Reason of observed by some reduced TTK IS expertise, to be precise LACK of said stat on people dropping fast. Remodded BM gear - shorter TTK. Mix of PVP/PVE gear - shorter TTK. Old cent/champ - shorter TTK.

 

This is problem you see - lack of adjustment to new rules. In few weeks, when everyone and their mother will be in new BM/WH gear TTK will go back to old values.

 

Thing is, most thread in pvp forum are whine/QQ. Those perils of actual useful info are very difficult to find and most people seem to not care enough to search for them. Something is not working as it used to/user wants it to? Go to pvp forum to start qq/whine thread instead looking for reason why it is working now different than before and what should be done to taka advantage of it.

Junk. I'm in new Battlemaster.

Frankly, if the game stays like this I'll be gone, I already know which game will be getting my money from beta testing. Bioware just keep showing me that they will push something through and expect us to lump it.

I'm giving you a small window to either fix this or tell us what's happening and if its intended. I could be wrong but this stinks of Mythic. It's not even like I come out of this badly, our pre made still owns just even faster but I do not like the direction they have taken us given what they said.

NO! i said it already and i say it again: i was before 1.2 very close to the euquip limit for expertise and i am it now too. i have nearly 1100 expertise! i do not have my gear remodded. how can it be due to expertise that I DIE nearly twice as fast when my opponents do not have more expertise than me?

 

the decreased TKK has NOTHING to do with the expertise change. though, of course for those people that are low on expertise it greatly contributes to this observation but this reduced TKK is still greratly observable for people with high amount of expertise!

 

edit: to point that out: i AM IN FULL BM GEAR, the NEW BM GEAR!

That is weird then, because I am in mix of recruit and BM and I do not experience shorter TTK. Maybe you play healer and since they turned fo your half-god mode you die faster?

Or maybe since you were full BM before 1.2 and you had big advantage over many other players who did not (either little pvp gear or mostly cent). They have now bought few BM pieces and recruit gear and can kill you faster?

Just guessing...

blah blah blah ur statistics and fancy math don't prove anything. There is a statistic to prove a point for any argument. I will go off the eye test. The eye test tells me i magically lost 2k hp after 1.2. Now my attacks being a dps scoundrel got buffed, as did other classes that my friends play. And we are not talking 88 dmg difference. I'm talking about demolition round critting for over 5k now, whereas before it was critting for 3k at the most. Now my backblast does somewhere around 4k dmg when it crits, from about 2500 to 3k at the most before...btw that's not considering heals were nerfed....that's only 2 examples...it's a zerg fest let's call a spade a spade and stop being fan boys.

As a DPS Pyro, my crits have not grown one bit. The only difference is, that now you don't get that extra mitigation from expertise. Yes, we haven't considered the nerf to healing here, but that doesn't make it a zerg fest as you described as healers weren't gona outheal 3v1 pre 1.2 anyway.

I think overall you just need your teammates more which was intended for ranked warzones really (I think operative far outperforms the other two healers). Healers get the shortest straw queuing with pugs now.

Reason of observed by some reduced TTK IS expertise, to be precise LACK of said stat on people dropping fast. Remodded BM gear - shorter TTK. Mix of PVP/PVE gear - shorter TTK. Old cent/champ - shorter TTK.

 

This is problem you see - lack of adjustment to new rules. In few weeks, when everyone and their mother will be in new BM/WH gear TTK will go back to old values.

 

Thing is, most thread in pvp forum are whine/QQ. Those perils of actual useful info are very difficult to find and most people seem to not care enough to search for them. Something is not working as it used to/user wants it to? Go to pvp forum to start qq/whine thread instead looking for reason why it is working now different than before and what should be done to taka advantage of it.

This. Let people gear up and get on equal expertise before making hasty decisions.

/Thread closed

This. Let people gear up and get on equal expertise before making hasty decisions.

 

/Thread closed

I think people like you are kinda ignoring that we don't have cross servers and we're all pretty well aware of who we're fighting as well as many servers running constant cross faction games.

/Not even slightly closed.

I like the shorter TTK, it does not feel like such a "nerd" fight anymore. "That cannot hurt me because I have a magic shell, or that did not hit me because I have super speed and sprinted away before it hit, etc." In the movies lightsabers cut off arms, legs, doors, robots, etc. they should hit like Nerfbats. I cannot stand it when people do not die. With 3 healers on a side it is hard to focus fire anyone. Maybe try running with another healer or two instead of trying to solo heal the entire team like you used to. BW should have done it over the course of two patches instead of one to give people time to adjust to the changes.

In Wow during BC with my BM hunter could drop people in 3 to 4 seconds if they stood in the open (5k+ dps burst for 15 seconds when most players had 10k-15k of health). In Wrath my mainly PVE geared rogue could drop people just as fast. Bubbles, iceblocks, blessing of protection, etc. not included. If I was getting hit on my rogue I was doing something wrong.

In Rift my melee Sabo (70+% dmg increase sabo/sin/nightblade hybrid) was nerfed 3 weeks after launch since if I crit (30% to 40% depended on buffs) I could kill someone from full health to dead in 1 attack, but that only after spending 7.5 seconds throwing BRIGHT GLOWING balls at someone, THAT COULD BE CLEANSED, and doing almost NO damage for the 7.5 seconds. Even though that was a squishy PVE raid dps spec people still QQ'ed.

Guess what also can be cleansed? The bleed dots from an Anni speced Mara are one. Kills their dps and ability to heal. Rarely do I ever see people ever use CLEANSE though, they would rather instead try to heal through it, or come here and QQ. I had one person try to tell me they do not have time because they are so busy healing... I even use it on my dps classes that have it.

Why do MMO players stand in the open most of the time? Hard for a warrior to charge you if you see him running at you and you walk around a corner losing them. Hard for the range to shot you if you walk around a corner. Don't stand in the open. If you stood in the open in real life YOU WOULD NOT EVEN GET A CHANCE TO MOVE OR REACT, YOU WOULD BE DEAD BEFORE YOU EVEN HEARD A SOUND. Bullets travel faster then the speed of sound and so do lasers. No cool downs to save you, no heal to bring you back from the brink of death, no magic bubble, NO NOTHING.

TTK in this game is fine. Get rid of companions in world PvP and these stupid heroic moments, like PVE was not easy enough already. I wonder which role wanted to have companions so they could level faster while leveling as the spec they wanted to. Sorry but if you want to level as healer expect it to take a little longer, or go respec. World PVP should not be different versus WZ or Arena PvP. Not only do I have to worry about my character, but I also have to pick the right companion and have it geared to stand a chance at world PvP. It also helps to have all the buffs like I do which is a little OP too.

Expertise is dumb, there should be ONE set of ultimate gear at any one point in time that you can mod as you see fit (min/max). Get it from either rated PVP or PVE. Make it harder to get gear so people do both just to get the gear faster. Hard part is trying to balance when PvP gets gear versus PvE due to rankings and the amount cleared in an OPs. Skill should matter more then gear in PvP.

I will have to check to make sure the Mythic guy/s are not involved in the next game I play. How many mmo's have to fail before they get a clue. No lfg to help the under populated republic side, no server pools for WZ (so you end up playing the same people repeatedly), legacy imbalance, and others, all HURT the community INSTEAD of building it like they think. No duel spec hurts the community instead of helping it, you have PvP'ers in PvP specs and gear trying to run hard modes/OPs, while you have PvE'ers in PvE specs and gear trying to do WZ...hardly ideal.

Just wanted to add my vote to this.. I've already unsubbed, but I'm fascinated to know if this change was planned/delibrerate (given it flies in the face of their 'we want fights to last longer' statements).

Ditto ^^

i personally believe the problem we are seeing is a combination of a few things:

1. The wonderful implementation of Target of target

2. the nerfing of commando an sage heals. for some reason people thought healing was OP HINT: it wasnt

3. the 10% increase of all damage via expertise, yet the healing bonus remained the same

4. The buffs of the Knight ACs to increase damage. for some reason people felt Knights were underpowered. HINT: they werent

my suggestion to solve this problem with out completely removing the changes they did in 1.2:

increase the bonus healing from expertise from around 10% to 20% to put it on par with the increase of Damage, revert the healing nerfs slightly, while some healing was insane, the after effects of these changes are obvious. people die faster, way to fast in my opinion, i havent gotten any better in skill and my gear has been minorly upgraded, yet i can kill a target insanely fast or be killled insanely fast with or without a pocket healer. before a healer could keep me alive for a while and even though i couldnt kill as fast i stayed alive longer and felt productive to my team. getting the kills that were needed to win the warzones.

i believe that by adding the 10% to the heaing bonus and slightly improving resource consumption for healing things will be over all better from a QOL standpoint, the game was fairly balanced overall before 1.2

healers were hard to kill and were a force to worry about but with smart focus fire a healer could die just like anyone else. now most healers i know feel useless and half of them are switching to dps. this is affecting warzones alot since with less healers around the increase in damage feels 10 times worse than it should.

i really hope this is addressed soon i really like my healers and without healers this is going to be a very unhappy customer. and i am pretty sure the few pages before me also show i am not the only one.

Can't blame Mythic for this one, Mythic didn't have a PvP stat in their last 2 games (other then realm rank).

This is Bioware 100% copying Blizzard and making the same mistake they did.

Trion at least realized the mistake early on after I brought up the fact that PvP specific stats should never be different on PvP gear sets as that's not their intended purpose.

The PvP stat was designed to separate PVE and PVP gear sets, having one pvp set with 20% bonus damage, while another have 15% bonus damage is borderline moronic as you're applying a stat budget to a stat that shouldn't be budgeted in the first place.

Simply put, all PvP gear should have the same amount of Expertise on it, there is zero reason for War Hero to have more then Recruit as War Hero already has a Massive Stat advantage + set bonus.

This patch is ******** and I really hate the PvP since it went live.

Even as a Guardian in BM/WH gear I drop in 2-3 seconds. One 4 sek. stun is normally enough to kill anyone, even in a 2v2.

Sometimes I'll Leap into the fight with full HP, only to look at my HP a second or two later to see it down to 20% already.

Most Huttball games end after 15 minutes with low scores because Huttball carriers die so quickly.

Stealth has become even more powerful because you can take someone down to 50% in an opener.

What used to be perfectly fine PvP is now a frustrating gib-fest remnant of modern FPS more than anything else.

Dear Bioware, do you intend to revert TTK (Time to Kill) in PvP to pre 1.2, or is the current TTK in PvP the intended design and it is here to stay. I would like to know, that is all.

+1

This text provide to meet the min. required length of these forums...

Just had a voidstar match against 4 healers. They won because of a lucky plant. Still there is no chance to plant against 4 healers even with relatively good focus. Healers are still strong, if BW go back to pre 1.2 situation it is ridiculous. QQ more.

are you kidding me, because the other team stacked 4 healers you had a very competitive match, when before 2 healers would have done the same. healers by nature are rare! and the good ones even more Rare. having 4 healers on a team is not the norm. this not only proves my point but further encourages me that i am on the right track with this. healing should make it hard to kill people, that is what it is supposed to do. but they had 4 people healing like crazy and it was an even fight... your attempt at countering the majority only proves how ineffective healing has become.

are you kidding me, because the other team stacked 4 healers you had a very competitive match, when before 2 healers would have done the same. healers by nature are rare! and the good ones even more Rare. having 4 healers on a team is not the norm. this not only proves my point but further encourages me that i am on the right track with this. healing should make it hard to kill people, that is what it is supposed to do. but they had 4 people healing like crazy and it was an even fight... your attempt at countering the majority only proves how ineffective healing has become.

No, healing is still effective because now they are on equal ground towards DPS. Healing is still easier as you can heal your party through the opsframe/focustarget etc, focusing dps is a lot harder (since targeting is bad in the game atm). Good, fully PvP geared healer is still gona matter, now we can just kill you with good focus. Good focus against a good team is still hard and healers still have the natural advantage here.

Simply put, all PvP gear should have the same amount of Expertise on it, there is zero reason for War Hero to have more then Recruit as War Hero already has a Massive Stat advantage + set bonus.

At times I wonder where people find game developers... bravo to you for this suggestion.

1.2 is a mess, it would be great to generally get some answer from BW regarding "um.... *** PvP?" sure there were some complaints about balance pre 1.2 (there will always be balance complaints in an MMO) but were people demanding faster paced faceroll combat? Not that I saw.

No, healing is still effective because now they are on equal ground towards DPS. Healing is still easier as you can heal your party through the opsframe/focustarget etc, focusing dps is a lot harder (since targeting is bad in the game atm). Good, fully PvP geared healer is still gona matter, now we can just kill you with good focus. Good focus against a good team is still hard and healers still have the natural advantage here.

Since your first sentence, your premise, that healers are now on equal ground as dps is false, then the rest of your post has no merit.

The expertise ratio changed from 1-1-1 to 2-1.5-1. By definition healers have been nerfed compared to dps.

The thing that made healers on par with dps has been in the game since the beginning, its called the in combat 30% healing debuff.

Healers currently have no advantage over a similarly geared dps and anyone still playing one either just loves healing or doesnt understand basic math or cant even watch their own numbers in pvp.

There's such a small difference, the overreactions are amusing.

This. 1.76% is making people rage out. Cracks me up to see what people whine about in games...

On a side note, everyone claiming that they were hit by an unknown enemy of unknown quantity of unknown spec doing a 9k crit now instead of a pre-1.2 3k crit, please post evidence or stop using anecdotal evidence. I know you people don't want to give me real information that I can used to explain to you why you were getting hit so hard in a situation, but just saying "I don't believe in numbers derr" is the dumbest response ever.

Yes, damage increased on equally geared players by 1.76%. Nothing more. Healing was not touched in terms of expertise and remains unchecked and impossible to counter stat wise.

Yes, every cent/champ geared player (and people who re-modded BM gear) has been shafted in terms of the expertise on their gear, I'm sorry, get over it, buy the full recruit for 250,000 credits and you'll have 920 expertise giving you ONLY a 6% deficit compared to a new full BM, and a 9% deficit compared to a full war hero.

No. Wearing PvE gear in a warzone is not viable anymore at all.

Yes. You SHOULD worry if your expertise is below 900 since that is the baseline for recruit...the near-free pvp gear starting point.

Yes. Hitting people with 0 expertise will yield MASSIVE numbers if you are recruit+, but that is not a damage buff, that is separation of PvP gear from PvE gear, and the effect of someone being dumb (not at least buying recruit for pvp) and paying for it in the new system.

No. You aren't critting for x3 as much, or x99999 as much, or even x1.5 as much. You are just paying attention to numbers at the end of a warzone now since the new patch and being misinformed by a situation in pvp (BM vs fresh 50 no recruit) or the addition of hits (where you get hit so fast the game agglomerates them into 1 hit for ease of processing despite the fact it was not a 9,000 damage anything, multiple people hit at once).

And yes, the surge of activity associated with patch 1.2 has stirred the previously settled shark tank and a bunch of most-likely good pvp'ers who were less active are now enjoying the new 1.2 for a while. It happens.

Dear Bioware, do you intend to revert TTK (Time to Kill) in PvP to pre 1.2, or is the current TTK in PvP the intended design and it is here to stay. I would like to know, that is all.

THIS x1000

I'd imagine it's something in the middle, to be honest. They thought TTK was too slow before the patch, and then OVERfixed it in this patch. Their reasoning may have been that it's harder to take objectives with the low TTK. (Think, attacking in Voidstar, capturing a defended Alderaan node.)

Personally I think they should've tweaked objectives a bit to fix that problem, though. Like making the bomb plant and turret capture take less time.

Also, I think healing DID need a bit of a nerf (and I'm a healer) but what they could've at least done is boosted player defense to compensate for the higher dps.

ALSO, keep in mind that they're also trying to balance for PVE, so maybe they thought a dps buff was needed across the board.

I would love to know for sure what they were thinking though, so +1 to the OP.

 

Also, I think healing DID need a bit of a nerf (and I'm a healer) but what they could've at least done is boosted player defense to compensate for the higher dps.

 

I would love to know for sure what they were thinking though, so +1 to the OP.

Some healing needed a nerf for sure. My merc was stupidly OP with guard for example.

The problem is they nerfed a class that didnt need it to the point of making them non-viable as a healer in PvP due to thier squishiness and susceptibility to interrupts. Sorc/Sage healers were gutted and are only somewhat viable if they get left alone for an entire match.

So the merc changes were about right without the general change to TTK. Pretty balanced.

The sorc changes should have just been to force management and fixing a bugged ability. Even without the change to TTK, they were extremely heavy handed on this. No foresight, thought, or actual understanding from BW.

My operative was a little under powered in output prior to 1.2, but I felt that was balanced by how much survivability I had and the fact that I was almost completely unhindered by interrupts. Without the TTK issues post 1.2, I would most likely be OP thanks to the changes. With the TTK changes though, I feel about in balance.

I do have a fairly unique perspective as I play all three healing classes.

This talkings now are useless.

Let's talk about it when there will be enough full war hero geard people, with all possible augments, with changed warhero mods for optimized stats.

Then it will be the talk.

What to discuss now if there are no optimized chars utilizing all potential they could have in full strenght.

I read your post, I saw "i don't care about the obvious or the factual, i care about how i am personally performing with the current surge of players due to the recently released 1.2 patch causing a population spike in activity."

 

 

I deal in facts, logic, and common sense, not how you feel in a warzone now with a bunch of inactives coming back to play 1.2.

I'm sorry, but you have a lot to learn about science. I am being killed way faster then before; I'm talking within seconds sometimes. I'm playing in PvP gear. I can kill people in seconds, as well. There is something else going on besides a <2% increase. Perhaps this is not in line with your experience, but it is true for me and thousands of other players... Calculations that are not representative of reality for a great deal of players are useless. If scientists could get away with half-*** equations, everyone would be one...science is damn hard....think about it...