Then they shouldn't be raiding. End of argument.

 

You aren't going to get everything handed to you for free, you have to work for it.

 

This....

There's plenty of info out there that will show you how to kill the boss. I think it's good people are finding it to be a challenge, it should be. It JUST CAME OUT. Casuals shouldn't get faceroll content just because they play less than the rest of raiders. If you're not raiding for the challenge then why raid at all?

 

Exactly, it shouldn't be being beaten within the first couple of weeks by casual guilds the way EV and KP was. People need to not get used to the easyness of EV and KP. By getting used to it - it's caused EC to become a real shock to the system in terms of difficulty.

 

Personally IF (and only if) people are still struggling to beat all the Story mode bosses in about 3-4 weeks, then whenenver Nightmare gets released, Story could maybe be nerfed. But generally I'd advise against it. Keeping it how it is will push the playerbase to become better.

 

The advantage to this being that they will then be able to progress from Story->HM->Nightmare without it being a massive difficulty jump. If EC Story did get nerfed hard, then it would make Casual guilds who like to finish Story and start HM find it really tough to adapt to HM.

yeah, please nerf denova. i hate having to think on my feet. can you guys tone this op down a bit so i can stay in farming mode? thanks.

Story Mode is easy enough, cleared it the first night and didn't have any problems understanding the mechanics. Having fun with Hard Mode now.

What I wonder is around what gear story, hard and NM mode are balanced. Seeing how much augments improve stats overall I don't know if this will become mandatory or not - it sure as hell does make things a lot easier. Terrible design btw, should've just given crafting professions the ability to put augment slots in existing gear instead of the whole RE and maybe get lucky BS they have right now.

 

What I really hate about Denova is the 8 man raid setup, we only have 1 tank (1 sin, no other AC we have can taunt at least) and I had to tank 1st and 2nd boss as a Marauder in dmg gear which is not as awesome as it sounds. Doubt it'll work on HC but whatever, just going to find a completely new player with gear and skill and swap him in on these bosses /thumbs up.

What I wonder is around what gear story, hard and NM mode are balanced. Seeing how much augments improve stats overall I don't know if this will become mandatory or not - it sure as hell does make things a lot easier. Terrible design btw, should've just given crafting professions the ability to put augment slots in existing gear instead of the whole RE and maybe get lucky BS they have right now.

 

What I really hate about Denova is the 8 man raid setup, we only have 1 tank (1 sin, no other AC we have can taunt at least) and I had to tank 1st and 2nd boss as a Marauder in dmg gear which is not as awesome as it sounds. Doubt it'll work on HC but whatever, just going to find a completely new player with gear and skill and swap him in on these bosses /thumbs up.

 

We learned at the Guild Summit that i) the devs intended tier 1 to be 2-tanked and ii) that EC is a 2 tank raid.

 

There was lots of time to address this.

What is wrong with people. Do you want to walk in and one shot it with no effort, wiping all hight is fun. How else will you learn how to do it?

 

Ugh, cant believe so many people like easy mode crap.

 

Wiping all night is fun for you, don't presume it's fun for everyone else.

 

But here's the thing I don't understand. If you want to wipe all night, do hardmode and nightmare when it comes out. Why you all are demanding story mode be for the "hardcores" is beyond me. You are NOT the target audience for this content. Story mode is made for people who like "easy mode crap" as you put it. Stop demanding that everything be about YOU.

Pre 1.2: WE NEED HARDER ENDGAME

 

After 1.2: WE NEED EASIER ENDGAME

 

With 3 modes these are not mutually exclusive ideas. Story mode does seem to be a bit on the hard side for what story mode is supposed to be, a fairly easy mode that allows players to see the story and get some loot out of it. Story mode being widely accessible does not preclude Hard Mode from being hard, nor Nightmare Mode making raid leaders pee the bed in their sleep.

Your getting up ppl that want end game raiding to continue as bioware has implemented and saying they are selfish for not wanting to change it, yet your being just as bad demanding bioware change it specifically to your needs.

 

FIrst off, I'm not demanding anything. Let alone demanding anything be made to my specific needs. I'm simply saying that if you are going to have multiple difficulty levels you should use those levels to get as much of the population into the raid as possible. Again, why do you need story mode for you and hard mode for you?

 

What possible sense does it make to have 3 levels of difficulty and only have maybe 10% of the population use it?

Doesn't it make infinitately more sense to have much more of the population in the raid so that more dev time can be devoted to raiding? Don't you realize that if 90% of the population doesn't touch the raid that 90% of the dev time is going to go to giving them something else to do so they don't unsub?

 

It's absolutely in the raider's best interest to get as many people raiding as possible but time and time again they insist on excluding 90% of the playerbase. Raiders are already complaining about 4 bosses, watch what happens when even less people are raiding....

The new raid certainly is hard but take into account that it is a new raid and maybe slightly overtuned: it is easier to bring out something hard, and then enrf, rather than beginning with it easy and having to buff it. Overall, I think I'm satisfied with the new raid: so long as you do things correctly and follow the tactics you will be fine.

 

I also like how the fights are designed. Boss 1 is basically a tank fight: switch properly and its fairly easy.

 

Boss2 is a dps awareness fight (which hurt us cause it took awhile to get used to the DD beams....)

 

Boss3 is a stupid puzzle fight that isnt as hard as it seems (though it is abit of a dps race).

 

Final boss is....well, we couldn't down him in the first week because the tactics were nowhere near comprehensive and we didn't really have time to figure it out. Still, he will probably go down thsi week in my guild, and in many, many others I suspect, so its not like the new raid is so overtuned on story mode that you can't complete it.

 

 

I will admit its very unforgiving for the gearlvl: since it drops Rakata, I assume we are meant to be in full Columi to be able to do this raid. Most of the raid we had were in a mix of Columi with a few Rakata pieces and we still found it quite challenging so it probably is just overtuned and, if so, will be nerfed in a week or 2 so there is hope

The new Operation is meant to remove the simple "healer + dps spam = win" equation. This content has been thoroughly tested by our peers on the Public Test Server. There have been changes to the Operation, such as an increase in damage done by Fireband and Stormcaller, and there have been tests run on those changes.

 

There's a key thing to remember: The 16-man Hard Mode clear done by Millenium was the result of hard work. I can't remember where exactly I read it (it may have been the thread where they defend their kill and clear), but it took them approximately 50 hours of testing and mechanic tuning so that they could make the World 1st claim when the content went live.

 

My guild does not run on the PTS and I believe we only have one person that actually plays around with the new content when it does come out. When Explosive Conflict launched after the 1.2 patch, we didn't walk into the Op and faceroll over the mobs and the enemies. The DPS, the healers, and the tanks were on point with their jobs. What they weren't on point with was the mechanics. We have a good group of guys who continued to play around with the boss fights until we finally achieved our clear.

 

We upgraded to Hard Mode, where we've been doing one important thing: learning new mechanics. The practice in Hard Mode paid off beautifully in Story Mode, as we went into the Operation tonight and did a 1-1-2-2 clear of the entire Operation. There are guilds on our server that have comparatively better gear than some of our members, but have not yet cleared all of Story Mode in the first place. The answer is simple: you can't just press buttons in a rotation. You have to watch for AoE's, you have to watch for the stage changes, and you have to cumulatively contribute to the group. When we first stepped in, we were amazed at how initially unforgiving the mechanics were. We're very happy with how they work.

 

The point of this <insertcoolstorybro> is this: Nerfing Denova is not the answer. Practice, patience, and the right group of people willing to trudge through the muck of it is.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Andex

Anyone else think this place is really hard on story mode? I guess its all about understanding the mechanic, but realy seems way to hard. We, among other guilds on our server cant get past the first boss, even though we had a few 10% wipes. Most of our members are full columi/rakata geared too, so how can casual guilds get past the damage the first boss fight does, our healers cant keep up.

 

As you said story is supposed to be for people interested in the story, people interested in difficulty have the other 2 modes.

People need to stop complaining about every single thing they do in this game. Just because you cant down something doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I am extremely happy to see that raiding is now a progression instead of a 1 shot, if you honestly expect everything to be handed on a platter to you before you know it this game will become f2p. Try to think of the possibility that its not the games fault always and maybe you just dont know something. The forums needs to be restricted to people who actually know how to play mmo's instead of people who cry when something isnt easy for them to accomplish. Hats off to bioware for getting patch 1.2 right on the pve side, now if they would just fix the pvp aspect of it...

Bioware PLEASE DONT NERF Denova!!!!! This has been the most challenge our guild has had in weeks. We've managed to clear all content except finishing KP on Nightmare. Our first night in Denova we wiped to the first boss for about 2 hours. After 3 more nights we managed to clear the place although every fight was super sloppy on our part but that's the point we still need to learn a lot about all the mechanics.

 

We can't wait to get in there for the hard mode. I really hope you add in more bosses for nightmare or at least a single bonus boss. So far we haven't had any real game breaking bugs in this ops which is nice but there is definitely a LOT more trash. Its not nearly the kind of trash that they put in Raids in WoW but its a definite increase from EV/KP.

 

Can we get trash mobs to drop a little bit different loot I mean I like getting the random Implant/Earpiece but that gets old. I mean how about some random purples with a more random stat distribution on it or maybe a Companion Set that is mean for specific companion types? Just a few thoughts thanks for making the game fun again.

the problem is not that EC is too difficult, KP / EV were way too easy (even in nightmare) and people got used to brainafk faceroll the whole content.

 

bioware should go this way further.. don't nerf the new operation!

 

i guess that bioware will nerf the new operation once nightmare mode is avaiable or 1.3 will get us the other half of the new raid-tier.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Elfstrom

Go play wow if you want easymode. quit qqing

Wiping all night is fun for you, don't presume it's fun for everyone else.

 

But here's the thing I don't understand. If you want to wipe all night, do hardmode and nightmare when it comes out. Why you all are demanding story mode be for the "hardcores" is beyond me. You are NOT the target audience for this content. Story mode is made for people who like "easy mode crap" as you put it. Stop demanding that everything be about YOU.

 

The "hardcores" blow through story mode content on live. The only people struggling are the target audience. If you want content to faceroll go clear ev/kp until next tier is released, then you can roll through EC. Raiding isn't a loot giveaway. It takes effort, and coordination. Bioware really **** the bed on the first tier, and they know that. That also doesn't mean you should get used to that difficulty because it's not actual raiding.

 

Best of luck downing content.

I am not so certain. If only 10% of players or less are able to do the new ops content (and Flashpoint for that matter) then it likely will be re-tuned to something more do-able by the average player. After all the average player is the majority of the Bioware SWTOR paying customers. Way it goes for better or worst usually.

 

For the majority of players there is the majority of flashpoints. Why the hardcore people cant have at least one?!

that way everyone happy.

Note im not even an hardcore, but im glad there is something in this game hard enough that only some people can get it done, it gives will to one to get it done eventualy and achieve one day the completion of that flashpoint.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Spartanik

There is something fantastic, previous tier people were all saying that it was too easy. Now it is too hard ... The only difficulty is too be coordinated. If you can't you have to improve your gameplay and adapt. Most people have lost this capacity of adaptation.

 

Come on people, for once it's challenging. Don't look on the loots, the aim of a game is not to be geared it's to be challenged and to succeed in it. For that you need to put some effort in it if not it's not interesting.

 

The difficulty is fine, it's not for hardcore gamers. Before TOR was released people hoped to have a game that will be challenging. We are beggining to have one don't kill PVE on TOR with QQing. You QQed on PVP look what it brought.

Kind of reminds me when Ulduar was released after so many facerolling months of lolNaxx 2.0 ... well, I just hope Bioware continues the trend of making raids more difficult (not to mention bug-free and fun) as time goes on. When "that other MMO" caved in to the "epics-for-all" crowd, the slippery slope of constant nerfs and constant demands quickly followed

 

So far, so good, I say. For a second tier of raiding content Explosive Conflict is definitely a step forward.

The point of this <insertcoolstorybro> is this: Nerfing Denova is not the answer. Practice, patience, and the right group of people willing to trudge through the muck of it is.

 

You hit the nail on the head. The right group of people willing to trudge through it. People are paying money to be entertained not go on long tedious walks through a raid. This whole notion that you must suffer through the content to "earn" your gear is simply bizzare.

Don't look on the loots, the aim of a game is not to be geared it's to be challenged and to succeed in it.

 

No the aim of the game is to entertain people, is it really that hard to understand that not all people are entertained the same way?

Wiping all night is fun for you, don't presume it's fun for everyone else.

 

But here's the thing I don't understand. If you want to wipe all night, do hardmode and nightmare when it comes out. Why you all are demanding story mode be for the "hardcores" is beyond me. You are NOT the target audience for this content. Story mode is made for people who like "easy mode crap" as you put it. Stop demanding that everything be about YOU.

 

We are by no means hardcore and we got it done in 2 nights. Once you master the mechanics its easy. The only real tuff part is the bombadiers on the last boss, they create a pretty tight enrage, that may be the only part that is slightly overtuned.

No the aim of the game is to entertain people, is it really that hard to understand that not all people are entertained the same way?

 

I'm entertained! Guess it's just not the right game for you.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!

 

...sorry I watched Gladiator last week