First, a little about me. Contrary to some of my other posts (at this point, lying about my age is just what I'm used to... and has become a bad habit) I'm a 17 year old guy who wants to meet like-minded people around the world. I have no problem behaving like a mature adult, because honestly my experiences so far in life have added up (in my own and others' opinions) to a maturity beyond my age.

 

Now, I totally understand that there ARE some very young kids who like to game, and that some are rather annoying (trust me, I played Runescape for 9 years).

 

But the responses of the Adult community, while understandable, are not all the fair in my opinion.

 

I find myself having to constantly lie about my age to get into an "adult only" guild setting because over the course of 4-5 different MMOs I've been denied access to the most prestigious guilds for being honest.

 

I'll be the first to say I have my immature moments, just like every other young adult... but I'm here to 1, have fun (which doesn't involve immaturity per say), 2, meet new people, and 3, make progress in-game with friends.

 

I'm dedicated, loyal, and active. I try my best to be myself while at the same time expanding my awareness of how my actions affect others.

 

It's... frustrating and makes me feel guilty to have to lie to people I want to become friends with in order to be accepted by them.

 

MMOs are all about being social! Hence the name.

 

,.~^~.,

 

I dislike complaining as well, so just so everyone knows, this thread was created purely for responses from the 18+ community on my opinions and thoughts. I would love to hear constructive feedback on my predicament and whatever else comes to mind.

 

I will be 18 in less than 2 months, but I was recently told to wait the remaining time before I could apply to a guild I've wanted to join.

Frankly, Age requirements are stupid. I think we've all met adults who are less mature than some of your high school class mates were. It's just that Age requirements are a shorthand for weeding out people who want to join (Although, frankly, you're getting people who are over the age requirement, which doesn't tell you much, and people who are under it and lied to you, which is a minor black mark against them).

 

And, I have to ask, what do these people mean by maturity? No Trash Talking? Never indulges in a little bit of silliness? Will show up regularly to scheduled events (actually seems easier for younger people, because RL will have less surprises for them)?

Every 18+ guild/group I've been in has had the same reason for their age restriction. If you're under 18, there can be legal ramifications for swearing/saying suggestive language in the same chat as you.

As a 40 year old adult, I will tell you why I support age requirements: I don't have to watch my mouth. You may think this is a little thing. But I try my hardest to not cuss or use adult oriented humor around children. Call me old fashioned (and yes I know you hear worse in school, I did too), but you do not need to be hearing it from my mouth and I do not want to have to waste time making sure everyone is of age before I tell an off color joke. This to me is the only reason for age requirements, as adults can (and probably are) be less mature than some 17 year olds.

But the responses of the Adult community, while understandable, are not all the fair in my opinion.

 

Shocking...a 17 year old kid complaining about what is "fair."

And, I have to ask, what do these people mean by maturity? No Trash Talking? Never indulges in a little bit of silliness? Will show up regularly to scheduled events (actually seems easier for younger people, because RL will have less surprises for them)?

 

Well, I think the meaning of maturity varies between the different games. For example, in Runescape I led a council of 4 people, who in turn led a group of guilds (in that game known as clans) with roughly 2.5k total individuals as part of it. We had a major problem with childish arguments occurring quite a lot. Silly things like personal disagreements over who was the best "god" in the game actually becoming so disproportionate that myself and the other heads of the union had to break up (and that was a very bad problem because for the very same reason that the kids respected us- rising to the point of leading that large a group; it also meant that we had many more important issues to deal with).

 

Now there's a fair example of extreme immaturity, but rare to find in the respected and more expensive game like this. I'm not so sure why they're worried about it.

 

In major games like SWTOR, I almost never find a group of people who have any problems with maturity at all. Yes you find the occasional troll, but I doubt that comes down to age... more or less just a general dissatisfaction.

 

Point being-

 

I can only speculate; I really don't have a good answer to that as I'm not an adult leader of an adult-only guild. Hopefully one of those people will decide to post and explain their reasoning.

 

So can anyone answer the question? What does maturity mean? (specifically pertaining to the MMO community)

you have played runescape since you were 8????

 

 

do you not have parents?

As a 40 year old adult, I will tell you why I support age requirements: I don't have to watch my mouth. You may think this is a little thing. But I try my hardest to not cuss or use adult oriented humor around children. Call me old fashioned (and yes I know you hear worse in school, I did too), but you do not need to be hearing it from my mouth and I do not want to have to waste time making sure everyone is of age before I tell an off color joke. This to me is the only reason for age requirements, as adults can (and probably are) be less mature than some 17 year olds.

 

That's a legitimate reason. However, could there be an alternative to filtering that way? Why not in the guild application, just give a warning that the conversations that may or may not occur could contain adult language?

 

Just as an example, children choose to watch TV-MA shows (South Park, Tosh.0, etc). They can't blame the show for ruining their innocence, it was their choice to watch it. The simple fact that there was a warning about it (even in fine print- it wouldn't matter) would protect if not justify the adults responsible for the content.

 

Yes, I realize that for many people, it just isn't acceptable no matter what the circumstances to do something you consider to be unethical.

 

So I have one question. What difference is there between a 17 year old with under 2 months to go till 18, and 18 itself? (keeping in mind that the 18 years of age= adult law does not exist world-wide).

you have played runescape since you were 8????

 

 

do you not have parents?

 

Actually since I was 7, I stopped early last year. And what do parents have to do with it?

I've been in guilds with and without age restrictions. Tbh, my fondest memories are of the 30+ guild in WoW I was an officer in. Obviously we had an age restriction, 30 or older, though we made some exceptions for people 25+. The age restriction had nothing to do with a maturity requirement. It did however provide a refreshing guildchat, with like-minded people more or less at the same stage in life, i.e. having jobs, families, responsibilities in general versus students or even younger ones. And when on Friday night, oldskool raid night, many of us got pleasantly boozy and the guildchat turned highly X-rated, at least there weren't young ones around to learn from bad examples

Every 18+ guild/group I've been in has had the same reason for their age restriction. If you're under 18, there can be legal ramifications for swearing/saying suggestive language in the same chat as you.

 

Thats stupid, especially since most highschool you see have more swearing/suggestive language than you'll ever hear over vent or anything.

I like age adult guilds for a few reasons

1. I can talk however I want I don’t have to worry about what I say.

2. I don’t have to worry about playfully flirting with someone and them being 16 and feeling like a pedo bear.

3. I like talking with older adult 25 plus a lot of them have kids and understand people have real lives.

4. Yes there are 17 year olds that act like they are 30 and 30 year olds that act like they are 17 but chances are they are going to act about their age.

5. I have been in guilds made for everyone and guilds made for adults in adult guild there tends to be less drama, less emo little brats.

6. I like when people use WORDS not l33t. I find the older the adults the less that chat talk.

Thats stupid, especially since most highschool you see have more swearing/suggestive language than you'll ever hear over vent or anything.

 

Ethics my friend, ethics. Different people have different morals. I believe maturity is partly the ability to respect that fact and the people whom have different views.

 

Not to judge him/her as I don't know them, but by their response it seems like they just don't like the idea of influencing young people in what they consider to be an immoral way. Possibly a maternal instinct, also possibly just respect for the individual- and that I gather because I believe similarly. I don't talk like I did when I was in High School around younger kids or seniors.

I like age adult guilds for a few reasons

1. I can talk however I want I don’t have to worry about what I say.

2. I don’t have to worry about playfully flirting with someone and them being 16 and feeling like a pedo bear.

3. I like talking with older adult 25 plus a lot of them have kids and understand people have real lives.

4. Yes there are 17 year olds that act like they are 30 and 30 year olds that act like they are 17 but chances are they are going to act about their age.

5. I have been in guilds made for everyone and guilds made for adults in adult guild there tends to be less drama, less emo little brats.

6. I like when people use WORDS not l33t. I find the older the adults the less that chat talk.

 

According to your 4th reason, you also believe there are exceptions to the age directly influencing maturity generalization. Why restrict the few people who are mature from joining because of the silliness of their peers?

 

As an extreme example, that's akin to convicting an entire group of people for a crime that one member committed; because as similar beings, they're potentially going to commit it as well.

First, a little about me. Contrary to some of my other posts (at this point, lying about my age is just what I'm used to... and has become a bad habit) I'm a 17 year old guy.. but I'm here to 1, have fun (which doesn't involve immaturity per say)

 

Dude! It's per se. It's latin.

 

FWIW, I'm 57 and not all that comfortable with age-limited guilds. There are plenty reasonable enough teenagers, plenty of whiny, immature 40-somethings.

Dude! It's per se. It's latin.

 

FWIW, I'm 57 and not all that comfortable with age-limited guilds. There are plenty reasonable enough teenagers, plenty of whiny, immature 40-somethings.

 

Ha, wow my bad.

 

Thanks for the feedback! I just wanted my opinion out there. It would be nice to not be set into a group because of a generalization.

 

There are exceptions to almost everything, so why not try the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset? If someone proves immature, remove them. But give the rest of us a chance?

According to your 4th reason, you also believe there are exceptions to the age directly influencing maturity generalization. Why restrict the few people who are mature from joining because of the silliness of their peers?

 

As an extreme example, that's akin to convicting an entire group of people for a crime that one member committed; because as similar beings, they're potentially going to commit it as well.

 

A person like you say you are is few and far between. And if I was a guild leader I don’t want all the work of weeding threw people. So it is easier me and my guild just to set guild lines. They make for less work less drama and more fun.

As a parent I wouldn't want my child in any mmo unsupervised until at least 16 and then only if they were involved with people I knew and trusted. Even at 18 you're only an adult in numbers and you have a LOT of growing up time to do.

 

I prefer age restricted guilds myself as I find that this is my escape time and I don't want to have to worry that I'm corrupting or upsetting someones child, much less have to deal with the inevitable temper tantrum that always comes with most players under 21. Nor do I want to find myself standing in as parent when 'yours' fail to notice your behavior or the fact that you're on line at omg-o'clock.

 

You have a valid point OP but you're going to find that most people really don't feel comfortable with the restrictions that playing with younger gamers puts on us. An example, when Second Life merged the Teen Grid with the 'Regular' grid. They put safeguards in place to keep younger users out of some areas and this failed horribly. You find, should you log in there that now you are not at all comfortable with an adult RP situation unless you see a valid photo id first. Now not all servers are RP, and not all people do things of a sexual nature in mmos, but even causal flirting becomes creepy when you could be the parent/grandparent of the person you find yourself talking to.

 

Also as a parent, where ARE the parents of most of these kids, I have a schedule that lets me play late in to the night and early morning and I can name at least 5 under 20 who are still in school and are still on at 3am or later on school nights.

 

I'm 39 and my generation was supposedly raised by television, gods helps us all if this generation is raised by computers and the internet. Granted it would explain a lot of the behavior I've seen in all the ones I've played. ( The Realm (bet no one remembers that one) to UO to DAOC to COH/COV to WOW to EQ II and back to WOW, so I've seen a lot of younger players and I've seen a lot of why people want age restricted guilds. Yes, it's exclusionary and may seem unfair but guess what darlin, life isn't fair.

I would much rather be in a guild of mature players, and preferably those players being over 18, as I can use my colorful language and sexual remarks without having to hold my tongue/fingers. What it really comes down to is respecting those in your guild, and the guild itself. Not everyone will be ok with everything you do, but it's easier to have a conversation with a more mature person about an issue than with (most) teenagers.

 

I feel that when you're in a guild, and you're wearing the guild tag, you're representing said guild. This is why I choose not to trash-talk or create conflicts with random people, as I want to uphold the image of my guild. When I see others saying, "wow, you suck," or, "you're an idiot, why didn't you (insert action here)," I get a bad taste in my mouth for that player, and it makes me not want to associate with whatever guild they're in, as it paints a bad picture for the rest of their members, and more often than not, it's a true portrait.

 

Age doesn't always have everything to do with being mature, but it helps to weed the immature out more. In the end, just don't be a douche!

Edited April 13, 2012 by Diopter

I'd never join a guild NOT having an age requirement of at least 18. The "kids can be mature" crowd is completely missing the point. Yes, kids can be NICE. They can't be MATURE. Maturity isn't about the absence of rude language or Chuck Norris jokes. It's about experience in life. I am 40 years old. I will tell you a secret - I don't want to chat with my guildies about high school, teachers and clubbing. Those topics stopped being remotely interesting for me one or two decades ago. I will talk about work life, running a household, being a parent and stuff like that - which a person under 18 CAN'T have any clue or interest about. That's why I prefer to be in a community with other people in my age bracket. And that's the point behind age requirements and not that people can keep their language in check.

I'd never join a guild NOT having an age requirement of at least 18. The "kids can be mature" crowd is completely missing the point. Yes, kids can be NICE. They can't be MATURE. Maturity isn't about the absence of rude language or Chuck Norris jokes. It's about experience in life. I am 40 years old. I will tell you a secret - I don't want to chat with my guildies about high school, teachers and clubbing. Those topics stopped being remotely interesting for me one or two decades ago. I will talk about work life, running a household, being a parent and stuff like that - which a person under 18 CAN'T have any clue or interest about. That's why I prefer to be in a community with other people in my age bracket. And that's the point behind age requirements and not that people can keep their language in check.

 

I disagree. For one, I graduated early; I'm a college student majoring in Business Administration right now. I live on my own (well, with a roomate but still outside of my parents' house). I work 35 hours a week, which is reasonably close to full time, and I pay my own bills. They're in my roomate's name, but I pay them on time and the full amount.

 

No I don't grasp what it is to be a parent, but neither do most 18 year olds- yet they're allowed into the guild while I'm not.

 

To be honest, I myself don't even talk about my personal life. The game is my... escape. No stress of work and classes and homework and car maintenance and bills (etc). I prefer to talk about anything and everything other than the reality I'm trying to take a break from.

Masta, you sound like a mature individual---articulate, well spoken and seem to have a good head on your shoulders Frankly, I would tell a white lie about your age and join the guild that you wanted. I tend to be quite an honest person but I NEVER answer questions about my age. I'm a woman in her middle years and when I'm asked for my age, I tend to say something such as...."A lady never reveals her age." In a few guilds, I've had people get pushy for personal details. I tend to stay away from those guilds and gravitate to the more casual adult guilds.

 

To answer your question though, I don't enjoy guilds with kids. I've been in many family guilds and I've been in adult ones. I have to say that I prefer the adult ones a bit more. I had a horrid experience in one with a 16 year old kid. He was an excellent player but would be argumentative and confrontational. Because of his nature and immaturity, he didn't know when to back down or to drop it. The guild leader's 47 year old girlfriend decided to mother him and it made it exceedingly uncomfortable for everyone in the guild. She would jump on anyone who said something and took the mother hen approach. Between her and this 16 year old, it was problematic. We had several other kids who were better behaved but when they logged on, the whole tone of guild chat would change.

 

My worst experience in another MMO happened in a raid with a kid. A father who unfortunately was the raid leader, decided to let his 13ish son join the raid. We were in vent and would hear this kid being sassy to his dad and dominating vent chat. The kid would also get called away by mom (parents were divorced so this game was bonding time for father and son) and would go afk in the middle of fights. Or the kid would barge ahead of the group and cause wipes. The RL would stop and talk to his son---"hey Johnny, look up there at the statues. Come over here and look at this cool view, etc." After a few hours of this, the adults started making snarky comments like, "Isn't it time for Johnny's bedtime soon?" It was disruptive and changed the whole tone of the raid. He kept bringing Johnny to raids and I quit going to them. The guild leaders were too polite to say no to anyone. He would also dominate guild chat and it just became a pain in the butt for everyone. I think that the adults were mostly to blame in this case. Someone should have chatted to the father and laid down some guidelines. The kid was just being a kid.

 

I'm sure that there are great folks out there under the age of 18 who are polite, helpful and don't cause problems. I had a 13 year old vassal in Asheron's Call 1 and enjoyed playing with him. We played together for many years. He was polite--his parents had very strict boundaries on his internet time. He never cussed, sassed and was a great kid. He actually begged me to be his patron and we had many years of good gaming times. I used to find him neat pieces of armor which he would proudly wear. I can however understand the age requirements in guilds.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Florial

Expanding on that... what invisible line determines who is a kid and who is not? A law from a country you live in? (I happen to also live in the US, just making a point).

 

And what about time periods? Why has the of-age requirement risen over the course of time? People were mature enough to be married and govern countries at age 15 at one point in time. (specifically I'm referring to "Henry the young king", who was crowned in June 1170 AD).

Long story short: People have given you plenty of legal ramifications for why adults and minors should be segregated - ie suggestive or foul language. As for your response of a disclaimer:

 

1) A minor cannot legally enter a binding contract - hence the disclaimer is null in regards to a minior.

 

2) You cannot contract away liability past negligence - and as adults curse and use suggestive language with intent and impunity - we would never meet that standard

 

I will go one further, I have been in guilds that were 21+.

 

The reason is that we turn every aspect of gaming into a drinking game and again would face legal ramifications if we were encouraging underage drinking.

 

I know it sucks because age limits set by the government were pretty much arbitrarily set to begin with - but thems the breaks.

 

What I will tell you is this - barring an unfortunate illness or accident - you will spend more of your life above 18 (or 21) than under it, and one day you will appreciate the safeguards in place. Believe it or not - life gets better!

 

G_

In your case that might be true even, but that's because you're ALMOST 18 and really close to satisfy the age requirement. I do agree that it must seem silly to you if you're being rejected for being just a few months too young, but as with all rules, you somewhere have to draw the line and stick to it. If you say that 17.8 years is almost as good as 18 (and you'd be right), the next person would say that 17.6 is almost as good as 17.8 and they'd be right too. Even if it seems to be unfair to you, but it's just as silly that you can have a drink at 20.9 years of age either and have to wait for the remaining weeks to tick off.