Going a year without any answers can somehow disillusion people and they feel playing something else is better than paying to ask questions to a brick wall.

I'm hanging in there until my sub runs out, in January, so it depends on the "this year" claim - as fun as it is, can't keep praying to St. Jude forever.

I do not think it is a sign they do not care enough.

For me the general overtone seems more of exhaustion, overwhelmed by disappointment and (to some extent) hoping against all hope.

For me the adamant silence of EA/BW has long lost the status of "neutrality". At a certain point saying nothing is supporting the opposite opinon.

I'm normally not even a MMO-player. My brother, his partner and my wife convinced me to play as the men were into Star Wars an d my wife loved to RP.

Now I am the only one left of us. My brother and his partner left "because we can get discrimination for free in the RL... we don't have to pay for it with additional benefit of souring our love for SW".

My wife stopped for the general sexism of the game: "I'm not a straight male... I don't have struggled for equal rights almost all my life, just to be reminded by a game that I am a second class being / not part of an important customer group".

I have not given up either.

I can't really claim exhaustion, since I never was the most active person in this thread. I have been lurking for quite a while, contacted staff here and there, twittered writers when I came across a tweet that didn't really seem to shed any light on the topic. If anything, it's fatigue, and not wanting to be part of the group again whose wishes are constantly denied.

At this point, I just don't know what to do. I've mentioned the people that "bullied" Bioware into giving them more ME3 ending content. Of course we could also set up a FB group and involve any gaming press outlet there and threaten to never buy any Bioware product again. But as with last time, I do not support this kind of action. I found it justified in part, but childish and bratty in the way it ended up playing out. I guess I'm just not that kind of a person.

But I'm not good at waiting also. I've cancelled my sub for the time being, having done so since if it's F2P, I can have a look into it from time to time and wait for the content I really care about to appear. I wish they'd just let me pay my money for that.

The "no-info" policy is a little annoying. Maybe it has to do with them not wanting to raise expectations after what happened with ME3. I really do not feel that "Give us a new ending" movement has done us much good in the long run. People got what they wanted, but it has changed the tone of conversation and chemistry between Bioware and us "fans" to some extent.

Maybe I'm wrong about it, and do not get me wrong, I do like the additional ending content we received. But maybe, I thought about it last night, it also had an effect thus possibly delaying other things BW were up to, after all they nearly invested half a year into creating it.

I'm still waiting. I haven't given up. Just a little unsure how to proceed from here, you know.

At this point, I just don't know what to do. I've mentioned the people that "bullied" Bioware into giving them more ME3 ending content. Of course we could also set up a FB group and involve any gaming press outlet there and threaten to never buy any Bioware product again. But as with last time, I do not support this kind of action. I found it justified in part, but childish and bratty in the way it ended up playing out. I guess I'm just not that kind of a person.

It is by no means childish to, as a customer, demand consistent quality and truthful advertising. And it's by no means bullying either. That attitude stems from how we've gotten too damned complacent when it comes to our rights as consumers.

Gamers (as a group) have been terrible at standing up for their principles, even when they do voice their dissatisfaction, and let publishers abuse their brand loyalty again and again and again. Frankly I find lashing out at gamers who finally stood up for themselves with terms suggesting that doing so isn't something appropriate for adults to be quite distasteful.

Personally? I'd be all for organizing some sort of campaign to pressure EA into finally saying something about the issue at hand. Create a Facebook page and a Twitter account! Encourage Forbes, and other journalistic entities that aren't part of the incestuous relationship that is the video game industry and the specialized video game press, to bring up the subject and attempt to get an answer from EA!

What we've been doing so far clearly isn't working, so either we just sit around and wait for EA to decide when/if they want to tell us something, or we escalate the issue to levels that they'll take seriously.

The "no-info" policy is a little annoying. Maybe it has to do with them not wanting to raise expectations after what happened with ME3. I really do not feel that "Give us a new ending" movement has done us much good in the long run. People got what they wanted, but it has changed the tone of conversation and chemistry between Bioware and us "fans" to some extent.

"People got what they wanted" isn't exactly accurate. People got a small portion of what they wanted, which is a relatively proper denouement, but most of the things that were criticized in the ending still remain to this day, because BioWare would never admit that the entire premise behind the game's main plot was highly flawed.

That said, you should have a look at the Dragon Age forums. Tons of interaction between the team and the fans there. I think the tone of conversation going on the SWTOR side if things is completely unrelated to what happened with ME3, and has more to do with this game's inability to live up to the publisher's expectations. EA thought they had the new World of Warcraft on their hands, but they didn't... and things changed.

Going a year without any answers can somehow disillusion people and they feel playing something else is better than paying to ask questions to a brick wall.

Disillusioned due to being overly emotional and getting easily stressed by people telling me my opinions are worthless and I'm a horrible human being. Think I've hit some of the side effects of the implant as well.

For me the adamant silence of EA/BW has long lost the status of "neutrality". At a certain point saying nothing is supporting the opposite opinon.

Absolutely. Why else would all the anti's be so bloody happy that Bioware hasn't said anything on this site? Nowhere does it say that time invalidates all things automatically and yet the anti-crowd holds to that idea. They take Bioware's silence as tacit consent for their hatred and that any moderation on comments is paying lip service to a legal requirement, rather than a belief in equality and a safe environment.

And yes, this game is sexist, does have moments of misogyny and whorephobia, probably does have moments of racism (can't say, I'm white) and is definitely homophobic due to erasure and a lack of options. A lot of people take homophobia and other forms of discrimination to be name calling and directed violence, when actually it's much more than that.

Even though I think that SGRs have been postponed indefinitely, there's something else that's changed obviously; the elephant being F2P.

BW has stated that the Cathar is coming soon and will be a Cartel Market unlock only. HK51, our first additional companion, is also a Cartel Market unlock. I've been wondering if this signifies a move to additional big content updates going to the Cartel Market. HK51 is now a legacy unlock if you have it on one of your toons. The good thing about that is that if you care about HK51 you can have it with all your toons regardless of level. That's something I can appreciate.

Could this mean that future companions will be Cartel Market companions? Again the positive thing about that is that it would allow one to have a companion across one's legacy at whichever level. It'd also allow a companion to be had and romanced with any toon at any level.

Any thoughts on this?

Hi all ;-)

I support same gender relationships for sure!

But I see that promised (for ''later'' this year) s/s romances are not releashed, so I am very sad

I still have some hope for December/January release, but I'm not holding my breath...

Cheers.

Gamers (as a group) have been terrible at standing up for their principles, even when they do voice their dissatisfaction, and let publishers abuse their brand loyalty again and again and again. Frankly I find lashing out at gamers who finally stood up for themselves with terms suggesting that doing so isn't something appropriate for adults to be quite distasteful.

You know, that is exactly what I was talking about. We may disagree on the subject, but we do so without calling each other names or scream and yell at another.

Just to give you a few examples of what I was talking about when I said "I found it justified in part, but childish and bratty in the way it ended up playing out." (and I stand by what I said):

(Dear Mods, I know this is a little off topic but lemmme just mention this and I'll shut up about ME, promised )

On public boards when I mentioned I was okay with the endings and didn't really miss anything, there were people telling me I could never ever be a "true" Mass Effect fan then. They did not allow any disconsent. That I found quite presumptuous.

The guy who set up the FB group went into hiding for three to four weeks after he opened it and it became viral, later claiming he had named "mods" in his absence who deserted him. My guess is he just didn't know what to do with all his new found "fame".

Employees of BW, writers, producers, were called all kinds of names on all kinds of boards, liars and a**holes being among the more harmless ones. There were quite a few people who claimed the whole ME franchise was crap now and they would throw away their games, just because they didn't like the last ten minutes of maybe 100 hours of game time. That indeed I found rather bratty and childish. I read just last night (I didn't even know), that Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk left Bioware to retire. I have no idea whether there's any connection here, but one saying he lost passion for creating video games, after all this ruckus with the new DLC was over .... I find this timing rather odd. But maybe that's just me.

Everyone should do what they want to get the content they want. That's more than fine with me. But don't claim I'm not a real fan if I disagree with you on some things and behave yourself in a way that makes it possible for other people to interact with you, be it other fellow gamers or writers, producers, and so on. I guess that's all I'm saying. And by "you" of course I did not mean you you... in case that was unclear.

I must say I'm surprised at the tone being expressed here at times. Sure, I can understand your bitter disappointment that there's no word on SGRA's, and that they are probably being delayed due to F2P.

However, if you want to see SGRA's in games, you have no greater friend than BioWare. Remember the publicity over Mass Effect and all the bad headlines. They took a stand, and a risk for things you both want. They want these things in their games.

Now, your friend is in trouble. Their publisher is probably breathing down their necks, worried about their $200 million-plus investment. They have to re-prioritise. This is a fully-voiced story-focused MMO. Writing NEW story content is more expensive than in a SP game. Writing NEW story content for eight different arcs, and making sure it all works out-of-the-box and doesn't conflict with something else that they're working on is rather more expensive.

And what do they get in return for giving you what they want in the past and trying to meet expectations? Demands. Threats. Insults. Fine, you're upset. But you're treating them worse than "Other Developers" who don't even try to put what you want in games. It is important in life to always remember who your friends are.

Could this mean that future companions will be Cartel Market companions? Again the positive thing about that is that it would allow one to have a companion across one's legacy at whichever level. It'd also allow a companion to be had and romanced with any toon at any level.

Any thoughts on this?

I don't really like this option just for the reason that it could potentially mean "pay for gay", which would more or less become a "gay toggle option" that BW never wanted to have.

If there was no other option to have SGRA than through companions in the cartel market.... I don't know. I might reconsider but I don't think it would make me feel good romancing them. So I can't really say I like the idea too much.

You know, that is exactly what I was talking about. We may disagree on the subject, but we do so without calling each other names or scream and yell at another.

 

Just to give you a few examples of what I was talking about when I said "I found it justified in part, but childish and bratty in the way it ended up playing out." (and I stand by what I said):

 

(Dear Mods, I know this is a little off topic but lemmme just mention this and I'll shut up about ME, promised )

 

On public boards when I mentioned I was okay with the endings and didn't really miss anything, there were people telling me I could never ever be a "true" Mass Effect fan then. They did not allow any disconsent. That I found quite presumptuous.

 

The guy who set up the FB group went into hiding for three to four weeks after he opened it and it became viral, later claiming he had named "mods" in his absence who deserted him. My guess is he just didn't know what to do with all his new found "fame".

 

Employees of BW, writers, producers, were called all kinds of names on all kinds of boards, liars and a**holes being among the more harmless ones. There were quite a few people who claimed the whole ME franchise was crap now and they would throw away their games, just because they didn't like the last ten minutes of maybe 100 hours of game time. That indeed I found rather bratty and childish. I read just last night (I didn't even know), that Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk left Bioware to retire. I have no idea whether there's any connection here, but one saying he lost passion for creating video games, after all this ruckus with the new DLC was over .... I find this timing rather odd. But maybe that's just me.

 

Everyone should do what they want to get the content they want. That's more than fine with me. But don't claim I'm not a real fan if I disagree with you on some things and behave yourself in a way that makes it possible for other people to interact with you, be it other fellow gamers or writers, producers, and so on. I guess that's all I'm saying. And by "you" of course I did not mean you you... in case that was unclear.

There's plenty of childish action on the interwebs. But when it comes to civil rights and inclusiveness history is the clear lesson that without a riot nothing will change. I've been looking for the All Out campaign, what ever happened to it? So many people have given their signature for that public action and it seems to have been completely ignored. BW has said "this year", and if that doesn't happen they'll have to act responsibly like any adult or institution and explain themselves. If not then clearly it is time for more actions. This is not about some missing feature, or some ending we're unhappy with. This is about being excluded from yet another game, and their promise to fix it. And I think we're in our right to be very angry about it. Anno 2012 this should have been a thing of the past, and talking and mailing seems to get nobody anywhere.

I don't really like this option just for the reason that it could potentially mean "pay for gay", which would more or less become a "gay toggle option" that BW never wanted to have.

 

If there was no other option to have SGRA than through companions in the cartel market.... I don't know. I might reconsider but I don't think it would make me feel good romancing them. So I can't really say I like the idea too much.

I agree, but BW has said with the Cathar as well that they don't consider it to be payment, as subs can save their monthly coins to unlock it. And essentially the F2P is not the full game, but more an extended trial.

But I am seeing changes in content release, moving from general to the Cartel Market, we'll have to see how this will play out. But I think it's quite probable this is what the future of SWTOR will be.

On that model; some Cartel Market items are free for subs, this could be the case for SGR companions. In any case, if new companions are released in this manner, it would answer some of our questions on how they'll be implemented. Essentially any SGR companion would then be available to all your toons regardless of their level or part in their class story. Could that be a suitable solution?

Fabiyun! I remember you! my word I'm not the only who survived those days then!

No indeed, but one of the few, and tbh I've been mostly lurking and too upset to post. This has really gone on way too long, and the amount of trolls and haters who keep on coming in is not decreasing. And then there is the general discussion in this thread that just goes round in circles, understandably without any new information, but I've not felt inclined to participate and feed the trolls.

On that model; some Cartel Market items are free for subs, this could be the case for SGR companions. In any case, if new companions are released in this manner, it would answer some of our questions on how they'll be implemented. Essentially any SGR companion would then be available to all your toons regardless of their level or part in their class story. Could that be a suitable solution?

Quick post before I need to go bake a cake (honest, not kidding )..... ah, I don't know.

I kind of like the way the companions are toon-specific so to speak, they share a personal story with your toon, they appear for a reason and not out of nowhere. If that feature, like you described, would be implemented, wouldn't that mean they'd have to write each companion to suit every possible toon? And that might mean too much work indeed.

I kind of like the fact that each char has a different set of companions, some you may like more than others, sure, but it makes exploring other classes so much more fun imo.

Quick post before I need to go bake a cake (honest, not kidding )..... ah, I don't know.

 

I kind of like the way the companions are toon-specific so to speak, they share a personal story with your toon, they appear for a reason and not out of nowhere. If that feature, like you described, would be implemented, wouldn't that mean they'd have to write each companion to suit every possible toon? And that might mean too much work indeed.

 

I kind of like the fact that each char has a different set of companions, some you may like more than others, sure, but it makes exploring other classes so much more fun imo.

The offside of that is.... HK51 is one of the best companions of the lot, he is very funny, very well written and has something to say about ALL your class quests, if that's how SGRA companions are introduce, call me a happy bunny, especially given that I don't have to sit around with Qyzen or the cat guy from the Trooper arc for the entire first chapter(I think).

Quick post before I need to go bake a cake (honest, not kidding )..... ah, I don't know.

 

I kind of like the way the companions are toon-specific so to speak, they share a personal story with your toon, they appear for a reason and not out of nowhere. If that feature, like you described, would be implemented, wouldn't that mean they'd have to write each companion to suit every possible toon? And that might mean too much work indeed.

 

I kind of like the fact that each char has a different set of companions, some you may like more than others, sure, but it makes exploring other classes so much more fun imo.

I agree, but it seems more and more that BW are moving away from that and instead want to make the game Avenger style (whatever that may mean, sounds like gangnam style). And then there is the uneven distribution of romance options between male and female toons and possible OGR and SGR toons. If it would mean I only have a single choice that I might not like by doing it the old style, then I'd rather pick one or two that I do like from the Cartel Market. Regardless it seems like we can only wait and see, but I think there's a real possibility that new companions will only come through the Cartel Market.

And then there's this nagging thing in my head, cynicism really. That BW will say: "Look we've given you gay lord thrones that have you sit like a queen, pink lightsabers, glitter cannons and disco balls, and transparent power top shirtless muscle twink attire! What more do you want?!"

I want this in the game =)

And I also want an orphanage

I must say I'm surprised at the tone being expressed here at times. Sure, I can understand your bitter disappointment that there's no word on SGRA's, and that they are probably being delayed due to F2P.

 

However, if you want to see SGRA's in games, you have no greater friend than BioWare. Remember the publicity over Mass Effect and all the bad headlines. They took a stand, and a risk for things you both want. They want these things in their games.

 

Now, your friend is in trouble. Their publisher is probably breathing down their necks, worried about their $200 million-plus investment. They have to re-prioritise. This is a fully-voiced story-focused MMO. Writing NEW story content is more expensive than in a SP game. Writing NEW story content for eight different arcs, and making sure it all works out-of-the-box and doesn't conflict with something else that they're working on is rather more expensive.

 

And what do they get in return for giving you what they want in the past and trying to meet expectations? Demands. Threats. Insults. Fine, you're upset. But you're treating them worse than "Other Developers" who don't even try to put what you want in games. It is important in life to always remember who your friends are.

The tone, eh? We don't mind if SGRA has been postponed... at least I don't anyway, not sure about others. What I do mind is the information blackout regarding it. Can't they at least tell us... "Hey, guys, sorry, but SGRA is not coming/is coming much later than anticipated." That's really all that most people posting on this topic want (At least from my observations). Of course, if they tell us it's not coming, we get to say... eh, laters, TOR, it was fun while it lasted. That, in and of itself is likely to reduce the already reduced player base. While I can understand the fear relating to that, they're not going to win any extra points two patches down the road if the content doesn't arrive. People will get annoyed, angry, etc, etc.

As I mentioned earlier in this topic, I haven't played TOR in months, but I have kept my subscription alive to support the devs in the hopes that I'll get to see this game grow and hopefully see the content that they promised us. That's me being loyal... and what do I get in return? Absolutely nothing, not even a peep. At this point, I guess I should start to get angry. I'm giving it enough time for another patch after the one currently on the PTR... and if I get nothing information-wise, I'll just be on my way and then never buy a Bioware product anymore. It's simply gotten to where we should all just go and say... too little, too late.

I want this in the game =)

Yay

And I also want an orphanage

So you can burn it down in self defense?

Time is short today, so just a few points I'd like to touch on.

Personally? I'd be all for organizing some sort of campaign to pressure EA into finally saying something about the issue at hand.... What we've been doing so far clearly isn't working, so either we just sit around and wait for EA to decide when/if they want to tell us something, or we escalate the issue to levels that they'll take seriously.

I was about there, oh, two months ago. I got just enough of a reply from Joveth (see the BW post in this thread and more to the point, my post of his email above it) to make me feel that maybe things were looking up, info-wise. And while I have not been eager to share this before, I'll now reveal that what got that response from Joveth was filing a CS ticket reporting the community team for discriminatory behavior.

That was kind of an A-bomb for an ant-hill, but also kind of not because to all appearances, all that differentiates how this content and discussion of it from any other content is sexual orientation. And quarantining this discussion on that grounds alone is discriminatory, and there are rules of conduct against that, and I think the Community Team is also obliged to observe those.

So that got us what it got us, which isn't much. But we have repeatedly, tediously, disheartenlngly told that they are aware of the interest in this content and they are working to bring us new information as soon as they can. Pressing harder for this information is counter-productive to me at this point because if they know how we feel and are not responding now, then that tells me all I need to know about my value to the company as a customer, and shows their "inclusive" ethic for the thin, feeble charade that it is, or else this would be addressed already. Maybe not in game, because things take time, but talked about frankly.

So too late for me, unless it comes out with a big, fat "We're sorry!" in front. Yes, it's just a game, but I see no reason to accept from an entertainment venue what I would not stand for from an employer, a landlord or a place of worship.

Could this mean that future companions will be Cartel Market companions? Again the positive thing about that is that it would allow one to have a companion across one's legacy at whichever level. It'd also allow a companion to be had and romanced with any toon at any level.

 

Any thoughts on this?

We have been led to expect same-sex romance with companions we already know. And sc****** up CC to unlock it, when those could be invested elsewhere, IS Pay-to-Gay, because no one had to do anything like that for OGR. It was just there, part of the content with the companions one met along the way. I want the same thing for SGR. Anything less and I will turn around and walk away rather than accept more of a second-class experience than we have already been subjected to.