I am a no skill chump who wants to tell you that there were times when you could win a warzone:rolleyes: without healers...in your team and with enemy having at least 1. A typical warzone today is mostly about a team with 2 or 3 healers VS a team with 1 or zero heals getting hammered down. No fun at all. Sometimes I think that the only reason we are winning is because we had more healers and not skill. it's f*ng bad !

 

In 5.0 winning with 1 heal team vs 2 or 3 heal team is mostly out of the question. especially when you have skank tank abominations running around with VIABLE guards to healers and doing 3 mil damage..

 

Yes, us no skill chumps just hate how everything is so broken now.

 

I'd to have a word with the genius who thought that giving guard to dps classes jugg, pt sin was a good idea.... and STILL, no word of it being FIXED. EVER !

 

Lol well said and you really get it.

 

The over zelious player always hates the absoulute truth...

 

Sadley the moral and value of this game was taken away before it even got started. People complained so badly back then this game tanked to a FTP game lol. Had tons of heavy servers, now has only one standard server Harbinger, rest is light.

 

What bothers me the most is the simple things never fixed, and I got a laundry list lol..

 

Anyways.. 😂😂😂

If you truly believe that then you are the problem on why Bioware listens to the masses on what is supposed to be balanced, and what needs adressed.

 

What it should be is Tank can only guard, and has to be in tank gear.

 

Tanks should not be able to wear dps gear and dps should not have tank utilities. Taunts, guard, ect. Dps is dps, tank is tank and healers are healers.

 

That is suppose to be the trinity here, unless Bioware wants this game to be like Rift or Guildwars or Final Fantasy...

 

Skank tank are easy to kill they are not the problem.

How hard is it to split dps to the tank and healer tanks will die every time as the healer can not heal double the damage the tank is taking and the damage the healer has to heal them self for. Guard is fine bad pugs are the problem when they are sitting there attack the other tank that has no healer like a loony toons character which way did he go... When you solo que it is like pulling teeth getting a pug to figure this out. If it has a guard pugs wont attack that player more then 2 buttons worth of rotation and then tab target to some thing else.

Skank tank are easy to kill they are not the problem.

 

But they are A problem. And its A inbalance. And there is CRAP tons of people playing them.

 

You say there is focus problems, well there always has been focus problems with 90% of this pvp community what do you even mean lol. .. 😅☺😅

 

But you cant sit here like "Its up to the players to adept" bs when as PLAIN as day a inbalance of skank tanks are all over the place. Not to mention heals, I dont see dps anymore its hybrid or go home..

 

Tbh, this shouldnt even be a discussion, it SHOULDN'T be aloud in this game..

 

Bottom line you may say its players and skank tank isnt the problem. Well Bioware allowing it is really the problem.

 

Rather they exist in this game or not, lack of focus will be always there. With all due respect I just disagree with the way you find it not being a problem.

 

I find most people who accept it play it or dont care if a guild mate plays it. And I am not saying that is case for you, all I am saying is there is rose tinted glasses about this topic..

Edited July 24, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

But they are A problem. And its A inbalance. And there is CRAP tons of people playing them.

 

You say there is focus problems, well there always has been focus problems with 90% of this pvp community what do you even mean lol. .. 😅☺😅

 

But you cant sit here like "Its up to the players to adept" bs when as PLAIN as day a inbalance of skank tanks are all over the place. Not to mention heals, I dont see dps anymore its hybrid or go home..

 

Tbh, this shouldnt even be a discussion, it SHOULDN'T be aloud in this game..

 

Bottom line you may say its players and skank tank isnt the problem. Well Bioware allowing it is really the problem.

 

Rather they exist in this game or not, lack of focus will be always there. With all due respect I just disagree with the way you find it not being a problem.

 

I find most people who accept it play it or dont care if a guild mate plays it. And I am not saying that is case for you, all I am saying is there is rose tinted glasses about this topic..

 

All of the juggs run immortal for the simple reason that dps juggs can't compete against the ranged meta of mercs/snipers. It would be stupid to punish the one viable spec for pvp.

 

It takes twice as long to gear a skank tank then any other class. Think about that in the context of CXP.

 

Skank tanks who burned their dcds are just as easy to kill as a dps. That means you force him to burn a dcd, attack the healer, and when the dcds run out you attack the tank again. Suddenly his taunts and guard are completely useless. It's just a much less severe version of attacking a merc, except that he's not going to be as effective as a real dps while you're ignoring him.

 

"But he does so much damage! Bo ho!" That's because your team is standing in cleaves. If a skank tank gets more that 2 targets in his cleave it's their fault for clustering. If you do just a little research, you'll know when a immortal jug is about to use crushing blow against a group. An average player knows what a merc reflect looks like, what their energy shield looks like, etc. It won't kill you to learn what a couple of animations from other classes look like.

 

You can't balance pvp off of what bad players do, without causing even more problems. So treat skank tanks like valid opponents, and learn when to attack them and when to avoid them.

50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death.

 

/stupid overpowered

 

This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill.

 

To make it even more stupid DPS have this.

 

Definition: Sore Loser.

DPS could guard before, they just had to switch stances which took an extra GCD.

 

...

 

Switching came with a DPS reduction, 10% if I recall.

 

Let's put the back 10% DPS reduction while using Guard on all non-tank disciplines.

 

As someone said, DPS Guard is a cancer.

 

 

To most of the thread, a lot of you seem upset, butt hurt even

Edited July 25, 2017 by Foambreaker

When dps guard, they're still squishy as ever if you have any damage at all, you'll kill them first.

The only time I can see it being cancer if literally everyone with a guard, guarding someone on their team.

But cmon, who does that.

issue is some classes are noticeably sturdier in their dps spec than others.

 

Deception sin is one heck of a skank guard, and I'd bet in a group the hatred sin self-heal like mad.

 

Specs like Rage really dont offer as much. Veng can be decent.

 

Still you are at a bit of a crossroad.

 

While a single guard with a good healer (especially the very sturdy merc heals) can stall and require significant dps to break, its simple enough to focus fire the guarder.

 

Even a deception sin with a great healer will have issues being kept alive if you are also smart about using ccs, stuns and interupts on the healer at key moments (like you know the sin just used Shroud and deflection).

 

Issue is twofold really:

 

Currently a lot of classes are extremely sturdy, and TTK is very high. Its simple math to realize our health pool have been increasing a lot faster than our dps. Ex in 1.0, we had 1.5k dps roughly for 13k health.

 

Now we have 9k dps for 130k health. So while health got roughly 10x higher, dps only increased by a factor of 6 or so.

 

Also, we now have classes with much more complete defensives. Even the current runt runner PT has an impressive defensive array by 1.0 standard.

 

However, most of the maps have not been updated with that new reality. weither its respawn timers, average mobility of the classes (it now takes a lot less time to move from say spawn in Alderaan civil war, to an offnode).

 

So stall tactics are currently slightly too efficient, this is a fact.

 

But I wouldnt be so quick to point at the guard mechanic, as there is already a hard enough time to say an actual tank geared pvp tank is worth it.

 

Guard allows a tank to prevent team mates from being focus fired, allows the healer to aoe heals and have higher hps to counter the opposing dps, and the part tha is redirected to them is also reduced. Its the sole tool they have really in pvp to do that. Most tank have nice peel ability and such, but not significantly more so than their dps counterpart.

 

The way I see it you can have tank be either controller (have a crapload of ccs in the tank trees) or guarder.

 

The cc approach make the skank even worse imo.

 

So I'd say guard is right now the lesser of two evil, and that the rest of the game has to be balanced accordingly around it.

 

But currently pvp needs incentive to make tanks queue and worth it, without always making it to acid where "playing the acid" becomes the deciding factor, or allowing 3 players to indefinitely hold against 8, or at least delay enough so that when one of them eventually bites it he can run back before a 2nd is killed. The problem is mostly appeareant in alderaan, hypergate and odessen.

 

In Novare, less so because the method to "pop" cap the node allows a much superior number to cap it even on top of the defender.

 

While it has its moment where its annoying with team specialized in dying over the node, and when you yourself are ina team that is just chasing dps, its one of the map where stalls constantly get beaten. Much more than Hypergate or odessen.

 

 

TL:DR

 

Its no so much guard as we now have classes with more defensives, more escape, more mobility which make guard appear a lot stronger than it really is.

 

And a dps guarding is actually fairly easy to deal with, as they are a valid focus target, much more than a tank or a skank. Skanks are also decently easy to take down with some competent dps and an offensive cooldown.

 

Issue is the maps, TTK, and the increased efficiency of what I call "Lemming rush" tactic where you just throw ppl in sequence to die at a node, and it makes a chain of never ending warm bodies that keep respawning (mostly an alderaan civil war issue)

 

 

EDIT: as a side note, I have to say JC has mostly very bad pvp tanks. Most just slap their guard on a healer, then forget about it and run off. YOU as a healer have to constantly run after them to stay within 15m, and they typically run into the open, where you have 0 LoS availaible. Even better, they totally forget about it, and run off, and you dont realize it, and another tank cannot guard you unless you click it off yourself. And thats the part that do use their guard. I'd say 80% of my game as a healer I run around unguarded, even with clearly tank specs around.

 

And next is : do they remember their taunt is useful in pvp too? And not on healers?

Edited July 25, 2017 by verfallen

50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death.

 

/stupid overpowered

 

This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill.

 

To make it even more stupid DPS have this.

 

such a baby

50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death.

 

/stupid overpowered

 

This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill.

 

To make it even more stupid DPS have this.

 

Gets outplayed. Cries on forums.

 

L2P, make friends, get on comms, and work together. Tank/heal can be killed. Stop complaining about your failures

Huh strange how a see many people making more complicated versions of what I said lol.

 

Kill the squishy dps with guard on someone.

Make dps guardians/juggies viable

Make tank gear mean something

 

Oh and as a tank main, please return guard to just being a tank thing so I have a purpose again.

 

Simple steps that would stop the crying lol

Edited July 25, 2017 by KendraP

One way to "fix" it would be to double the damage the tank takes, but allow tank stats to mitigate the damage.

 

So:

Healer gets a 10k hit

Healer takes 5k

2x or 10k goes to tank

Tank mitigates 5k and takes 5k

 

For "real" tanks it is non-change, but for skanks and DPS guard they take 10k, double damage.

 

the troll is real.

thread should've been ended after this joke

50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death.

 

/stupid overpowered

 

This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill.

 

To make it even more stupid DPS have this.

 

Guard is fine.

The only problem is mercs 3 lifes.

 

So dond nerf guard just nerf mercs.

Edited July 25, 2017 by reppaz

Guard is fine.

The only problem is mercs 3 lifes.

 

So dond nerf guard just nerf mercs.

 

I believe the issue people have with guard is that skanking is so popular and dps specs of tank capable classes can also guard that it's almost uncommon for a healer not to have a guard.

 

Thus the reason I feel that any of my "reduce skanking" mechanisms would also help the guard situation.

50% damage reduction, no cool down lasts until death.

 

/stupid overpowered

 

This is why healers are so hard to kill; healers without guard are not that hard to kill.

 

To make it even more stupid DPS have this.

 

And off healing as dps is not stupid?

And off healing as dps is not stupid?

 

Reach for straws much, DPS heals hit for like 5% or LESS while Guard protects 50%.

Reach for straws much, DPS heals hit for like 5% or LESS while Guard protects 50%.

 

You are comparing a DPS off heal to a guard? Wouldn't the correct comparison be a DPS taunt and an off-heal?

 

Guard is completely not even in the ballpark.

Guard mechanic is fine. Bad DPS, matchmaking and slightly overtuned DCDs are the real issue.

 

This. +1

I think it would really benefit a lot of people that play dps to go sit on a operation/warzone dummy and learn some form of a rotation the general dps output I see from players is horrendous.

 

On top of all that seeing things like a taunted dps which reduces damage by 35% against everyone except for the taunter attacking a guarded healer with all offensive cds that's not even below 95% is disturbing. Lastly classes that are able to apply trauma should do so Maras/Snipers and all Tank specs, especially tank specs when they can apply trauma in aoe along with upkeeping it on a solo target please do so It goes a long way towards killing an enemy.

 

Not even going to mention CC=crowd control because people should already know the differences between different forms of CC like Hardstuns, Mezz, Hindered, Knockbacks, Knockdowns, Lifts, Roots, and Slows or how each of those fill a certain level to the Resolve bar and how it's not the best idea to Hardstun an enemy back to back and give them a Whitebar which is CC immunity outside of Slows or how when they have a Whitebar and a person uses a Root it turns into a slow instead.

 

Then of course no real point in telling ppl to make the class they're having trouble fighting and learn how it works and by that I mean what are some common combos or opening strats ppl do especially for classes like Sins and dps Opers.

 

Absolutely don't need to mention to ppl how to read the map and take notice of the terrain and how many ppl are where and doing what.

 

This isn't a guard issue this is a case of ppl not being aware of everything going on around them not knowing how to properly utilize all their class/spec can offer, not knowing how other classes work. But Most of all the biggest thing I see is not working as a team.

 

Practice makes perfect and I think a great deal of people need to practice instead of ramming their heads against the wall with the same tactic every single time.

The biggest issue in game from my perspective, is ****** dps players. They dont interrupt, they immediately white-bar, and they have a seriously bad habit of just focusing whoever attacks them instead of getting on the healer. If you let a quality guarded healer free cast for the entirety of the match, nobody on their team is dying.

 

When I'm grouped with competent dps players, they almost always out-pace me on my tank. But in a strong majority of PUG's ill be top damage as a skank tank. ToR has an exceedingly high amount of Mad Cuz Bad.

I think it would really benefit a lot of people that play dps to go sit on a operation/warzone dummy and learn some form of a rotation the general dps output I see from players is horrendous.

 

On top of all that seeing things like a taunted dps which reduces damage by 35% against everyone except for the taunter attacking a guarded healer with all offensive cds that's not even below 95% is disturbing. Lastly classes that are able to apply trauma should do so Maras/Snipers and all Tank specs, especially tank specs when they can apply trauma in aoe along with upkeeping it on a solo target please do so It goes a long way towards killing an enemy.

 

Not even going to mention CC=crowd control because people should already know the differences between different forms of CC like Hardstuns, Mezz, Hindered, Knockbacks, Knockdowns, Lifts, Roots, and Slows or how each of those fill a certain level to the Resolve bar and how it's not the best idea to Hardstun an enemy back to back and give them a Whitebar which is CC immunity outside of Slows or how when they have a Whitebar and a person uses a Root it turns into a slow instead.

 

Then of course no real point in telling ppl to make the class they're having trouble fighting and learn how it works and by that I mean what are some common combos or opening strats ppl do especially for classes like Sins and dps Opers.

 

Absolutely don't need to mention to ppl how to read the map and take notice of the terrain and how many ppl are where and doing what.

 

This isn't a guard issue this is a case of ppl not being aware of everything going on around them not knowing how to properly utilize all their class/spec can offer, not knowing how other classes work. But Most of all the biggest thing I see is not working as a team.

 

Practice makes perfect and I think a great deal of people need to practice instead of ramming their heads against the wall with the same tactic every single time.

rated 10/10

lol, fail discussion: All DPS is bad therefore a 50% damage Reduction is OK.

 

That's some pixel macho logic you got there

Edited July 25, 2017 by Foambreaker

lol, fail discussion: All DPS is bad therefore a 50% damage Reduction is OK.

 

That's some pixel macho logic you got there

 

These guys are just lucky to play on servers where people still hadn't found out how opped skank-tanks can be. Not only it is unreal to kill someone when a skilled tank swaps guard and skilled healer is in group, skank-tanks are also doing huge dps lol. I often see skank-tanks reaching r1-3 dps stats on warzone even though the group has skilled dpsers. This is not normal

Edited July 25, 2017 by omaan

These guys are just lucky to play on servers where people still hadn't found out how opped skank-tanks can be. Not only it is unreal to kill someone when a skilled tank swaps guard and skilled healer is in group, skank-tanks are also doing huge dps lol. I often see skank-tanks reaching r1-3 dps stats on warzone even though the group has skilled dpsers. This is not normal

 

 

Skank tanks are not doing better dps than dps. They do fine dps and are very tough but if a dps is being out dps' by a skank tank...maybe they aren't all that skilled a dps.

 

I'm not ever arguing that skank tanking is a good thing but your exagration is unneeded and weakens any arguement you make.