BlznSmri Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Preface: This is the same as my Sentinel Guide, just written in a language that Mauraders will understand. I decided to do this when I noticed that you guys don't have a real PvE guide that's been kept up to date. The Marauder Advanced Class is a Pure DPS Melee class with varying degrees of Operations utility depending on the spec. The Annihilation tree brings extra interrupts and a raid wide 6% heal about every 30 seconds if managed well and the Carnage tree provides more spontaneous burst and increased Ops wide movement speed from the Predation buff. Unique Marauder Mechanic: What separates Marauders from Assassins and Juggernauts (aside from the fact that Marauders can't tank) is Fury which is built up by using abilities that spend Rage. At 30 stacks of Fury the abilities Berserk, Predation and Bloodthirst become available and are your main raid utility abilities. Berserk should be used nearly all the time because of how it affects each spec. Bloodthirst should be used at your raid leader's discretion, however it is most often used at the beginning of the fight (or shortly thereafter) for the possibility of being used later in the fight. Predation is mostly a Defensive/ Mobility skill that shines in PvP but has several uses during boss fights were mobility is key. Annihilation: The Annihilation spec is all about juggling cool down timers and making sure you have enough Rage to use Deadly Saber and maintain three stacks of Annihilator from Annihilate whenever they are available. Juyo Form is the foundation of this spec. As a Sith you should revel in your use of Juyo Form for it will feed on your Rage and allow the Dark Side to flow through you freely. However if you try to play this spec without Juyo Form at all, well, then there's nothing I can do for you. A general Annihilation build is 31/07/00 + 3 which gives you every major PvE damage, survivability and utility talent and leaves three points to spend where you feel is best for your group composition. The pure DPS approach to Annihilation Spec though would look something like this, a 31/3/7 build that sacrifices Defensive Roll (almost entirely unnecessary in TFB) to get an extra 15% crit chance with Vicious Slash, which if I recall correctly can amount to around 12-15% of your total DPS. For the Talents in the Annhilation Tree that I did not take Cloak of Annihilation and Seeping Wound are most useful in PvP environments since one, you should never be the target of the boss and thus Retaliation should never be available for use, and two, the only NPCs that are affected by movement speed debuffs aren't bosses and usually only around in between boss fights. Better known as Trash. I also see Phantom as more of a PvP talent with limited use in PvE environments because Force Camouflage acts mostly as an Aggro drop with the Stealth and Damage Reduction buff break when Direct Damage (anything not a DOT) is dealt to any target. That said, the movement speed buff and the damage reduction buffs are useful in certain fights (like Kephess), this alone makes it an Optional talent as opposed to a "Never take this talent for PvE ever" talent like the other two. Optional Talents Phantom as mentioned above. Malice:: Malice is great because your highest damaging abilities, your bleeds from Deadly Saber and Rupture, are classified as Force Abilities, and while you get a lot of Talented and Automatic (Berserk) Critical chance, the more often you crit, the more damage you do and the more "self heals" you receive. Narrowed Hatred: Narrowed is excellent because it's free 3% accuracy that you don't have to itemize for, but getting to 100% Accuracy for Melee attacks is fairly easy which why this falls under optional. Cloak of Carnage: For fights with a lot of AoE damage this is great because Cloak of Pain procs off of any damage received, has a maximum duration of 30 seconds, is on a 60 second cool down and with the talent gives you an extra Rage every three seconds that you take damage. Decimate: This for fights where extra AoE is desired, namely the Trandoshan phase of Kephess. DPS priority list because rotations are lame. 1.Vicious Throw: When target is under 30% health. It's your kill shot. Go kill things with it. 2.Deadly Saber: This is your highest damage burn, use it religiously. 3.Annihilate: Highest damage direct attack that had a 7.5 second cooldown at 3 stacks of Annihilator, part of maximizing damage in this tree is making sure you always have 3 stacks of Annihilator. Annihilate also has a 66% chance to reset the cooldown on Rupture. 4.Rupture: Use this off cooldown when available but only when Deadly Saber and Annihilate are on cool down. 5.Vicious Slash: Used as a Fury builder and has a 33% chance to reset the cooldown on Rupture. 6.Battering Assault: Use off cool down whenever your have less than six Rage. 7.Force Charge: Rage builder plus mobility plus interrupt. Use it as religiously or as sparingly as the current fight requires. 8.Assault: Builds Rage. Nuff said. As an aside: Ravage may be used sparingly on occasions when you are completely out of Rage and Battering Assault and Force Charge have more than 2 seconds left on their cooldown. It is decent "free" damage over three seconds. I do not recommend that newcomers to the spec try to fit this ability in until they're comfortable with the flow, if you will, of the spec. Stat Priorities Accuracy to at least 100%. That is the "safe-zone" when it comes to your Force abilities always hitting the target. Critical Multiplier (Surge) to 75% from Rating (about 325) Critical Chance to around 30% from Rating and Strength (the difference is variable depending on how much strength you have) Strength > Power. Carnage: The Carnage spec is all about hitting your target as hard and as frequently as possible. Ataru Form is the foundation and centerpiece of this spec as it directly affects 5 of the 17 talents in the Carnage tree. The way the tree works out is to make sure that you have Blood Frenzy procced when you use Force Scream preferably while the buff from Gore is up, making your Force Scream critically hit and completely ignore armor. Massacre helps ensure that the Blood Frenzy proc is up by automatically proccing the extra damage from Ataru Form. Berserk also provides extra burst when used in Ataru Form because it allows you to get Massacre off six times in six seconds (depending on latency and the amount of Rage you have) for relatively no cost, and when Massacre is used in conjunction with Gore it hits, for lack of a better term, hard. But lets not forget Ravage because by it's self it does a large amount of damage, but when used with Gore it can hit for 30-50% more. If you hadn't grasped it yet, Gore, is really important and should be used all the time, but I'm not at the priorities part yet. A good spec for Marauder with a few points to spare is 05/31/2 as it includes all the necessary damage, utility and survivability talents required to be successful, while still giving you the ability to tweak your build to meet your raid's needs. For the talents in the Carnage Tree that I did not take, Stagger and Overwhelm have almost zero usefulness in Ops environments since there is no noticeable benefit to keeping Trash mob or Add that spawns during a boss fight in place for a second longer. The same essentially applies to Displacement because there simply aren't enough situations where snaring an Add or Trash mob is required in raids and that there will rarely be a time when an encounter will necessitate the use of Obfuscate outside of melee range. Optional Talents Malice: Malice is nice but almost unnecessary to players unfamiliar Carnage spec because your only Force ability is Force Scream which ideally should only be used when Blood Frenzy has been procced. It does however affect Rupture, but I'll get to that below. Decimate: This for fights where extra AoE is desired, namely the Trandoshan phase of Kephess. Priorities, because, once again, Rotations are lame. 1. Gore: The armor penetration buff from this ability is just too good to pass up. Use it on cool down. 2. Vicious Throw: Use off cooldown, preferably after Gore 3. Ravage: Use only when the Gore buff is up. 4. Force Scream: Use ONLY WHILE Blood Frenzy is up, and preferably when the Gore buff is up. 5. Massacre: This effectively replaces Vicious Slash and it procs Blood Frenzy, Execute, Ataru Form, builds Fury and when used with Berserk provides an excellent amount of burst. 6. Battering Assault: Use off cool down whenever your have less than six Rage. 7. Assault: Once again, builds Rage. Another little tidbit is that if you are comfortable with the Carnage spec, I have noticed that I have gotten a DPS gain when I used Rupture off cooldown, just before I use Gore for maximum burst during Ravage and Force Scream cycles/ Force Scream and Massacrex2 cycles. I don't recommend trying this for someone who has just picked up the spec. Stat Priorities Accuracy to at least 100%, the Carnage Tree provides 6% accuracy just from Talents and being in the correct form. Critical Multiplier (Surge) to 75% from Rating (about 325) Critical Chance to around 30% from Rating and Strength (the difference is variable depending on how much strength you have) Strength > Power. Defensive Cooldowns/ Abilities: Force Camouflage: This is your aggro dump, it also puts you in a temporary stealth, reduces damage taken by 50% and increases movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. Usually, save it for if and when you pull aggro, for Sentinels it's usually within the first 10-15% of a Boss fight unless your tank is really on top of his game, otherwise it can be used when you have to navigate through areas of heavy AoE damage (like Gift of the Masters on Kephess). Cloak of Pain: Six seconds of 20% reduced damage that refreshes the duration once every three seconds for up to 30 seconds. It also reciprocates a little bit of damage once every 1.5 seconds each time you take damage. Now, I realize that this is all in the description, but I wanted to emphasize how amazing this cooldown is when it can be used every 60 seconds. It has a potential 50% up-time, making it easily the best defensive in the game. Use this when you expect to take AoE damage from bosses, Gharj's and Toth's stomps namely, also good for the trandoshans during the "Shield Phase" of Firebrand and Stormcaller. Saber Ward: A very powerful defensive cooldown as it not only increases your chance to avoid Kinetic and Energy based attacks, it also reduces incoming Tech and Force damage (this includes attacks like Lightning and Tracer Missile as well as Elemental (Burns) and Internal (Bleeds) damage). Use in situations such as Toth's Berserk, Gharj's Frenzy, or when your tank is down and waiting for a Battle Rez. Undying Rage: This is the very last defensive you should ever use, and only when the **** has completely hit the fan, you're one of the last people up and you're sure you can kill the boss within the five second duration. While the 99% damage reduction is very nice, the cost of 50% of your current health prevents it from being used frequently. When you do use it, I would advise that you use a medpac if you haven't used it already during the fight. Predation: A great ops-wide mobility buff that is best used in situations such as Gift of the Masters on Kephess and Gharj's Frenzy platform switches in EV. The only prohibiting factor of this ability is that it requires 30 stacks of Fury, but that is easily placated with the use of Frenzy. Additional Rating Information In regards to the suggested stats there are a few things I should mention those are simply baseline suggestions. The people that are much better at applied math than me figured all these ratings and stats out and the details are as follows. Augments:Without question use Strength augments over Power. Having 14 Strength Augments as opposed to 14 Power augments translates to a loss of like 5-7 raw damage, but an increase of about 1% Critical Strike Chance. The difference is really minute, but Strength gives a better all around benefit (damage and crit) than Power. Now, if you're wondering which of the four ratings (Accuracy, Surge, Crit and Power) are the most important then I've got an answer for you. Neither. This is because none of the talent trees have anything that improves DPS from a Crit proc, nothing specifically requires certain levels of Surge or Accuracy, and Power is just the wonder boy rating improving damage across the board. On to specifics. Accuracy and Surge:These two ratings are roughly 1:1. One point of Accuracy is worth one point of Surge. That said Accuracy beyond 100% is your gear budget being wasted. After 100% Accuracy you should shoot for Enhancements that have Surge on them, the reason being is that while Surge does start to hit it's Soft cap at around 75% it doesn't stop adding to your DPS. Crit and PowerCrit and Power are roughly 1:1 as well. After an extensive bout of like 40 different parses it has been determined that the difference in DPS with 164 Critical Strike Rating and 328 Critical Strike Rating is within 1% for both Carnage and Annihilation (Rage wasn't tested on the account of it being the red headed step-child that doesn't compete with Carnage or Annihilation in terms of DPS) when exchanged with Power. Simply put. within a reasonable extent, it doesn't matter how much Crit rating you have so long as you offset it with Power. A few gearing and modification tips. Armorings/ Hilts: Always go for the Strength heavy armorings and hilts. Always. Mods: When looking to increase your overall damage the mods you should use are the Deft Mods (just plain 25, 26 and 27) and the Potent mods. Enhancements: Each enhancement should be the (for example) 27 End/ 41 Rating A/ 57 Rating B and their counterparts depending on which of the Secondary stats you're working on. Basically what I'm getting at here is that if your mods have more Endurance than Strength or Secondary Stats you're wrong and should feel bad. In the Event that Torhead's talent calc is bugged, here are the links to the builds I've posted from another calc. Annihilation: 31/3/7 31/7/0 + 3 Carnage: 5/31/2 + 3 Edited January 3, 2013 by BlznSmri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Very nicely written. Very small mistake though, on annihilation you describe vicious slash as a rage builder rather than the rage dump I expect you meant. Also, imo rupture should be used before annihilate if both get off cd since annihilate has a good chance to reset it. Exception is if you risk losing annihilator due to it either being about to go off ( 2 first stack of it have a smaller window after all, or you forgot and are about to lose 3rd stack) or rage being too low to use annihilate after. Ravage fits rather well as a filler after you apply your bleed, since risk are you WILL be low on rage then (5 rage go into deadly saber/rupture) and while you dish that nice free damage, bleed build up more rage (hopefully) Also, I personnally combine force charge with deadly saber. They have the same cooldown, and it ensure applying it never threaten annihilate, giving it an effective +1 rage on deadly saber activation. Rupture normally cover at least one rage in the duration, so it set up your bleeds rage wise, ensuring battering assault supply annihilate mostly, and at most one assault will be needed in the rotation, but should your deadly saber bleed generate at least two rage, you end up with a rage neutral rotation. Any extras are put in vicious slash every 2-3 cycle or so, but annihilation having part of its rage random generated on the bleeds does mean its effectively a priority list, altough you can EXPECT certain result out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'll look into it, gotta get to class now lol, and about vicious slash for Anni, I said it was a FURY (Centering) builder. Not a Rage (Focus) builder. Though if you do find anymore typographical errors let me know, I did all the editing in a notepad and I felt like I was looking at code for like 2 hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Have to get some rest before looking too deeply, but don't know why you're recommending potent A's. They're just like defts but with crit instead of power, the best balance is always the generic whether it's deft or potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Have to get some rest before looking too deeply, but don't know why you're recommending potent A's. They're just like defts but with crit instead of power, the best balance is always the generic whether it's deft or potent. Thought I changed that. Fixed. In regards to my priority suggestions for Annihilation I place Annihilate above Rupture because of the comparative damage and the importance of maintaining the Annihilator buff, also because of the chance to refresh the cooldown on Rupture. That said, having a basic "Rotation" or "Cycle" of Charge + Deadly > Battering > Rupture > Annihilate > Ravage (if off cd) is ideal. The reason why I didn't mention it was because I was simply listing the priorities for each spec. What's more important to hit when off cool down. Edit: I'll include that "Cycle" or rotation suggestion though with the tidbit about using Ravage with Annihilation spec soon. Probably by the end of the weekend. Edited November 17, 2012 by BlznSmri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The current widely accepted theory is that it's best to have up to 110% accuracy for ops, up from old theory which recommended 108%. Not sure why you are suggesting 100%+the 6% from talents that carnage maras get, which only adds up to 106% Regarding strength vs power, there is a lot of argument and as one of those who has rigorously parsed, the difference is negligible. The reason for this is in your other point about crit vs power. 1% of crit is not going to be worth more or less than that few points of damage. Barring someone being grossly overbalanced with too much crit, there is little point in wasting time trying to optimize the balance of crit/pwr/str--it's all within a zone of about .5%. The only thing that really has an impact is trading off endurance for stats that improve damage. That is one reason why, as you've suggested, those potent/deft mods are the key to optimization. Depending on tier, they offer up to 15 points of damage-improving stats over the poorly balanced, endurance heavy mods. But there are TWO other reasons-- First, mods give DOUBLE the stat point boost of both armorings and enhancements (armorings give +3, str per tier, enhancements +3 power/crit per tier, but mods give +3 str AND +3 pwr/crit per tier). Second, mods cost LESS to make than armorings, but the same as enhancements (for DG gear, it's 4 stabilizers for mods or enhancements, 6 for armorings). Vanilla Potent/Deft Mods are easily the best bang for buck item in-game. This leads to one tip I think most guides leave out: The fastest way to gear up from columi is not to waste time trying to get in ops hoping a piece of rakata your class can use drops--even if it does, most pieces have poorly optimized mods any way, and you gain little or even nothing over a piece of columi. However, the difference between a poorly balanced columi mod and a well-balanced dread guard mod is a whopping +24 points--the equivalent of replacing an entire piece of columi armor with a campaign/BH piece that has the same flavor mod/armoring/enhancements. The fastest way a marauder can gear up is farm cash from dailies and crafting/selling and buy mods or hire a crafter to make them. That makes it much easier to run EC HM and eventually TFB HM. Those well-balanced DG mods are ones you'd have to buy any way to optimize even a suit of Dread Guard farmed from TFB, and will easily be the best investment a marauder can make, at least until the next tier is introduced. You might also want to clarify about the ravage/force scream, force scream/2xmassacre cycles and add that you can actually get in a third massacre once berserk is triggered. The massacres should always come first, followed by force scream, because Force scream has a "pause" at the end of the animation that you don't want eating up the gore timer. Re: adding in rupture, I don't think it's worth it even for a veteran marauder. Adding another move in means another second and a half while your 6-sec blood frenzy is cooling down. Unless your blood frenzy just refreshed off your last massacre, it means, thanks to that extra second and a half, blood frenzy is going to wear off before you get through ravage (or the 2 to 3 massacres) and begin your force scream. If you get lucky and bf is still up when you get to force scream, rupture will boost damage a bit, but odds are you will be unlucky, and it will give you a low-end parse because you didn't nail the force scream while blood frenzy was up. In my experience, you can get lucky parses with rupture that beat parses without it, but more often, they are worse. Rupture complicates things and only adds a variable that more often works against the player than for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 The current widely accepted theory is that it's best to have up to 110% accuracy for ops, up from old theory which recommended 108%. Not sure why you are suggesting 100%+the 6% from talents that carnage maras get, which only adds up to 106% I said accuracy up to 100%. Then added that it's easy to reach that since you get 6% from Talents and Ataru Form. The accuracy percentage I'm talking about is Melee Accuracy, which affects only Assault (and I think battering assault). All other abilities are affect by force accuracy. You might also want to clarify about the ravage/force scream, force scream/2xmassacre cycles and add that you can actually get in a third massacre once berserk is triggered. The massacres should always come first, followed by force scream, because Force scream has a "pause" at the end of the animation that you don't want eating up the gore timer. Re: adding in rupture, I don't think it's worth it even for a veteran marauder. Adding another move in means another second and a half while your 6-sec blood frenzy is cooling down. Unless your blood frenzy just refreshed off your last massacre, it means, thanks to that extra second and a half, blood frenzy is going to wear off before you get through ravage (or the 2 to 3 massacres) and begin your force scream. If you get lucky and bf is still up when you get to force scream, rupture will boost damage a bit, but odds are you will be unlucky, and it will give you a low-end parse because you didn't nail the force scream while blood frenzy was up. In my experience, you can get lucky parses with rupture that beat parses without it, but more often, they are worse. Rupture complicates things and only adds a variable that more often works against the player than for them. Proper integration of Rupture is ALWAYS a DPS gain. The physical damage + the bleed damage is more damage than one Massacre. Using Rupture every 15 seconds usually equates to about 80-120 dps. I also say use Scream before Massacre during Gore cycles because Scream, Crit or otherwise, always hits harder than Massacre, even with the offhand hit and Ataru form proc. That said, there's roughly the same delay between activation and damage of Massacre and Scream, and no noticeable delay preventing the activation of an ability after Scream, aside from latency and the global cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaqen Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 When it comes to annihilation, you only use rupture if the bleed effect from it has worn off. I also would like to mentioned that full buffed you only need about 32-34% crit...power really becomes king if you're good at abusing your rage generation and fury building to get berserk as often as possible. It may net less dps though in a fight where you end up holding berserk for a burn phase compared to using it as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatFishJohn Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Thanks for making a returned Fouder's life easier. After a long break and a first day back respec, this post allowed me to jump back in with ease. Bravo. Sticky please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Thanks! Reported for sticky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalekh Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Thanks for great guide! couple questions though.. is it ideal to use gore-ravage-force scream or gore-massacrex2-force scream? Also, i know there is no rotation, but do when gore,scream etc are on cd, do you spam massacre until "force out" and then assault? or massacre to keep buff up and slash between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) Thanks for great guide! couple questions though.. is it ideal to use gore-ravage-force scream or gore-massacrex2-force scream? Also, i know there is no rotation, but do when gore,scream etc are on cd, do you spam massacre until "force out" and then assault? or massacre to keep buff up and slash between? There are 2 primary Gore patterns, which you basically alternate due to CDs (Gore at 15s, Ravage at 27-30s). Gore > Ravage > Force Scream Berserk > Gore > Massacre x3 > Force Scream You do not want to delay Gore use more than 1 GCD past coming off CD (0 of at all possible) so you ideally want each Gore window to start with a fresh Blood Frenzy, or at the very least the Massacre buff (for the Ravage window) to minimize the chances of missing a forced crit Scream. For your second question, no, not exactly. The primary goal with Carnage is to use Gore to CD. If it's sitting up off CD, you're losing DPS fast. The 2 Gore patterns above have different Rage needs to support. -The Ravage pattern requires 3 rage (1 for Gore, 2 for Scream) -The Berserk Massacre pattern requires 6 (1 for Gore, 1 per Massacre, 2 for Scream). Thus, in between Gores, your goal is to ensure that you have what you need available for the next Gore. For Ravage, this means a minimum of 3 Rage, and preferably the Massacre buff and a fresh Blood Frenzy if at all possible. For the Berserk pattern, it means a minimum of 6 rage and 30 stacks of Fury (which you can, if necessary, get the final stacks out of Gore and fast-finger Gore > Berserk > Massacre to still squeeze 3 into the window). The secondary goal, after the Berserk Gore pattern, is to burn any remaining stacks of Berserk ASAP so that you can begin building Fury again. Advanced players may throw Rupture in as well for a little extra DPS, but that's not something to worry about at the moment. For all intents and purposes, you're using Battering Assault as often as possible to keep Rage up, and then using as many Massacres in between Gore windows as possible without leaving yourself short for the next one (and using Assault to keep things balanced). It's not quite build-then-dump, because you have very deterministic time targets with very deterministic needs that you need to be planning ahead for. Without taking damage, Fury becomes the tightest resource, but in actual content it's not a big deal and Berserk should be up when needed. There is a bit of a balancing act needed to ensure that you spend enough Rage to have 30 Fury every other Gore, but not leave yourself resource-starved and thus cost yourself DPS during your peak times (or delay Gore, which is just as bad). Edited December 5, 2012 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I also say use Scream before Massacre during Gore cycles because Scream, Crit or otherwise, always hits harder than Massacre, even with the offhand hit and Ataru form proc. That said, there's roughly the same delay between activation and damage of Massacre and Scream, and no noticeable delay preventing the activation of an ability after Scream, aside from latency and the global cooldown. So I tried this, for a tangential reason (in theory, there is enough time to squeeze in 3 Force Screams per 2 Gore cycles if you are able to time it just right), but even with low latency and good reflexes, I find that it is far too easy to wind up with the 3rd Massacre missing out on the Gore buff. One little lag hiccup or graphics lag hoses you, whilst Screaming at the end is much more tolerant of outside interference. It is definitely something for each Marauder to play with and determine if they can execute reliably. Especially if they have the awareness to time in the 3rd Scream (has to be IMMEDIATELY on CD after Berserk window). I'm still making an effort to do it this way, but I'm finding it's not as reliable as I'd like, and I haven't ruled out PEBCAK-related causes before I abandon the idea entirely in the name of consistency (since raw DPS output is so far above what is needed for content that it is somewhat moot in comparison to execution of mechanics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Bumping. Too bad 1.6 didn't change anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) disregard, posted in wrong thread. Edited December 12, 2012 by TradeLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) So I tried this, for a tangential reason (in theory, there is enough time to squeeze in 3 Force Screams per 2 Gore cycles if you are able to time it just right), but even with low latency and good reflexes, I find that it is far too easy to wind up with the 3rd Massacre missing out on the Gore buff. One little lag hiccup or graphics lag hoses you, whilst Screaming at the end is much more tolerant of outside interference. It is definitely something for each Marauder to play with and determine if they can execute reliably. Especially if they have the awareness to time in the 3rd Scream (has to be IMMEDIATELY on CD after Berserk window). I'm still making an effort to do it this way, but I'm finding it's not as reliable as I'd like, and I haven't ruled out PEBCAK-related causes before I abandon the idea entirely in the name of consistency (since raw DPS output is so far above what is needed for content that it is somewhat moot in comparison to execution of mechanics). Exactly! This is what I was talking about. In theory there is no pause at the end of Force Scream but in practice it's there. Even putting it at the end makes it a gamble. If you nail it regularly over 5 mins, you get a super parse, but in actual combat, I find it's usually not worth the gamble. <Edit-rewrote the following because it suggested the opposite of what I mean> If you put rupture before gore-ravage-fs, you put in an addition 1.5 gcd that makes the odds of massacre's blood frenzy buff wearing off before getting to fs higher. You could put rupture before gore-massacrex2-fs, you don't have to worry because the massacres are going to insure a blood frenzy is up. I'm still not a fan of rupture, but have been studying the parse of the carnage marauder at the top of this list, who is one of the high scorers at torparse: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534251 It's one of the higher dummy parses I've seen. He/she doesn't use three or even two massacres and then Force Scream, but rather four massacres. The parse is a little inflated because Ash'ley builds to full rage before starting the parse timer and casts a second bloodthirst at the end, but is nonetheless pretty impressive. Rupture is woven in, but never just before the gore-ravage-force scream cycle, which would greatly reduce the odds of blood frenzy being up when he hits force scream. Here is the parse with the junk edited out and sentinel terminology translated to marauder: 20:21:01.601 Ash'ley gains Rakata Might Stim. 20:21:01.602 Ash'ley gains Force Might. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Force Valor. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Lucky Shots. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Fortification. 20:21:01.606 Ash'ley gains Safe Login Immunity. 20:21:01.636 Ash'ley gains Ataru Form. 20:21:01.637 Ash'ley gains Sprint. 20:21:10.933 Ash'ley loses Safe Login Immunity. 20:23:32.109 Ash'ley enters combat. 20:23:32.145 Ash'ley activates Force Leap. 20:23:33.931 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:35.304 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:23:36.888 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:38.493 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:39.995 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:41.495 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:43.016 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:44.656 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:46.204 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:47.752 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:49.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:52.412 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:23:54.011 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:56.323 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:36.520 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:38.217 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:39.889 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:41.499 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:24:43.199 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:50.315 Ash'ley leaves combat. 20:24:54.157 Ash'ley enters combat. 20:24:54.190 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:24:55.183 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:24:55.592 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal. 20:24:55.672 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:24:55.771 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:24:59.242 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:01.004 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:02.663 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:04.245 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:05.748 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:07.252 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:08.766 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:09.164 Ash'ley activates Frenzy. 20:25:09.474 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:25:10.364 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:11.871 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:13.478 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:13.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:14.585 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:15.677 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:16.769 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:25:17.874 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:19.455 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:21.061 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:22.637 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:24.331 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:25.743 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:27.295 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:28.970 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:29.182 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:25:32.673 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:34.382 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:35.868 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:37.468 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:38.967 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:40.466 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:41.076 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:25:41.984 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:43.529 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:45.046 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:45.048 Ash'ley gains Massacre. 20:25:46.653 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:46.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:47.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:48.746 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:49.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:50.864 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:52.490 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:54.096 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:55.721 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:57.361 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:58.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:00.461 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:02.096 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:02.173 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:26:05.685 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:07.295 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:08.794 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:10.288 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:11.789 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:13.293 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:13.788 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:26:14.887 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:16.409 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:17.919 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:19.425 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:19.509 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:20.645 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:21.795 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:22.898 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:23.902 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:25.518 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:27.108 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:28.618 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:30.111 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:31.680 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:33.189 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:34.794 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:34.869 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:26:38.376 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:39.884 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:41.488 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:42.986 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:44.591 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:46.079 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:46.594 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:26:47.772 Ash'ley activates Assault.. 20:26:49.355 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:52.403 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:52.537 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:53.676 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:54.642 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:55.657 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:56.760 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:58.358 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:59.388 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:26:59.877 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:01.469 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:02.964 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:04.477 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:05.966 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:07.497 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:08.986 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:10.579 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:10.727 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:27:14.221 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:15.721 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:17.362 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:18.980 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:20.523 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:22.168 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:22.774 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:27:23.671 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:25.327 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:27.168 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:27.170 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:28.249 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:29.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:30.453 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:31.557 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:33.155 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:34.659 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:36.165 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:37.667 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:39.166 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:40.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:42.823 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:42.956 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:27:46.293 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:48.091 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:50.793 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:52.407 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:53.920 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:55.497 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:56.192 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:27:57.093 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:58.590 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:00.221 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:01.622 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:01.624 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:02.705 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:28:03.821 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:04.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:06.017 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:07.627 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:09.198 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:10.707 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:12.201 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:13.791 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:15.285 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:17.035 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal. 20:28:17.135 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:17.222 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:28:20.622 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:22.228 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:23.725 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:25.349 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:26.907 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:28.465 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:29.066 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:28:30.067 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:31.714 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:33.222 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:34.883 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:34.885 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:35.978 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:37.033 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:38.213 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:39.181 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:40.787 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:42.354 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:43.894 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:45.638 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:47.279 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:48.882 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:50.417 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:50.417 Ash'ley spends 1 . 20:28:50.418 Ash'ley gains Gore. 20:28:50.584 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:28:53.966 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:55.561 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:57.164 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:58.761 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:00.270 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:00.487 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:29:01.861 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:02.470 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:29:03.371 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:04.921 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:06.804 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:06.806 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:07.893 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:08.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:10.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:11.278 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:12.845 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:14.513 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:15.945 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:17.380 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:19.227 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:20.608 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:22.539 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:22.627 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:29:26.044 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:27.634 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:29.153 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:30.717 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:32.301 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:33.790 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:34.339 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:29:35.286 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:36.915 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:38.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:39.997 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:39.998 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:41.079 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:42.169 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:43.506 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:44.466 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:46.057 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:47.551 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:49.154 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:50.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:52.177 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:53.684 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:55.492 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:55.614 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:29:59.011 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:30:00.623 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:02.192 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:04.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:06.752 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:08.381 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:30:09.886 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:11.572 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:13.065 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:14.599 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:30:15.355 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:30:15.356 Ash'ley loses Centering. 20:30:15.356 Ash'ley gains Berserk. 20:30:16.285 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:30:16.287 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:17.337 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:18.443 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:19.536 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:20.591 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:30:21.718 Ash'ley activates Frenzy. 20:30:22.442 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:23.227 Ash'ley activates Bloodthirst. 20:30:23.796 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:24.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:26.452 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:30:28.050 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:29.609 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:31.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:32.948 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:30:33.035 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:30:36.596 Ash'ley activates Force scream.. 20:30:41.992 Ash'ley leaves combat. Edited December 13, 2012 by TradeLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshmallow Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Exactly! This is what I was talking about. In theory there is no pause at the end of Force Scream but in practice it's there. Even putting it at the end makes it a gamble. If you nail it regularly over 5 mins, you get a super parse, but in actual combat, I find it's usually not worth the gamble. <Edit-rewrote the following because it suggested the opposite of what I mean> If you put rupture before gore-ravage-fs, you put in an addition 1.5 gcd that makes the odds of massacre's blood frenzy buff wearing off before getting to fs higher. You could put rupture before gore-massacrex2-fs, you don't have to worry because the massacres are going to insure a blood frenzy is up. I'm still not a fan of rupture, but have been studying the parse of the carnage marauder at the top of this list, who is one of the high scorers at torparse: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534251 It's one of the higher dummy parses I've seen. He/she doesn't use three or even two massacres and then Force Scream, but rather four massacres. The parse is a little inflated because Ash'ley builds to full rage before starting the parse timer and casts a second bloodthirst at the end, but is nonetheless pretty impressive. Rupture is woven in, but never just before the gore-ravage-force scream cycle, which would greatly reduce the odds of blood frenzy being up when he hits force scream. Here is the parse with the junk edited out and sentinel terminology translated to marauder: 20:21:01.601 Ash'ley gains Rakata Might Stim. 20:21:01.602 Ash'ley gains Force Might. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Force Valor. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Lucky Shots. 20:21:01.603 Ash'ley gains Fortification. 20:21:01.606 Ash'ley gains Safe Login Immunity. 20:21:01.636 Ash'ley gains Ataru Form. 20:21:01.637 Ash'ley gains Sprint. 20:21:10.933 Ash'ley loses Safe Login Immunity. 20:23:32.109 Ash'ley enters combat. 20:23:32.145 Ash'ley activates Force Leap. 20:23:33.931 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:35.304 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:23:36.888 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:38.493 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:39.995 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:41.495 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:43.016 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:44.656 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:46.204 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:47.752 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:49.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:23:52.412 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:23:54.011 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:23:56.323 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:36.520 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:38.217 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:39.889 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:41.499 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:24:43.199 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:24:50.315 Ash'ley leaves combat. 20:24:54.157 Ash'ley enters combat. 20:24:54.190 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:24:55.183 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:24:55.592 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal. 20:24:55.672 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:24:55.771 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:24:59.242 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:01.004 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:02.663 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:04.245 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:05.748 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:07.252 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:08.766 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:09.164 Ash'ley activates Frenzy. 20:25:09.474 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:25:10.364 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:11.871 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:13.478 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:13.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:14.585 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:15.677 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:16.769 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:25:17.874 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:19.455 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:21.061 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:22.637 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:24.331 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:25.743 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:27.295 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:28.970 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:29.182 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:25:32.673 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:34.382 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:35.868 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:37.468 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:38.967 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:40.466 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:41.076 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:25:41.984 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:43.529 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:25:45.046 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:45.048 Ash'ley gains Massacre. 20:25:46.653 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:25:46.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:47.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:48.746 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:49.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:50.864 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:25:52.490 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:25:54.096 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:55.721 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:25:57.361 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:25:58.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:00.461 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:02.096 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:02.173 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:26:05.685 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:07.295 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:08.794 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:10.288 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:11.789 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:13.293 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:13.788 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:26:14.887 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:16.409 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:17.919 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:19.425 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:19.509 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:20.645 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:21.795 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:22.898 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:23.902 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:25.518 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:27.108 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:28.618 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:30.111 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:31.680 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:33.189 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:34.794 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:34.869 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:26:38.376 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:39.884 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:41.488 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:42.986 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:44.591 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:26:46.079 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:46.594 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:26:47.772 Ash'ley activates Assault.. 20:26:49.355 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:26:50.895 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:52.403 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:26:52.537 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:53.676 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:54.642 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:55.657 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:26:56.760 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:26:58.358 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:26:59.388 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:26:59.877 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:01.469 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:02.964 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:04.477 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:05.966 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:07.497 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:08.986 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:10.579 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:10.727 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:27:14.221 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:15.721 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:17.362 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:18.980 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:20.523 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:22.168 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:22.774 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:27:23.671 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:25.327 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:27.168 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:27.170 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:28.249 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:29.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:30.453 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:31.557 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:33.155 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:34.659 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:36.165 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:37.667 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:39.166 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:40.817 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:42.823 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:27:42.956 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:27:46.293 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:27:48.091 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:27:50.793 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:52.407 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:27:53.920 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:27:55.497 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:56.192 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:27:57.093 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:27:58.590 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:00.221 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:01.622 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:01.624 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:02.705 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:28:03.821 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:04.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:06.017 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:07.627 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:09.198 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:10.707 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:12.201 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:13.791 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:15.285 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:17.035 Ash'ley activates Exotech Attack Adrenal. 20:28:17.135 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:17.222 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:28:20.622 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:22.228 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:23.725 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:25.349 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:26.907 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:28.465 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:29.066 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:28:30.067 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:31.714 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:33.222 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:34.883 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:34.885 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:35.978 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:37.033 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:38.213 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:39.181 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:40.787 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:42.354 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:43.894 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:28:45.638 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:47.279 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:48.882 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:28:50.417 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:28:50.417 Ash'ley spends 1 . 20:28:50.418 Ash'ley gains Gore. 20:28:50.584 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:28:53.966 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:28:55.561 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:28:57.164 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:28:58.761 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:00.270 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:00.487 Ash'ley activates Power Boost. 20:29:01.861 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:02.470 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:29:03.371 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:04.921 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:06.804 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:06.806 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:07.893 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:08.969 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:10.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:11.278 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:12.845 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:14.513 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:15.945 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:17.380 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:19.227 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:20.608 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:22.539 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:22.627 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:29:26.044 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:27.634 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:29.153 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:30.717 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:32.301 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:33.790 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:34.339 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:29:35.286 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:36.915 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:38.480 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:39.997 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:39.998 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:41.079 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:42.169 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:43.506 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:44.466 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:29:46.057 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:29:47.551 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:49.154 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:29:50.655 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:52.177 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:29:53.684 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:29:55.492 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:29:55.614 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:29:59.011 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:30:00.623 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:02.192 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:04.357 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:06.752 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:08.381 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:30:09.886 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:11.572 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:13.065 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:14.599 Ash'ley activates Massacre.. 20:30:15.355 Ash'ley activates Berserk. 20:30:15.356 Ash'ley loses Centering. 20:30:15.356 Ash'ley gains Berserk. 20:30:16.285 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:30:16.287 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:17.337 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:18.443 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:19.536 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:20.591 Ash'ley activates Force scream. 20:30:21.718 Ash'ley activates Frenzy. 20:30:22.442 Ash'ley activates Assault. 20:30:23.227 Ash'ley activates Bloodthirst. 20:30:23.796 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:24.915 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:26.452 Ash'ley activates Rupture. 20:30:28.050 Ash'ley activates Battering assault. 20:30:29.609 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:31.370 Ash'ley activates Massacre. 20:30:32.948 Ash'ley activates Gore. 20:30:33.035 Ash'ley activates Ravage. 20:30:36.596 Ash'ley activates Force scream.. 20:30:41.992 Ash'ley leaves combat. Ahem. The reason Ash'ley parses so high is because he starts off with extra rage, 30 fury, and uses 2 bt which is an about a 50 dps increase. Meaning my 2153 parse with 1 bt is technically the higher. Edited December 13, 2012 by marshmallow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ahem. The reason Ash'ley parses so high is because he starts off with extra rage, 30 fury, and uses 2 bt which is an about a 50 dps increase. Meaning my 2153 parse with 1 bt is technically the higher. Their DPS isn't the discussion here. However, their dps is the discussion here. The point of the post was to discuss their Gore rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ahem. The reason Ash'ley parses so high is because he starts off with extra rage, 30 fury, and uses 2 bt which is an about a 50 dps increase. Meaning my 2153 parse with 1 bt is technically the higher. I flagged that issue with the parse and noticed you out-dpsed Ash'ley on your best shot at the last boss in TFB HM, Vexo, and also ranked well on Writhing Horror and Kephess TFB, so I think you're certainly qualified to comment on rotation. I also notice you use the personal ship training dummy, which in my book is perfectly fair, as far as I can tell the only difference from the Zion dummy is the near constant lag in that phase which makes when and with how much lag a person parsed there an issue. I know some use rupture, some don't--Steadfast for one noticeably seems to kick some *** without it, but you seem to do quite well with it---what's your philosophy on when and how to use rupture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Interesting...Vexo's parse follows. Notice a very consistent pattern, gore-ravage-force scream alternating with gore-massacrex3-force scream, rupture-massacre placed before each gore, and dealing with the more frequent loss of blood frenzy before getting through ravage by starting force scream early and canceling ravage. That way, the bleeds from his rupture get the benefit of the gore, but he gives up the last tick of ravage to get it. rupture-massacre-gore-ravage-massacrex3-force screamrupture-massacre-gore-ravage-force scream (cancel ravage early if blood frenzy running out) Sound about right? Vexo's parse cleaned up: 18:46:48.991 Vexo enters combat.18:46:49.017 Vexo activates Force Charge.18:46:49.436 Vexo activates Rakata Attack Adrenal.18:46:50.610 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:46:52.112 Vexo activates Rupture.18:46:53.614 Vexo activates Massacre.18:46:53.930 Vexo activates Gore.18:46:55.117 Vexo activates Ravage.18:46:58.032 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:46:58.033 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:46:59.626 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:01.129 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:02.627 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:47:04.225 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:05.746 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:07.249 Vexo activates Rupture.18:47:08.749 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:09.062 Vexo activates Gore.18:47:09.346 Vexo activates Berserk.18:47:10.251 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:11.356 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:12.463 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:13.566 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:47:15.063 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:47:16.629 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:17.719 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:18.863 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:20.414 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:23.430 Vexo activates Rupture.18:47:25.414 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:25.441 Vexo activates Gore.18:47:26.531 Vexo activates Ravage.18:47:29.437 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:47:29.437 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:47:31.062 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:32.616 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:47:34.114 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:35.614 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:37.109 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:38.620 Vexo activates Rupture.18:47:40.131 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:40.447 Vexo activates Gore.18:47:40.729 Vexo activates Berserk.18:47:41.631 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:42.735 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:43.765 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:44.767 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:47:46.365 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:47:47.953 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:49.454 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:50.466 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:51.564 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:53.061 Vexo activates Assault.18:47:54.566 Vexo activates Rupture.18:47:56.082 Vexo activates Massacre.18:47:56.399 Vexo activates Gore.18:47:57.583 Vexo activates Ravage.18:48:00.501 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:48:00.502 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:48:02.097 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:48:03.599 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:05.099 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:06.599 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:08.098 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:09.623 Vexo activates Rupture.18:48:11.121 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:11.582 Vexo activates Gore.18:48:11.914 Vexo activates Berserk.18:48:12.686 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:13.788 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:14.899 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:15.999 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:48:17.553 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:48:19.046 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:20.648 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:21.649 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:22.750 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:24.262 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:25.766 Vexo activates Rupture.18:48:27.262 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:27.579 Vexo activates Gore.18:48:28.764 Vexo activates Ravage.18:48:31.681 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:48:31.681 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:48:33.277 Vexo activates Battering Assault..18:48:34.777 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:36.278 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:37.790 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:39.296 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:40.777 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:42.297 Vexo activates Rupture.18:48:42.912 Vexo activates Gore.18:48:43.093 Vexo activates Berserk.18:48:43.796 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:44.795 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:45.897 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:46.904 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:48:48.495 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:48:50.007 Vexo activates Assault.18:48:51.509 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:52.513 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:53.504 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:56.745 Vexo activates Massacre.18:48:58.363 Vexo activates Rupture.18:48:59.845 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:00.163 Vexo activates Gore.18:49:01.352 Vexo activates Ravage.18:49:04.367 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:49:05.957 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:07.460 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:49:08.961 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:10.466 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:11.965 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:13.484 Vexo activates Rupture.18:49:14.984 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:15.313 Vexo activates Gore.18:49:15.595 Vexo activates Berserk.18:49:16.489 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:17.488 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:18.618 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:19.701 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:49:21.214 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:49:22.708 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:24.211 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:25.217 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:26.313 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:27.812 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:29.332 Vexo activates Rupture.18:49:30.836 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:31.148 Vexo activates Gore.18:49:32.332 Vexo activates Ravage.18:49:35.351 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:49:36.944 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:49:38.447 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:39.945 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:41.459 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:42.959 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:44.466 Vexo activates Rupture.18:49:45.965 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:46.396 Vexo activates Gore.18:49:46.578 Vexo activates Berserk.18:49:47.480 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:48.480 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:49.600 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:50.685 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:49:52.196 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:49:53.696 Vexo activates Assault.18:49:55.198 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:56.285 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:57.699 Vexo activates Massacre.18:49:59.077 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:00.680 Vexo activates Rupture.18:50:02.179 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:02.414 Vexo activates Gore.18:50:03.700 Vexo activates Ravage.18:50:06.701 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:50:08.295 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:50:09.798 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:11.297 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:12.810 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:14.315 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:15.810 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:17.315 Vexo activates Rupture.18:50:17.947 Vexo activates Gore.18:50:18.129 Vexo activates Berserk.18:50:18.829 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:19.832 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:20.932 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:21.950 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:50:23.566 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:50:25.044 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:26.557 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:27.558 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:28.661 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:30.155 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:31.674 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:33.176 Vexo activates Rupture.18:50:34.673 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:34.909 Vexo activates Gore.18:50:36.192 Vexo activates Ravage.18:50:39.211 Vexo activates Force Scream..18:50:40.722 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:42.225 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:50:43.744 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:45.244 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:46.737 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:48.243 Vexo activates Rupture.18:50:49.741 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:50.074 Vexo activates Gore.18:50:50.340 Vexo activates Berserk.18:50:51.243 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:52.261 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:53.210 Vexo activates Massacre.18:50:54.366 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:50:55.975 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:50:57.472 Vexo activates Assault.18:50:59.006 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:00.126 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:01.225 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:02.972 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:04.376 Vexo activates Rupture.18:51:05.996 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:06.109 Vexo activates Gore.18:51:07.494 Vexo activates Ravage.18:51:10.414 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:51:10.415 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:51:12.006 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:13.508 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:51:15.026 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:16.527 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:18.027 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:19.528 Vexo activates Rupture.18:51:21.043 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:21.360 Vexo activates Gore.18:51:21.641 Vexo activates Berserk.18:51:22.545 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:23.645 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:24.748 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:25.766 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:51:27.296 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:51:28.801 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:29.796 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:30.913 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:32.409 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:34.026 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:35.697 Vexo activates Rupture.18:51:37.299 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:37.515 Vexo activates Gore.18:51:38.800 Vexo activates Ravage.18:51:41.702 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:51:41.702 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:51:43.314 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:51:44.819 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:46.314 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:47.859 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:49.359 Vexo activates Assault.18:51:50.886 Vexo activates Rupture.18:51:52.782 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:53.198 Vexo activates Gore.18:51:53.579 Vexo activates Berserk.18:51:54.397 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:55.401 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:56.518 Vexo activates Massacre.18:51:57.499 Vexo activates Force Scream.18:51:59.117 Vexo activates Battering Assault.18:52:00.601 Vexo activates Assault.18:52:02.114 Vexo activates Massacre.18:52:03.115 Vexo activates Massacre.18:52:04.215 Vexo activates Massacre.18:52:05.726 Vexo activates Assault.18:52:06.245 Vexo activates Frenzy.18:52:06.664 Vexo activates Bloodthirst.18:52:07.372 Vexo activates Rupture.18:52:08.951 Vexo activates Massacre.18:52:09.263 Vexo activates Gore.18:52:10.459 Vexo activates Ravage.18:52:13.365 Vexo cancels Ravage.18:52:13.366 Vexo activates Force Scream. Edited December 13, 2012 by TradeLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Interesting...Vexo's parse follows. Notice a very consistent pattern, gore-ravage-force scream alternating with gore-massacrex3-force scream, rupture-massacre placed before each gore, and dealing with the more frequent loss of blood frenzy before getting through ravage by starting force scream early and canceling ravage. That way, the bleeds from his rupture get the benefit of the gore, but he gives up the last tick of ravage to get it. rupture-massacre-gore-ravage-massacrex3-force scream rupture-massacre-gore-ravage-force scream (cancel ravage early if blood frenzy running out) Sound about right? Which is ironic, because a lot of his decisions are not optimal, and yet he still runs all around the forum looking for validation that he's the bestestest Marauder in the whole wide world. He got a very clean parse and a great number to show for it, but that doesn't mean it was perfect or that he's doing anything better than the rest of us (he's not, and parses of his actual boss fights show that he's good, but pretty much in line with above-average Marauders at his gear level). 1) You should never have to clip Ravage. So long as you are quick with Gore > Ravage (e.g. set up binds that minimize the time gap between the two) you will never have issues getting Scream into a Gore window. Many people, even good Marauders, get impatient, and you really do have to let the channel finish entirely to get all 3 attack rounds out of Ravage. Letting the final hit begin to animate is not enough. 2) Always chucking Rupture before Gore does indeed increase the odds of missing Blood Frenzy on Scream, which is a DPS loss. Rupture is also a fairly small DPS gain over using a Massacre in its place, so the upside of having the bleeds rolling 24/7 are not compensated for by missed Scream crits. Rupture *is* worth using, especially in real boss fights, but it is not so critical that "rotation" timing is built around it. 3) Rupture bleeds, being internal damage, bypass armor anyway, and as such do not benefit in any way from Gore. Aligning Rupture with Gore does nothing other than make a consistent pattern (Rupture > Gore > XXX) and ensure a maximum number of uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 So I tried this, for a tangential reason (in theory, there is enough time to squeeze in 3 Force Screams per 2 Gore cycles if you are able to time it just right), but even with low latency and good reflexes, I find that it is far too easy to wind up with the 3rd Massacre missing out on the Gore buff. One little lag hiccup or graphics lag hoses you, whilst Screaming at the end is much more tolerant of outside interference. It is definitely something for each Marauder to play with and determine if they can execute reliably. Especially if they have the awareness to time in the 3rd Scream (has to be IMMEDIATELY on CD after Berserk window). I'm still making an effort to do it this way, but I'm finding it's not as reliable as I'd like, and I haven't ruled out PEBCAK-related causes before I abandon the idea entirely in the name of consistency (since raw DPS output is so far above what is needed for content that it is somewhat moot in comparison to execution of mechanics). Sorry I haven't replied to this sooner, I've been busy with school and stuff, but... I'll definitely try it out for myself, I definitely like seeing massive Scream crits, but having it crit 100% of the time is more of a dps gain. Also Massacre and Ataru Form procs ignoring armor really adds up. Also I'll be doing a bit more playing around with the Force Scream/ Blade Storm pause later as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlznSmri Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Didn't see this one before I replied to your other post, but... 1) You should never have to clip Ravage. So long as you are quick with Gore > Ravage (e.g. set up binds that minimize the time gap between the two) you will never have issues getting Scream into a Gore window. Many people, even good Marauders, get impatient, and you really do have to let the channel finish entirely to get all 3 attack rounds out of Ravage. Letting the final hit begin to animate is not enough. I completely agree. The final tick of Ravage is the hardest hitting tick and usually hits for about the same damage as a Force Scream crit while Gore is up. If you clip it for a "Guaranteed" Scream crit you pretty much cut the damage in half. IMO it's better to let Blood Frenzy fall off and have a Non-Crit Scream hit than cut off the last hit of Ravage. 2) Always chucking Rupture before Gore does indeed increase the odds of missing Blood Frenzy on Scream, which is a DPS loss. Rupture is also a fairly small DPS gain over using a Massacre in its place, so the upside of having the bleeds rolling 24/7 are not compensated for by missed Scream crits. Rupture *is* worth using, especially in real boss fights, but it is not so critical that "rotation" timing is built around it. 3) Rupture bleeds, being internal damage, bypass armor anyway, and as such do not benefit in any way from Gore. Aligning Rupture with Gore does nothing other than make a consistent pattern (Rupture > Gore > XXX) and ensure a maximum number of uses. In regards to Rupture, I agree that using it before Gore + Ravage cycles is more risk than reward usually, and since you should be using Gore off CD, Rupture wont usually line up with your second Gore cycle. I'm going to be playing around with it, but I'm starting to think that using Rupture in between Gore cycles is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkitip Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Typically I'll just use a Massacre after Ravage during the Gore window if Blood Frenzy wears off. Force Scream is really an awful use of rage if not buffed by Blood Frenzy. Edited December 13, 2012 by arkitip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeLA Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I agree that when blood frenzy fades early during ravage, letting ravage finish and hitting massacre "feels" like it does more damage than interrupting ravage and hitting force scream early but have no data to back it up. The old school wisdom on Carnage and Rupture, originally theorycrafted at MMO-Mechanics I believe , is that rupture is basically the split difference between an assault and a massacre, it doesn't add damage and only complicates rotation. I know some well-performing marauders use it, but have not seen any math to back it up. The idea of the bleeds benefiting from gore is is cited by some marauders (like Vexo, I think?) as the reason for putting it just before activating gore. I think Omo is right though, about rupture ignoring armor any way. This is a pretty useful discussion but I think a lot of people who could contribute are unlikely to find it in this thread, so I am going to start a new one, here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5573259#post5573259 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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