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Rooting for TOR to fail won't bring back SWG


Liquidzero

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I can't imagine investors kicking in millions and millions of dollars for not one, but two Star Wars MMO's that have failed. Better hope TOR survives, because you will NEVER see another SW MMO after this one.

 

This is a Star Wars MMO?

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SWG is dead. All that it has left is Nostalgia. Anybody who didn't play it before wouldn't play it now.

 

Guys, what I hope for you missing it is that you can create or join a private server someone created. It won't be brought back. It was cool for its time but the best you can hope for is something underground done with it. I hope you can get that.

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SWG is dead. All that it has left is Nostalgia. Anybody who didn't play it before wouldn't play it now.

 

Guys, what I hope for you missing it is that you can create or join a private server someone created. It won't be brought back. It was cool for its time but the best you can hope for is something underground done with it. I hope you can get that.

 

Actually SWG is not dead. It was resurrected by a dedicated talented fanbase. I am not gonna link it here as you all can google for it.

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The dedication to original vision of SWG is astounding. I can't believe how much work has gone into keeping it alive.

 

It makes me wnder if people would do the same here. Every time I see someone leave SWTOR it seems they are going to another game that can replace the gaming time they have.

 

With SWG there is no other alternative but to rebuild it.

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If they just implemented some of what made SWG so great here, this game would do much better. Little things that brought people together. This game is so single player based. Just having a conversation with someone is a pain. Forget trying to chat with more than one person. I know chat bubbles are not wanted by some but, if they could be turned off what does it matter? Also having more ways to make your toon look different from everyone els is a big issue. Having a place of your own to display things would be nice. Unfortunatly there are no "trophies" in this game so I suppose that isn't as big of a deal.

 

I guess what kept me into SWG well past the point of any end game content was being able to look however I wanted (wearing ANY gear in any color) on a day to day basis and being able to have conversations with people in an easy to read way.

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That's a really good point and something I hadn't considered.

 

I loved SWG, it was my favorite and only MMO that I would play when it was around. I tried Wow and Eve but they just never held my interest. Even when I took long breaks from it I'd always return.

 

I played the EMU for about 3 days back in August then decided to return here. There's something that people forget after all these years and it was reinforced to me when I played it in August, Pre-CU is nostalgic for sure... but it's not a good game itself and I'll explain.

 

We often tend to look back to the past with rose colored glasses if it was something that we enjoyed. SWG has many, many, things that I loved such as crafting complexity, skill trees, player housing, setting, etc. I love the game design of SWG and it got a lot of things right. These are the things people miss.

 

What I realized though is that Pre-CU the combat is terrible now that I've played SWG through the NGE and SWTOR. The combat queue is slow and and clunky and there is nothing tactical whatsoever about it. In fact doing anything other than spamming your highest damage attack by hitting the button a million times along with throwing in an occasional knockdown is counterproductive to your survival.

 

Additionally I had to find doctors to buff me again making combat completely dependent on the availability of other players being online and having the supplies I need. It's not set up for quick casual play sessions, you'd be wasting the money you paid for your buff if real life said you only had 20-30 minutes to play.

 

In truth, it would be extremely hard for a diehard Pre-CU person to admit this, the game that was shut down last year was light years better than the shell of one you can play now if you so choose. SWG had amazing design elements but the combat was not what you expect of an MMO in the modern era and is completely lacking. All these years later I finally get it and forgive Lucas Arts and SOE for the CU and NGE. Go play the EMU and if you are honest you'll forgive them too.

Edited by Tim-ONeil
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I can't imagine investors kicking in millions and millions of dollars for not one, but two Star Wars MMO's that have failed. Better hope TOR survives, because you will NEVER see another SW MMO after this one.

 

While I agree TOR failing will not suddenly rebound back to SWG

 

SWG was dead long before TOR was in the works and probably should have closed doors years before TOR release.

 

So nothing bringing back SWG as a commercial product!

The few remaining fans will have to settle themselves with the EMU versions being worked on.

 

But sorry your wrong about this being the last Star Wars MMO.

 

It might take another decade and maybe even a new movie somewhere down the line but there will be another SW MMORPG because anyone with any business sense can tell you

Star Wars done right = HUGE PROFIT MARGIN

 

Star Wars just hasnt been done right yet in the MMORPG genre

 

Much of the problem is the 2 groups of devs that designed the 2 titles restricted themselves to other game designs rather then create its own design.

 

TOR is just WOW with voice overs and more story. It could have been so much more but the devs wanted to make WOW in space and thats what they made. PERIOD.

 

SWG was just Ultima Online in space. ANYONE that played UO from launch could see the blatant design copies between the 2 games. Hell they even took a class from UO and put it in SWG despite it not even remotely fitting with the Star Wars lore.

 

What a Star Wars MMORPG needs is its own identity thats purely Star Wars.

 

Its ok to borrow from other games but both TOR and SWG went over the ledge and turned borrowing into copying.

 

And both games have pretty much crashed and burned financially because of it.

 

The sad thing about TOR is, if the developers had even bothered reading their own forums. There was a early outpouring from the fan base (many who still post here today) on what game they wanted. A few people asked for outrageous things like perm death and courpse looting (and other ideas that will never fly in MMORPGs) but on a whole if the devs had looked, read, discussed, and designed from those early posts, none of the back lash you see today would be happening.

 

I REALLY hope who ever makes the next MMORPG (forget Star Wars, just the next MMORPG title) has learned from the EA/BW debacle that ignoreing your fan base and not communicating with them (on your forums, not your twitter, not your facebook, but on your FORUMS) is almost a sure fired way to ensure failure in this genre. Communication is key.

 

Listen to your cust base!

 

Not the brown nosers and suck ups as they add nothing relevant or worthwhile to the discussion.

Not the haters that scream everything sucks but never say why

 

Listen to your cust base that present ideas and complaints and explain both fully so there is no misunderstanding.

 

And most of all, dont allow those same brown nosers and suck up to troll your subscriber base when they do complain.

CARE what someone has to say when they take the time to post why they leaving. Their posting is a last diotch cry out to you saying they want to like the game but this is whats wrong. Allowing trolls to openly bash and insult them for putting the final post up hurts you far more and far longer then banning the trolls ever will.

 

Communication is key in this genre!

 

There will be another SW mmorpg, its to promising of a title not to be tried again.

I just hope the next group LEARN from the 2 previous groups on what and how they screwed up and how to avoid it all themselves.

 

(in my geakiest Star Wars dream I dream of a MMORPG with 100s of planets and thriving cantinas of gamblers and swoop racers. Adventures everywhere. Open world PVP where the very planet is the prize. Where skill and ability trump stuns and equipment. Where you pick and choose your companions and you are lead on adventures as you learn about them and explore their storylines. And so very very very much more)

 

TOR had the right idea conceptually. Unfortunately their devs saw TOR as WOW with a Star Wars shell over top of it.

 

The MMORPG genre requires and DESERVES much more imaginative and exciting creators and designers IMO!

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While I agree TOR failing will not suddenly rebound back to SWG

 

SWG was dead long before TOR was in the works and probably should have closed doors years before TOR release.

 

So nothing bringing back SWG as a commercial product!

The few remaining fans will have to settle themselves with the EMU versions being worked on.

 

But sorry your wrong about this being the last Star Wars MMO.

 

It might take another decade and maybe even a new movie somewhere down the line but there will be another SW MMORPG because anyone with any business sense can tell you

Star Wars done right = HUGE PROFIT MARGIN

 

Star Wars just hasnt been done right yet in the MMORPG genre

 

Much of the problem is the 2 groups of devs that designed the 2 titles restricted themselves to other game designs rather then create its own design.

 

TOR is just WOW with voice overs and more story. It could have been so much more but the devs wanted to make WOW in space and thats what they made. PERIOD.

 

SWG was just Ultima Online in space. ANYONE that played UO from launch could see the blatant design copies between the 2 games. Hell they even took a class from UO and put it in SWG despite it not even remotely fitting with the Star Wars lore.

 

What a Star Wars MMORPG needs is its own identity thats purely Star Wars.

 

Its ok to borrow from other games but both TOR and SWG went over the ledge and turned borrowing into copying.

 

And both games have pretty much crashed and burned financially because of it.

 

The sad thing about TOR is, if the developers had even bothered reading their own forums. There was a early outpouring from the fan base (many who still post here today) on what game they wanted. A few people asked for outrageous things like perm death and courpse looting (and other ideas that will never fly in MMORPGs) but on a whole if the devs had looked, read, discussed, and designed from those early posts, none of the back lash you see today would be happening.

 

I REALLY hope who ever makes the next MMORPG (forget Star Wars, just the next MMORPG title) has learned from the EA/BW debacle that ignoreing your fan base and not communicating with them (on your forums, not your twitter, not your facebook, but on your FORUMS) is almost a sure fired way to ensure failure in this genre. Communication is key.

 

Listen to your cust base!

 

Not the brown nosers and suck ups as they add nothing relevant or worthwhile to the discussion.

Not the haters that scream everything sucks but never say why

 

Listen to your cust base that present ideas and complaints and explain both fully so there is no misunderstanding.

 

And most of all, dont allow those same brown nosers and suck up to troll your subscriber base when they do complain.

CARE what someone has to say when they take the time to post why they leaving. Their posting is a last diotch cry out to you saying they want to like the game but this is whats wrong. Allowing trolls to openly bash and insult them for putting the final post up hurts you far more and far longer then banning the trolls ever will.

 

Communication is key in this genre!

 

There will be another SW mmorpg, its to promising of a title not to be tried again.

I just hope the next group LEARN from the 2 previous groups on what and how they screwed up and how to avoid it all themselves.

 

(in my geakiest Star Wars dream I dream of a MMORPG with 100s of planets and thriving cantinas of gamblers and swoop racers. Adventures everywhere. Open world PVP where the very planet is the prize. Where skill and ability trump stuns and equipment. Where you pick and choose your companions and you are lead on adventures as you learn about them and explore their storylines. And so very very very much more)

 

TOR had the right idea conceptually. Unfortunately their devs saw TOR as WOW with a Star Wars shell over top of it.

 

The MMORPG genre requires and DESERVES much more imaginative and exciting creators and designers IMO!

 

+1 to you ,sir.

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I can't imagine investors kicking in millions and millions of dollars for not one, but two Star Wars MMO's that have failed. Better hope TOR survives, because you will NEVER see another SW MMO after this one.

 

This being the only SW MMORPG won't stop it failing. :(

 

 

Including the best bits from SWG and DAoC might though. :csw_yoda:

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While I agree TOR failing will not suddenly rebound back to SWG

 

SWG was dead long before TOR was in the works and probably should have closed doors years before TOR release.

 

So nothing bringing back SWG as a commercial product!

The few remaining fans will have to settle themselves with the EMU versions being worked on.

 

But sorry your wrong about this being the last Star Wars MMO.

 

It might take another decade and maybe even a new movie somewhere down the line but there will be another SW MMORPG because anyone with any business sense can tell you

Star Wars done right = HUGE PROFIT MARGIN

 

Star Wars just hasnt been done right yet in the MMORPG genre

 

Much of the problem is the 2 groups of devs that designed the 2 titles restricted themselves to other game designs rather then create its own design.

 

TOR is just WOW with voice overs and more story. It could have been so much more but the devs wanted to make WOW in space and thats what they made. PERIOD.

 

SWG was just Ultima Online in space. ANYONE that played UO from launch could see the blatant design copies between the 2 games. Hell they even took a class from UO and put it in SWG despite it not even remotely fitting with the Star Wars lore.

 

What a Star Wars MMORPG needs is its own identity thats purely Star Wars.

 

Its ok to borrow from other games but both TOR and SWG went over the ledge and turned borrowing into copying.

 

And both games have pretty much crashed and burned financially because of it.

 

The sad thing about TOR is, if the developers had even bothered reading their own forums. There was a early outpouring from the fan base (many who still post here today) on what game they wanted. A few people asked for outrageous things like perm death and courpse looting (and other ideas that will never fly in MMORPGs) but on a whole if the devs had looked, read, discussed, and designed from those early posts, none of the back lash you see today would be happening.

 

I REALLY hope who ever makes the next MMORPG (forget Star Wars, just the next MMORPG title) has learned from the EA/BW debacle that ignoreing your fan base and not communicating with them (on your forums, not your twitter, not your facebook, but on your FORUMS) is almost a sure fired way to ensure failure in this genre. Communication is key.

 

Listen to your cust base!

 

Not the brown nosers and suck ups as they add nothing relevant or worthwhile to the discussion.

Not the haters that scream everything sucks but never say why

 

Listen to your cust base that present ideas and complaints and explain both fully so there is no misunderstanding.

 

And most of all, dont allow those same brown nosers and suck up to troll your subscriber base when they do complain.

CARE what someone has to say when they take the time to post why they leaving. Their posting is a last diotch cry out to you saying they want to like the game but this is whats wrong. Allowing trolls to openly bash and insult them for putting the final post up hurts you far more and far longer then banning the trolls ever will.

 

Communication is key in this genre!

 

There will be another SW mmorpg, its to promising of a title not to be tried again.

I just hope the next group LEARN from the 2 previous groups on what and how they screwed up and how to avoid it all themselves.

 

(in my geakiest Star Wars dream I dream of a MMORPG with 100s of planets and thriving cantinas of gamblers and swoop racers. Adventures everywhere. Open world PVP where the very planet is the prize. Where skill and ability trump stuns and equipment. Where you pick and choose your companions and you are lead on adventures as you learn about them and explore their storylines. And so very very very much more)

 

TOR had the right idea conceptually. Unfortunately their devs saw TOR as WOW with a Star Wars shell over top of it.

 

The MMORPG genre requires and DESERVES much more imaginative and exciting creators and designers IMO!

 

Listening to the fan base is an illusion set up to make the product seem more genuine as a modern product.

 

They said Win 7 was designed by the Windows users with their complaints and recommendations. However, its really just the devs of any product taking good ideas and putting them in a product or otherwise that means they did not think of the idea.

 

Now with swtor, the ideas the fans were spewing repeatedly on the forums 2 years before launch were a lot of old ideas.

 

The only new ideas was people wanting, was a hybrid MMO. That was the only thing that seems unique other than the expected content.

 

And BW did not make the expected content for their MMO without the need for a fan base to tell them. For example, pazaak at release, duel arenas with a tournament system, more than 3 WZs, a promise to release a large WZ soon, customization that was not so penalizing and more custom gear and rewards from FP or end game content. More races for character creation, and wierder looking aliens, Swoop racing instead of space combat as a mini game. 3d space combat in the future instead of wasting development on more space missions. OPen world pvp with objectives, and rewards, and how its important for pvpers to run into each other while questing, and not necessarily in questing areas but have areas that have open world objectives. Player ship decoration, game optimization for large scale pvp. Illum with actual mechanics rather than an open space and 'buffs'. And there can be more expected content that they dont even need us fans to say, but they left out.

 

ANd Bw even claims that their desgin of thier game was what the fans voiced. That they wanted story. Or something like that, I am still flabbergasted from where this perception comes. And how apparently the swtor fans wanted a single player game first, and pay $15 a month for it, while waiting for the MMO to be developed. Did anyone want that?

 

I am guessing not, and even if fans wanted story to be good, I am sure none fo them said they wanted to trade out the MMO features to have that.

 

I am sorry to say, but the devs did not listen, and instead misheard the fans, and were too busy making their own game without knowing how to make an MMO, and thats the problem, even if a lot wanted good story, they should have never given up the MMO part since that is what the development for swtor is actually based on.

 

edit: Also maybe if they listened more to the fans from what they said they were developing, it would have been better, because I dont remember anyone asking for good side questing, but of course they wanted good story. So that is something the BW devs decided to add, and put a lot of effort into it as well, which cost development production towards other projects. And, unfortunately for a lot of people it was not worth it. They did not want to spend $15 a month for what they felt was more of a single player experience.

 

The problem is not just alternative content that made swtor feel limiting due to expectations (especially for pvp), but also how solo friendly it was, and very themeparkish without a dynamic feel. For example day/night cycle, it would have made a big difference.

Edited by VegaPhone
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oh yea somewhere out there , theres a kid , with a glimpse in his/her eyes

 

" i want to make the best STAR WARS game , ever made,,and it has to be MMO,

 

so i can play with my friends , and meet new people too"

 

but they cant do that , as long as this one is alive

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oh yea somewhere out there , theres a kid , with a glimpse in his/her eyes

 

" i want to make the best STAR WARS game , ever made,,and it has to be MMO,

 

so i can play with my friends , and meet new people too"

 

but they cant do that , as long as this one is alive

 

They can't do it period. Lucas Arts owns the rights to Star Wars. You can't make your own game without their consent and sell it for a profit. They manage the IP very tightly.

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as for imagination and creativity yes, but only to a certain point

 

more important is simply craftsmanship,,long work hours instead of "a good idea",

 

which often turns into a simple shortcut

 

im sick of MMOs, promising "ohhh shiny new feature", which,

 

A) usually dont work for the first 2- 3 years

 

B) giving the devs an excuse to skimp on normal gameplay features

 

in this game , the VOs actually worked, but they werent good enough to cover for the rest of its flaws

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They can't do it period. Lucas Arts owns the rights to Star Wars. You can't make your own game without their consent and sell it for a profit. They manage the IP very tightly.

 

i know,,and im anxious to how lucasarts will handle this,,this is hurting the IP too, u know

 

i dont know if theyre on yearly contract, but i guess lucasart can stop them , if they want to?

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I can't imagine investors kicking in millions and millions of dollars for not one, but two Star Wars MMO's that have failed. Better hope TOR survives, because you will NEVER see another SW MMO after this one.

 

Nonsense, the IP and potential is enormous, just not properly utilized. SWG was a total success by MMO standards right up until the devs tried to force their vision of fun onto the playerbase who were happy where they were.

 

SWTOR was made by a development house with zero MMO experience and it showed, they didnt manage to lock onto the x factor to make the game a roaring sucess which is a shame because there is many really good aspects of the game, just many bad ones too and terrible code.

 

It simply takes a development team who know how to progress, listen and create, sadly thats much, much harder to find than it sounds because the ego is rampant in games and they believe what they want is what everyone wants or is what everyone SHOULD want and to hell with it.

Edited by Slurmez
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oh yea,,there WILL be a EPIC SW MMO,,,one day

 

and those who make it will get so rich, that they can buy ANYTHING

 

this one was pretty close in some ways, if they had given it 2 or 3 years more developement

 

more content, better combat system, lesser bugs,,,then it would at least have been a good mmo

 

still not epic though

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While I agree TOR failing will not suddenly rebound back to SWG

 

SWG was dead long before TOR was in the works and probably should have closed doors years before TOR release.

 

So nothing bringing back SWG as a commercial product!

The few remaining fans will have to settle themselves with the EMU versions being worked on.

 

But sorry your wrong about this being the last Star Wars MMO.

 

It might take another decade and maybe even a new movie somewhere down the line but there will be another SW MMORPG because anyone with any business sense can tell you

Star Wars done right = HUGE PROFIT MARGIN

 

Star Wars just hasnt been done right yet in the MMORPG genre

 

Much of the problem is the 2 groups of devs that designed the 2 titles restricted themselves to other game designs rather then create its own design.

 

TOR is just WOW with voice overs and more story. It could have been so much more but the devs wanted to make WOW in space and thats what they made. PERIOD.

 

SWG was just Ultima Online in space. ANYONE that played UO from launch could see the blatant design copies between the 2 games. Hell they even took a class from UO and put it in SWG despite it not even remotely fitting with the Star Wars lore.

 

What a Star Wars MMORPG needs is its own identity thats purely Star Wars.

 

Its ok to borrow from other games but both TOR and SWG went over the ledge and turned borrowing into copying.

 

And both games have pretty much crashed and burned financially because of it.

 

The sad thing about TOR is, if the developers had even bothered reading their own forums. There was a early outpouring from the fan base (many who still post here today) on what game they wanted. A few people asked for outrageous things like perm death and courpse looting (and other ideas that will never fly in MMORPGs) but on a whole if the devs had looked, read, discussed, and designed from those early posts, none of the back lash you see today would be happening.

 

I REALLY hope who ever makes the next MMORPG (forget Star Wars, just the next MMORPG title) has learned from the EA/BW debacle that ignoreing your fan base and not communicating with them (on your forums, not your twitter, not your facebook, but on your FORUMS) is almost a sure fired way to ensure failure in this genre. Communication is key.

 

Listen to your cust base!

 

Not the brown nosers and suck ups as they add nothing relevant or worthwhile to the discussion.

Not the haters that scream everything sucks but never say why

 

Listen to your cust base that present ideas and complaints and explain both fully so there is no misunderstanding.

 

And most of all, dont allow those same brown nosers and suck up to troll your subscriber base when they do complain.

CARE what someone has to say when they take the time to post why they leaving. Their posting is a last diotch cry out to you saying they want to like the game but this is whats wrong. Allowing trolls to openly bash and insult them for putting the final post up hurts you far more and far longer then banning the trolls ever will.

 

Communication is key in this genre!

 

There will be another SW mmorpg, its to promising of a title not to be tried again.

I just hope the next group LEARN from the 2 previous groups on what and how they screwed up and how to avoid it all themselves.

 

(in my geakiest Star Wars dream I dream of a MMORPG with 100s of planets and thriving cantinas of gamblers and swoop racers. Adventures everywhere. Open world PVP where the very planet is the prize. Where skill and ability trump stuns and equipment. Where you pick and choose your companions and you are lead on adventures as you learn about them and explore their storylines. And so very very very much more)

 

TOR had the right idea conceptually. Unfortunately their devs saw TOR as WOW with a Star Wars shell over top of it.

 

The MMORPG genre requires and DESERVES much more imaginative and exciting creators and designers IMO!

 

I agree, if you look around today I see several mmo's that are in devolpment, that say Theme park/Sandbox hybrid, and those games are from indie studios, I hope they can see them through. If there ever is another Star wars mmo, I think Lucas Arts may do it in house, since they revamped their gaming division they are not contracting out much or any at all in the future. I think the next big mmo will come from an indie studio, that realizes the wow model of gaming is getting old and tired for allot of people, the main stream studio's make these games off a formula and as we see in TOR they did not vary to far off course, if TOR would have launched 3 or 4 years ago it would have been a huge hit.. the main stream studios seem to stiffle creatvity and lack in inovation these days. Where the indie studio for the most part thrives off creativity and inovation.

 

I am Sure we will see some Star Wars stand alone games like 1313 coming up next years. I wish they could get some elements in TOR that make us feel like our toons live in the world and not just playing through the world, that is the biggest issue with most of the mmo's as of late. I guess we will see what the future holds so many thing are changin..:)

Edited by kevlarto
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Listening to the fan base is an illusion set up to make the product seem more genuine as a modern product.

 

They said Win 7 was designed by the Windows users with their complaints and recommendations. However, its really just the devs of any product taking good ideas and putting them in a product or otherwise that means they did not think of the idea.

 

Now with swtor, the ideas the fans were spewing repeatedly on the forums 2 years before launch were a lot of old ideas.

 

The only new ideas was people wanting, was a hybrid MMO. That was the only thing that seems unique other than the expected content.

 

And BW did not make the expected content for their MMO without the need for a fan base to tell them. For example, pazaak at release, duel arenas with a tournament system, more than 3 WZs, a promise to release a large WZ soon, customization that was not so penalizing and more custom gear and rewards from FP or end game content. More races for character creation, and wierder looking aliens, Swoop racing instead of space combat as a mini game. 3d space combat in the future instead of wasting development on more space missions. OPen world pvp with objectives, and rewards, and how its important for pvpers to run into each other while questing, and not necessarily in questing areas but have areas that have open world objectives. Player ship decoration, game optimization for large scale pvp. Illum with actual mechanics rather than an open space and 'buffs'. And there can be more expected content that they dont even need us fans to say, but they left out.

 

ANd Bw even claims that their desgin of thier game was what the fans voiced. That they wanted story. Or something like that, I am still flabbergasted from where this perception comes. And how apparently the swtor fans wanted a single player game first, and pay $15 a month for it, while waiting for the MMO to be developed. Did anyone want that?

 

I am guessing not, and even if fans wanted story to be good, I am sure none fo them said they wanted to trade out the MMO features to have that.

 

I am sorry to say, but the devs did not listen, and instead misheard the fans, and were too busy making their own game without knowing how to make an MMO, and thats the problem, even if a lot wanted good story, they should have never given up the MMO part since that is what the development for swtor is actually based on.

 

edit: Also maybe if they listened more to the fans from what they said they were developing, it would have been better, because I dont remember anyone asking for good side questing, but of course they wanted good story. So that is something the BW devs decided to add, and put a lot of effort into it as well, which cost development production towards other projects. And, unfortunately for a lot of people it was not worth it. They did not want to spend $15 a month for what they felt was more of a single player experience.

 

The problem is not just alternative content that made swtor feel limiting due to expectations (especially for pvp), but also how solo friendly it was, and very themeparkish without a dynamic feel. For example day/night cycle, it would have made a big difference.

 

Which they did. Go back and watch the old E3 announces for SWTOR. The #1 question was always "Fans want to see a KOTOR sequel. Is SWTOR going to be KOTOR3 with multiplayer options?" And the answer was always "yes, we are designing this game as an MMO in order to be able to tell stories in the Old Republic Universe for a long time". There was even something said along the lines of "There isn't just a vision of what would have been KOTOR 3. We hope to be able to use the MMO platform to let players experience and share enough stories for KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and maybe even 6". I can guarantee you there were more fans who wanted the KOTOR player experience vs. the MMO-kitchen sink crowd when the game was undergoing development in 2008. Remember, this was when the whole co-op mode multiplayer games were getting huge: L4D, Borderlands, Gears of War on XBox etc. When more promos came about expansive maps and such, it also felt like BW purposefully distanced themselves from WoW-like language. They wanted more of a generic large-scale teambased/co-op feel to what eventually became operations and WZs instead of trying to make them look like WoW raids or pvp matches. When WoW being used as the prototype for "generic MMO" features began to influence design and mechanic decisions, half the game was already lost...

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The sad thing about TOR is, if the developers had even bothered reading their own forums. There was a early outpouring from the fan base (many who still post here today) on what game they wanted. A few people asked for outrageous things like perm death and courpse looting (and other ideas that will never fly in MMORPGs)

Only because LucasArts and EA wouldn't think they could make money on mechanics like those as they were expecting millions of subs to compensate for the $200mil development price tag. But Eve Online has been running with permadeath, corpse looting, and item destruction since 2003, so that completely blows away any argument that they were outrageous requests or would never fly.

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