For me, it's more story I don't care about, 5 more levels which are pointless since you'll just be back to standing around on fleet waiting for a queue again once you finish (which isn't going to be much, it's only 1 planet). So no, I don't support it for these reasons amongst others. However I feel I'm forced into buying it due to the reasons of end game. Since the Ops are getting moved "up" in level if I chose to raid (which I'm not a huge fan of but still do it from time to time with my friends), I have to buy this.

 

They also haven't said how the PvP bracket will work. Is it going to be 1-49 and then 50-55 or are they going to go with a 1-54 and then a 55 bracket? What about a better time table, "spring" isn't very good especially when they originally stated "fall" and then after "fall" was over they changed their minds to "It'll be ready when we think it's "Bioware Quality" (cause clearly they've done such an outstanding job in this department /sarcasm). These are important questions I would like answered before I give them any money and support it in any way. I want to know WHAT I'm buying just like any other video game tells their customers when they offer a pre-order. If Bioware wanted us to blindly give us money based off the faith they'd need to give us something to base that faith off of and so far they have zero faith left in me.

I was about to start a thread about how I was anticipating the new expansion, little content or a lot. I felt that for $10 it was a no brainer to buy the digital expansion. Heck, I paid for all the expansions for other stupid games like Sims 3, and majority of that content was fluff, really. So for me, principle or not, I like to play the game, I was happy with HK-51 release and other event, a little dissatisfied, but glad they did not have a Life Day (Christmas) event, so I will pay for the expansion.

 

I do agree with the OP that majority of MMOs are redirecting efforts to the F2P market, because frankly it draws in a much larger crowd, makes more money and you don't really have to rely on a subscriber base.

 

Unfortunately the problem as I see in the Swtor crowd as with other MMOs that transition from Subscription based to F2P, is their inability to cope with the change of direction and I am not surprised about this. Me, I don't really consider the Cartel Market as a nickel and diming thing, and if I did I would also have to be opposed to buying stuff while I'm at theme parks or movie theaters.

I'm about through supporting this game based on hope.

 

Pretty much where I now stand. As a result, as of yesterday the subscription ends on Dec 24th (I'm just finishing off the final 2 levels in a Class story between now and then), Funcom got $30 from me for TSW, and SOE got $20 from me for the DCUO Station Cash.

 

I chose to spend $50 yesterday between two other MMO developers than a mere $10 here to EA for RoTHC. Instead of giving EA the $15/mo, I will likely be giving it to Funcon or SOE.

 

EA has had its chance, and the past several weeks have been clear that I can no longer support this game, even in bits and pieces. I really like SWTOR, don't get me wrong. But I do not agree with where EA appears to be taking it, and that is the deal breaker.

 

And it isn't about it going F2P in itself. I've been with DCUO since launch and it transitioned to F2P in its first year, too. But I stuck by it and have yet to regret it. Funcom just sent TSW into the B2P market (subscription optional). So, it isn't the model. It is, however, how EA is handling the model.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Jumajin

Pretty much where I now stand. As a result, as of yesterday the subscription ends on Dec 24th (I'm just finishing off the final 2 levels in a Class story between now and then), Funcom got $30 from me for TSW, and SOE got $20 from me for the DCUO Station Cash.

 

I chose to spend $50 yesterday between two other MMO developers than a mere $10 here to EA for RoTHC. Instead of giving EA the $15/mo, I will likely be giving it to Funcon or SOE.

 

EA has had its chance, and the past several weeks have been clear that I can no longer support this game, even in bits and pieces. I really like SWTOR, don't get me wrong. But I do not agree with where EA appears to be taking it, and that is the deal breaker.

 

And it isn't about it going F2P in itself. I've been with DCUO since launch and it transitioned to F2P in its first year, too. But I stuck by it and have yet to regret it. Funcom just sent TSW into the B2P market (subscription optional). So, it isn't the model. It is, however, how EA is handling the model.

 

If you haven't heard EA co-published TSW with Funcom...

Pretty much where I now stand. As a result, as of yesterday the subscription ends on Dec 24th (I'm just finishing off the final 2 levels in a Class story between now and then), Funcom got $30 from me for TSW, and SOE got $20 from me for the DCUO Station Cash.

 

I chose to spend $50 yesterday between two other MMO developers than a mere $10 here to EA for RoTHC. Instead of giving EA the $15/mo, I will likely be giving it to Funcon or SOE.

 

EA has had its chance, and the past several weeks have been clear that I can no longer support this game, even in bits and pieces. I really like SWTOR, don't get me wrong. But I do not agree with where EA appears to be taking it, and that is the deal breaker.

 

And it isn't about it going F2P in itself. I've been with DCUO since launch and it transitioned to F2P in its first year, too. But I stuck by it and have yet to regret it. Funcom just sent TSW into the B2P market (subscription optional). So, it isn't the model. It is, however, how EA is handling the model.

 

I completely understand where you're coming from, but you should know that Funcom and EA co-published TSW.

If you haven't heard EA co-published TSW with Funcom...

 

Touche.

If you want story content, support the small amount we get. Granted, I think it's a cheap move to disallow subscribers (or anyone else, for that matter) to use their saved points, but it's an understandable one. Story content, class-based or otherwise, isn't cheap. Particularly when compared to how profitable a new pet or robe on the Cartel Market can be. They're simply hedging their bets.

 

 

Although perhaps there is some truth in your statement from a players perspective, it is to me wrong on the whole.

 

I should not have to bribe (buying things that I do not want in the hope that someday there will be things that I do) a company to produce the product that I want. They should be offering what I want to buy. If they can't do so and make a reasonable profit then they should not be in the business. Looking at the game content and CM as distinct is also wrong. Although there may be significantly more profit in CM items, the amount of such sold and ultimate profit depends on the number of players and their motivation to buy. There is no CM without content.

 

EA can shut down the game and go it's merry way. If the game is to continue, new content must be provided because to most who have played for any lenght of time, the content has been played to the degree that they desire and the game is at it's end.

 

I find gaming and gamers interesting. I am not sure that I know of any other enterprise where the customers are called on to motivate a company to produce the products that they are in business to produce.

Edited December 19, 2012 by asbalana

Although perhaps there is some truth in your statement from a players perspective, it is to me wrong on the whole.

 

I should not have to bribe (buying things that I do not want in the hope that someday there will be things that I do) a company to produce the product that I want. They should be offering what I want to buy. If they can't do so and make a reasonable profit then they should not be in the business. Looking at the game content and CM as distinct is also wrong. Although there may be significantly more profit in CM items, the amount of such sold and ultimate profit depends on the number of players and their motivation to buy. There is no CM without content.

 

EA can shut down the game and go it's merry way. If the game is to continue, new content must be provided because to most who have played for any lenght of time, the content has been played to the degree that they desire and the game is at it's end.

 

I find gaming and gamers interesting. I am not sure that I know of any other enterprise where the customers are called on to motivate a company to produce the products that they are in business to produce.

 

You see it as bribing. I see it as "When you make things I like I give you money, mkay :D"

 

I want more story so when they give me more story I give them money, this is something I want more off. If you had a company making a product no one bought, would you continue to make more of the same product? They have already said that if the Cathar is successful they will continue with more playable species. I would say that they same thing goes for story.

Edited December 19, 2012 by SilentKitty

I love the game for the story. Everything else is fairly stale...but the story is what hooked me.

 

Having said that, I will not be purchasing the "expansion". I'm not going to reward a company for their shoddy business practices (even to get something I may want).

I'm looking forward to the expansion. Sure I'd rather the level cap be going up a full 10 levels ((60)) instead of just 5...but I'll take what I can get. When you think about it half the complaints and or wishes from the player base has been for more story content..and that's what they are giving us with this new expansion. And I'm not at all upset or surprised that we have to pay for it...after all if they gave us it for free..then how would they be able to make money to afford to keep developing more and more content for the game?

You see it as bribing. I see it as "When you make things I like I give you money, mkay :D"

 

I want more story so when they give me more story I give them money, this is something I want more off. If you had a company making a product no one bought, would you continue to make more of the same product? They have already said that if the Cathar is successful they will continue with more playable species. I would say that they same thing goes for story.

 

Well said ^^

I love the game for the story. Everything else is fairly stale...but the story is what hooked me.

 

Having said that, I will not be purchasing the "expansion". I'm not going to reward a company for their shoddy business practices (even to get something I may want).

 

I would encourage you to do as I did - unsubscribe, but put that money toward Makeb. Make a decision to show them that you're not supporting the general direction of the game, that your faith has been shaken, but at the same time, show them exactly where you want them to head. Unfortunately, not even the most gifted wordsmith could get anything across to EA - when dealing with them, money talks. And money alone.

exactly, $10 is so cheap, I don't understand why people in some of the wealthiest countries in the world somehow don't want to pay the price of a snack from KFC for an expansion that will provide HOURS of content.

 

Unless you do it on 'principle' in which case ****, it's clearly good value, and if they didn't charge you, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO DEVELOP THE GAME.

 

Really? So all the money pouring in from gambling packs and holiday speeders isn't earmarked for developing the game?

Really? So all the money pouring in from gambling packs and holiday speeders isn't earmarked for developing the game?

 

I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. It's a logical one, of course, for the longevity of the game, but EA doesn't really understand longevity. They only understand content that generates immediate profit. As far as I'm concerned, if the money from the cash shop ever gets re-invested in the game, it's going right back in to content for the cash shop.

 

All we can do is send a message by showing them precisely where we'll let them make that profit. And we can only send that message one person at a time.

I would encourage you to do as I did - unsubscribe, but put that money toward Makeb. Make a decision to show them that you're not supporting the general direction of the game, that your faith has been shaken, but at the same time, show them exactly where you want them to head. Unfortunately, not even the most gifted wordsmith could get anything across to EA - when dealing with them, money talks. And money alone.

 

They're heading in whatever direction gets them the most cash for the least work-i.e. cartel shop. There will likely never be a class storyline extension (not that most of the class stories were that great anyway), so replay value has dropped even lower. Adding levels (and presumably new abilities and talents) will likely further unbalance the game (more hybrid specs anyone?). There will also be a further splitting of the playerbase, sub with makeb, sub without, free with, free without.

 

Will 54 become the new twink level? Will Elite War Hero scale up, or will there be a new gear grind in a very few months? What will raiders do-burn through any new ops then unsub until the next raid, since they've already done the others to death, even if they do scale up?

I love seeing people pre-order based on hope. You have no idea what to expect aside from 3 screenshots, one of which shows some of the worst armor I have ever seen.

 

We as consumers really need to show our hand on this one, we should refrain from buying Makeb until we get a promise that the next expansion WILL contain the stuff we want and that the makeb expansion is going topay for it all.

 

I agree that Makeb is likely to be good content, but it isn't the content I want and I have experienced games go F2P before and the logic they use is "People bought this so they must like it", which means we will see more and more planets and less and less story. I refuse to give them my money until I know it is going to be spent on something I like, otherwise why am I supporting a game that doesn't cater to my tastes?

 

I don't even care if they release chapter 4 and actually meaningfully tie up the class stories and finish them there, as long as they don't just leave it open and unfinished like it is currently. Even worse they haven't come out to say that class stories will continue, which leads me to think they won't no matter what happens.

If you haven't heard EA co-published TSW with Funcom...

 

Actually, Funcom handles ALL development and design of TSW, EA is simply the publisher-distributor (aka Order Fullfillment House). They have no say in the game, and Funcom stated that many times pre-launch.

 

It is the same relationship SOE had with Flying Labs Softwware for Pirates of the Burning Sea (and their former Creative Director, Chris Pramas, is a friend of mine in the RPG industry as he also owns Green Ronin). They simply handled the game's publishing and (in that case) billing through Station.

 

So, TSW is purely Funcom. Otherwise, I would not be there. Yes, I am aware that EA gets a cut as the publisher-distruibutor, same as Cubicle 7 Entertainment (owned by the video game developer, Rebellion) gets a cut of my RPG books, or Random House gets a cut of our novel distruibution. Likewise, their logos go on my books, too, as the fullfillment house. Same as with EA in TSW, or SOE over with Pirates. Common practice, but they still have no design or direction say into the products.

 

I don't care about that aspect, though. EA has no design or direction input into TSW, and that is what matters to me.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Jumajin

I would encourage you to do as I did - unsubscribe, but put that money toward Makeb. Make a decision to show them that you're not supporting the general direction of the game, that your faith has been shaken, but at the same time, show them exactly where you want them to head. Unfortunately, not even the most gifted wordsmith could get anything across to EA - when dealing with them, money talks. And money alone.

 

I did unsub, actually. And not necessarily because of Makeb - I WOULD pay 10 bucks for it, if I had any faith in the company producing it. I don't.

 

Because of that, I'm not going to buy it, regardless of my sub status. IF (and that's an "if" of gigantic proportions) more details of it come out that appeal to me, then I reserve the right to change my mind. I think that's about as likely as getting updates on APAC, SGRs, Server Transfers, and the wealth of other issues that are never addressed.

If story content in general makes SWTOR money, EA will be more willing to listen to BW when they ask for more money for story.

 

After the huge price of setting up the three chapters of class stories, EA is skeptical of putting more money into story. If Makeb does well, maybe Bioware can convince EA to give them more money for story content in the next expansion.

 

Of course they could also just keep making more Makeb style stuff without class content, but if Makeb fails there is absolutely no chance of more class content. You might say that if we support Makeb we'll just get more pure planet questlines, but what happens if Makeb fails?

 

If Makeb fails, EA will interpret that as story content failing. That's how they look at things.

If story content in general makes SWTOR money, EA will be more willing to listen to BW when they ask for more money for story.

 

After the huge price of setting up the three chapters of class stories, EA is skeptical of putting more money into story. If Makeb does well, maybe Bioware can convince EA to give them more money for story content in the next expansion.

 

Of course they could also just keep making more Makeb style stuff without class content, but if Makeb fails there is absolutely no chance of more class content. You might say that if we support Makeb we'll just get more pure planet questlines, but what happens if Makeb fails?

 

If Makeb fails, EA will interpret that as story content failing. That's how they look at things.

 

My thinking exactly. The players may perceive planetary and class story as separate, but the publishers, and to a degree, the developers themselves do not think of them as exclusive content. All story content is integral to each other - harming one merely harms the other. EA isn't going to invest in expansive story content, class-focused or otherwise, if the story content they are making available fails.

bioware rally shot themselves in the foot by making the 1-50 story what everyone wants more of. what that did is drive many to roll as many alts as they wanted stories, so now everyone has a bunch of alts. then they release content that is the same for all their characters, which is unappreciated because this is the most unsavory thing about leveling... repeating the side quests. so now makeb is going to be a planet chain, which i agree is one step above side quests since i can bear to repeat planet quests... but the manner in which i have to repeat makeb has a greater frequency than that for which i repeat say the tatooine planet chain, thus making the experience unpleasant unless i stagged doing makeb on my 50s... which may not be viable if lvl 55 greens are better than the 61s i am wearing.

I understand the OPs feelings of support but I need to say this.

It is a personal post but I think that some of the issues that will be mentioned have merit beyond a gamer's personal experience.

 

I was one of the first people to subscribe to these forums several years ago when this game was announced. I had jumped with joy at the opportunity to participate in this galaxy far far away in a theme park MMO (remember these were the days when WoW was still kinda fresh). When I watched all the hype about the fourth pillar of story, mr Erickson's posts and videos about player choice and living your own personal star wars saga, I was thrilled.

 

Right in the middle of development (was it 2009 or 2010 can't remember) was the first time that we saw a design turn towards more traditional MMO trappings. Up until then "the captain stayed dead", companions could be killed, and cinematic player choice permeated the design. After that time, conspicuously near the time of the EA-Bioware buyout we started seeing focus shifting to repeatable dungeons, raids, pvp balance and "200 hours per character". All good things, mind you, but now the hype was away from the "4th pillar" of the story and more into more traditional MMO goals.

 

And then the game was released, in a barrage of marketing hype, which was a good thing considering the flak it took from some of the established gaming press and some blogs supporting WoW.

 

And its main weakness was that...it tried two different things which competed for the players' attention to the detriment of the game. On one hand it had a nice personal story that beckoned the player to immerse her/himself into cinematics and dialogue, and on the other hand it had nice dungeons and crafting and grind and operations that beckoned the player to try these. I think it was Rock Paper Shotgun that has hit the nail on the head then by saying that the game would have been far more successful if each characters leveling was 80 or 100 hours long at maximum in order to allow the player to experience the personal story at the right pace. The way the game released right about tatooine the story experience (if you wanted to keep up levelwise-which you had to) was so diluted as to leave the player distracted.

 

But we said, it's ok, this is at least a game that HAS story and a non trivial one in a universe we grew up fond of. Give it time. And we gave it time. We thought that maybe the story content will find its pace in future expansions.

Others didn't. The MMO raid crowd left in 3-5 months because...that's what they do. They don't care about the story, they come they raid and they go. only the Blizzard behemoth has the resources to sate their thirst for the 2324124324th orange shoulder pad that can help them feel better about themselves every two weeks. But we were in for the long haul. We persevered.

Then came the FTP, well...the pay to win, transition. Many of the pvpers and the dungeon runners left for greener pastures especially with the pay to win items in the cartel shop but the story crowd stayed hoping that this game will find its true niche and thrive on the promised differentiating virtue: story.

 

And then this "digital expansion" debacle hit us. It is not the 10 or 20 bucks, it is not the flat out lying that it would be free, it is...it is the design choice to introduce 5 new levels, 1 new planet and NO NEW PERSONAL STORIES.

This to me shouts out that the fourth pillar is dead. Oh and please do not insult me by saying that planet stories are story content because...they aren't. Listening to the 1414th Jawa qwaking about the importance of bringing his aunt's scredwrivers is just a lame justification for the grind. True story content, story content that made me want to finish the quest because it seemed that it meant something (Mr. Hickman it is called suspension of disbelief) was only the personal story content. Only in these stories, with heavy use of instancing, were the writers able to achieve a continuity that made the stories meaningful, concise and relevant. And in this "digital expansion" they are gone.

 

That for me means that under the enlightened guidance of the person who demolished Warhammer Online SWTOR has become a shadow of what was promised. The fourth pillar of story was brought down by the same director who thought that having a hardcore PvP MMO with live RvR would be a good idea even without having the server technology to support it.

 

Oh well I still haven't finished all the personal stories but I will have by the time my subscription is over (yes I supported the game with my money not with cheerleading every decision that did not make sense). I sincerely hope that the game survives up to that time otherwise we will hear again about the Star Wars MMO jinx.

Which is a shame because we should be talking about the EA's professional Hitman effect.

 

P.S.: To all of you who wish to post and tell me good riddance feel free to do so. I was there when you or others like you said it to the whole million of subscribers that left. I think that this display of fan loyalty is doing the game a great service.

One of the earliest TOR rumours was it would operate in a "book" like formula, similar to LOTRO. Where you pay to get the new part of the story. This was 2008 and we heard nothing since then though, however does look to be the case.

 

Im all for story, and excitement. I just hope its not too tedious on mutliple toons

One Planet worth of story content doesn't cut it. I'd pay far more if htey made class stories continue but as it stands between the lies and complete bungling of their entire F2P/Cash Shop management I'm not willing to give them more of my money.

 

If they release Chapter four or new companion content maybe I'll buy it, but frankly I'll likely have moved on by then. I have till next month left on my Sub then I'm done F2P even as preffered is too restricted for me to bother with (I have too many active characters to handle 2 slots)

 

EA may think a set of planet quests (that given past level 50+ content is going to be basically the same for both sides) is story content. It isn't it's clearly them taking a finished FREE update and trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of it. EA's blatantly mercenary management of the cash shop and everything SW:TOR and gutting of pretty much all real talent from the studio makes clear exactly where this game is headed. I don't want to follow them down that septic hole.

I just can't believe expanding the class stories is as expensive as they make out. All the infrastructure is there, they are not making an entire new game. What happened to having all the voice actors on long term contracts?

 

Also keep in mind that all the content released this year, including the upcoming Makeb, was already in the pipeline well before swtor was released. This shows that there was NEVER an intention to expand the class stories, regardless of how well the game did.

 

If swtor was as successful as they planned, we would still be asking the same question "Where is the class story?"

Edited December 19, 2012 by Marb