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Cunning vs. Power


Talyndor

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All of my augments are cunning augments.....well, I was running a HM FP with someone who said my cunning was too high, and I should be about 2050 unbuffed, and I should have more power, closer to 1000, which I could accomplish by replacing cunning with power augments.

What is the consensus on this? I thought cunning augments were the way to go, even over power....or is there a soft cap on cunning after which you should indeed start working power augments into your gear.

UN-BUFFED...my cunning is at 2192, power at 613 and tech power at 1346. Then there are + ### after those stats. I did not know if I should include those or not (e.g., my Tech Healing Bonus reads cunning 2191: + (306.9).

Thoughts?

Edited by Talyndor
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You should definitely stick with the cunning augments, are the mods that you are using lettered (ex. Advanced ???? Mod 26A) because all of your mods should be the plain mod (Advanced ???? Mod 26) since with the lettered, you gain a small amount of the mainstat and endurance but you lose a lot of power/crit.
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There is no right or wrong build for the operative, in terms of power and cunning.

 

It is depends on your preference as a player. I'm an operative healer, and I prefer to go with cunning. Let me explain briefly.

 

The main options to choose between are a higher healing bonus, or a higher critical chance. By going for higher cunning, you will gain an increased critical chance, while still contributing to healing bonus. However, by going with power, you will gain an increased healing bonus (compared to stacking cunning) and have a drop in your critical chance.

 

At the end of the day, by maximising on cunning, you will lose around 30 or so points in bonus healing and gain around 2.5% in critical chance, from memory. This is all at max level PvE gear.

 

Just remember that your critical chance (not including the cunning bonus) should be around 350, then go for surge rating. Some people say that surge has a soft cap as well, then to move onto alacrity, but I tend to ignore this, as I believe that alacrity is more trouble than it is worth. It forces you to use more energy/second without any regenerative capabilities. This means, either more time in between heals, or run out of energy quicker if you hold the same pace/rotations.

 

I think that mostly made sense, but let me know if anything needs clarifying.

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Cunning all the way imho.

Medic - Cunning for sure - HoTs critting all the time then

Lethality - same with DoTs

Concealment - only here i'd maybe discuss a bit increased Power on behalf of Cunning

 

I have (buffed) 2350 Cunning and 900 power. I play either medic or lethality - so this goes fine with me.

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Swapping out an entire suite of augments in current BiS will give you 2.7 bonus healing for power or 1.25% crit chance for all cunning

1.25% crit on an averaged basis is better, however you will never "feel" the difference.

In non-augment stuff you go for the pieces with less endurance while still on the same tier. It has very little to do with the power/cunning relationship. For armorings this means getting high cunning ones, for mods this means picking up the higher power/crit mods.

Do the same with enhancements too ofc

 

As an operative currently approaching 2500 cunning, the person in your group was full of **** and parroting something he heard a powertech saying about aim. There is theoretical softcap on cunning somewhere in the region of 6000 cunning. By the time we're anywhere near that I'd say we'll have had stats completely revamped.

 

For your own referance here's a BiS operative healer.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0b92fd2a-19a8-43c0-b620-b183ad13d690

 

(In case your dps, change the alacrity for more surge and change the set bonuses appropriately)

Edited by CaptainApop
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Thanks for your replies. Ill stay where I am. (and I am a healer, btw).

Buffed I am at 2314 cunning....add a exotech stim and I am at 2442. I like those numbers, as well. I shall be more careful what people tell me. :)

Edited by Talyndor
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Operatives (both healers and dps) also get big bonuses to critical hits on commonly used abilities (+30% on kolto injection and recuperative nanotech or +30% to backstab, hidden strike, and acid blade). In a one-point-for-one-point swap cunning should always be better.
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Don't trust people just because what they say sounds good in your ears, ask for proof like parser logs when they compare the different stats or ask for a SimCraft link. Normally people have "heard" something and spreads it without even knowing that it is false, they are just so convinced that they swallow the lie whole.
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The stat weights do not need a parser. Unless you don't believe the the long established values the community uses.

 

Cunning is ALWAYS better than power at a 1 to 1 ratio. We get a 9% bonus available to all specs (Best in the Game)

 

Plus the inquis buff giving you a massive 14% increase. Not to mention crit from cunning is on a separate curve from regular crit.

 

After reading your post more thoroughly, what the guy in the FP is suggesting is dropping the high endurance mods and enhancements. Although he is a little confused when he says your cunning s too high, the problem is the endurance. The high secondary stat mods and enhancements give up some cunning and endurance for power. But the ratio is not 1 to 1 power for cunning because you are also giving up endurance. So you end up with more healing/dps done with the high secondary stat mods. Aka the +40 power mod, same applies for enhancements. The ones with higher endurance is always *******r for DPS/Heals

 

That doesn't change the fact that cunning augments ARE ALWAYS better than overkill for an Op because the exchange is 1 C for 1 P. As opposed to the uneven exchange rate you get by swapping to the high power mods.

Edited by Mookind
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Cunning also improves your secondary stats. Even if its just a little, its still better to augment for cunning than power.

 

Still optimize for power in your mods/enchancements though.

 

oh I don't know. I augment for cunning and I lose a bunch of bonus dmg. So... conventional wisdom be ****ed!

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oh I don't know. I augment for cunning and I lose a bunch of bonus dmg. So... conventional wisdom be ****ed!

 

It's not the idea that cunning by itself has more bonus damage, it's the fact that cunning augments in balance with crit rating will give you more bonus damage than pure power and crit rating.

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oh I don't know. I augment for cunning and I lose a bunch of bonus dmg. So... conventional wisdom be ****ed!

 

Hehe, no arguing with you buddy. You put out the kick-***** guide so hats off to you.

 

Cunning also improves your secondary stats. Even if its just a little, its still better to augment for cunning than power.

 

Still optimize for power in your mods/enchancements though.

 

Forget what this idiot said. Follow Hallow's guide.

Edited by randiesel
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FOR THOSE INTERESTED.

 

I am a power augment operative healer.

I've always stuck to power augments cuz i liked it.

 

A post on the first page saying that it improves bonus healing by 4.9 and crit chance by 0.1 is what cost me to buy augments at 700k. (excluding getting my power augments out at 6k x14).

 

Now I found out he is lying.

(This is ofcourse, a pvp healer speaking, not a pve healer. though soon i will be too)

 

What I did find out with perfectly min maxed combo of WH/EWH gear, is that my Bonus Healing went DOWN with 5.8 from 675.6 to 669.8 but my crit chance went up with 1.32%(!!) from 38.43% to 39.75%.

I'm happy i made the transition. 5.8 bonus healing doesn't weigh up with 1.32% crit chance.

 

 

 

tldr;

 

Cunning augments > Power augments.

Edited by Aerilas
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My stats:

 

Bonus Tech Dmg:

Cunning - 1969 = + 393.8

Power - 928 = + 213.4

Tech Power - 1346 = + 309.6

Buffs - + 45.8

Total 962.6

 

Crit:

Cunning 1969 - + 12.41

Crit 173 - + 6.88

Base - + 5

Buff - + 9

Total 33.3

 

 

1 Cunning = .2 Bonus Dmg

1 Cunning = .0397% Crit

1 Power = .23 Bonus Dmg

1 Crit = .0398%

 

Test this yourself, but this is what i have found. Cunning is not as important until you hit DR. Or your trying to fine tune your stats.

Edited by Carnaje
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My stats:

 

Bonus Tech Dmg:

Cunning - 1969 = + 393.8

Power - 928 = + 213.4

Tech Power - 1346 = + 309.6

Buffs - + 45.8

Total 962.6

 

Crit:

Cunning 1969 - + 12.41

Crit 173 - + 6.88

Base - + 5

Buff - + 9

Total 33.3

 

 

1 Cunning = .2 Bonus Dmg

1 Cunning = .0397% Crit

1 Power = .23 Bonus Dmg

1 Crit = .0398%

 

Test this yourself, but this is what i have found. Cunning is not as important until you hit DR. Or your trying to fine tune your stats.

 

your math's I likes.

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understood. I just balanced my gear around 35 percent crit. then stacked power. so I can understand the difference.

 

LoL you do not understand how gear works

 

To be clear if you want 35% crit, just drop crit from your enhancements and mods for power. Not augments.

 

Damn where do these people come from

Edited by Mookind
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LoL you do not understand how gear works

 

To be clear if you want 35% crit, just drop crit from your enhancements and mods for power. Not augments.

 

Damn where do these people come from

 

Change your mods for crit depending on amount needed. Stack power. Adjust augments if needed to cunnning. Stack surge. Right?

Edited by Carnaje
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Change your mods for crit depending on amount needed. Stack power. Adjust augments if needed to cunnning. Stack surge. Right?

 

Augments should always be cunning for ideal stats (though you can get close to ideal with other stats in augments). All balancing of crit and power should come from mods/enhancements.

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1 Cunning = .2 Bonus Dmg

1 Cunning = .0397% Crit

1 Power = .23 Bonus Dmg

1 Crit = .0398%

 

Test this yourself, but this is what i have found. Cunning is not as important until you hit DR. Or your trying to fine tune your stats.

 

a) I have stated the following a billion times (approximately) in other threads.

b) You are ops. I'm a scoundrel. I have to kill you so this isn't helping me.

c) Given the above...

 

Your maths is faulty because of a factor you haven't taken into account. Each point of Cunning you get from gearing is boosted by talents and buffs to get the value on your character sheet.

You should (if you have an ounce of sense) take the 9% talent boost to Cunning from the bottom of the healing tree. You can also depend on getting the 5% boost to Cunning (and other main stats) from the Consular/Inquisitor class buff. This means Cunning on your char sheet is 14% (9+5) greater than what you get from your gear.

Hence the bonus damage you get from Cunning on gear, as it's a straight line without diminishing returns =

0.2 * 1.14 = 0.228

 

Yes folks, accounting for the stat buffs you should have at all times, bonus damage from each point of Cunning on gear is 0.228.

This is less than the 0.23 bonus damage from a point of Power - but only by a hair's breadth (0.002 bonus damage per point). And then Cunning gives you a nice boost to crit chance, that is on a separate DR curve to the crit chance you get from Crit stat.

 

This is why Cunning is better than Power, for any value of Cunning we are going to see for a long, long time. It has been explained many times and isn't hard to discover or understand. Yet still I see people saying Power is better for Scoundrel/Ops. It isn't.

 

I post this in a spirit of comradeship with my mirror class. In a world filled with drooling glowstick-wielders, we all need every edge we can get. But please don't make me post it again.

Edited by Wainamoinen
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FOR THOSE INTERESTED.

 

A post on the first page saying that it improves bonus healing by 4.9 and crit chance by 0.1 is what cost me to buy augments at 700k. (excluding getting my power augments out at 6k x14).

 

Now I found out he is lying.

 

For the record, lying requires me to be deliberately misleading you. I made a typo.

I'm also relatively certain you misread MY post. I said cunning had a slightly higher crit chance and power had a slightly higher bonus healing. Not that one or the other had both. And I was advocating cunning augments...

 

here's a cunning aug'd BiS operative

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0b92fd2a-19a8-43c0-b620-b183ad13d690

 

here's a power aug'd BiS operative

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/80c79ed1-34af-4f21-bdfb-3b9b072b96be

 

Cunning one has a tech crit chance 1.25% higher while power one has a bonus healing 2.7 higher.

 

You still aren't going to feel or notice the difference so my point still stands :p

Though I have corrected the numbers in my original post.

 

PS: Why are you people breaking out calculators and buying in game augments when there is a character builder available for side-by-side comparison?

Edited by CaptainApop
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