Hey fellow healers.

 

I come here with a small problem i have.

Our guilds main healers are a full campaign Operative and Sorc.

For long time now my alt (merc healer) has been the only back up we had.

Its fully geared in campaign/black hole and i do mean everything.

 

But the problem now is we do TFB HM and...if we don't have a sorc, all AoE healing has to come from me (since people say Operatives AoE heal sucks)

First boss and kephess arn't a problem, havn't done the color/puzzle or last boss on healer yet. (like i said i'm an alt healer)

 

Most problem seems to come from the second encounter with the dread guards.

With an operative healer with me it always takes a few wipes simply because we cant keep up with the healing.

I am capable, not the best of all but i have healer every Ops so far on HM with variation of co healers, either class or person playing it.

So i have not been carried in the past sort to speak.

 

With the dread guards being a trio, we have 2 tanks to heal and dps who take dmg from the third.

do-able untill the lighting cast starts, raid takes 1k dmg ticks and gets a 5-7k blow to the face to finish.

We only allow the cast to happen once because healers can't keep up if a second cast starts and people get 1k ticks again.

usually i'm able to recover from this (meaning ppl get healed and my heat management is ok)

Second boss however seems to hit like a truck on the tanks and dps are getting healed quite slow due to lack of good HoT/AoE.

If we get past the second boss we are usually safe on terms of healing, but the period on the second boss seems to be the hardest due to people either being on low HP and healers being low/high on resource.

 

Like i said tho, we seem to lack a sorc AoE on that part and my merc AoE heal cant keep up.

I use a rakata stim/adrenal/medpack and time my vent heat ability to be at a good time.

I use CGS almost everytime i have 30 stacks, not sure what i can do more.

 

Any advice?

It could be any number of things but to be honest, if done properly, dreadguards is an easy fight and tanks shouldn't be taking all that much damage.

 

Look through your combat logs for the following answers to these questions;

 

1) Did Kel'sara/Heirad receive Blood Vengeance

2) Did your tanks ever receive 6+ stacks of the debuff

 

I

I don't particulary have time to go through combat logs

I know tanks switch on time when it comes to stacks.

My main is a DPS tho so i'm not all familiar with all the debuffs that affect tanks, what is blood vengance?

I've been dying to try these fights out on my healer alt (commando) as well. The only thing I could possible think of (assuming you know your class well ) is when the phase starts, pop CGS and kolto missle (for the dmg reduction buff) on the biggest clump of people, pop your shield and spam heals. I spec for the uninterruptable shield so I have no knockback on my casts. Vent heat and your set. This should help you recover faster to focus on heals on the tanks for phase 2. Edited November 9, 2012 by OMGitsCHARLIE

I disagree about the operative/scoundrel AoE heal sucking...it certainly doesn't suck any worse than commando/merc AoE. It is targeted to a player, instead of ground targeted, and is an HoT that the target and nearby players take with them, rather than being an instant. They have probably gotten the idea that it sucks only by comparison with the sage/sorc AoE, which is just completely OP. Bottom line is relying on you for all AoE healing is just stupid...your operative needs to suck it up and find their AoE button as well.

 

Unfortunately I still found the dread guard to be ridiculously hard fight on my commando healer...it basically feels like one wrong move, one missed heal, or one mistake pushing my ammo too low, would result in a wipe. Like you, I'm a backup healer, but my guild's main healer swapped out their commando main for their scoundrel alt as a result of that fight...the main raid group now consists of 2 scoundrel healers.

 

I'd love to hear of a raid clearing the dread guard on hard mode with two commando/merc healers, or even see a parse of it, cause I'm just not sure it's possible.

I disagree about the operative/scoundrel AoE heal sucking...it certainly doesn't suck any worse than commando/merc AoE. It is targeted to a player, instead of ground targeted, and is an HoT that the target and nearby players take with them, rather than being an instant. They have probably gotten the idea that it sucks only by comparison with the sage/sorc AoE, which is just completely OP. Bottom line is relying on you for all AoE healing is just stupid...your operative needs to suck it up and find their AoE button as well.

 

Unfortunately I still found the dread guard to be ridiculously hard fight on my commando healer...it basically feels like one wrong move, one missed heal, or one mistake pushing my ammo too low, would result in a wipe. Like you, I'm a backup healer, but my guild's main healer swapped out their commando main for their scoundrel alt as a result of that fight...the main raid group now consists of 2 scoundrel healers.

 

I'd love to hear of a raid clearing the dread guard on hard mode with two commando/merc healers, or even see a parse of it, cause I'm just not sure it's possible.

 

Ironic because our guild wont risk it with 2 operative healers.

Next time we raid i'll make sure i have agreements with my co healer and the tanks in regarding to blood vengeance.

I'd love to hear of a raid clearing the dread guard on hard mode with two commando/merc healers, or even see a parse of it, cause I'm just not sure it's possible.

 

Not me or my guild but a video that I found:

 

My guild kill (with two scoundrel healers):

Edited November 9, 2012 by OMGitsCHARLIE

Ironic because our guild wont risk it with 2 operative healers.

Next time we raid i'll make sure i have agreements with my co healer and the tanks in regarding to blood vengeance.

 

Been doing it with a raid group with 2 OP healers since it been released. I have also done it with a op/sorc combo as well.

 

The key thing i have noticed is to avoid stacking completely in the center, less people that get hit by chain lightening the better. Another thing to make sure of is that people are using some sort of cool down to mitigate some of the damage from lightening storm, as well as med pack.

 

Damage in the 2nd and 3rd phase is very tamed if people are playing smartly, or it can be very devastating if people are playing like idiots. In the 2nd phase people need to be aware if they are going to drop a green circle and make sure not to put it in a place where others will be effected, tanks need to be aware where the green circles are as well and position the mob for melee dps will always have a safe spot to stand and to drop. 3rd phase requires range dps/heals to be spread out to make sure multiple dont get the dot, as well as a burst dps to be in position to kill the caster add (the one that casts mass affliction) at 75,50,25%.

 

2 Merc healers should be able to heal the encounter, but it will be dependent on the other members of the raid are playing smartly.

Not me or my guild but a video that I found:

 

Nice...But that looked really really hairy. I'd have to give mad props to those CMs for being so disciplined in their ammo management given where those health bars were at occasionally.

 

By comparison your guild's kill looked much more manageable. Watching the health bars, there really wasn't a point when I thought you were on the verge of wiping due to the healers running out of heals.

Yeah that video was our 2nd kill i think. We have had the whole op on farm for the past couple weeks now, one shotting the raid twice now. Definitely doable with two scoundrel/op healers. Commando medics are pretty good in this raid as the fights call for some heavy single target heals.

I don't particulary have time to go through combat logs

I know tanks switch on time when it comes to stacks.

My main is a DPS tho so i'm not all familiar with all the debuffs that affect tanks, what is blood vengance?

 

Blood Vengeance occurs when either Ke'sara or Ciphas takes damage. Blood Vengeance will occur on the following targets when they take damage

 

If Kel'sara takes enough damage, she will buff Ciphas with Blood Vengeance, significantly increasing the damage Ciphas does

If Ciphas takes enough damage, he will buff Heirad with Blood Vengeance, significantly increasing the damage Heirad does.

 

If your tanks know to switch at 5 stacks, the bosses main abilities shouldn't be too much of an issue so I have to assume your tanks or DPS are the cause of the increased damage via Blood Vengeance or you are undergeared for the fight.

 

Note- Saying you are campaign geared is one thing, but being itemized is entirely different.

Blood Vengeance occurs when either Ke'sara or Ciphas takes damage. Blood Vengeance will occur on the following targets when they take damage

 

If Kel'sara takes enough damage, she will buff Ciphas with Blood Vengeance, significantly increasing the damage Ciphas does

If Ciphas takes enough damage, he will buff Heirad with Blood Vengeance, significantly increasing the damage Heirad does.

 

If your tanks know to switch at 5 stacks, the bosses main abilities shouldn't be too much of an issue so I have to assume your tanks or DPS are the cause of the increased damage via Blood Vengeance or you are undergeared for the fight.

 

Note- Saying you are campaign geared is one thing, but being itemized is entirely different.

 

2300 aim, 700 bonus healing, 45% crit and 71 surge

700 bonus healing is too low. You should be around 750 if you're fully campaign/black hole. You may need to swap out some crit for power. My BH/Campaign merc is around 2300 aim, 760 bonus healing, 75% surge and 38% crit.

 

If you're having lots of raid wide damage in the 2nd phase, tell the DPS to stop standing in green puddles.

 

If you're having lots of raid wide damage in the 3rd phase. tell the DPS to take down the adds faster. There is one who cast raid-wide affliction if he's not killed fast enough.

2300 aim, 700 bonus healing, 45% crit and 71 surge

 

You have WAY too much crit and not enough power/surge. I understand that this is your alt so take that with a grain of salt. The question still stands though: Is the raid taking unnessecary damage?

2300 aim, 700 bonus healing, 45% crit and 71 surge

 

Tell us your crit rating not your crit percent

 

Though judging by your aim I would hazard a guess it is too high, swap some crit for power (aim around 350 crit rating) )and get some surge/power enhancements (no the ones with 40ish endurance.)

Edited November 14, 2012 by CaptainApop

I have done this fight in every composition except doubling up:

 

Sage-Commando

Sage-Scoundrel

Scoundrel-Commando

 

It is a difficult fight to heal but there are ways of making it easier on top of what has already been said in the thread.

 

1. Have all DPS, including ranged stack up on Heirad, and just use AoE to heal them (as there is only 4 of them it will) and focus on tanks. Sure the DPS will take Surging Chain but that does low damage. I have found that it is always the ranged DPS standing far from the group that I have to give special heals to.

2. Agree where everyone will stand for the lightning to prevent taking too much damage, have them stack back on Heirad as soon as it is over.

3. DPS Heirad down before he does the second lightning, if your DPS cannot do this they are not ready for HM TFB.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus

well it was not on HM, but I solo healed the dread guard on my operative when the other healer disconnected. So I'd say we are completely viable doing it (of course I was a bit overgeared, but meh). And for some movement heavy fights I'd say the operative aoe is better than the sorc one. I use it every time I can put it on at least 3 people.

This is definitely an intense fight for a group that tries to carry 1 or 2 players (either for gear or for personal skill-level reasons). Healing is obviously made more dfiifcult when you are trying to heal players who are not up to the requisite level for this encounter. So, it's important to realise that the problems you're facing might not just be down to your own set-up, rotation or ability.

 

Definitely the first couple of times my guild encountered this boss fight, we struggled -- which is only to be expected for such a fight with a few new boss mechanics to figure out. But with practice and increased familiarity for all the raid members, it gets a bit more manageable every time you run it. Absolutely, the Chain Lightning attacks need to be spotted, and people move as far away from each other as much as possible. Also, the only other kicker which immediately springs to mind (which is almost a perfect piece of trolling on Bioware's part) is the phase when the tanks become debuffed so that any healing you do to them is converted to damage. Sorry, I have no idea what those debuffs are, but if I remember rightly, it's only in the final phase that it happens.

 

Finally just to echo the other posters above, I think you've stacked way too much Crit in your stats set-up, and need to redistribute with more of an emphasis on Power. I think we all should by now have realised that the stat bonuses from any one complete gear set are not always the most optimised stats set-up.

 

PS. My guild now only runs with Operative/Merc healing, since that's all we've got left! And we seem to manage just fine without a Sorceror's AOE puddle.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Cody-licious

Dear fellow mercs, please remember your healing surge gets an extra 15%. Therefore crit is more valuable than you think and tech crit needs to be over 40% with buffs. I don't have a hard rating number for you unfortunately.

Dear fellow mercs, please remember your healing surge gets an extra 15%. Therefore crit is more valuable than you think and tech crit needs to be over 40% with buffs. I don't have a hard rating number for you unfortunately.

 

This is true. In fact, playing with the numbers, if I assume 2300 aim and just enough power to get 700 bonus healing, the ideal crit chance ends up around 45%. (where "ideal" is optimizing for maximum sustainable output) That requires a crit rating of around 350. With that said, a crit rating of 350 is too high (if you can help it), since Aim is a substantially better stat (by almost 17%) than crit at that gear level.

 

The other thing to keep in mind here is the fact that crit is uncontrollable, and therefore prone to induce overheal. Healing is not like DPS, where more damage is always better. Thus, there is an argument to be made that you should actually under-stat crit as a healer and put those points into power or main stat. This is hard to do though, since neither main stat nor power directly compete with crit. So…yeah.

 

I'd say that for a Campaign/Dread Guard geared merc healer, you probably want about 40% crit chance. 45% is mathematically better, but almost certainly situationally worse.

I can't say I have had the same problem but have had similar issues. I am a sage healer and my raid groups other healer is a scoundrel. Together we have never wiped after the first night learning the fight. On the off night that either one of us can't show up the alt in the guild is a commando. And we seem fine together on some of the other fights but not this one. Now I am sure he is not as optimized as I would like him and it is not his main but he really struggles with this fight. Now he is open to suggestions and always asks for advice but I have no commando and don't know what to tell him to help him. Anybody here have any suggestions?

Greetings fellow commando healers!!

 

After being a fan of commando heals for a while and wanting to prove to the community that commando heals are just as viable as the rest of the healers out there, I had my first opportunity over the weekend to run with fellow commando healer through TFB HM.

 

I am proud to report that we walked through the whole op and only died twice on Operator IX. 1 timed the rest of the fights and obviously The Terror with the current bug. I was geared in what i consider BIS 61's with 2 x 63 armorings (waist & wrist) and a 63 hilt. My commando partner had a few more 63's then me, probably 50/50 from what i could tell after a quick check of his gear.

 

Previously to this, I have run with Sages and Smuggs. From what i can tell and see, all healers are viable, but knowledge of said class is a must. So if you are competent in healing with your character and still wiping, then I would strongly suggest making sure your raid group is not taking unnecessary damage. I do not believe that any one class or combination can not make it through this op (or any endgame content for that matter) if they are geared correctly and have a strong understanding of the class. I am a firm believer that BW have balanced the healers a lot more then what people whine about in forums.

 

So before you doubt yourself or your class, check on what the rest of the group are doing. Plenty of good ideas already mentioned. Obviously the group i was running with had a firm understanding of boss mechanics.

 

p.s. It was a beautiful site watching our green beams of love healing FTW!!

p.p.s. Can't remember my aim, but my crit rating is 290 (42%) and surge at 300 (75%), with all buffs and stims.

Hey fellow healers.

 

I come here with a small problem i have.

Our guilds main healers are a full campaign Operative and Sorc.

For long time now my alt (merc healer) has been the only back up we had.

Its fully geared in campaign/black hole and i do mean everything.

 

But the problem now is we do TFB HM and...if we don't have a sorc, all AoE healing has to come from me (since people say Operatives AoE heal sucks)

First boss and kephess arn't a problem, havn't done the color/puzzle or last boss on healer yet. (like i said i'm an alt healer)

 

Most problem seems to come from the second encounter with the dread guards.

With an operative healer with me it always takes a few wipes simply because we cant keep up with the healing.

I am capable, not the best of all but i have healer every Ops so far on HM with variation of co healers, either class or person playing it.

So i have not been carried in the past sort to speak.

 

With the dread guards being a trio, we have 2 tanks to heal and dps who take dmg from the third.

do-able untill the lighting cast starts, raid takes 1k dmg ticks and gets a 5-7k blow to the face to finish.

We only allow the cast to happen once because healers can't keep up if a second cast starts and people get 1k ticks again.

usually i'm able to recover from this (meaning ppl get healed and my heat management is ok)

Second boss however seems to hit like a truck on the tanks and dps are getting healed quite slow due to lack of good HoT/AoE.

If we get past the second boss we are usually safe on terms of healing, but the period on the second boss seems to be the hardest due to people either being on low HP and healers being low/high on resource.

 

Like i said tho, we seem to lack a sorc AoE on that part and my merc AoE heal cant keep up.

I use a rakata stim/adrenal/medpack and time my vent heat ability to be at a good time.

I use CGS almost everytime i have 30 stacks, not sure what i can do more.

 

Any advice?

I am going to be completely frank with you. The game isn't built that any one healer will be better than the other in any fight. Whether you take two mercs or operatives the healing output of all the classes amounts to the same. What bothers players is how the players are healed. A sorc is a healer focused on AOE's so everyone can see when they are healed by the AOE so they automatically assume he is the better healer.

 

It sounds to me your guild lacks skill which is why they feel comfortable with a particular class or group. Only a noob will argue that one class is better than another. What that noob is actually saying is I play this class better than all others.

 

It might not even be your fault that your team takes on a lot of damage. How good is the tank at mitigating crowed control? A lot of tank these days won't even use all their taunts relying on dps and stance to CC. Which I am sorry doesn't work as well as people think it does.

 

If you want to own it like a boss in healing TFB. It's simple. Communicate with your other healer which group you will keep up. This will prevent wasteful cross healing and over healing which wastes ammo.

 

Use your AOE whenever it is off cool down. It's purpose is not to give everyone topped up, it's purpose is to allow you to give your focus heals a more crit burst. Mercs/commandos is all about burst healing.

 

It should take you two plus hammer shot heals top a teammate from 0 to 100 if you are fully decked out.

 

When the team takes on simultaneous damage. mitigate the group damage while focus healing the weakest player first. The healthbars will vary more so than any other healer which gives off the illusion you are not doing your job, but thats ok. Your skill as a healer is to determine who will need the heals first and mitigate your heals based on that.

 

Think of your class as a tank and your heals Group control instead of CC.

 

You heal by mitigating the damage the team suffers and focus healing the most dire.

 

It takes more skill to master a merc healer but once you have it, you have it.

Greetings fellow commando healers!!

 

After being a fan of commando heals for a while and wanting to prove to the community that commando heals are just as viable as the rest of the healers out there, I had my first opportunity over the weekend to run with fellow commando healer through TFB HM.

 

I am proud to report that we walked through the whole op and only died twice on Operator IX. 1 timed the rest of the fights and obviously The Terror with the current bug. I was geared in what i consider BIS 61's with 2 x 63 armorings (waist & wrist) and a 63 hilt. My commando partner had a few more 63's then me, probably 50/50 from what i could tell after a quick check of his gear.

 

Previously to this, I have run with Sages and Smuggs. From what i can tell and see, all healers are viable, but knowledge of said class is a must. So if you are competent in healing with your character and still wiping, then I would strongly suggest making sure your raid group is not taking unnecessary damage. I do not believe that any one class or combination can not make it through this op (or any endgame content for that matter) if they are geared correctly and have a strong understanding of the class. I am a firm believer that BW have balanced the healers a lot more then what people whine about in forums.

 

So before you doubt yourself or your class, check on what the rest of the group are doing. Plenty of good ideas already mentioned. Obviously the group i was running with had a firm understanding of boss mechanics.

 

p.s. It was a beautiful site watching our green beams of love healing FTW!!

p.p.s. Can't remember my aim, but my crit rating is 290 (42%) and surge at 300 (75%), with all buffs and stims.

 

Well said. You are not a noob!

Greetings fellow commando healers!!

 

After being a fan of commando heals for a while and wanting to prove to the community that commando heals are just as viable as the rest of the healers out there, I had my first opportunity over the weekend to run with fellow commando healer through TFB HM.

 

I am proud to report that we walked through the whole op and only died twice on Operator IX. 1 timed the rest of the fights and obviously The Terror with the current bug. I was geared in what i consider BIS 61's with 2 x 63 armorings (waist & wrist) and a 63 hilt. My commando partner had a few more 63's then me, probably 50/50 from what i could tell after a quick check of his gear.

 

Previously to this, I have run with Sages and Smuggs. From what i can tell and see, all healers are viable, but knowledge of said class is a must. So if you are competent in healing with your character and still wiping, then I would strongly suggest making sure your raid group is not taking unnecessary damage. I do not believe that any one class or combination can not make it through this op (or any endgame content for that matter) if they are geared correctly and have a strong understanding of the class. I am a firm believer that BW have balanced the healers a lot more then what people whine about in forums.

 

So before you doubt yourself or your class, check on what the rest of the group are doing. Plenty of good ideas already mentioned. Obviously the group i was running with had a firm understanding of boss mechanics.

 

p.s. It was a beautiful site watching our green beams of love healing FTW!!

p.p.s. Can't remember my aim, but my crit rating is 290 (42%) and surge at 300 (75%), with all buffs and stims.

 

Well said. You are not a noob!