So here is the matter. Doing flashpoints at lvl50 is completely and utterly pointless. With 2 characters now, a tank and a healer, I haven't done any flashpoints. Why? Because they are not worth the effort. Normal mode loot is worthless, you can craft/buy from GTN/get armorings from dailies and those are good enough to breeze through normal EV and KP.

 

Let's take False emp. On HM, it takes like 1.5h to do. We cleared both operations on normal in 3h, 3 hours! I was the MT with nothing but crafted/daily comm gear with no problems. Our 2nd healer dinged 50 6h prior to the raid. This was our alt raid, that consists of (shockingly) alts. We have 2 main groups that do hard/nightmare.

 

Now I'm aware that people that do not want to do operations only have flashpoints but, those of us with a decent guild can completely ignore flashpoints. Is this intended? If so, fine, that's the design decision but I just find it kind of... self-defeating.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Possible solutions? Working as intended? I'm just wondering, this isn't a thread about whining that the game is catered to the casuals, so do not even go there.

different people play.

 

with different playstyles.

 

in which nobody's style is better than anothers.

 

swtor provides for many types of playstyles.

 

enjoy your style.

 

I'm enjoying mine.

 

others are enjoying theirs.

different people play.

 

with different playstyles.

 

in which nobody's style is better than anothers.

 

swtor provides for many types of playstyles.

 

enjoy your style.

 

I'm enjoying mine.

 

others are enjoying theirs.

 

The post was only a few VERY short paragraphs... and you didn't even bother reading that?

So it is that easy on the pve side One of the reason I left that 7 year old game.

It is working as intended.

 

Bioware said that normal mode operations would be clear able by people in questing gear long before the game went live.

Wow...

 

I mean I do agree a little bit the loot needs to be spread out more.. i.e. gotta do normal fps to gear up for hm fps/normal ops, gotta do those to gear up for hm ops, then gotta do those to gear up for NM ops..

 

but yea.. an alt run by ppl who cleared NM is NEVER gonna be indicative of what ppl coming into normal the first time will see or be capable of. Really dude??

So here is the matter. Doing flashpoints at lvl50 is completely and utterly pointless. With 2 characters now, a tank and a healer, I haven't done any flashpoints. Why? Because they are not worth the effort. Normal mode loot is worthless, you can craft/buy from GTN/get armorings from dailies and those are good enough to breeze through normal EV and KP.

 

Let's take False emp. On HM, it takes like 1.5h to do. We cleared both operations on normal in 3h, 3 hours! I was the MT with nothing but crafted/daily comm gear with no problems. Our 2nd healer dinged 50 6h prior to the raid. This was our alt raid, that consists of (shockingly) alts. We have 2 main groups that do hard/nightmare.

 

Now I'm aware that people that do not want to do operations only have flashpoints but, those of us with a decent guild can completely ignore flashpoints. Is this intended? If so, fine, that's the design decision but I just find it kind of... self-defeating.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Possible solutions? Working as intended? I'm just wondering, this isn't a thread about whining that the game is catered to the casuals, so do not even go there.

 

You are 100% correct...

I started a topic here about this issue...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=323308

Now I'm aware that people that do not want to do operations only have flashpoints but, those of us with a decent guild can completely ignore flashpoints. Is this intended?

 

It's a choice. It's not forced upon you and YOU have made the decision to skip them. Why is this an issue??

HM Flashpoints are harder than Normal Ops. I feel like it was probably intended.

It is working as intended.

 

Bioware said that normal mode operations would be clear able by people in questing gear long before the game went live.

 

Ehhmm he is talking about hardmoe FP's . you should be in mostly columi to do HMfp's if they are doing it in oranges with daily mods he is correct their is a design flaw.

those of us with a decent guild can completely ignore flashpoints.

 

Is this not true in any MMO? I only have Warcraft to compare this game to, but the high end guilds there farm the raid content so quickly that I'm pretty sure they don't 'need' to farm smaller group content.

 

Those who have easy OPs access will always be able to leap frog FPs, especially the better the overall skill level of the guild in question.

Is this not true in any MMO? I only have Warcraft to compare this game to, but the high end guilds there farm the raid content so quickly that I'm pretty sure they don't 'need' to farm smaller group content.

 

Those who have easy OPs access will always be able to leap frog FPs, especially the better the overall skill level of the guild in question.

 

No, this wasn't always the case. In the early days of WoW, you had to gear up via the "normal" instances and also complete quests within them to unlock the raid(s).

 

Saying that skipping flashpoints is a choice, while correct, is also lazy and taking the easy way out. Good design provides incentives or reasons for players to experience all provided content.

but you've already done it once on your main obviously

 

i'm sure you didn't do all the heroic quests on balmorra while leveling your alt, or all the normal mode flashpoints on the way up for that matter

 

why would you need to?

 

 

people already complain that they're forced to jump through hoops on their alts to be able to run the foundry on hard mode, do you want a prerequisite of D7, BoI and FE on normal before the operation opens up?

These things are all weaved together in a way to provide different kinds of content to different players at different levels.

 

Sure, if you intend to be more focused on Ops you will probably be able to skip normal mode level 50 flashpoints, but then again, if you do them in line with the leveling curve, like Battle of Ilum, Kaon, and False Emp as a fresh 50, there might be some upgrades, and if nothing else, you get to learn the mechanics in game instead of hitting a how to site.

 

Normal Mode Ops are designed to be puggable, and the loot system in use there is indicative of that, that being there is a bit more loot, but it auto-assigns a winner, which could easily mean that loot isn't going to who needs it, or you don't get the right loot for your spec.

 

Hard Mode Flashpoints are an alternate way to gear up for people who prefer smaller more story driven content, it drops the same level of gear that Normal Mode ops does, but the group has more control of who gets it. It could also be a good way for someone interested in Ops to focus on a gear item they haven't had much luck with in Normal Mode Ops. Its also a good alternative way to get crafting items.

 

Hard Mode Ops are designed to be the baseline mode for Guilds that are Ops focused and you have control over loot distribution and get a some better loot.

It seems to me that the loot in HM FPs needs to be upgraded. I have only done Taral V for the daily/weekly. I haven't done any other FP (except Kaon normal). I am in full Columi gear working on Rakata.

 

I loved HMs in that other MMO, but it was totally worth doing for badges/gear. The gear in FPs is awful. I don't want to spend 1-2hrs with no chance at a reward, but I want to want to do FPs...

So it is that easy on the pve side One of the reason I left that 7 year old game.

 

LOL

 

That "7 year old game" has nothing even closely resembling easy end game content.

 

You weren't in a top 100 US guild, and you weren't in a server first progression guild in hardmode content. So you didn't leave because end game was "easy".

 

Stop making stuff up just to help justify your reasoning for leaving. Nobody is going to hold it against you if you say you left because the game was too hard, or you left because of Panda-people. That's fine. But to claim you left because it was easy? LMAO

Is this not true in any MMO? I only have Warcraft to compare this game to, but the high end guilds there farm the raid content so quickly that I'm pretty sure they don't 'need' to farm smaller group content.

 

Those who have easy OPs access will always be able to leap frog FPs, especially the better the overall skill level of the guild in question.

 

Those guilds hit the 5 man content at the beginning of an expansion - but yes they bypass it (like most raiders) during content updates.

if the desire is to have a wow-style engame, that is instances, hard mode instances, raids and hm raids then there must be a progression.

 

complete the instances until geared enough for the HM instances. Complete the HM instances to collect a starting raid set that allows you to begin raiding. And so on. But this game doesnt seem to follow that design.

 

Let's take False emp. On HM, it takes like 1.5h to do.

 

 

 

That's about an hour longer than I've ever seen it take. If it takes this long for your group to do HM FE, then no, it isn't worth it.

I guess people have different interests, but I am surprised at the number of posts that seem to request more grinding for gear. If you are lucky enough to be in a guild that runs ops, then FPs are still good for filling out the gear that doesn't drop for you. Once you finish your Columi set, they do become obsolete, but are still fun to run. Yes, I geared up very quickly (Currently 8pc Rakata with Champion Mainhand and the rest Columi), but I never felt myself wishing it was slower.

It takes me usually 40-45 minutes to run HM FE.

LOL

 

That "7 year old game" has nothing even closely resembling easy end game content.

 

You weren't in a top 100 US guild, and you weren't in a server first progression guild in hardmode content. So you didn't leave because end game was "easy".

 

Stop making stuff up just to help justify your reasoning for leaving. Nobody is going to hold it against you if you say you left because the game was too hard, or you left because of Panda-people. That's fine. But to claim you left because it was easy? LMAO

 

Hmm. Methinks a WoW troll slipped past the nets.

 

Someone. Get the spray.

Ehhmm he is talking about hardmoe FP's . you should be in mostly columi to do HMfp's if they are doing it in oranges with daily mods he is correct their is a design flaw.

 

Don't worry he isn't doing Hard Mode 8 mans with fresh 50s.

 

If so I would love to see a video of this, since all their lifepools would be around 12k-13k

they wouldn't even be able to jump down to the bottom of Soa without killing half the raid from fall dmg.

 

Troll harder or get out.

 

BTW, do you have 16man Nightmare on farm..... didn't think so.