I played solo ranked less than 6 months ago. I seriously doubt anything has changed since then. Continue on with your false narrative that i never played ranked. Ranked was toxic, is toxic, and always will be toxic.

You said you played ranked for one week 6 months ago. Meanwhile, I've played ranked most days for the past year. Toxicity in ranked is not a problem. See also, all the other ranked players in this thread that have said the same thing as I have.

lol maybe. I'm only aware of that one mara getting banned for being toxic. Are you saying there have been more? I don't really frequent many pvp discords because I have no interest in getting involved in the drama.

I don't have confirmation on anyone, but I can list about a handful of ppl who would regularly rag on anyone who was "bad," both in and out of game, and now they don't even though I still see them in queue. there's a reason they changed their behavior. I'm going with one or both of the two that I listed.

If you haven't played ranked in the last 5-6 months, please see yourself out of the conversation because toxicity is far far less than it was in 2.x, 3.x. I was there, I know.

 

If you are getting flamed now in ranked it's because either 1) you found the one a-hole that exists in every type of game, or 2) you are bad AND you refuse to listen to your experienced teammates. Let's take some personal responsibility.

it certainly was worse earlier, but in other ways. you see, if some bad player kept Q'ing, you just passed your gear to a mirror toon on the other faction and didn't worry about him. hell, it boosted your rating if anyhting. now, you have to just stop Q'ing altogether, and that makes you (impersonal) more angry at that person.

I played 1-4, and at least part of 7 (found 7 flags when I came back to the game this year). and the first thing I said when one of these threads popped up was that it's downright cordial compared to previous seasons. but the population has shrunk (again). and when that douche wannabe viking guild was at its height, there was a lot of elitist rancor -- not simply do this, why didn't you do that, but outright harassment in fleet where they'd try to make you a leper on the server. "oh. we're just teasing." "it's just having fun." "it's your fault. get better." uh huh. until you're the person getting **** on. but, as I said, it's gone away for the time being on SF, and it was a 100x worse in the days of 8v8 preseason and sage hybrids running around as healers masquerading as dps.

You said you played ranked for one week 6 months ago. Meanwhile, I've played ranked most days for the past year. Toxicity in ranked is not a problem. See also, all the other ranked players in this thread that have said the same thing as I have.

Maybe your idea of toxic is different than those who say it is toxic? I need a certified description of what all entails toxicity regarding SWTOR ranked to put a button on this once and for all.

The problem as I see it is people’s definition of toxic. What’s toxic to one person is not toxic to others. And it’s a losing argument and I think this is losing players from ranked and making toxicity worse because if one person thinks something is toxic and stops playing and some one else thinks it not and keeps playing, then you end up with only people playing who are more toxic to some people or people willing to put up with it.

As that tolerance to toxicity increases or more people leave due to toxicity, that line in the sand of what’s toxic and what’s not goes up higher and higher. Which drives more players from the game. Eventually you will end up with only toxic players or those willing to put up with it or ranked dies completely because not enough people will play it,

This is something that has been happening for years and years. But now we have the problem where the game’s population is dying, which is a seperate issue, but is also exacerbated by cheaters, toxicity and bad Bioware decisions that make less people play ranked. Which in turns ruins the queue and the ELO matchmaking system.

Honestly, I don’t really care what line people think is toxic and what’s not. What I care about is the health of the game and I would hope the rest of the players would too.

But that’s not the case because instead of people reining in their behaviour or toning it down or even acknowledging that it’s being detrimental to pvp, they are defending the toxicity that is there and others tell people not to queue, grow a thick skin or abuse them in and out of the matches.

It’s apparent to me that some people don’t care about the game or the quality, especially after reading some comments and participating in this thread. They would rather let it continue to die than take steps to fix the problems they can fix with their behaviour and influencing others.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Bioware set the rules and the “line in the sand” of what is acceptable behaviour. Only they can police it and they aren’t. And because players seem unable or unwilling to curb their own behaviour or regulate themselves, then it’s reasonable to ask Bioware to step in and enforce their own rules of conduct.

If that seems heavy handed, then people only have themselves to blame. Because if some of the players were mature enough to realise it’s not just about themselves, but the whole community as a whole, we wouldn’t need Bioware to do anything.

Ranked and pvp is a shambles. Bioware are slow to move on problems or unwilling to address them. If the remaining players can’t even agree that there is a problem, what hope is there of ranked ever getting more players.

It’s absolutely astonishing when I see toxic people begging on the fleet to queue ranked and when you go into a match they abuse everyone for being crap. If you want it to pop, don’t be d****. And don’t expect people to queue if you are toxic on the fleet after the matches.

These are obviously the worst of the worst toxic players. But they are there and they drive people from the queue and playing ranked. They are their own worst enemies and often the cause of why the queue isn’t popping to start with. To then see them begging on the fleet makes them even more pathetic in my opinion.

Not everyone who plays ranked is toxic, but there are those who are and accepting it make us enablers for them to continue. We all need to realise if we don’t speak up, we are partly to blame.

Personally I’ve got no skin in the game. I won’t step into ranked anymore because of my experiences. Obviously my skin isn’t thick as some or I just don’t find it fun playing with bullies. Seeing threads about the toxicity only enforces that belief as I’m sure it does for many players who read about it.

Maybe one day I’ll see some positive threads that say the toxicity has gone and people will all agree in the thread.

Maybe one day I’ll see some positive threads that say the toxicity has gone and people will all agree in the thread.

Trixxie, this is that thread lol.

Read through the thread again and read the posts made by all the actual ranked players. We are virtually all saying toxicity isn't a real problem in ranked. The only people saying that it is are people that don't actually play ranked. It's pretty simple. The only way you will ever know whether ranked is "toxic" is either playing it yourself or listening to those of us that do play it. But I guess you'd rather just believe what makes sense in your own head and other nonsense spouted by people that also don't play ranked.

I've already addressed everything else in your post. There's nothing selfish about wanting to protect everyone's free expression from capricious regulation by Bioware, especially when "toxicity" isn't even a problem in the first place.

The problem as I see it is people’s definition of toxic. What’s toxic to one person is not toxic to others. And it’s a losing argument and I think this is losing players from ranked and making toxicity worse because if one person thinks something is toxic and stops playing and some one else thinks it not and keeps playing, then you end up with only people playing who are more toxic to some people or people willing to put up with it.

 

As that tolerance to toxicity increases or more people leave due to toxicity, that line in the sand of what’s toxic and what’s not goes up higher and higher. Which drives more players from the game. Eventually you will end up with only toxic players or those willing to put up with it or ranked dies completely because not enough people will play it,

People who stop queing for ranked because of toxicity are not suited for ranked play anyway, on the other hand people who stop playing because of throwing,wintrading and noobs who are getting globalled 24/7 have a legit reason to stop.

This is something that has been happening for years and years. But now we have the problem where the game’s population is dying, which is a seperate issue, but is also exacerbated by cheaters, toxicity and bad Bioware decisions that make less people play ranked. Which in turns ruins the queue and the ELO matchmaking system.

It's not the 'toxicity' in ranked that is driving the game to ruin, it is bioware unability to caught and punish cheaters,wintraders,thrower and make acces to ranked pvp little more exclusive.It's not the players who are at fault for swtor's poor health.

Honestly, I don’t really care what line people think is toxic and what’s not. What I care about is the health of the game and I would hope the rest of the players would too.

If you care about the health of the game look no further then to bioware's failure to provide a new content and balance (pvp and pve) on regular basis and stop blaming it on 'toxicity'

If you care about the health of the game look no further then to bioware's failure to provide a new content and balance (pvp and pve) on regular basis and stop blaming it on 'toxicity'

Precisely.

 

Read through the thread again and read the posts made by all the actual ranked players. We are virtually all saying toxicity isn't a real problem in ranked. The only people saying that it is are people that don't actually play ranked.

Denial, not just a river in egypt, lol

Denial, not just a river in egypt, lol

I really wish I could imagine being ignorant enough to make factual claims about something I know nothing about.

Even with the truth staring you in the face, you still cling to lies just to make yourself feel better about your obvious lack of success in ranked (which, let's be honest, is the same psychology of everyone complaining about "toxicity" in ranked).

Denial, not just a river in egypt, lol

You must have a really low "toxicity threshold," I think. Because it is mostly silent in solos. Silence is both deafening and toxic, apparently

I really wish I could imagine being ignorant enough to make factual claims about something I know nothing about.

 

Even with the truth staring you in the face, you still cling to lies just to make yourself feel better about your obvious lack of success in ranked (which, let's be honest, is the same psychology of everyone complaining about "toxicity" in ranked).

I wish i could be arrogant enough to make assumptions about what other people know or dont know to suit my own beliefs.

You must have a really low "toxicity threshold," I think. Because it is mostly silent in solos. Silence is both deafening and toxic, apparently

Exactly. Just people calling strats and playing the game. "Toxicity" is very much the exception.

I wish i could be arrogant enough to make assumptions about what other people know or dont know to suit my own beliefs.

You literally admit that you don't play solo ranked. There are no assumptions needed.

Trixxie, this is that thread lol.

 

Read through the thread again and read the posts made by all the actual ranked players. We are virtually all saying toxicity isn't a real problem in ranked. The only people saying that it is are people that don't actually play ranked. It's pretty simple. The only way you will ever know whether ranked is "toxic" is either playing it yourself or listening to those of us that do play it. But I guess you'd rather just believe what makes sense in your own head and other nonsense spouted by people that also don't play ranked.

 

I've already addressed everything else in your post. There's nothing selfish about wanting to protect everyone's free expression from capricious regulation by Bioware, especially when "toxicity" isn't even a problem in the first place.

The last time I played was 2 months ago. And after seeing 2 people abusing nearly everyone in the queue or degrading them in front of others, I decided I would not be part of that anymore as no one would say anything to them because they were too worried about being the target of their abuse. I was the only one who stood up to those two bullies and asked them politely to stop. Of course when I did, I became the focus of their toxicity, which was reported and nothing done about it.

My experiences have told me that not everyone is toxic, but many people are enablers of It because they stay quiet. That is not the sort of community that I want to be part of and I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way.

Your definition of what’s acceptable and what I think is acceptable is obviously very different. I wish you would accept and understand that when you push people who have different values to you out of the game, you aren’t doing yourself any favours either.

The last time I played was 2 months ago. And after seeing 2 people abusing nearly everyone in the queue or degrading them in front of others, I decided I would not be part of that anymore as no one would say anything to them because they were too worried about being the target of their abuse. I was the only one who stood up to those two bullies and asked them politely to stop. Of course when I did, I became the focus of their toxicity, which was reported and nothing done about it.

 

My experiences have told me that not everyone is toxic, but many people are enablers of It because they stay quiet. That is not the sort of community that I want to be part of and I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way.

Your definition of what’s acceptable and what I think is acceptable is obviously very different. I wish you would accept and understand that when you push people who have different values to you out of the game, you aren’t doing yourself any favours either.

Having a literal handful of isolated bad experiences doesn't mean ranked is "toxic" as a whole. I've said many times that there are some truly vile people that play ranked. Sometimes you'll be in a match with them, and they will say some awful things to people. That happens in every online pvp game.

The vast majority of solo ranked players and matches aren't like that. Thus, it's not a big problem.

And as for people having different "values," that's exactly why imposing only one set of values on a diverse player base is such a terrible idea. Do you want christian servers where you can get banned just for casually swearing? I'll repeat again, everyone's rights to free expression are infinitely more important than people getting "pushed" out of a game due to speech they find unacceptable. The end does not even remotely justify the means in this case. If you really think that making certain people feel safe and comfortable is more important than allowing people to freely express themselves, then there's not much more to discuss. It's a totalitarian impulse that only ever leads to less freedom for everyone.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to be a part of what you consider a "toxic" community, then don't be a part of it. You shouldn't be trying to change it by silencing people just so that it suits you personally.

No matter how awful ranked is, Alex has determined he is going down with the ship.

Regardless if we think it's toxicity or not that makes ranked awful, the fact is, it's actually really awful. There's no way around this fact. How do I know it's awful? Personal experience for one. Since launch I have played solo ranked off and on.

Sure, my last time playing solo ranked was short-lived, but that was because 3 out of 4 of the matches were compromised by traders dropping from one team or the other to cause a win or loss for one or the other team. I have zero patience for this type of ingame activity amongst the players and if BW fails to curb this behavior I won't partake. I consider this behavior toxic.

This behavior causes tons of annoyance and stress especially if you value your ELO and/or value fun and engaging matches. When you lose ELO, and it has nothing to do with your own performance the system is broken.

Now explain to me how this behavior isn't toxic?

This behavior (wintrading, cheating, dropping matches, queue dodging, etc.) has the exact same effect on players as does verbal toxicity which is what the guy created the thread about. Just because that's the type of toxicity that upsets him most doesn't mean that's the only brand of toxicity regarding ranked, though.

When it comes to verbal toxicity I have a very high tolerance just from playing PVP games dating back to EQ1 when I started PVP on that game. Yes, sure the verbal barbs people (mostly children or manchildren) hurl at others nowadays are much worse than they were back during the EQ1 PVP days, it still has no effect on me except give me fuel to destroy the **** talker in PVP.

So when I call ranked toxic, I consider all the factors involved that make it toxic. Not just verbal BS manchildren come up with to try to hurt my feelings. This verbal toxicity has no impact on me, whatsoever.

Now, does that mean it's not a factor? Not at all. The verbal toxicity can be highly upsetting to some people, and I recognize that and respect others enough to not dump on them just because I need to vent and I don't know how else to deal with my emotions. I don't use anonymity as a shield to hide behind and then verbally lambast someone because I think they are the culprit to me losing a match.

This type of verbal toxicity exists, will never go away as long as players can chat in PVP. Stop pretending that suddenly this kind of behavior no longer exists.

I can't believe this just from playing PVP games literally for 20 years now. Toxicity will never go away from online PVP games, lol. Point is, there are other "toxic" factors involved with SWTOR ranked PVP that make it a complete dumpster fire.

Regardless if we think it's toxicity or not that makes ranked awful, the fact is, it's actually really awful. There's no way around this fact. How do I know it's awful? Personal experience for one. Since launch I have played solo ranked off and on.

 

Sure, my last time playing solo ranked was short-lived, but that was because 3 out of 4 of the matches were compromised by traders dropping from one team or the other to cause a win or loss for one or the other team. I have zero patience for this type of ingame activity amongst the players and if BW fails to curb this behavior I won't partake. I consider this behavior toxic.

Here is how the OP described the toxicity he experienced in ranked:

Every single time I have gone into Ranked Warzone it has been extremely unpleasant due to negative bullying behaviour of other players. If they are not swearing at you with a constant stream of curse words and other forms of abusive words, then they are blaming you for some other absurd reason.

So wintrading/cheating isn't the type of "toxic" we are discussing. Let's let cheating have it's own category and thread please.

Another thing to note is that OP says he plays on SS. I only have experience on SF server, so he may be right about the attitude on SS. Not sure if JMA plays on SS.

Regardless if we think it's toxicity or not that makes ranked awful, the fact is, it's actually really awful.

Sure, my last time playing solo ranked was short-lived, but that was because 3 out of 4 of the matches were compromised by traders dropping from one team or the other to cause a win or loss for one or the other team.

So you've played 4 matches in the last year and yet know it's a "fact" that ranked is "really awful." The fact that you can post that with a straight face is truly astounding.

Now explain to me how this behavior isn't toxic?

Using the word "toxic" to describe behavior in this way is yet another example of why the word "toxic" is often a useless term. Now you're having to both distinguish and then lump together different kinds of "toxicities"? Why not just actually describe what you're talking about rather then relying on vague words. Obviously wintrading is bad behavior, but that has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion in this thread.

Also, the vast majority of ranked matches have no wintrading happening in them. That is an actual fact, and I can say it with confidence because 1. I play ranked nearly every day, and 2. I abhor wintrading and watch closely for it.

This type of verbal toxicity exists, will never go away as long as players can chat in PVP. Stop pretending that suddenly this kind of behavior no longer exists.

The kind of "toxicity" that is common to both this game and all online games isn't really "toxic." And the kind that really is 'toxic" is rare.

I only have experience on SF server, so he may be right about the attitude on SS. Not sure if JMA plays on SS.

I too only play on SF. I believe I mentioned in an earlier post that it's possible that SS is a lot more toxic than SF, but I highly doubt it. Either way, we're talking about changes that would affect the game as a whole, not individual servers. So even if things are far worse on SS, which again, I doubt very much, that shouldn't affect game-wide policies.

So you've played 4 matches in the last year and yet know it's a "fact" that ranked is "really awful." The fact that you can post that with a straight face is truly astounding.

I should have added on average for you. Clearly if i was playing solo ranked on multiple toons and across a week's time, I played more than 4 total matches. You sure are easily astounded, aren't you?

The term "toxicity" is only useless to someone that wants to argue semantics over what it is or is not.

The OP's interpretation of "toxicity" is valid, and so is what I described in my previous post. What I described isn't just "cheating" it's systemic behavior that revolves around ranked, particularly solo ranked. Along with that behavior comes the verbal toxicity, they go hand in hand.

Seeing we all want to define the word "toxicity" as what we want I am allowed to add the specific behavior I described as 100% toxic. It's not complicated and doesn't require heavy analyzing to realize what is toxic and what is not... It's really as easy as determining if something is blue or yellow, at least it is for people with empathy and understanding of what can and will harm other people, or harm their enjoyment of a game mode like ranked PVP.

You can try to insult my experience or minimalize my point of view and posts, it won't change the fact that ranked is a cesspool and needs a major overhaul for it to improve and bring in more player participation. It sucks because it's toxic, whether it's from angry manchildren throwing tantrums and venting on others, or it's from the plethora of ways people manipulate and gain ELO which directly cause the quality of matches to be less than they could be.

We can argue whether ranked PVP is "as bad" as I say it is, or not. The numbers are on my side of the debate. Less players enjoy ranked than ever before. Ranked has never been worse than it is now. Just facts here.

Oh, let me add this here too. I got this from a different thread, but feel it's worth pointing out that there are ranked players who do admit that toxicity does indeed exist, still.

the toxicity in solo is soulcrushing to them. I don't blame them one bit for staying in regs and having fun being a reg star. I believe that if they had the chance to play arenas and not play with toxicity, death threats, mother offers, I can see a day where people queue GRGF because it sound like fun for the next couple hours. Meet up with old friends, duke out a couple of arenas, get some mats then go play huttball or civil war.

Seterade may not appreciate me adding his quote here, but I think it's relevant to our discussion. Seterade is respected and highly knowledgeable about ranked. He also will engage others without belittling them or their opinions, even when he disagrees with them or when he doesn't even like the poster. He also adds to his explanation of "toxicity" with a couple different examples of behavior that makes ranked "toxic" and might discourage players from trying to play ranked, as it stands right now.

I'd suggest those of us that belittle or minimalize others opinions on the forums to take a look at how guys like Seterade conduct themselves on the forums. I know I appreciate and respect his opinion a lot more just because he has the capacity to discuss gaming topics without becoming condescending and/or disrespectful.

You can try to insult my experience or minimalize my point of view and posts, it won't change the fact that ranked is a cesspool and needs a major overhaul for it to improve and bring in more player participation. It sucks because it's toxic,

Another totally baseless statement. When you make outrageous statements with no evidence to back them up, it's shameful. If you feel "belittled" by my pointing that out, maybe stop posting about things you are ignorant of.

We can argue whether ranked PVP is "as bad" as I say it is, or not. The numbers are on my side of the debate. Less players enjoy ranked than ever before. Ranked has never been worse than it is now. Just facts here.

What numbers? How is that a fact? What is that based on? Oh, that's right, you literally just made it up in your own head, just like all of your opinions of ranked. If you have actual evidence to back it up, by all means post it.

I'd suggest those of us that belittle or minimalize others opinions on the forums to take a look at how guys like Seterade conduct themselves on the forums. I know I appreciate and respect his opinion a lot more just because he has the capacity to discuss gaming topics without becoming condescending and/or disrespectful.

The fact that you are trying to convince other people that a certain mode of the game is terrible when you don't even play that game mode, and therefore know nothing about what happens in it, is downright disrespectful to anyone that reads this thread. Most of your posts about ranked are filled with misinformation. They're not just worthless, they're actually harmful.

Your ranked posts are basically the equivalent of a non-scientist mom making anti-vax posts on facebook claiming she "has the data" and to "do your research". I truly hope that no one takes your posts about ranked seriously.

No matter how awful ranked is, Alex has determined he is going down with the ship.

Go down with it, hes denying its even taking on water, lol

Another totally baseless statement. When you make outrageous statements with no evidence to back them up, it's shameful. If you feel "belittled" by my pointing that out, maybe stop posting about things you are ignorant of.

 

 

 

What numbers? How is that a fact? What is that based on? Oh, that's right, you literally just made it up in your own head, just like all of your opinions of ranked. If you have actual evidence to back it up, by all means post it.

 

 

 

The fact that you are trying to convince other people that a certain mode of the game is terrible when you don't even play that game mode, and therefore know nothing about what happens in it, is downright disrespectful to anyone that reads this thread. Most of your posts about ranked are filled with misinformation. They're not just worthless, they're actually harmful.

 

Your ranked posts are basically the equivalent of a non-scientist mom making anti-vax posts on facebook claiming she "has the data" and to "do your research". I truly hope that no one takes your posts about ranked seriously.

People need to read my posts, and take them highly seriously. I can save a lot of newer players from a lot of disappointment and sadness if they heed my advice and stay out of ranked.

Seriously, new players! Stay out of ranked, it's a cesspool of toxicity that includes cheating, wintrading, match throwing, verbal insults so awful I'd never write such things even to my worst enemies and that's just the tip of the toxic iceberg!

Just admit it buddy, ranked PVP is abysmal and highly toxic. If it weren't, you'd see a higher number of players participating. How are you even defending it, lol. All you do is encourage BW to be lazy and not try to drain this toxic swamp of awfulness.

Oh well, w/e Clearly some people have a really low standard of their online gaming experience. I guess I was spoiled by MMOs like EQ1, EQ2, WAR, and others that paved the way for this game.

People need to read my posts, and take them highly seriously. I can save a lot of newer players from a lot of disappointment and sadness if they heed my advice and stay out of ranked.

 

Seriously, new players! Stay out of ranked, it's a cesspool of toxicity that includes cheating, wintrading, match throwing, verbal insults so awful I'd never write such things even to my worst enemies and that's just the tip of the toxic iceberg!

 

Just admit it buddy, ranked PVP is abysmal and highly toxic. If it weren't, you'd see a higher number of players participating. How are you even defending it, lol. All you do is encourage BW to be lazy and not try to drain this toxic swamp of awfulness.

Once again, posting based on ignorance. No evidence for a word you've said. The equivalent of a climate-change denier. Nothing sadder than someone that can't accept reality so they'd rather believe in lies that make themselves feel better. Spreading such lies is irresponsible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

For additional perspective, for those interested, I'm queueing ranked on Star Forge right now. I've played 4 games in the last hour, and they've all been reasonably high in quality. Some of the best sages on the server are in these games. A few sub par maras and mercs. No "toxicity" whatsoever. Those are facts.

Once again, posting based on ignorance. No evidence for a word you've said. The equivalent of a climate-change denier. Nothing sadder than someone that can't accept reality so they'd rather believe in lies that make themselves feel better. Spreading such lies is irresponsible, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

For additional perspective, for those interested, I'm queueing ranked on Star Forge right now. I've played 4 games in the last hour, and they've all been reasonably high in quality. Some of the best sages on the server are in these games. A few sub par maras and mercs. No "toxicity" whatsoever. Those are facts.

Can you prove any of this? Sounds like a lot of baseless proclamations tbh.

Until I see SS's and time stamps along with proof of the server played I refuse to believe there are any "high quality" matches in solo ranked on SF or anywhere else.

Pretending you are in "high quality" matches just to get people to try ranked is noble of you, albeit a bit dishonest.

Sounds like a lot of phoney baloney, Alex.