I agree 1000000000000000000% with this. Solution:

Group PVP - 2 or more grouped players

SOLO PVP - Randomly placed assortment of players NOT grouped

You've yet to actually say anything to me. Infact you've pretty much deflected, redirected and flat out avoided any questions or points I've made. But that's neither here nor there.

 

Incidently, the game doesn't need a third queue to be added... it simply needs the existing ones to be fixed. As long as groups continue to be allowed into the non-rated warzones premades will continue to avoid the rated warzones. Be it lazyness, a fear of actual competition, or just choosing the shortest path to the PVP brass ring this current layout accomplishes nothing. The game already has a seperate queue, incidently with better rewards, for group PVP content. Why not use it?

 

Oh right...

 

Counterpoint 1: We shouldn't be forced to do more then pugs to succeed.

Yet you are asking exactly that of pug players, cutting through the crap the arguement from you is that unless they find a PVP guild, which runs premades, they should expect to lose every single time or close enough to not to matter. Not an ideal situation for retaining subscribers or anything beyond a ankle deep wading pool of PVPers. (Feel free to explain to me these mysterious extra steps that I'm somehow missing.)

 

Counterpoint 2: The game is designed for group content, you should group to succeed.

The game also has a group rated warzones, yet "group content" PVPers don't seem to want to actually take part in group content.

 

Counterpoint 3: It will ruin PVP!

No.. other games that have done this have not been ruined, but infact have seen a marked improvement overall. Infact this is a system that the majority of games use, FPS's, MMO's and even sport's games have seperate areas for "ranked" and "unranked" play. What they also give you is the opportunity to find a place that suits your playstyle, don't want to face the clan you just got dropped in on in BF3.. find a different room that more to your liking.

 

Counterpoint 4: Its their own fault, they joined up late so they should suck it up and get better gear.

Interesting, but in the end a counterproductive mindset. You want more people to PVP... not less. Less just leads to longer queues, and a smaller population overall. There is logic in the game needing a learning curve, but when facing a full premade its not a curve.. its a brick wall.

 

Counterpoint 5: We don't have enough people for full rateds!

This one is a bit of a headscratcher for me. On one hand, in alot of cases its patently untrue. When you face premades of two groups from the same guild... it tends to make it look like yes, you actually do have enough players. But for arguements sakes, lets say you are short. Simple solution, what do raiding guilds do? Recruit more, gear them up, take the licks and improve. I see the current state of affairs with farming pugs as little different from a raiding guild complaining that BT SM should give them all the best gear while being doable by a full 8man group. The challenge in both situations seems practically identical.

 

Counterpoint 6: (More of an undercurrent then anything flat out said) I'm hardcore, only hardcore players should succeed. Casuals suck, **** them and anything they want, it dumbs down the game.

Here's a couple things about that... first, they pay the bills like you, and outnumber you by quite a bit. Driving them away hurts you, Bioware and the game. Secondly, the game doesn't need to be dumbed down to accomodate them, given a reasonable barrier of entry alot of them are quite willing to learn the ropes.

 

Counterpoint 7: We won't have fun!

Ok.. I'll give you this one, if fun is farming new players with no threat to yourself.. then yes, you would no longer have fun.

Sorry but I just have to...

You've yet to actually say anything to me. Infact you've pretty much deflected, redirected and flat out avoided any questions or points I've made. But that's neither here nor there.

 

Incidently, the game doesn't need a third queue to be added... it simply needs the existing ones to be fixed. As long as groups continue to be allowed into the non-rated warzones premades will continue to avoid the rated warzones. Be it lazyness, a fear of actual competition, or just choosing the shortest path to the PVP brass ring this current layout accomplishes nothing. The game already has a seperate queue, incidently with better rewards, for group PVP content. Why not use it?

 

You act like we are not allowed and are somehow breaking a rule by queing in regular. Rated does not mean premades are only allowed to play there and not in regular, In fact if you could point out were this might be mentioned? Because how I understand it it's for people who want to play Ranked. I happen to like to play ranked and my guild try's almost every night with other guilds to do that, but alot of the time it's not worth it due to people coming and going and we could have earned just as many comms playing regular with out all the team balancing fuss and can still que if we are short. So it's not a matter of avoiding rated it's a matter of time not wasted setting up and making less comms for the trouble.

 

Oh right...

 

Counterpoint 1: We shouldn't be forced to do more then pugs to succeed.

Yet you are asking exactly that of pug players, cutting through the crap the arguement from you is that unless they find a PVP guild, which runs premades, they should expect to lose every single time or close enough to not to matter. Not an ideal situation for retaining subscribers or anything beyond a ankle deep wading pool of PVPers. (Feel free to explain to me these mysterious extra steps that I'm somehow missing.)

 

We are not making anyone do more work, they chose not to put effort in and seem to expect the same result of those that do, and if they don't get what they want then it's the people who put effort in fault. And gimme a break you act like every pug game is against a roflstomp team and they never win...Over exaggerate much? If someone cancels their sub due to getting butt hurt a few times was likely going anyways. Besides PvP has not slowed since launch on my server, but have seen many PvE guilds disappear.

 

Counterpoint 2: The game is designed for group content, you should group to succeed.

The game also has a group rated warzones, yet "group content" PVPers don't seem to want to actually take part in group content.

Hate to break it to you but regular warzones are "group content" too. And no one has to play ranked if they don't wish too and certainly not to just appease some anti social player who can't be bothered with making friends to play "group content" with.

 

Counterpoint 3: It will ruin PVP!

No.. other games that have done this have not been ruined, but infact have seen a marked improvement overall. Infact this is a system that the majority of games use, FPS's, MMO's and even sport's games have seperate areas for "ranked" and "unranked" play. What they also give you is the opportunity to find a place that suits your playstyle, don't want to face the clan you just got dropped in on in BF3.. find a different room that more to your liking.

 

You can't argue FPS games that have 10's of thousands of servers to choose from in your argument. And which mmo does not let people group up for regular play?

 

Counterpoint 4: Its their own fault, they joined up late so they should suck it up and get better gear.

Interesting, but in the end a counterproductive mindset. You want more people to PVP... not less. Less just leads to longer queues, and a smaller population overall. There is logic in the game needing a learning curve, but when facing a full premade its not a curve.. its a brick wall.

 

Again not every match is pug VS premade, that's just BS. and again ques from the start on my server rock around the clock...a lot people seem to like it.

 

Counterpoint 5: We don't have enough people for full rateds!

This one is a bit of a headscratcher for me. On one hand, in alot of cases its patently untrue. When you face premades of two groups from the same guild... it tends to make it look like yes, you actually do have enough players. But for arguements sakes, lets say you are short. Simple solution, what do raiding guilds do? Recruit more, gear them up, take the licks and improve. I see the current state of affairs with farming pugs as little different from a raiding guild complaining that BT SM should give them all the best gear while being doable by a full 8man group. The challenge in both situations seems practically identical.

So you see 8man premades some times and think that they are not in Ranked que because you just know these thing right? and again they don't have to play rank just like you don't have to get better or get a group of your own. This continual attacking of people(friends) that play together as the ultimate evil and road block to your fun is short sighted and self serving. BW made the game we just play it.......

 

Counterpoint 6: (More of an undercurrent then anything flat out said) I'm hardcore, only hardcore players should succeed. Casuals suck, **** them and anything they want, it dumbs down the game.

Here's a couple things about that... first, they pay the bills like you, and outnumber you by quite a bit. Driving them away hurts you, Bioware and the game. Secondly, the game doesn't need to be dumbed down to accomodate them, given a reasonable barrier of entry alot of them are quite willing to learn the ropes.

 

Yea we all pay the bills, if you don't like it show with your wallet. SWTOR has issues but the PvP is fun and I don't see the gloom you forecast.

 

Counterpoint 7: We won't have fun!

Ok.. I'll give you this one, if fun is farming new players with no threat to yourself.. then yes, you would no longer have fun.

Ok, I see so the people who ARE currently having fun should somehow gimp themselves of thier fun so you can have a little fun with no effort? Sounds to much like welfare to me.

A THIRD queue for solo-players can only BENEFIT the POOL of PVP players.

 

Currently you have new 50'es who join a WZ, get smashed by a premade, never to return to PVP again due to a REALLY BAD experience that was NO FUN.

 

By a solo-only queue you get ppl who still enjoy PVP, and ALSO can join the premade queue as they decide to run their own premades later on.

 

CURRENT SYSTEM DISCOURAGES NEW PLAYERS FROM JOINING!

 

(I REALLY wish the devs would come with a statement on the issue)

Evidence of this besides your own personal experience? Or let's face it, you really have no proof that new players face 1 premade, get smashed, and quit.

Quick correction, to help anyone who looks it up: Orson Scott Card. And yes, it's very good. Read it.

<.< oh my, this is embarassing. Thanks for catching that.

The only reason premade runners constantly object us PUGs from getting a PVP queue for ourselves is that they are afraid of losing thier fun of easy kills. We PUGs who are tired of being cannonfodder for overpowered Premade runners just want our part of fun with getting balanced fights.

 

If you premade runners are fancying a tough fights, you should be glad if we PUGs were in our own queue, since you should have to fight other Premade team, but instead you are all whining in here, objecting that we should get our own queue. That fact speaks for itself.

 

I rest my case.

First, look up Logical Fallacies. It's called "No true Scotsman"

That being said, may I ask why the blame lies with players playing with their friends, coordinating, and using availabe tools, rather than the people whom are not doing so? If you wish to not be easy kills, the best answer to me would be.... STOP BEING EASY KILLS.

If a player/team is better than you/your team, you/your team need to get better. Now if you get better, and find your still losing to WH's when you're BM, your beef should be with the gear gap.

Part of me wonders why I bother replying.

Counterpoint 1: We shouldn't be forced to do more then pugs to succeed.

Yet you are asking exactly that of pug players, cutting through the crap the arguement from you is that unless they find a PVP guild, which runs premades, they should expect to lose every single time or close enough to not to matter. Not an ideal situation for retaining subscribers or anything beyond a ankle deep wading pool of PVPers. (Feel free to explain to me these mysterious extra steps that I'm somehow missing.)

I've asked pugs to find 3 more people and/or join a guild. I haven't even said anything about Voice chat, but that couldn't hurt. This is nothing MORE than I have done myself.

You ask me to find 7 more people, and/or join a guild. If there isn't another 8 people in queue for ranked, you have then either decied "Tough for you" or that I should find 8 (total 16) more people.

Now, as you obviously have at least a highschool education (You appear able to read and write well enough) please do some math for me.

I have asked you to find 3 people.

You have asked me to find 7 and/or 15 people.

Which is the greater number?

Counterpoint 2: The game is designed for group content, you should group to succeed.

The game also has a group rated warzones, yet "group content" PVPers don't seem to want to actually take part in group content.

Ranked takes 8 (and as we've discussed, sometimes 16). PvE takes 4, 8, or 16. When you can't do an 16 man op, you do an 8. When you can't do an 8 man op, you do a 4 man flashpoint.

I don't see the difference between a pvp group lacking the 8 (or 16) need choosing to do a 4 man piece of content.

Counterpoint 3: It will ruin PVP!

No.. other games that have done this have not been ruined, but infact have seen a marked improvement overall. Infact this is a system that the majority of games use, FPS's, MMO's and even sport's games have seperate areas for "ranked" and "unranked" play. What they also give you is the opportunity to find a place that suits your playstyle, don't want to face the clan you just got dropped in on in BF3.. find a different room that more to your liking.

I don't believe I said it will ruin PvP. There is the objection of longer queue times all around, and a moral objection to discouraging team play/building by creating an easier, PuG only bracket. Neither one of these is a dramatic "Itz will ruin da' PvP Q.Q!!!!!"

Counterpoint 4: Its their own fault, they joined up late so they should suck it up and get better gear.

Interesting, but in the end a counterproductive mindset. You want more people to PVP... not less. Less just leads to longer queues, and a smaller population overall. There is logic in the game needing a learning curve, but when facing a full premade its not a curve.. its a brick wall.

If you've listened to me at all, I think the gear gap is stupid, and I do not believe different tiered gear belongs in PvP. That is a different topic however.

I have encouraged the self-proclaimed "easy kills" to do as others have done, and stop being easy kills. As a realist, this means accepting that gear is a factor, and obtaining it as best and quickly as possible. On a side note, one can still Lose their way into gear.

Counterpoint 5: We don't have enough people for full rateds!

This one is a bit of a headscratcher for me. On one hand, in alot of cases its patently untrue. When you face premades of two groups from the same guild... it tends to make it look like yes, you actually do have enough players. But for arguements sakes, lets say you are short. Simple solution, what do raiding guilds do? Recruit more, gear them up, take the licks and improve. I see the current state of affairs with farming pugs as little different from a raiding guild complaining that BT SM should give them all the best gear while being doable by a full 8man group. The challenge in both situations seems practically identical.

Last time I say a Double premade on my server (4 weeks ago it seems) I asked/invited them to do ranked with us. Perhaps they didn't hear me over all the fighting, be no ranked matches popped after we wait 10 minutes or so. Since then we've tried for ranked atleast a dozen nights and never a pop. Maybe that means something else to you, but after waiting 20-30 minutes (enough for a double premade to get out of a normal and requeue ranked/normal) we're not going to just sit out from PvP as to not hurt someone's poor wittle feewings...

Again it comes down to an issue of you asking me to do more than I have asked you.

Your analogy is laughable,, since a non-ranked Wz is 15 minutes and 140 comms (Less than 50 ranked btw..). You can do 2 of them in the time you can do an HM BT. The day you can gain a full piece of WH in the same time you can run a BT, then you can make such an outrageous claim.

Counterpoint 6: (More of an undercurrent then anything flat out said) I'm hardcore, only hardcore players should succeed. Casuals suck, **** them and anything they want, it dumbs down the game.

Here's a couple things about that... first, they pay the bills like you, and outnumber you by quite a bit. Driving them away hurts you, Bioware and the game. Secondly, the game doesn't need to be dumbed down to accomodate them, given a reasonable barrier of entry alot of them are quite willing to learn the ropes.

I am not a Hardcore, I am simple not a scrub (or not as much as I use to be.) Before you become offended at being called a scrub, please go read "Playing to Win" by Sirlin. It's not as much a statement against your skill, as it is a description of your mentality.

Secondly, if by succeed you mean winning, then I think we all agree the better players should succeed? If by success you mean progress through the gear grind, then I've already stated I think the gear grind is stupid... it's simply a reality.

As for your final point lemme ask you this: If there are more tax-paying anti-gay people, then government shouldn't allow gay marriage? Majority rule, Minority rights.

Counterpoint 7: We won't have fun!

Ok.. I'll give you this one, if fun is farming new players with no threat to yourself.. then yes, you would no longer have fun.

I never said we won't have fun. Again, there is a concern for queue times and a moral disagreement about removing team play/building from team pvp.

Now that I've addressed these points, would you be so kind as to answer (or re-answer if I simply missed it) my question?

Why is it so hard to find 3 more players?

I came into this post thinking to answer it one way, continuing to debate you point for point, counter your counters and so on and so forth. But I realised the futility of it, through obstinance or don't know.. some wierd *** form of MMO greed? Neither one will be swayed from your opinions.. so instead I'll say this...

The barrier of entry you are requiring for even the lowest form of PVP is too high. Your rules are the ones that apply to arena based games, and tournement ladders, something that not everyone who plays SWTOR wishes to take part in.

Continue down this path and the game continues to die. I'm a huge fan of SWTOR.. but I can see the writing on the wall as well as anyone else, the game is in BAD shape. Players do not put up with bullsh-- anymore, those years are a decade behind us. They now just leave and Bioware consolidates the servers again and again until furthure development is scraped. Not doom and gloom, just the way EA does business. These guys are notorious for letting unprofitable games die.

The game, as it should be welcomes everyone, and allow those with higher standards to suceed in ranked PVP. The game as is welcomes nobody, chases off existing players and gives what? Cheap laughs to a few?

Either way, get over yourselves dudes. Your fun should not be at the expensive of eight other players.

Scub, lol.. h'ok. Smegheads.

@Samuel.

<.< so... it's easier to give up on your views (however wrong or right they may be) than to answer one simple question?

Why is it so hard to find 3 players?

((And if you actually read "Playing to Win" by Sirlin, you'd realize I wasn't insulting you with the mention of the word scrub. I was a scrub, I still am in many ways. It is a difficult mentality to break out of. I still feel like calling people "cheats" for popping a warzone medpak right before I would have killed them. But the simple fact remains that there is no code of honor in games, there is no "honorable" or "moral" way to conduct them. If the rules allow, then the player is allowed.)

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

There are not enough players to split up and still have decent queue times. You can tell this by the fact that players are forced to queue for all warzones at once, servers were merged, and all warzones were converted to allow for same faction versus same faction.

Also, the skill gap between various premades is massive. Forcing, simply all groups, no matter how casual, to only fight other groups creates the same problem. Making it random is the fairest way without an ELO system for unranked games that matchmaking could use.

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

I will agree that there should be pug only WZ's but, i think that atleast 2 people should que togather so you can pvp with a friend. i also think that there should be cross server pvp ques.

The problem is the devs do not know how to do either of these things. they need to hire some folks that know how to alow for both of the above.

@Samuel.

 

<.< so... it's easier to give up on your views (however wrong or right they may be) than to answer one simple question?

 

Why is it so hard to find 3 players?

Why is it so hard to find one or two more, or however many you are missing? You repeat your question which I've answer again and again...and then you ignore mine. Round and round and round we go... lol.

Why is it so hard to fill a premade group?

Oh wait.. its not. Love the new tactic by the way! Baiting.. classic!

Edit: And the only thing I gave up on is trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Why is it so hard to find one or two more, or however many you are missing? You repeat your question which I've answer again and again...and then you ignore mine. Round and round and round we go... lol.

 

Why is it so hard to fill a premade group?

 

Oh wait.. its not. Love the new tactic by the way! Baiting.. classic!

 

Edit: And the only thing I gave up on is trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Answer. my. question. please.

Edit: If I've missed the answer, re-answer it please.

No, the lack of class balance is ruining nwz'es. The premades are only adding to the problem by stacking certain classes.

Its been mentioned already, premades allow groups to stack the "perfect setup", a perfectly random system would actually fix some of the balance issues by mixing the teams up. Yes balance is an issue, a fairly large one. Stuns are another. A premade team stacking so called OP classes, and running a perfect stun situation turns a fairly bad situation into something catastrophic.

Answer. my. question. please.

I. have. Answer. Mine. Now.

Why is so hard in your mind for you to fill a RANKED, when you also think pugs should organize themselves?

I. have. Answer. Mine. Now.

Fine, I'll answer. Then please reanswer mine, as I -apparently- missed it.

Why is it so hard to find 4 more after the orginal 4?

It's a matter of numbers. It's easier to find 1 than 2, it's easier to find 3 than 4, 5 than 6, etc...

Operations groups with any chance of success plan a week or so in advance. They have a raid night, usually on a scheduled day. (Mine's is usually tuesday or saturday).

Between raid nights there are a few PuG ops with mixed success, but little more than 1 or 2 in a week.

In between raids, even top raiders drop into 4-man content, also know as flashpoints.

Now, other issues with ranked aside (no pop, no enemy, etc.) 8 people take the same level of planning. There's usually a ranked night for the guild (Mine's thursday). Between that there's some general attempts at PuG ranked, (once again, with mixed success, usually no more than 1-2 a week)

In between ranked nights, it is perfectly reasonable for teams to run 4-man content. Aka. Non-ranked.

Now, let's take that a step further, Assume there is no second ranked team (which an 8 man ops never has to worry about.) Now in order to have ranked content, the 8 man must form a 16 man. 16 > 8 > 4. 16 and 8 are harder to find then 4.

So, why, in order to play end game pvp (Which is both ranked and non-ranked) do you find it fair to ask players who have put in the time and effort to excell to carry the burden of going from 4 to 8 or 16, when you are unwilling to go from 1 to 4?

Pre-mades are ruining non-ranked war zones.

I just logged into SWTOR and queued solo. First war zone: huttball.

We were stomped hard by a pre-made. Once they hit six points (to our zero), I load back to the fleet and immediately log out of the game. Screw the daily. I'm not in the mood to lose four times just to get it over with.

Where is any of that fun? If a game isn't fun there is absolutely no point in playing it.

I beta tested and have been subbed since launch. If things are to the point that they're driving me right out of the game (and others like me), what's it going to do to the casual Free to players we'll be getting soon?

Ive read all the posts and there is some very good input about pvp in this game generally. If the devs would read this thread they may L2D.

When you play a coordinated team the stuns are totally unacceptable. Its hard for me to call this pvp, I want interaction with other players, two way interaction. If this is EA's idea of end game pvp, its not good. It feels like crap being helpless in a fight, there needs to be an element of randomness. Why do stuns work 100% of the time? Thats not pvp. In any real fight, does every blow you throw hit the guy? Of course not. Also, resolve needs to last 3 times longer than it currently does. I understand the other sides argument and they have valid points. All I am saying is, its too much and it is ruining pvp for me and most other players. For those who are top players and say everything is fine, adding a random element like misses would make the game much more challenging and require you to think more and assess risk. EA do something about the excessive unplayable stuns.

On topic: Don't blame premades, blame EA for not being competent enough to develop any type of match making system.

Since my wife and I were getting beat up pretty hard in PvP vs the premade groups I thought I would start recording the data and see where we stood. We play on the Jedi Covannat server as imps. and here is the data I recorded.

400 fights 17 wins = 1 out of every 23.5 battles was a win (which seems to be about the avg I see from people posting there win/lose ratio from pugs.)

Out of those 383 loses 337 were one sided (by one sided I mean huttball being 0 - 5, or the capture points having one side not even half way down before the end of the game.) Which means that approximately 87% of the losing games between my wife and I were so lop sided that there was pretty much no chance of winning.

It's like this in every game though that I have every played. The casual gamer wants to enjoy his game at his pace and complains about being facerolled all the time. While the hardcore guy wants to say everything is fine because he is steamrolling over the casual guy. I Agree 100% with all the posts that say there should be an option to Either go against groups or go against a bunch of random people, cause lets face it a premade group has the classes they need and they work well together while the pug gets whatever the computer randomizes which often leads to no healers, or no "uber" tank or ETC. I mean be honest if your fighting a premade group with 2 healers and your "random" group has no healers but the 3 mercs (if you can call them that) it's obvious who will win.

I don't think there should be a penalty for anyone for playing as a group just like I don't think there should be anything to force people to make groups like has been suggestedmany times. I do believe though they need to allow people to choose if they want to be in a complete random for both teams or against a premade team. I know this option would piss all the premade groups off because that would mean no more farming the casual guys for hours for comms but would force them to either play people on the same terms or play solo and shoot for the best like everyone else.

Since my wife and I were getting beat up pretty hard in PvP vs the premade groups I thought I would start recording the data and see where we stood. We play on the Jedi Covannat server as imps. and here is the data I recorded.

Since you and your wife are plaing, I think it's safe to assume you are plaing pvp together so I'll try to tell you this shocking information : you and youre wife ... you're one of those dreaded premades.

I don't think there should be a penalty for anyone for playing as a group just like I don't think there should be anything to force people to make groups like has been suggestedmany times. I do believe though they need to allow people to choose if they want to be in a complete random for both teams or against a premade team. I know this option would piss all the premade groups off because that would mean no more farming the casual guys for hours for comms but would force them to either play people on the same terms or play solo and shoot for the best like everyone else.

If they make a solo only que you wouldn't be able to play with your wife because 2 people are a premade as much as 4 people and yes 2 people can make or breake a game - I have seen this happen many times, I have done this many times.

Just had a brain fart and felt like this is the right place to share it .

JUST REMOVE THE FRIKKIN QUEUE SOLO BUTTON.

Problem solved. How does that smell ?

P.S. To understand where I'm coming from you'll have to read what I have posted previously on this thread.

favorite complaint of the month 'me and my 3 friends got stomped by a filthy premade, whaaa whaaa'

Since you and your wife are plaing, I think it's safe to assume you are plaing pvp together so I'll try to tell you this shocking information : you and youre wife ... you're one of those dreaded premades.

.

Not quite sure where I put that we played them together as I have a job that tends to occupy the day and her a job that tends to occupy the night but when you find where I said that we played pvp as a group please show me because for the life of me... I cannot find it /shrug.

Pre-mades are ruining non-ranked war zones.

 

I just logged into SWTOR and queued solo. First war zone: huttball.

 

We were stomped hard by a pre-made. Once they hit six points (to our zero), I load back to the fleet and immediately log out of the game. Screw the daily. I'm not in the mood to lose four times just to get it over with.

 

Where is any of that fun? If a game isn't fun there is absolutely no point in playing it.

 

I beta tested and have been subbed since launch. If things are to the point that they're driving me right out of the game (and others like me), what's it going to do to the casual Free to players we'll be getting soon?

Well I will say this about premades if they have a good group comm this is the only warzone where 4 players can win you the game.

Let me say it again:

• Add option to join with 4 people to ranked. No solo queue. People in PVE gear/undergeared have no place in RWZ.
  
• Add daily+weekly(daily win 2 ranked games, weekly win 9 ranked games) to ranked,. Same amount of reward as normal daily, weekly.
  
• Add EWH gear to vendor for absurd number of ranked comms or create new tier.
  
• Remove completely grouping from NWZ.
  
• Rework Illum. For starters: bring back the daily possibly weekly. Just for the time being until you redesign it completely.
  

There. Most of the problems solved. Ranked should pop faster and premades will not ruin time for puggers trying to get gear to start ranked. Que times could go up for NWZ, but quality of games should go up too.

And you could go to Illum for some friendly grouping and pvp.

Let me say it again:

 

• Add option to join with 4 people to ranked. No solo queue. People in PVE gear/undergeared have no place in RWZ.
  
• Add daily+weekly(daily win 2 ranked games, weekly win 9 ranked games) to ranked,. Same amount of reward as normal daily, weekly.
  
• Add EWH gear to vendor for absurd number of ranked comms or create new tier.
  
• Remove completely grouping from NWZ.
  
• Rework Illum. For starters: bring back the daily possibly weekly. Just for the time being until you redesign it completely.
  

 

There. Most of the problems solved. Ranked should pop faster and premades will not ruin time for puggers trying to get gear to start ranked. Que times could go up for NWZ, but quality of games should go up too.

And you could go to Illum for some friendly grouping and pvp.

Agree completely.. maybe not on removing grouping completely from normal.. but the basic idea that once you are 4 man premading in max gear, doing ranked should be easier and there should be more incentives for it... right now if i q for regular w/ say 2 max geared healers and 2 hybrid tanks.. forget winning and losing, it'll be maybe 20 games before we even go down an objective, and probably will go w/ out deaths in over half the games.. and if we get match'd w/ another good premade against a pug team they'll be lucky if everyone can even get a medal.. am not saying you shouldn't ever be able to do this.. am just saying that complete roflstomps should not be the vast majority of games anyone plays, and for alot of high and low end players they are..