So how many NON modded items do your end game char use ?

Five each. Two implants, two relics and one earpiece. Per character.

Well, unless you count a relic with an augment slot drilled in it as moddable, but I don't because I take "moddable" to mean "accepts armoring, hilt or barrel plus mod and maybe enhancement".

I've rarely used the crafted gear from 5.0 to (not quite Ossus) (i.e. the MK-4 and MK-14 stuff) because it *isn't* the same as the corresponding MK-3 and MK-13 stuff:

* Heavy on Endurance and light on Mastery/Power compared to the default stats on the MK-3 and MK-13

* Does not have set bonus on armour pieces.

* Eternal Commander MK-4 Assault Cannons make you look like you're hauling around a giant can of Coke.

The question of moddability is almost irrelevant because the next tier up comes with shells. If the only only tier with shells was Eternal Commander MK-(1-3), *then* I'd care about moddability.

EDIT: but I'd achieve it by sticking the mod-objects in orange shells from the CM or the Alliance crates or the Command crates.

What I am getting at to make this simple.

Just let us buy the schematics from the trainers.

Have some part "hard" to get within REASON.

Ie, NOT Ops, PVP. in NO shape or form.

Since we will get gear from anything and everywhere in 6.0 anyhow.

To have us now buy schematics from Ossus was one thing, then GATE that schmatics need behind OPS makes them more or less totally useless.

Just look at the number of ppl that is on Ossus and NEED XXXXX for WEEKLY WB!

And place 1 part needed behind NiM is to me as the same as give us non modded armour.

I would say that it's more like not letting us craft end-game gear *at*all*. That one component that's needed to craft 258s isn't available to buy on my server *at*all*, so ...

Five each. Two implants, two relics and one earpiece. Per character.

 

Well, unless you count a relic with an augment slot drilled in it as moddable, but I don't because I take "moddable" to mean "accepts armoring, hilt or barrel plus mod and maybe enhancement".

 

I've rarely used the crafted gear from 5.0 to (not quite Ossus) (i.e. the MK-4 and MK-14 stuff) because it *isn't* the same as the corresponding MK-3 and MK-13 stuff:

* Heavy on Endurance and light on Mastery/Power compared to the default stats on the MK-3 and MK-13

* Does not have set bonus on armour pieces.

* Eternal Commander MK-4 Assault Cannons make you look like you're hauling around a giant can of Coke.

 

The question of moddability is almost irrelevant because the next tier up comes with shells. If the only only tier with shells was Eternal Commander MK-(1-3), *then* I'd care about moddability.

Yeah I see your point.

It's rather simple.

How many of the player base use crafted armour, offhand, Weapons that is NOT 258 for there main char or char they play often, for me it's none what so ever.

We all know BW makes items most are not keen on to use as you pointed out your self.

To craft Aug, Barrel, Hilts, Ear, relics are a far cry from all that can be crafted.

That exclude main weapons, offhand, armour is it from Synth or Armour mech.

We can always have them do it the other way for a change, how's that.

ALL you loot regardless where you get it from is non modded.

I wonder how the player base would like that concept

To me the relevant question remains: Is there a middle ground to acquiring the mats?

I agree that mats should not be locked behind NiM Ops but (isn't there always a but)…

Particularly since companions can gather mats through crafting quests, I am opposed to people getting BiS (moddable) gear through open world mats alone. Doing so would only encourage more botting, which I personally care about.

Perhaps the middle ground is to have one of the mats soloable -- but behind dailies / weeklies.

At the end of the day, BW wants to extend the time it takes to get gear to keep people subscribing. In this case, through time gating.

I understand the philosophical position of: Dasty, why do you care if I get BiS week one through sending companions on crafting missions? I get that argument, but I disagree with it.

/shrug

Dasty

We can always have them do it the other way for a change, how's that.

ALL you loot regardless where you get it from is non modded.

I wonder how the player base would like that concept

Most of what we get in ordinary loot is already fixed-stats or empty shells, although there are a few items that still drop on a very rare basis from ordinary world critters offering green or blue 104 modifications installed (I seem to get these drops mostly on planets where 104-rated items are reasonable). (And I still, memorably, have archived Armstech schematics for some of the Annihilator V guns, requires-level-48 preinstalled with blue-120 mods, which was pretty good for the days of 2.X and 3.X.)

As far as I know, the only pre-modded stuff we can get these days is the stuff we buy for Command tokens or Ops tokens from before Ossus, and the crates that drop in the Ossus missions, the ones that require us to propitiate the Mistress of Pain.(1)

(1) Chief goddess of Random Numbers, also known as Lady Luck (or in Pratchettian mythologies, "The Lady").

Yeah, that rings a bell.

 

But then again, why is ALL The gear up to date that we can craft non modded.

258 you can mod with bought schematics and we ALL know that's not an option at this stage.

 

So far EVERY high end item a crafter can make, Weapon, offhand, Armour what not is ALWAYS non modded.

 

So how many NON modded items do your end game char use ?.

 

for my 30 level 70 char on DM the simple answer to that is ZERO

I'm confused. I can craft ALL POSSIBLE 258 components (minus the tank A and B, since they are more or less useless so i did not bother to get those schematics) and all 258 pieces of gear with set bonuses on them and all the left side pieces too.

I got all the schematics basically from trainers other than for the components. Its super easy to get and is accessible to everyone.

All the gear is modifiable. So i really don't understand how you believe that the only thing we can craft for end-game is non-modifiable?

I'm confused. I can craft ALL POSSIBLE 258 components (minus the tank A and B, since they are more or less useless so i did not bother to get those schematics) and all 258 pieces of gear with set bonuses on them and all the left side pieces too.

 

I got all the schematics basically from trainers other than for the components. Its super easy to get and is accessible to everyone.

 

All the gear is modifiable. So i really don't understand how you believe that the only thing we can craft for end-game is non-modifiable?

They announced in 6.0 all End Game craftable gear will be Non modable.

Of course they also said RE'ing stuff from Galactic renown would be useful, so we don't know if that means special mats or the ability to RE and get mods/enhancement schems or what yet.

They announced in 6.0 all End Game craftable gear will be Non modable.

 

Of course they also said RE'ing stuff from Galactic renown would be useful, so we don't know if that means special mats or the ability to RE and get mods/enhancement schems or what yet.

You will get special currency that can be used at vendors to buy gear. But non-moddable in 6.0 is accurate.

My previous post is about the current crafting possibilities that we have which from my understanding the guy didn't think it was possible to craft moddable gear today.

You will get special currency that can be used at vendors to buy gear. But non-moddable in 6.0 is accurate.

 

My previous post is about the current crafting possibilities that we have which from my understanding the guy didn't think it was possible to craft moddable gear today.

I know we can craft modded 258.

I have those schems too.

We both know that 1 part is not that "easy" to get too and as someone pointed out, none for sale on he's server.

Well I will be gone for a week, holiday with the wife and dog.

So until we see each other again. Take care have fun

What you are saying it totally correct, then one can ask them self, WHY does BW once again plan to have crafters only make NON MOD end game gear ?.

Because as I said, crafting multiple sets of moddable gear seems redundant since you can just buy shells from the adaptable gear vendor for cheap.

I see both points.

 

As I am not an avid crafter and have no experience with endgame crafting in other games, can somebody give me an example of a current Mmorpg which allows crafting of highest tier gear without compromise compared to endgame drops? Is it successful and fun or is it a detriment to the economy and/or endgame group content?

Guild Wars 2 does this. The main tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2 are exotic and ascended gear and then there is legendary gear but it has the same stats as ascended gear except you can swap stats so if you play a different build then you can change the stat combination to the appropriate type.

Now legendary gear does involve crafting automatically and will also require some achievements from the game. Some involve raiding but not all.

But for BiS stats ascended gear is possible to craft. It drops in fractal dungeons and raids but you can also craft it and the trinkets can be gotten with reputation vendors of daily areas.

Crafting it is expensive though and therefore can be time-consuming or if you want to skip the grind for materials you can buy gems that you can legally transform into in-game gold. But if you are patient then it's very much viable to craft BiS gear (Weapons and Armor) and get the trinkets via dailies.

So how does this affect things?

As such it works because the crafting effort is a much bigger effort than playing those dungeons or raiding.

But there are some things I do have to note. Raids and dungeons are not like here. They do not use the normal trinity of tank, dps and heal. As a consequence, although boss fights can be tough, these fights do not generally have interesting mechanics and the core element of bosses is just more damage and hp sponges rather. This means that one of the most important parts of the harder group content is about buffing the party and upkeeping them as much as possible while doing damage rotations. For example if you enjoy playing a healer, do not play GW2. There are healers there but they are mostly concerned with stacking buffs than actual healing in a lot of cases. Also not that GW2 does not raise the level cap ever.

There's more to it but this is just to give you an indication that this game works rather differently. I do play it on and off but more as a casual player and I have BiS gear and some legendary weapons on a number of characters.

At the same time you can do pretty much anything except the highest content in exotic gear which is so easy to get. Exotic is essentially 252 gear in SWTOR except you can buy it straight from vendors and other players (drops or crafted). Just think of turning level 70 in SWTOR and already when you turn 70 having enough credits and say command tokens to buy 252 gear.

It's not for nothing that people who are used to this type of MMO can get bored at max level there because it feels like you're already done right away. And then what? Just get BiS for the sake of getting it and the grind grind grind for legendaries. Just in indicator for you, legendary weapons can take over 30,000 of one material. And that's just one small segment of the total effort.

For SWTOR the problem is that it doesn't reward harder group content. NiM drops are sh*t. And now with Ossus they made it worse in that sense. And now 258 gear is craftable but yeah it takes some rare drops. But you can buy those off the GTN but you have to save a lot of credits.

But the problem remains here that you can get better gear with crafting in this game than drops in HM and NiM operations. I like some of the changes that are coming but I've said years ago that SWTOR needs to have 3 gear types, Raid Gear, PvP Gear and PvE Gear. The last one being for casual PvE'ers who avoid things like raids/ops. Of course that requires 3 tabs to equip gear so you can switch between them easily or even automatically depending on where you are. And these sets should be the same in the base tier that you start with and any subsequent tiers can only be earned with the content it relates to but having the same rating, just different stat divisions and set bonuses as per the content.

Crafting could fill a role there but it should be a much bigger effort so that it doesn't devaluate the rewards of harder content. But the main problem with being able to craft BiS gear is that it devaluates the effort and skill of those who do beat HM and NiM Ops and those who really are good at ranked PvP. If you do not reward that properly the good players leave and the community suffers for it.

People often say but why should they care? Well, it's how it works, when you put your best foot forward and achieve something then you want it to be recognised. So either the game rewards that or most good players leave. It doesn't have to be stat gear that is the only thing but other than a couple of mounts (admittedly cool ones) there is nothing that rewards beating the toughest content in the game.

That's why crafting has to be done in a way that it's expensive or really time-consuming when it comes to endgame gear, especially BiS gear. Point is you CAN craft BiS gear in SWTOR today but it takes a lot of credits if you don't want to do what it takes. What that means is that SWTOR relies to easily on the credit thing. Instead of making an interesting crafting process or alternate ways to gain certain materials but at higher effort, it just comes down to credits. That's just boring. I would think that scavenger hunts via reputation vendors and using various currencies and crafting items to make other items like we see with prefabs and using crystals from Ossus for example could've made for an interesting alternative than those rare drops that you have to do hard content for or by with credits.

Anyways enough ramblings. I hope this gives you some new ideas on the topic.

To have them let use make modded end gear items.

 

At the moment the last we know is that we can craft end game gear that's non modded.

 

Simple ain't it.

 

And place 1 part needed behind NiM is to me as the same as give us non modded armour.

 

Point is still, Since day one as far as I remember every "end game" items have been non modded.

 

the simple question is why.

 

Still GATE it behind OPS. is not the answer, since that takes it away from 90% of the people that play.

They also said you will be able to make mods. What is different is the fact that set bonuses are now part of the shell. All new modable gear will be Legacy as well. There will also be more set bonuses available for each class than ever before. The simple answer is this. What you are asking for in essence is to have access to making Legacy gear with every set bonus possible. If they do not do that then people will be able to cry foul, it isn't play our way. We have never had the ability to make legacy gear in the past and only recently have they allowed us to make set bonus gear but it was gated behind extremely difficult content. Unless someone can come up with a way other than gating mat's behind content, that is not ROFLMAO, I agree with the Dev's decision. Imo crafting BiS should not be hand outs but rather something you have to work for.

Hello all.

Been away for a week on holiday with the wife

To tired atm to write something down atm so I will link this that I saved before I left.

Second post does tell it all for that part I would think

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=966175