However, SGR was added. And it seems it's unequal in OGR anyways, with less Female > Male flirt options. :/

Yes, it is. And that's another thing that needs fixing.

o.O If they had introduced Cartel Market Companions only, I could see it, but wasn't this more Pay 2 PLay Expansion?

i would agree if they had added some of the flirts to the 2.0 content. however they added it to makeb only so that made it so that you can do ogra from 1-50 for free but to do any sgra you have to pay 10-20 $ depending on what game option you have.

but that's just the way i look at it. other people will see it however they want.

Edit: it could also have something to do with becoming jaded from all the lies, misinformation, and changes of direction that have come from BW over the last 4 years.....

i quit for a while (was here from the first request threads in the beta forums) but came back to check things out. although i haven't tried the new flirts out mainly out of protest of the whole "pay for gay" thing.

That's an interesting argument. I'd been thinking about having new companions instead of converting the old companions to bisexuality because that seemed like a narrative stretch, and because it would be potentially difficult to convince shareholders to add that unless they already have the voice recording from the actors. But it is probably unfair to make people pay to unlock that option too.

I'll need to rethink this, try to come up with some workable proposals.

i would agree if they had added some of the flirts to the 2.0 content. however they added it to makeb only so that made it so that you can do ogra from 1-50 for free but to do any sgra you have to pay 10-20 $ depending on what game option you have.

 

but that's just the way i look at it. other people will see it however they want.

 

Edit: it could also have something to do with becoming jaded from all the lies, misinformation, and changes of direction that have come from BW over the last 4 years.....

Eh, F2P hopefully make the game money, and so charging them for extras is a good thing. They make no money if they just play for free. So really, F2Pers really should be happy with whatever they do give them, as they're playing for free.

But for your point, they could always just add in one new side quest on Rep and Imp side, or just one side really, give the player the option to flirt with the quest giver either as hero/bi/same gender flirt.

If they were willing to put work into old content that is. I don't get the feeling they're willing to really put effort into changing old content though. Likely thought of as a waste of money.

Maybe go back and put in more than 3 chat options for some quests. Seriously, for my Smuggler, I would've actually prefered the funny male "I'm Chiss >_>;;" chat option, over the flirt option, just because it was way better

Maybe go back and put in more than 3 chat options for some quests. Seriously, for my Smuggler, I would've actually prefered the funny male "I'm Chiss >_>;;" chat option, over the flirt option, just because it was way better

I like this. Signed.

Fabiyun, MusedMoose, Natashina, Uluain and many more quit SWTOR during the extremely long (near on a year) period of no or misinformation Bioware was providing us.

I'm .... underwhelmed.

Well, there are literally no male/male [Flirt]s on the Republic side because... gays are evil, according to Bioware: Austin?

I have no idea. But they decided that SGR should be separated by faction, except lesbians. So, actually, the only people who get the short end of the stick are the people with gay male characters playing the Republic.

Well, there are literally no male/male [Flirt]s on the Republic side because... gays are evil, according to Bioware: Austin?

 

I have no idea. But they decided that SGR should be separated by faction, except lesbians. So, actually, the only people who get the short end of the stick are the people with gay male characters playing the Republic.

Um, no I have a lesbian Sith Marauder. So, she's getitng the short end of the stick too. Or else, I've been informed wrong... are you telling me that there IS a lesbian on Empire side Makeb that my marauder can flirt with?

Um, no I have a lesbian Sith Marauder. So, she's getitng the short end of the stick too. Or else, I've been informed wrong... are you telling me that there IS a lesbian on Empire side Makeb that my marauder can flirt with?

it's only two flirts, and they don't lead into any romances. one on the dreadseed quests, another on the macrobinocular quests.

Um, no I have a lesbian Sith Marauder. So, she's getitng the short end of the stick too. Or else, I've been informed wrong... are you telling me that there IS a lesbian on Empire side Makeb that my marauder can flirt with?

Sorry, those are [Flirt] options, not full-ish romance options. That said, as far as I'm aware, Lord Cytharat is the only option in the galaxy for gay male characters.

I use SGR to mean [Flirt] and the very-mini-romances, whereas SGRA is fully scripted and companion romances. Sorry for the confusion.

Also, all the women who can be [Flirt]ed with by female characters are bisexual [Flirt] options.

Sorry, those are [Flirt] options, not full-ish romance options. That said, as far as I'm aware, Lord Cytharat is the only option in the galaxy for gay male characters.

 

I use SGR to mean [Flirt] and the very-mini-romances, whereas SGRA is fully scripted and companion romances. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Also, all the women who can be [Flirt]ed with by female characters are bisexual [Flirt] options.

Which has been repeated many times in this thread, so I'm a bit surprised by the quoted poster.

Also, all the women who can be [Flirt]ed with by female characters are bisexual [Flirt] options.

Is it wrong that this, more than anything else about this whole situation, is the thing that bothers me the most right now?

(Sorry gay guys, you generally get a better deal in the media - though maybe not in this case, since you're limited to Empire only - but you actually got a homosexual guy in SWTOR!!)

(Bisexuals are bisexuals and they definitely deserve to be represented too, it's just that it always seems to be female characters... like all women should be available to all men at all times in all ways... which is definitely the story in this game, at least as far as companions are concerned (LS Jaesa is an exception that proves the rule, SCORPIO is a droid.))

Is it wrong that this, more than anything else about this whole situation, is the thing that bothers me the most right now?

 

(Sorry gay guys, you generally get a better deal in the media - though maybe not in this case, since you're limited to Empire only - but you actually got a homosexual guy in SWTOR!!)

 

(Bisexuals are bisexuals and they definitely deserve to be represented too, it's just that it always seems to be female characters... like all women should be available to all men at all times in all ways... which is definitely the story in this game, at least as far as companions are concerned (LS Jaesa is an exception that proves the rule, SCORPIO is a droid.))

When the majority of their audience is straight males, what do you expect? Look at the complaining that goes on now? Now imagine it 10times as much, when players can't flirt with a character.

When a female>female flirt option happens, I expect to see lots of complaints.

Though, as far as media goes, this might be a step in the right direction. Bisexuals in media often get screwed over. "What? They can't make up their mind?" (which is also a typical community line) reminds me of the line I used to hear all the time "All bi's are tweakers." :/

When it comes to such things, there's always a media worry. Ever notice all Doms are females in shows that dare to show them?

When the majority of their audience is straight males, what do you expect? Look at the complaining that goes on now? Now imagine it 10times as much, when players can't flirt with a character.

The composition of their target audience doesn't make it okay for them to neglect this, though. Zandilar's right, they're neglecting to put in a lesbian character. 'Oh, but the guys who won't get to flirt with her will have their feelings hurt' is a poor reason when, even if they did put a lesbian in, 99% of the game remains guy-accessible.

When a female>female flirt option happens, I expect to see lots of complaints.

Maybe. But as evidenced by Bioware: Edmonton (and more specifically David Gaider), a game company doesn't have to bend to that kind of selfish pressure.

Though, as far as media goes, this might be a step in the right direction. Bisexuals in media often get screwed over. "What? They can't make up their mind?" (which is also a typical community line) reminds me of the line I used to hear all the time "All bi's are tweakers." :/

I don't know what a tweaker is and I have a feeling that, as a bisexual, I don't want to know. But what you're talking about is called bisexual erasure and yeah, it's a huge issue. Not just in media. I've had people tell me point blank that bisexuals simply aren't real. Actually I've heard it more from the LG community than the straight community. Not the BT community, obviously (bisexuals don't usually deny our own existence and transgendered people seem far more open to the idea than many others).

Having said that, though, female bisexuality is heavily splashed about in games. SWTOR is in an excellent position to avoid falling into that trap but only if they commit to adding in more character types despite the flak they might get.

When it comes to such things, there's always a media worry. Ever notice all Doms are females in shows that dare to show them?

I've noticed that trend but I can't say I've seen enough TV or movies to state ratios on the matter. Still, it's a shame.

Well, there are literally no male/male [Flirt]s on the Republic side because... gays are evil, according to Bioware: Austin?

I have no idea. But they decided that SGR should be separated by faction, except lesbians. So, actually, the only people who get the short end of the stick are the people with gay male characters playing the Republic.

I thought that while Imps have the male x male romance option, Reps at least get flirts? AmIWrong?

Really ridiculous situation. Bioware: Austin really needs an intervention team which looks over their processes before they publish stuff ......

Is it wrong that this, more than anything else about this whole situation, is the thing that bothers me the most right now?

Nah, I totally agree with you on that one.

I still like the idea of 'herosexuality' where everyone is available to the PC regardless of gender but I don't much like it when it's only applied to straight male PCs while others (i.e., gay male PCs, straight female PCs, lesbian PCs) have limitations due to gender.

Is it wrong that this, more than anything else about this whole situation, is the thing that bothers me the most right now?

Absolutely not, you're entirely justified in feeling concerned and/or bothered by Bioware's not-actually-lesbian-lesbians. As you said, it reinforces the idea that women are there for the consumption of (straight) men, something this game has taken to absurd extremes.

Lesbians? Oh, we'll make them bi so the straight male gamer doesn't get his fee-fees hurt.

Female companion? She has to have a relationship with the male character, otherwise she might as well not be a woman.

Oh, the lady is married? Babies are a *must*. Remember, if babies aren't involved, you might as have made her a him!

This may sound hyperbolic, but it's the simplified version of what appears to be happening in-game and it's reflected even in the limited character body options and the (binary) gender-restricted armour.

I find it funny whenever I'm on Makeb and someone is like, "anyone know why my character keeps trying to flirt with this male npc?" As if they think the game is actually malfunctioning.

Answer: Because you keep hitting the [Flirt] button. Idiot.

Really, those people It's almost as if the realisation that there are people playing the game who aren't (white) straight, cis-males somehow devalues their game experience and actual identity.

Oh no, I saw someone drinking coffee instead of tea and now I don't know what to believe anymore!

I find it funny whenever I'm on Makeb and someone is like, "anyone know why my character keeps trying to flirt with this male npc?" As if they think the game is actually malfunctioning.

Why there aren't more people like that in Red Eclipse? It would cheer up my day so much to see these! xD

Instead, every time my character steps her foot on the Volcanic Mesa, someone starts to insult Quinn in the general chat. Seriously. Happened to both of my imperial characters.

I'm cursed.

Surely that's the perfect time to add to your ignore list? Personally, I don't care how good at the game you are, if you're racist, homophobic or misogynist, I don't want to play with you.

But reporting people in this game can be such a fart sometimes. Right-click, Report for Spam? Needs more options plz.

The composition of their target audience doesn't make it okay for them to neglect this, though. Zandilar's right, they're neglecting to put in a lesbian character. 'Oh, but the guys who won't get to flirt with her will have their feelings hurt' is a poor reason when, even if they did put a lesbian in, 99% of the game remains guy-accessible.

I'll have to disagree on that a bit. Doing whatever they want for whatever reason they want/see makes it perfectly okay. It's their game, we pay (or don't) to play in it. They get to decide how much of a headache they want to put up with.

Seeing as how they get complaints no matter what anyways, they might as well do put it though. Seriously, people complain about the littlest most insignificant thing.

Maybe. But as evidenced by Bioware: Edmonton (and more specifically David Gaider), a game company doesn't have to bend to that kind of selfish pressure.

I agree. But that goes back to what I said above. This means they don't have to put in a lesbian character if /they/ don't want to.

I don't know what a tweaker is and I have a feeling that, as a bisexual, I don't want to know. But what you're talking about is called bisexual erasure and yeah, it's a huge issue. Not just in media. I've had people tell me point blank that bisexuals simply aren't real. Actually I've heard it more from the LG community than the straight community. Not the BT community, obviously (bisexuals don't usually deny our own existence and transgendered people seem far more open to the idea than many others).

Might have been a 90's or Southern Cali thing. And I know what it's called.

Having said that, though, female bisexuality is heavily splashed about in games. SWTOR is in an excellent position to avoid falling into that trap but only if they commit to adding in more character types despite the flak they might get.

 

I've noticed that trend but I can't say I've seen enough TV or movies to state ratios on the matter. Still, it's a shame.

One of the reason's I've been swayed towards the arguement of herosexual in game. Just seems it would end complaints. I still think it makes for not as good storytelling, but I don't think a majority of people would notice/care, while giving everyone what they want.

Yeah, I don't know. Some general chat disuccion about Lord Cytharat is a guarantee every day on The Harbinger. During the first couple of weeks, it was a guaranteed discussion every 5 minutes. Fortunately, most of the time there were more people supporting it, though there's always some homophobic ramblings as well.

Can always turn off general chat. It's one of the first things I do with a new character.