I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it like it is. F2P players wont bother with wzs after playing a few. Theyre playing for the story, not to be frustrated.

 

Such broad generalizations. Some f2p players will enjoy them, some wont. Just like the current population. f2p players wont deal with the gear gap at all until they hit 50, and by that time im sure they will have chosen to sub or not.

I believe it's the time BW considered implementing Arenas. RWZ format, with the current amount of motivation required to put together and coordinate a team of such size, doesn't cut it. Smaller format, such as 2v2\3v3, would be much more alive with the current system.

 

Not saying Arenas should be WoW-model team deathmatch. They could be objectives-based, simpler than Warzones - to accommodate to the smaller format.

 

I also think that top players should be rewarded with something tangible - no, not gear that makes the rich richer and the powerful more powerful. I'm talking about Cartel coins, sufficient to maintain full access to PvP content.

II also think that top players should be rewarded with something tangible - no, not gear that makes the rich richer and the powerful more powerful. I'm talking about Cartel coins, sufficient to maintain full access to PvP content.

 

That is an amazing idea, someone knockout the stiffs from EA and make this happen.

All i have to say on this is WOW! First I am not a RWZ person unless it is inhouse with my guild but ANY good coordinated team is going to coordinate their stuns and focus targets one at a time. If you complain about that then you just need to quit pvp. As far as a gear differntial I have screenshots of myself on a recruit character out damaging and out surviving playing in BIS WH. Gear makes a diff but it is not the only thing that matters. Only thing I see constructive out of this post is I too agree that grenades are junk for wz and should not be allowed. In closing stop complaining about the stuns and mezzes and learn how to use your own and to coordinate your team to where you can beat them. happy hunting guys

I'm not going to get involved in the argument, but for a post that is complaining about the gear gap, the only thing you mentioned are grenades and team coordination, both of which you can acquire with a little bit of credits and a little bit of practice.

 

Now, now, no need to bring the truth in here...

Yeah OP you are correct 100% . This is why ranked is dead and a complete failure.

This is why i only look up a good dual now and then in blackhole etc.

Pretty sure we will never get seasong 1 for these reasons, and as we all know the pvp team they have are as clueless as the day is long.So sad how they messed up pvp and ranked.

 

Funny thing is we been telling the devs for a long time now but even now they refuse to take feedback.

 

Gear gap is way to huge.

TTK to low

Resolve is a joke.

Stunnlock hell.

Expertise is a fail beyond !

 

In the beginning of pre S1 everybody wanted to try ranked, pugs, guilds etc, now on my server nobody ask anymore in chat. Why ? because only a few guilds play ranked if at all.Because ranked funny enough is not fair.

There is no entry for new players.And because of this very few guilds care or want to start up ranked.

And bioware fails 100% to understand these basic flaws.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

The real point I was trying to get across is not one of skill, any coordinated team will take out another yes and getting to that point within this game is not my issue. My point, is that last night highlighted just how out of control burst damage and CC is in this game.

 

First, the change to resolve to make it more forgiving for people accidentally overlapping stuns in pugs... People said it was going to be abused by coordinated teams... Oh look it is being abused by coordinated teams. And I'm not blaming the players, I'm blaming Bioware as they are the ones letting it happen.

 

Second, non-incapacitating CC's need a form of diminishing returns. Being able to lock melee characters in place for prolonged periods of time whilst waiting for their resolve to wear down so you can stun or mezz them again shouldn't be possible.

 

Third, burst damage is too high given the limited health pools currently. This one is self explanatory as you are either giving or receiving the damage so everyone should understand what is going on here.

 

Those three points break PvP at a competitive level. Yes you can learn how to beat people at their own game if that is currently the best course of action in order to succeed, but that doesn't make it the right course of action for the game or the people playing it. especially those on the receiving end. PvP in it's current state hurts the game at a competitive level, which is why so few people play it competitively. Not just because it's so hard to get into now, but because certain features, burst, CC, are flat out broken.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sweeet

Yeah OP you are correct 100% . This is why ranked is dead and a complete failure.

This is why i only look up a good dual now and then in blackhole etc.

Pretty sure we will never get seasong 1 for these reasons, and as we all know the pvp team they have are as clueless as the day is long.So sad how they messed up pvp and ranked.

 

Funny thing is we been telling the devs for a long time now but even now they refuse to take feedback.

 

Gear gap is way to huge.

TTK to low

Resolve is a joke.

Stunnlock hell.

Expertise is a fail beyond !

 

In the beginning of pre S1 everybody wanted to try ranked, pugs, guilds etc, now on my server nobody ask anymore in chat. Why ? because only a few guilds play ranked if at all.Because ranked funny enough is not fair.

There is no entry for new players.And because of this very few guilds care or want to start up ranked.

And bioware fails 100% to understand these basic flaws.

 

Exactly, Bioware are the ones letting it happen, and where is the acknowledgement? They either fail to see the flaws or couldn't care less, I don't know which is worse.

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it like it is. F2P players wont bother with wzs after playing a few. Theyre playing for the story, not to be frustrated.

 

Lowbie PvP isn't really frustrating, there's a lot less CC and it's quite unpredictable. The bolster system works fairly well, too.

Lowbie PvP isn't really frustrating, there's a lot less CC and it's quite unpredictable. The bolster system works fairly well, too.

 

My friend had 21k hp on his jugg ( withough the 10s hp boost) at level 49, but ok it's working well and there is no imbalance .

Those three points break PvP at a competitive level.

 

Not really. Your problem was that you weren't competitive.

 

You said you had decent gear (so it's interesting that "skill > gear" entirely here, but that's a different argument). Your problem was that your opposition played much better than you. You had access to all the same abilities, grenades, stuns and damage - they just used them better (by the way, you can cleanse cc from others as well as yourself). The contest was entirely fair. Coordination and intelligent use of abilites = good play.

 

The complaint amounts to "It's unbalanced that they were better than us."

 

Which may sound like mocking, but isn't wholly. It isn't fun to get so outclassed you're simply blown out of the water repeatedly. What would be better is matchmaking by team ranking (hell, you could even derive it from an average of individual ratings), so people meet others who can perform on a similar level (that level being determined by a mixture of gear, experience, class/map suitability, natural talent and teamwork).

 

The points in other posts about needing cross-server matchmaking to get enough numbers for ranked teams are probably correct, but I think a solo-ranking (aggregated to team average) could work for random wzs on single servers.

I think the problem here is the defintion of ranked warzones. I would say the top OP premades could be considered heavyweight class..what they are doing is fighting the 10 year old featherweight and then crowing how he should learn to box.

 

For the ranked padding your stats fighting newbies is just as lame as going afk and getting medals...no skill involved and we all know it. As many postings and comments in gen chat have shown these matches are no real competition.

 

I think in fact matchmaking for ranked truly needs to be based on the rank so guess what you want to group up or do a match, it will be with players and against players in the same ranking so these bullyfests stop.

 

As for the argument that the queues will be longer, yes for a time they will be...as the lower ranked players will then have a opportunity to get their ranks up as well and then eventually there will be more players able to compete at the hgiher ranks.

 

This could be so much better for the health of the game than just say 3 or 4 premade teams dominating the field and driving every other player away from ranked warzones.

 

Right now on my server, when I see calls for ranked warzone teams, all they ever call for is players willing..nay expecting to be on the losing team..and that shows me this has failed.

My friend had 21k hp on his jugg ( withough the 10s hp boost) at level 49, but ok it's working well and there is no imbalance .

 

That's an extreme case. 90%+ of players in lowbie PvP have no more than 13-14k HP. "Twinks running amok and ruining everything" is sensationalist hyperbolic rubbish, they're a rare breed actually.

Not really. Your problem was that you weren't competitive.

 

You said you had decent gear (so it's interesting that "skill > gear" entirely here, but that's a different argument). Your problem was that your opposition played much better than you. You had access to all the same abilities, grenades, stuns and damage - they just used them better (by the way, you can cleanse cc from others as well as yourself). The contest was entirely fair. Coordination and intelligent use of abilites = good play.

 

The complaint amounts to "It's unbalanced that they were better than us."

 

Which may sound like mocking, but isn't wholly. It isn't fun to get so outclassed you're simply blown out of the water repeatedly. What would be better is matchmaking by team ranking (hell, you could even derive it from an average of individual ratings), so people meet others who can perform on a similar level (that level being determined by a mixture of gear, experience, class/map suitability, natural talent and teamwork).

 

The points in other posts about needing cross-server matchmaking to get enough numbers for ranked teams are probably correct, but I think a solo-ranking (aggregated to team average) could work for random wzs on single servers.

 

My complaint doesn't amount to that at all. I'm not denying that they were better than us, they clearly were. My complaint, is that what I witnessed should not even be possible in a competitive PvP environment.

 

I hate to use parallels to WoW, but even Blizzard realised the importance of placing diminishing returns on the same category of roots. They even realised that when you raise burst, you need to raise health pools to compensate. So far we have no diminishing returns on roots at all, and health has not been raised to compensate the damage possible when equipping BiS. Add to that the change to resolve allowing stun locking through timing stuns, and yes it breaks competitive PvP entirely.

 

I don't deny that a match making system is sorely needed, but a matchmaking system will not fix the glaring issues inherent to PvP currently, it will only hide them from lesser geared/skilled players and that is not a permanent solution to bad PvP mechanics.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sweeet

Any game where gear or your choice of trade!!!! skill has an impact on pvp is hardly skill based.

You have to invest time to get the stuff you need to be "good".

Some players might be a hundred times better then these "pro" teams but they'll never get to prove it cause they can't invest the time in grinding all the gear. And no gear = no wins cause the matchmaking system is none existent.

Ow, and anyone believing that using voice comms to keep cc on a target is "skill" is sort of ignorant. Unless you're a mute, it's really not that hard :/

 

tl;dr: want a skill based game? Go look elsewhere...

The learning curve for ranked warzones is steep. Gernades are required. You need 8 players with a way to quickly communicate that work together and know what everyone else on their team is going to do. You need to have logged alot of time with your team to "mesh" well together. I wouldn't dream of going in without BiS fully augmented WH gear.

 

My suggestion is try to find a second team of similar skill level and queue sync to get your practice in with your guys. I wish their was practice area where you could actually practice with 8 guys instead of having to sink or swim.

 

On our server, we have a couple of really good teams and the rest are those trying to break in or PUG groups trying to grind gear. There is at most, 5 teams queuing on a good night. Usually its more like 2 or 3. I know it can be frustrating for them to play against one of the good teams but until their is more teams to play, it is the only thing that can happen.

I have over 1300 Expertise and these guys were cutting through me like butter and there was not a thing I could do about it, even with my uber defensive cooldowns.

 

This might be part of your problem.

 

The top sentinels/marauders I've seen usually have less than 1300 expertise as they sacrifice it for main stat through PVE mods.

 

Something to look into.

The issue here isn't that CC is overpowered, or grenades are overpowered or anything like that.

 

The issue is that the combination of lots of CC and very short time-to-kill leaves many players feeling helpless. No matter what the system the better players will always win, we all accept that, however if the loser feels helpless whilst losing (due to being stunned then focused) then they are unlikely to return.

 

Now, if TTK was much longer then at least the loser would have fun beating on people for a while and would get the sense that if they improved then they might stand a chance, but in the current system it doesn't matter what your gear is like or how good you are at co-ordinating because CC + FF kills you too quickly. Another symptom of having such low TTK is that PvP centres around cooldowns: someone with cooldowns available will usually beat the person without cooldowns. Again, that is removing control from the player and placing arbitrary limits upon them. Thats not fun. Thats not skillful. Its poor design.

This might be part of your problem.

 

The top sentinels/marauders I've seen usually have less than 1300 expertise as they sacrifice it for main stat through PVE mods.

 

Something to look into.

 

Yes I know that, I am not BiS yet, but I am slowly getting there. The point I was trying to prove was that even with over 1300 expertise and the damage reduction it provides, the damage I take from a BiS player is INSANE relative to my health pool. I will consistently get hit with over 5k-6k crits, consistently. I already die pretty damn fast, but if I was BiS I would die even faster due to having less expertise.

 

PvP has degraded into a DPS/CC arms race. Tactics involve locking a player out of combat for as long as possible and bursting people down in seconds. Seconds... Which is the real problem here, time. People spend too long sitting in CC's doing nothing and they die too quickly. It's an incredibly bad combination in a competitive PvP environment that is only fun for the team that manages to lock the other down first.

 

Why do you think so many people dislike PvP in it's current state? It's not through lack of skill that's for sure, many top players I've spoken to believe PvP is in a bad place right now.

Now, now, no need to bring the truth in here...

 

This you said you are prepared for learn to play comments well learn to play get voce comms practice grenades or come up with tactics that mitigate those.

 

They have simply out played you as a team What is wrong with that ? Skill > Gear and since it looks like gear was about equal you got creamed by skill.

The issue here isn't that CC is overpowered, or grenades are overpowered or anything like that.

 

The issue is that the combination of lots of CC and very short time-to-kill leaves many players feeling helpless. No matter what the system the better players will always win, we all accept that, however if the loser feels helpless whilst losing (due to being stunned then focused) then they are unlikely to return.

 

Now, if TTK was much longer then at least the loser would have fun beating on people for a while and would get the sense that if they improved then they might stand a chance, but in the current system it doesn't matter what your gear is like or how good you are at co-ordinating because CC + FF kills you too quickly. Another symptom of having such low TTK is that PvP centres around cooldowns: someone with cooldowns available will usually beat the person without cooldowns. Again, that is removing control from the player and placing arbitrary limits upon them. Thats not fun. Thats not skillful. Its poor design.

 

Yes exactly! CC isn't broken in its own right, only when combined with the insane burst causing a low TTK is when it all falls apart.

 

Competitive play is game of give and take, not take take take - which is exactly what SWTOR PvP has degraded into.

Lots of QQ in this thread by OP. Looks like it's a L2P issue. Learn to communicate, CC, stun, and you can take down BiS enemies in seconds too.

Biggest problem that SWTOR PvP has right now is that match making lacks AI completely (I've been in a lot of same faction games where the teams were very unbalanced). But to be honest that is a problem mainly for the PUGs in regular WZs since upon entering RWZ you should bring your best team, gear, tactics etc. You and your team just got trumped into the ground and because you feel you know a thing or two about PvP you reached the conclusion that PvP is broken (I've been there ). Sorry for you, but that's the way it is in reality, the other team beat you fair and square playing with the same rules that made you say that PvP is broken (unless they cheated/hacked but then you should report that). Devs already stated that if the rankings between the teams of a match are disproportionate that is going to reflect in overall loss or gain of rankings at the end of the match (a bone thrown to the under-dog to keep it in the fight ).

I do agree that a TTK a tad longer will only add to the game but .... . And also they should add brackets accounting for team rank level and the possibility to refuse matches with a team 2 brackets above your own team rank.

 

ProTip Most roots, slows and a good number of mezzes (soft stuns) can be cleansed. If it's your healer that is mezzed get the fight near him and hope a smash will wake him up .

Edited November 1, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

This you said you are prepared for learn to play comments well learn to play get voce comms practice grenades or come up with tactics that mitigate those.

 

They have simply out played you as a team What is wrong with that ? Skill > Gear and since it looks like gear was about equal you got creamed by skill.

 

So basically what you are saying is that we should all learn to become a part of the problem... That is exactly what you are saying you know.

 

Yes we were beaten by players skilfully using broken game mechanics, we know that already. And learning how to skilfully use the same broken game mechanics isn't the problem here, it is the fact that they are broken in the first place.

Lots of QQ in this thread by OP. Looks like it's a L2P issue. Learn to communicate, CC, stun, and you can take down BiS enemies in seconds too.

 

Yes because becoming a part of the problem will solve everything...