I've been playing this game since the day of release. If this game goes F2P and puts in microtransactions, what will the past subscribers get? Will they have to pay for them too? Or do they get them for free?

I dont want some new player buying all of them and then getting better stuff than me, and is further ahead than me in 2 weeks than all of my stuff put together in 6 months. Would they just leave everyone to buy microtransactions or will old players be rewarded or something? Not that im asking for free items, I am simply asking what people think will happen.

The game isnt going free 2 play... God people are daft.

Can you please link me your source where it shows its never going F2P? Thanks

Can you please link me your source where it shows its never going F2P? Thanks

That's called a misplaced burden of proof, and it's a fallacious argument. Try again.

That's called a misplaced burden of proof, and it's a fallacious argument. Try again.

Good answer.

Oh and to answer the question: take a look at STO and how they've done it: so you can either use the item shop to buy each asset (extra bank slots, extra char slots, char rename, uniforms, extra payable species etc) individually

- OR -

you can continue to pay a 15$ per month sub fee and you get all those things for free and some in-game currency also for free to use in the item shop

So basically it shuts up every one of those "OMG MICROTRANSATIONS, I QUIT!" guys, by offering them a normal sub fee for which they gain access to all the features normal users have to pay for or work hard in-game to achieve.

That way everyone's happy.

Oh and to answer the question: take a look at STO and how they've done it: so you can either use the item shop to buy each asset (extra bank slots, extra char slots, char rename, uniforms, extra payable species etc) individually

- OR -

you can continue to pay a 15$ per month sub fee and you get all those things for free and some in-game currency also for free to use in the item shop

So basically it shuts up every one of those "OMG MICROTRANSATIONS, I QUIT!" guys, by offering them a normal sub fee for which they gain access to all the features normal users have to pay for or work hard in-game to achieve.

That way everyone's happy.

At same time, some games offer only a part of the content for sub people and they still need to pay some for another part.

Subs are strong. They have opened up 1 - 15 limited play like every other mmo does as a way to encourage new players. That is the closest to f2p it gets.

The game fails whether you, me of Johnny McFlamer wants it or not. Most people posting on these forums are doing so because they care. If they didn't they would have just unsubbed and left. So those people want the game to get better, more popular and so on. It is their way to express their ideas. The important thing is that they are sticking around.

Subs clearly didn't work out for TOR. And I don't want to hear about "it is normal for people to leave after the initial launch hype."

Sure, if your game is really THAT good, people will find it worth paying for it and stay for months, but most of them didn't.

With the transfers now open, there are ~10 servers on NA and Europe with >= standard population. Every other server is dead.

Were there too many servers on launch? Gosh, I remember a few months back when every one of those servers had at least standard population. So the server number increase was justified. But after that, more than half of the subscriber base has left. It is made clear by the fact that with the transfers, around 20% of the total number of servers have decent population. Where did the 80% go? Sure a game can lose half of the subscribers after the first hype months, but not more than half !

And you guys saying "if you don't like it, leave", do you really want that to happen? Because the population is thin as it is. With even more people leaving it means more lost money. Every 100 players that leave, take ~1500 $ with them, monthly. And that is just for 100 players.

And you are still encouraging people to leave without this game eventually going f2p in order to survive?

Most people have tried the free weekends and the friend trials. Most of them. The last free weekends barely attracted people (there was no significant increase in server population). What makes you think that adding an unlimited 1-15 "trial" would do any better? Because it is basically the same thing.

Those who were curious about TOR, experienced the trial months ago, during the free weekends. There are very few people left, with an actual interest in this game, who haven't tried it already.

Do you really care what happens to TOR, or would you rather see it dead than go a business model that will attract new players? Because this game won't last long with you and the 100 other people paying for it a few months from now.

The game fails whether you, me of Johnny McFlamer wants it or not. Most people posting on these forums are doing so because they care. If they didn't they would have just unsubbed and left. So those people want the game to get better, more popular and so on. It is their way to express their ideas. The important thing is that they are sticking around.

Subs clearly didn't work out for TOR. And I don't want to hear about "it is normal for people to leave after the initial launch hype."

 

Sure, if your game is really THAT good, people will find it worth paying for it and stay for months, but most of them didn't.

 

With the transfers now open, there are ~10 servers on NA and Europe with >= standard population. Every other server is dead.

 

Were there too many servers on launch? Gosh, I remember a few months back when every one of those servers had at least standard population. So the server number increase was justified. But after that, more than half of the subscriber base has left. It is made clear by the fact that with the transfers, around 20% of the total number of servers have decent population. Where did the 80% go? Sure a game can lose half of the subscribers after the first hype months, but not more than half !

 

And you guys saying "if you don't like it, leave", do you really want that to happen? Because the population is thin as it is. With even more people leaving it means more lost money.

And you are still encouraging people to leave without this game eventually going f2p in order to survive?

This game isnt going free to play to survive... There has not been any mention of that... People harping on about omg make this game f2p already are just doomsayers who arnt even giving the game a chance... And to be honost it just annoys te hell out of people who enjoy this game....

There has been 0 signs that this game needs to go f2p to 'survive' if youthink there has you clearly have no understanding of the mmo genre. The last stated 1.3 mil subs is a much larger population then 90% of mmos out there... Not to mention the game is only 6 months or so old. Most mmos take years to build up a stable player base. So far the only crowd we have lost is the people testing the watersto see if thia game was for them... It wasnt, so tey went back to COD or whatever holds the attention of those people.

While it certainly possible to adapt any game to a free to play model, i does help is design from the start to fit that model. Like other mmo that started out as P2P and end up as F2P, the model feel akward, unfair even for some.

most MMO player expect a few thing from their mmo that

- They can access anything in game, the only barrier should be gear or skill or even time but not money.

- You can obtain anything in game by playing the game, not using a credit card.

- fair play and equality between player, a player should not be much more powerfull because he can buy stuff.

Games are the great equalizer. whatever your social class, your job, age, sex or ethnicity, in the game, we're all equal, the best one win (or at least the one who invest himself/herself more in the game). Microtransaction somewhat upset this balance, hence so many people on these forums are uneasy about it.

This game isnt going free to play to survive... There has not been any mention of that... People harping on about omg make this game f2p already are just doomsayers who arnt even giving the game a chance... And to be honost it just annoys te hell out of people who enjoy this game....

All I have to say is this: look at the player numbers in-game. Look at how crowded the ~100 North American servers were in the first few months. And now 10 are left with >= standard population. How can you seriously think that this is not a reason for concern, even from a business standpoint of a developer?

And if we do simple math:

aprox. 200 crowded servers at launch (Europe+North America)

aprox. 20 crowded servers today (Europe+North America)

That means that ~90% of the playerbase left. And there is NO reason for concern? Okay...

There has been 0 signs that this game needs to go f2p to 'survive' if youthink there has you clearly have no understanding of the mmo genre. The last stated 1.3 mil subs is a much larger population then 90% of mmos out there...

Remember that first of all that announcement was made in April.

Second, remember that there are many people (including myself) who are benefiting from the free 30 days offered as a promotion after patch 1.2. These players also count towards the number of total subscribers.

Not to mention the game is only 6 months or so old. Most mmos take years to build up a stable player base. So far the only crowd we have lost is the people testing the watersto see if thia game was for them... It wasnt, so tey went back to COD or whatever holds the attention of those people.

The vast majority of players lose interest in a game after the first few months. Very few have the patience to wait 1 year for a game to become good.

By that time most of them would've moved to a different game already.

Bottom line is if you haven't been able to convince people to stay after the initial launch hype, chances that you will do so after 1 friggin' year are very, very slim?

Let's face it, TOR peaked 4 months ago.

Old subs get access to exciting new 110% speed mounts at discounted credit.

Cash shop customers can use SWTORCash and buy exciting items like 150% speeder mounts. Triple and double augment slot kit that adds 3/2 augment slots to any equip-able items premium quality or greater. Core slot kit that adds a 2nd color crystal slot to any weapon that let u customize the "core" color and the plasma color. Campaign Master And Elite Warlord gear sets ect.

Pretty typical cash shop system.

All I have to say is this: look at the player numbers in-game. Look at how crowded the ~100 North American servers were in the first few months. And now 10 are left with >= standard population. How can you seriously think that this is not a reason for concern, even from a business standpoint of a developer?

 

And if we do simple math:

aprox. 200 crowded servers at launch (Europe+North America)

aprox. 20 crowded servers today (Europe+North America)

That means that ~90% of the playerbase left. And there is NO reason for concern? Okay...

 

 

 

Remember that first of all that announcement was made in April.

Second, remember that there are many people (including myself) who are benefiting from the free 30 days offered as a promotion after patch 1.2. These players also count towards the number of total subscribers.

 

 

 

The vast majority of players lose interest in a game after the first few months. Very few have the patience to wait 1 year for a game to become good.

By that time most of them would've moved to a different game already.

 

Bottom line is if you haven't been able to convince people to stay after the initial launch hype, chances that you will do so after 1 friggin' year are very, very slim?

Let's face it, TOR peaked 4 months ago.

By your logic then every game is doomed to fail one month after release... Just because you think the game peaked 4 months ago doesnt make it true. I think 4 months ago there were a bunch of people who just wernt that into the game and had the patience of a flee (which equates to approx 85% of gamers to date). Just because they left doesnt make what you say true. This game hasnt peaked... You actually have no solid evidence to support that.

Transfers have happened now and they are starting to consolidate things. 1.3 brings many bug fixes and graphic/fps fixes. Lfg tool on the way... You have no idea how this will affect the player base eiter negitivly or positivly... But with improvements to thegame the chances are it will be more positive then negative...

All I have to say is this: look at the player numbers in-game. Look at how crowded the ~100 North American servers were in the first few months. And now 10 are left with >= standard population. How can you seriously think that this is not a reason for concern, even from a business standpoint of a developer?

 

And if we do simple math:

aprox. 200 crowded servers at launch (Europe+North America)

aprox. 20 crowded servers today (Europe+North America)

That means that ~90% of the playerbase left. And there is NO reason for concern? Okay...

i think there are several contributing factor you are not accounting for.

For instance, when you get a new toy, you play with it a lot. Then after a while, you don't play with it as much but you don't necessarly throw it.

When i got my first smartphone, i played with it a lot, but after a while, it's now just a phone in my pocket, but i didn't throw it. There are many analogy can be made but you get the idea, shiny new equal lot of people connected. Even if people don't connect in game, doesn't mean they unsub

Heck, i haven't played WoW for 4 month, i'm still subbed (because of the annual pass).

The FTP levels 1-15 is essentially the 7 day buddy pass, except now new players can try it even if they don't already have a playing friend. I heard precious few complaints that the buddy pass 7-day trial giving players the ability to play for free was somehow the end of the world.

With no evidence that the game will go outright FTP, just purely the speculation of the original poster, it would likely be handled in the manner SOE does their FTP games. Subscription Option for unlimited play (the same as what we get right now, in exchange for the same as what we're paying) or freeplay with restrictions.

Popular restrictions of Freeplay Games are:

A wallet cap, or maximum number of credits you are allowed to possess/use.

Reduced number of character slots, probably something like 2 per server rather than 8.

Lack of ability to trade player to player.

Lack of ability to mail items/currency from player to player.

Smaller inventory and bank (Cargo Hold) space.

Caps on Tradeskills (either being allowed a lower number, 1 instead of 3 for example, or having them cap at a lower skill level, such as not being permitted to exceed 300).

Restrictions of Race and Class options.

In short, they get the MMO Lite version, while subscribers continue to get the full game. The FTP model encourages players to join even if they fit a more casual play lifestyle, perhaps only playing a few days per month. The Marketplace then sells the core gaming package features a la carte, allowing you to purchase additional races or classes, only paying for the parts of the game that you will use rather than paying monthly for the entire package.

Old subs will recieve... the exact same thing they have been recieving, and nothing more.

The issue is not about the game but about the MMO market. There have been threads here already on the forum with links and I read the interview where they explained that they are looking into f2p options and why.

With all the f2p MMO's out there, the market is under pressure. These f2p's are getting better in quality and have no subs. Also this is a time where many new MMOs are coming out. SWTOR will be followed by The Secret World in a week or two, TERA is out, Guild Wars 2 is close and later this year Neverwinter. I am sure there may be more.

What we see now is market saturation. Too many games as a whole and too many f2p's as well. Look at Guild Wars 2 that will have no sub either.

Now before you jump all over this, please note that I am for the sub model and I think most of this games will not be able to match what SWTOR has done. Sure SWTOR has bugs and needs more features, but it's growing and it is turning out to be a really good game.

Still, the issue is that we have got the new generation of entitled people it seems who want everything now and for free. This is the generation that spits on subs that cost about 150 bucks a year and rather play a free game where they will be constantly enticed to spend money in a cash shop and end up paying double of that. F2P isn't free, it just has no subs.

Sad as it may be (wizard's first rule), people rather have the illussion of freedom and then paying double the price than actually think about what they are spending money on and realise what the best deal is.

If SWTOR under this market pressure ends up deciding they need to go to a f2p model, my sincere hope is that the sub model will still be an option and that the cash shop doesn't turn into a pay 2 win situation.

I want to be able to pay my sub and have all the game has to offer. I will only accept a cash shop that offers cosmetics and services and obviously the stuff that people will have to pay for who don't have a sub.

Just don't want to deal with ingame advertising and don't want a cash shop button in my UI (unless I can hide it from view). Let the f2p crowd pay real cash for inventory, speeders and instance cooldowns for all I care. But don't screw over the sub payers in the process is all I'm saying. I suppose if you have lower standards for a game then you could technically do without, but that's not what I would want.

Subs are cheaper than f2p games if you want the full game experience. Sadly the market is full if people who can't see that and stare themselves blind on the f in f2p.

TL;DR F2P isn't free. The real problem is stupid people and consequently the market putting pressure on subs as a whole.

Regardless, losing ninety percent of your player base in a matter of months is not good news for any company.

Losing half of you sub base is okay (even though it means -50% income), but losing 9/10 is worrying to say the least.

Yes, this game peaked. 200 high pop servers 4 months ago, 20 high pop servers today worldwide. It is pretty obvious that it, by definition, peaked. What more proof do you need?

And like I said, many do not have the patience to wait 1 year for a game to become good.

Players move on from one game to another. Many of those you loose, you can't get back. If the game wasn't able to keep them playing after the hyped launch months, most of them won't be back 1 year later.

Some may return, but the current population trend is descending. So, in best case scenario for every 1 player that leaves, 1 till take his place. It will never go back to Dec, Jan and Feb numbers. There is no mmo in history that recovered such a high amount of subs.

Once the snowball starts rolling downhill, you can't do anything to stop it, only to slow it down. Subscriptions are dropping and that is a fact proven by websites and the in-game population.

What? F2p games are bad? They are attracting most players, many of them coming from TOR and other p2p games. With the quantity of such games increasing, the numbers of people who pay a sub fee decreases as a direct result. It is a logical conclusion.

Or to be a blunt: "Once you've lost a customer, for whatever reason, it is very unlikely that you will gain him back."

No matter how much you want to kid yourselves, TOR is not the juggernaut you think it is. And it is not that successful any longer.

And transfers and a LFG tool won't bring back a part of the 90% lost playerbase.

Can you please link me your source where it shows its never going F2P? Thanks

their is no link its common sence.....

their is no link its common sence.....

They once said that about City of Heroes....true story

The issue is not about the game but about the MMO market. There have been threads here already on the forum with links and I read the interview where they explained that they are looking into f2p options and why.

 

With all the f2p MMO's out there, the market is under pressure. These f2p's are getting better in quality and have no subs. Also this is a time where many new MMOs are coming out. SWTOR will be followed by The Secret World in a week or two, TERA is out, Guild Wars 2 is close and later this year Neverwinter. I am sure there may be more.

 

What we see now is market saturation. Too many games as a whole and too many f2p's as well. Look at Guild Wars 2 that will have no sub either.

 

Now before you jump all over this, please note that I am for the sub model and I think most of this games will not be able to match what SWTOR has done. Sure SWTOR has bugs and needs more features, but it's growing and it is turning out to be a really good game.

 

Still, the issue is that we have got the new generation of entitled people it seems who want everything now and for free. This is the generation that spits on subs that cost about 150 bucks a year and rather play a free game where they will be constantly enticed to spend money in a cash shop and end up paying double of that. F2P isn't free, it just has no subs.

 

Sad as it may be (wizard's first rule), people rather have the illussion of freedom and then paying double the price than actually think about what they are spending money on and realise what the best deal is.

 

If SWTOR under this market pressure ends up deciding they need to go to a f2p model, my sincere hope is that the sub model will still be an option and that the cash shop doesn't turn into a pay 2 win situation.

 

I want to be able to pay my sub and have all the game has to offer. I will only accept a cash shop that offers cosmetics and services and obviously the stuff that people will have to pay for who don't have a sub.

 

Just don't want to deal with ingame advertising and don't want a cash shop button in my UI (unless I can hide it from view). Let the f2p crowd pay real cash for inventory, speeders and instance cooldowns for all I care. But don't screw over the sub payers in the process is all I'm saying. I suppose if you have lower standards for a game then you could technically do without, but that's not what I would want.

 

Subs are cheaper than f2p games if you want the full game experience. Sadly the market is full if people who can't see that and stare themselves blind on the f in f2p.

 

TL;DR F2P isn't free. The real problem is stupid people and consequently the market putting pressure on subs as a whole.

10 points for a well written post and another 5 for the terry goodkind reference.

TL;DR F2P isn't free. The real problem is stupid people and consequently the market putting pressure on subs as a whole.

Oh yes it is free. I've been playing STO and LoL for 1+ years now and I have never felt the need to purchase anything in game and I have no disadvantage from the paying playerbase.

Because there is no advantage to be had by paying. Just convenience. But when you meet another player face to face, he is just as strong as you.

Most of my friends and colleagues, guild members have invested exactly jack in these games. Do they feel the need to start spending money? No.

Don't give me the Asian f2p mmo example. Because we can all agree that it is bad. But not the f2p model. Just the way it was implemented.

And don't talk about the f2p games pressuring the sub fee models.

If the p2p games were really worth the money they are asking for, players would have stuck around. But they aren't anymore.

It's not the gamer's fault that f2p is gaining an advantage. It is the p2p games' fault that they are in very few ways better than their free competition.

There is a saying, somewhat related to this: Times are changing. And leaders who refuse to change with them will no longer be leaders.

The game isnt going free 2 play... God people are daft.

Well, not if it's in line of the inevitability of Peter Moore. And I agree with him on that.

I'm not saying SWTOR is going f2p within the upcoming 3 months, or even next year. But 5 years from now it definitely won't be subscription based only anymore; and any game still relying on such a dated model will fail to thrive against the microtransaction market overwhelming it.

Sure it'll piss of the handful of hardcore gamers, but the millions of players who are spending even more now on webgames and facebook games will disagree; and its their money which will ultimately be interesting publishers more.

Regardless, losing ninety percent of your player base in a matter of months is not good news for any company.

Losing half of you sub base is okay (even though it means -50% income), but losing 9/10 is worrying to say the least.

.

Ok stop right there. Show me 100% hard evidence that the game has lost 90% of its subscribers. Hell show me that it has even lost 50% of it's active subscribers.

If you can do that continue if not then stop talking right now and stop spreading false information.