg to tank the adds.(this is subject to change if something like a speed decrease is given to the tank on Grob in NiM though :\ )

 

I would also say that Assassins are the best for Corrupter also because of their high shield/absorb for ranged mode and high defense for melee mode. Can also Discharge the melee adds to help DPS without having to move the boss awkwardly. Maybe PT/Sin best combo for this, with Oil Slick used on cooldown when adds spawn.

 

Sins must be the best tank for Tyrans because if they get inferno they can speed away and this fight is primarily force damage taken which can only be shielded.

 

I would say Jugg and PT are the best combo for Cal, Oil Slick and Saber Reflect & Ward against all defense is awesome. Assassins using Phase Walk for final phase is nice, but Intercede/leaps do the job well enough. Juggs are probably unmatched in the first two phases due to the armor debuff from Smash on adds/multiple crystals as well.

 

Raptus is the best fight for PT/Assassin because you are mostly sitting in one spot for most of the fight until you have to move over slightly for a little bit, making Oil Slick very viable. Assassins being able to Force Shroud and Juggs being able to reflect Force Execution is nice too.

Edited February 25, 2014 by OMGITSJAD

Shadows indeed generate more threat as juggers do. But do be honest if your dps are good none of the tanking classes can hold aggro without using taunt. Dps do 5-6k or more the very first ten seconds. No tank can generate that much threat. The only exception would be a jugger tank who uses saber reflect right after pull. But not all bosses are reflected. Thresher nm for example can be reflected resulting in 10k tps before the first adds spawn. Other bosses attacks are too slow or not reflected so that saber reflect has not this big impact.

 

All of the tanking classes can reach 1.4k dps ( for juggs its harder than for pts and assas) @ nefra. resulting into a 3k tps. Which means dps tps is always bigger than the tanks. Meaning you have to be ahead with your threat as a tank which only can be done with taunt, bc taunt sets your threat equal with the person who has the highers threat. After that the person who had the highest threat should use his/her detaunt. Basically :

 

Taunt --->(6 sec of rotation)-->Masstaunt ( dps should detaunt)-->rotation

 

 

On tyrans fight the beginning tank would use his 2 taunts. After that the other tank uses his single taunt and his masstaunt. When Simplification comes the beginning tank can use his single taunt to get the boss back..

Thats the way we do it, ofc you can alternate the tauntrotation.

 

 

I would never prefer an assasin over a jug for raptus. Still seeing bis sin tanks who get killed bc of force execution + the other big attack in 2 seconds. A jugger is @100% after force execution when he times his def cd's with each force execution. Giving the healers an easy time. A sin wihtout force shroud rdy will be at 60% after force execution and needs to be healed to atleast 80% for the big hit of raptus that comes 2 seconds after force execution.

 

Btw. Force damage can either be shielded or be dodged ( if it is energy/kinetic) or not be mitgated by defstats ( if it is elemtal/internal). But there is to my knowledge no attacktype that can only be shielded but not dodged. And yes tyrans can be dodged^^. Otherwise i would take more than 900dtps @ tyrans 8hm. But also my parsers proof that he can be dodged. The only thing that cant be dodged are his dot and his aoe. But this is just 36% of the damage tyrans does. The other 64% can be shielded and dodged. While the 36% can not be shielded nor dodged.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Methoxa

All tanks can have burst tps for the first ten seconds of the fight ( Jugger = saber reflect, Sins = recklessness, only pts dont have that much burst tps burst their sustained tps is better).

 

Oh PTs have an amazing opening threat, so long as they carry an attack adrenal

 

It goes:

 

1. Load shoulder cannon - if you are bored enough, abuse the respec trick to get a 5th missile loaded (respeccing to AP lets you load 7 missiles instantly, but using the first one sets it to 4) as well as 3 stacks of PFT to start the fight (you can do this if you are quick enough)

2. Activate Jet Charge

3. Activate Explosive Fuel (+25% crit chance) + Nano-Infused Attack Adrenal (+625 power)

4. If you did the trick for 3 stacks of PFT, use Flamethrower here

5. Spam shoulder cannon

6. Rocket Punch -> Flame Sweep -> Rail Shot -> Flame Sweep -> Flamethrower (@Flame Engine) -> Flame Burst + Heat Blast

 

You have now done Ludicrous threat, and no one should catch up unless you accidentally threat drop.

 

It does require a bit of shenanigans with respeccing for maximum value, though you can pull it off without said shenanigans.

 

Anyway, these are how i'd say each combo works in the HM dread ops right now, as well as highlighting the best one:

 

Brief summary of what they bring (any fight-specific abilities will be brought up later):

 

GUARDIAN

Provides Armor Debuff

Provides Accuracy Debuff

Guardianship for raid-wide shield temporarily

 

VANGUARD

Provides 5% damage Reduction

Provides 30% accuracy debuff with 28.3% uptime (17 second duration with set bonus, 60 second cooldown. No one gets this right)

 

SHADOW

Provides 5% Damage Reduction (non-hybrid)

Provides 5% Accuracy Reduction

Provides +5% heals output

 

NEFRA

 

Additional Notes: Shadows can cleanse themself of the DoT in this fight

 

Best Primary Tank: Vanguard for the 30% accuracy debuff that stacks with the other debuff

Best Secondary Tank: Hybrid Shadow due to self-cleanses. Vanguards should guard the shadow cause its gonna be dropping its threat a lot anyway, and the guard provides +5% DR.

 

DRAXUS

 

Additional notes:

GUARDIAN - Saber Reflect gets rid of Draxus's 'cull' attack (im calling it that cause it sounds like Cull on my sniper) and throws it back into him. He can also exploit the puzzle sequence beforehand allowing everyone to go left instead of forcing everyone to split up.

SHADOW - Has the ability to self-cleanse

Vanguard - Ranged AoE taunt, 30m Auto-attack.

 

Best Primary Tank: Guardians work best for tanking draxus because they can negate his strongest hit and instead hit him with it.

Best Secondary Tank: Vanguards due to a combination of its high mobility, ranged auto-attack and AoE taunt, 8-second interrupt and as always, Riot Gas

 

GROB'THOK

Additional Notes: Vanguards Hold the Line prevents bouncing from Pipe Smash and Grob'thoks mostly AoE attacks heal it

 

Best Primary Tank: Vanguards for their ease of negating most of the fights mechanics and their heals on AoE damage. And of course, Riot Gas.

Best Secondary Tank: Either should work well here, i'd be more inclined to take a shadow here though because of Shadows Shelter.

 

CORRUPTOR ZERO

Additional Notes: Force Pull can be used to help with add control more easily.

 

Best Primary Tank: Well this fight doesn't really have a 'primary' tank due to the mechanics, but i'd be inclined to say a shadow for it, due to its self-cleanse and force pull to help with adds management, as well as shadows shelter due to the heals-intensiveness of this fight. Vanguards technically provide the pulls as well, but thats available to DPS VGs so you dont need to specifically bring the VG tank for it..

 

Best Secondary Tank: Guardians, as they can AoE Taunt + Saber Reflect during the ranged adds phase to cause them to kill themselves instead of your healers - also their AoE taunt provides the shield that helps mitigate damage from the billions of adds.

 

BRONTES

Additional Notes:

Guardians can saber reflect and jump into the orbs to avoid all damage

Shadows can Resilience and jump into the orbs to avoid all damage. Can also self-cleanse corrupted nanites

Vanguards can use Hold the Line to prevent Knockback from the hands in their final phase, while also causing brontes to spend ages trying to throw you back in the final phase while it doesn't work.

 

SUGGESTED TANKS

Guardian/Shadow or Vanguard/Shadow are probably the best combos here. I'm inclined to say VG/Shadow because thats self-class bias, but what each class brings individually goes against what I want to be the truth.

 

 

DP COMING SOON-ISH

Edited February 25, 2014 by TACeMossie

Attack adrenals are hardly an option for a tank. I didnt say pts dont have any burst tps but they dont have that much burst tps. My jugger can do 11k tps the first 5 seconds, a sin can do 7-8k tps. Pt's have their 4k bursttps and 3k+ sustained.

Attack adrenals are hardly an option for a tank. I didnt say pts dont have any burst tps but they dont have that much burst tps. My jugger can do 11k tps the first 5 seconds, a sin can do 7-8k tps. Pt's have their 4k bursttps and 3k+ sustained.

 

I actually got the idea off KBN cause I was having trouble holding threat against the TFB's first tentacle (and my AoE taunt would sometimes glitch up and get both of them) and he mentioned a guildy (who used a Guardian) would use an attack adrenal in the first phase to help hold threat.

 

The thing is, shoulder cannon has a 2.3 times threat multiplier, and combining the explosive fuel buff, the attack adrenal, and the self-heals tied in with shoulder cannon (5% per missile), you tend to get pretty obscene threat generation - while you do say its a 4k tps, the shoulder cannon alone will be giving 3k tps and its off the GCD. VGs are probably a little closer to 5k tps burst, and I have constantly pulled off other tanks just with my opener I linked before without even needing to taunt (also I typically dont do the fancy respec shenanigans mentioned in my previous post, though they are there if I ever start having threat issues).

 

EDIT - maths and a parse has shown that, in the burst opening, you'll be getting 4k tps from shoulder cannon alone (Gear that is half way between underworld and dread forged in optimisation)

Edited February 25, 2014 by TACeMossie

You are pulling aggro bc the other tank has less threat than you, his bursttps in the beginning might still be higher but his sustained tps ( seen over the whole fight) might be lower therefore at some point youll get aggro. Besides you cant compare medicore tanks with yourself ( i guess you are a more advanced tank as you think about threat and can actually write usefull threads). I've seen juggernaut tanks who start with force charge + sundering assault. Thats totally wrong ( not enough tps, not enough defs and so on) because they dont read tooltips. If they would they would at least start with enrage + force charge + sundering assault. Then at some point they will realize that they have enough rage with enrage to do the bigger hits. So eventually they will move sundering assault in the last position of their rotation. Maybe they will even realize that sweeping slash does more threat per rage than vicious slash. Implementing all these things and some other who are not mentioned here will change their burst tps from 2k tps to 6k tps and their sustained from 2.4k tps to 3.5k tps.

 

Regarding Tfb. I didnt use an attack adrenal, but a tauntrotation ( if your standing in the opposite direction of the other tentacle your masstaunt shouldnt hit it thus position yourself so you character is always on the side where the water is). As the masstaunt of a pt works in another way ( the aoe radius is not where the char is but where the target is) it might be a little tricky. Communicating with your other tank is vital here so he can taunt back his tentacle.

A thing you could use would be a pyro grenade, it does good dmg and leaves a dot, problem is its aggro doesnt seem to be effected by your tankstance therefore it generates only x1 aggro. Maybe its even an option to use the attack adrenal, but i would prefer a rakkata armour adrenal to prevent dmg and prior my tauntrotation as the use of an attack adrenal might give you maximum 1k extra threat. So if a dps gets aggro hell get it with and without the use of the attack adrenal. But i would rahter take the risk of taunting both tentacles than using an attack adrenal over an rakkata or absorb adrenal

 

As jugger tank i have for example a 41 ap crystal in my hilt. This rises my mitgation a little mit (sonic wall+sonic barrier) and gives me more tps ( which are not really needed) at the cost of 510 hp ( i am at 41.400 atm). In my eyes ap is more beneficial for juggers, maybe you can think about doing the same.

 

Ok maybe pts can do 5k opening bursttps. Its still low compared to the other tanks and low compared to the tps the dps do in their opening rotation.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Methoxa

All of the tanking classes can reach 1.4k dps ( for juggs its harder than for pts and assas) @ nefra. resulting into a 3k tps.

 

Not quite. All of the tanks have abilities which have extra threat built into them (though, vanguards have the least). I can reach 1.3k DPS on a dummy without shield/defense procs (i.e. lacking 30% of my force regen). That same parse had almost 3k TPS, due to the extra threat multipliers on Slow Time, Project and Force Breach. Based on calculations on tank dummy-vs-boss parsing that I've done in the past, that puts my boss TPS at nearly 3.9k without taunting, which is enough to keep ahead of any DPS on a boss (since even concealment and pyro aren't parsing 4k+ on any boss without adds).

Would like to put the notion that powertechs have poor snap threat to rest right here:

 

Powertechs most likely have the highest potential snap threat (given that there is ONE threat race, not many such as with last boss tfb and mini kephesses brontes) in other words with all cooldowns available (while assassin will have a large advantage in areas with multiple threat races due to good consistency)

 

now here are two logs from a powertech vs an assassin. Both of these are ideal logs in that there are no resists and a fair amount of crits (all ticks of the force lightning crit and the second shock was an energized shock) There are 11 global cooldowns used in each (so i'm ignoring the time). Here are the logs and i'm looking at the first trial from each log in this specific case.

http://www.torparse.com/a/591907

http://www.torparse.com/a/591926

 

I also had the armor debuff on the boss the operations dummy for both tanks...

 

The gear

Assassin- 2652 Mainstat, Power+force power =2237

Powertech- 2643 Mainstat, Power+tech power= 2235(mainstat BEFORE the points into increased aim)

 

I didn't use taunts (figured since both tanks have taunts they would cancel eachother out, and I didn't want to artificially boost one over the other by taunting later because I knew there would be some rng for the powertech rotation) (and this is not me saying either tank holds threat without taunts, just me removing a variable)

 

Final threat : assassin 66347 Powertech : 76857

 

 

that's on the one trial I'm looking at... I had done several trials and didn't want to go looking through the dozens of logs I did in the opener, but the average over three similar trials was Assassin- 66.3k threat

Powertech- 73k threat.

 

Typing this here so you don't have to look through if I did a poor rotation:

Assassin: (numbers are global cooldowns)

1.Force pull

2. Shock

3.Wither

4. Discharge

5. Thrash

6. Shock

7.Reckless force lightning

8. Still channeling lightning

9. Wither

10. Shock

11. Discharge

 

Powertech: (numbers are global cooldowns)

1. Rocket punch

2. Rail shot

3. Thermal sensor override +flame thrower

4. Still channeling flame thrower

5. Flame burst

6. Flame burst

7. Rocket punch

8. Flame thrower (flame engine proc- only 1 global cooldown this time)

9. Flame burst.

10. Flame burst.

11. Flame burst

(shoulder cannon and heat blast were used as available when not channeling flame thrower totaling 1 heat blast 4 hits of shoulder cannon)

 

 

point of post: not to say that it matters that one tank is higher than the other because assassins do hold threat regardless with using the two taunts, but please people stop saying that vanguards/pts have poor snap threat, because they don't (and on my server I hear some people say that using it as an excuse when they lost threat- which annoys me as well)

Edited February 25, 2014 by Rebel_Guy

You need to delay your Powertech opener by a GCD for Storm, otherwise it isn't a fair comparison. Very few bosses open instantly at melee range.

 

With that said, I agree with the premise. Due to the combination of Explosive Fuel and Shoulder Cannon, powertechs have amazingly good snap threat. I'm not sure if it's better or worse than an assassin, but it's darn close if nothing else. It is a little more RNG-dependent due to procs though, which is unfortunate, but ultimately even poor RNG will still leave plenty of space ahead of the DPS.

I never said pts had a poor snap threat, but compared to Jugger who can use saber reflect and Sins who use recklessnes ( your friendsin tank didnt use it therefore his snap threat was worse) pts are a little less good. Nevertheless the difference might be 1-2k tps the first 5 seconds, then pts win with their sustained tps as thats maybe the highest sustained tps tank class

 

Kbn in your previous post you wrote you did 3.9k tps. Your right dps dont get aggro with those tps values. But in the first 5 seconds dps do up to 9k dps which can give every tank problems. Therefore a tauntrotation should be done.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Methoxa

Kbn in your previous post you wrote you did 3.9k tps. Your right dps dont get aggro with those tps values. But in the first 5 seconds dps do up to 9k dps which can give every tank problems. Therefore a tauntrotation should be done.

 

Agreed. I do taunt fluff in my opener, and usually I'll lose threat for a split second between my single taunt and my AoE (during the last tick of my Telekinetic Throw). On some bosses like Titan VI, where the DPS can just squat and channel dummy-style, or TfB where the DPS are in melee range, I will follow up with a third taunt. Otherwise, I just rely on those first two taunts plus my rotation to hold threat.

I never said pts had a poor snap threat, but compared to Jugger who can use saber reflect and Sins who use recklessnes ( your friendsin tank didnt use it therefore his snap threat was worse) pts are a little less good. Nevertheless the difference might be 1-2k tps the first 5 seconds, then pts win with their sustained tps as thats maybe the highest sustained tps tank class

 

Kbn in your previous post you wrote you did 3.9k tps. Your right dps dont get aggro with those tps values. But in the first 5 seconds dps do up to 9k dps which can give every tank problems. Therefore a tauntrotation should be done.

I wasn't actually pointing into anybody in particular nor trying to start an argument so no worries there. But i'm not sure what you mean by I didn't use recklessness, because I did- and all four ticks crit.

 

Also note the underlined most likely, because I knew there may be some debate by how it's set up (though having to use jetcharge, or grapple for starting certain bosses (like tyrans on the throne) really only means that you use one less flame burst and lowers the total threat by replacing the flame burst threat by the less threat gapcloser/pull. (as a side note I noticed DFA/mortar volley does about the same as flame thrower without the armor debuff, and a little bit more with the armor debuff- so it is actually a decent replacement for an unprocced flamethrower if you get bad rng and flame engine procs right away[ though use with caution, since it's sometimes annoying to aim at a boss unless they have a large hitbox with the minimum range required to use it and if you're sitting there trying to aim it then it'll just defeat the purpose as you lose threat in that process -_-])

Edited February 25, 2014 by Rebel_Guy