Tanking on my lowbie Guardian, Mando raiders.

 

Things were going fine for the first few pulls. So next group I leap in, and am about to smash. Before I can, the Sage dps whizzes in and force waves the group. UGH. Spreads them out everywhere. Turns into a real mess of a pull as I try and re-gain aggro on whatever I can.

 

After that, he continued to rush ahead and pull before me/the group (starting with force wave, of course). So, not feeling up to asking him to wait for me/us (truthfully I was hoping someone else would say it), I encouraged him to initiate all fights. Even the boss. So he did, and I'd run up to a single mob and spam Strike on it (and I still stole threat). Healer was getting pounded, but still nobody said anything.

 

We down the boss-with-dogs (with me only tanking properly the 2nd half), and Sage inspects me while waiting for the healer.

"[Me}, what kind of mods you using? You have low hp for a tank" (I had 2nd highest, but, c'mon - you don't need to be blinged out for Mando SM). He asks again if I'm sure I don't want to tank; again, I say yes, you can; and again, nobody else says anything.

 

At the area where you can slice the elevator, we all run straight through the middle. The other dps wanders too far and takes us into combat. Sage runs back and force waves a turret and someone else cc's the other one. We clean up everything except the cc'd turret, so I turn around to engage.

 

But, my group is gone...they moved on! We're still in combat, and the turret is still there twitching, but they all move on. My jaw hit the table. Then it went through to table to fhe floor, and.. anyway, I kept quiet and followed them. (Did I miss some trick to lose aggro from that like in Cademimu?)

 

We get to the boarding party (the entire way in combat). The healer suddenly apologizes, saying he's still getting used to healing instead of dps.

Me: "You're doing a great job, considering a dps is pulling all the fights"

Sage: "Picking up the tanking slack"

There was... too much to say in response to that, and even if I replied, I'm sure he lacked any capacity to understand it. All I could say was "mhhmm"

Sage: "ready?"

Me: "Nah, I'm gonna leave." Oh wait, still in combat. Alt F4.

 

Perhaps I should have spoken up, and not left, or at least explained my reason for leaving. But, if nobody else said a single word the entire time, with me making extremely non-subtle remarks about this Sage's behavior, would they have understood?

Edited May 19, 2014 by BigBreakfast

Tanking on my lowbie Guardian, Mando raiders.

 

Things were going fine for the first few pulls. So next group I leap in, and am about to smash. Before I can, the Sage dps whizzes in and force waves the group. UGH. Spreads them out everywhere. Turns into a real mess of a pull as I try and re-gain aggro on whatever I can.

 

After that, he continued to rush ahead and pull before me/the group (starting with force wave, of course). So, not feeling up to asking him to wait for me/us (truthfully I was hoping someone else would say it), I encouraged him to initiate all fights. Even the boss. So he did, and I'd run up to a single mob and spam Strike on it (and I still stole threat). Healer was getting pounded, but still nobody said anything.

 

We down the boss-with-dogs (with me only tanking properly the 2nd half), and Sage inspects me while waiting for the healer.

"[Me}, what kind of mods you using? You have low hp for a tank" (I had 2nd highest, but, c'mon - you don't need to be blinged out for Mando SM). He asks again if I'm sure I don't want to tank; again, I say yes, you can; and again, nobody else says anything.

 

At the area where you can slice the elevator, we all run straight through the middle. The other dps wanders too far and takes us into combat. Sage runs back and force waves a turret and someone else cc's the other one. We clean up everything except the cc'd turret, so I turn around to engage.

 

But, my group is gone...they moved on! We're still in combat, and the turret is still there twitching, but they all move on. My jaw hit the table. Then it went through to table to fhe floor, and.. anyway, I kept quiet and followed them. (Did I miss some trick to lose aggro from that like in Cademimu?)

 

We get to the boarding party (the entire way in combat). The healer suddenly apologizes, saying he's still getting used to healing instead of dps.

Me: "You're doing a great job, considering a dps is pulling all the fights"

Sage: "Picking up the tanking slack"

There was... too much to say in response to that, and even if I replied, I'm sure he lacked any capacity to understand it. All I could say was "mhhmm"

Sage: "ready?"

Me: "Nah, I'm gonna leave." Oh wait, still in combat. Alt F4.

 

Perhaps I should have spoken up, and not left, or at least explained my reason for leaving. But, if nobody else said a single word the entire time, with me making extremely non-subtle remarks about this Sage's behavior, would they have understood?

 

 

Master, teach me your ways

I was doing a lowbe flashpoint the other day on JC and got a tank that was rping a rich bounty hunter and he was rolling need on all items even the greens! I asked him why he was doing that and he said he had to get rich some how. So I told him this, This is not a roll play server if you want to do that go somewhere else you look like a ninja to us. He said ok and whe got another drop and he needed on it again. I left. I will just level alone now

Im politely ask in group: "Whats wrong?"

And once again i understand that KDY is evil...

Answer was - Tanks cannot wear light armor, noob! L2P!

 

Most weird part of my story, that votekick is ACCEPTED!!!

 

I don't know if those guys was trolling or something, but fact is a fact - there are some people who think that shadow/sin cannot be tanks...

 

Sounds like you were better off being kicked, you were in a group that would have provided a truly epic post for this thread.

Do u not understand mmos???" "stop using snipe, use ur close range you moron" "are you deaf as well as stupid?? ur close range, not ranged ffs"

 

Note this is all against ONE group of mobs.

 

Once we're done, I reply something along the lines of "I dunno what you mean, I'm playing my class fine."

If you used Snipe as a DPS Operative you weren't doing your rotation correctly. He was still overreacting and a bit of a jerk though.

 

Source: http://dulfy.net/2014/01/04/swtor-lethality-and-concealment-operative-dps-class-guide/

I know that someone might find this really funny, but it starting to bother me...

 

Was queued for HM FP on my sin tank (geared of course).

Team was: sniper, oper and jugg.

 

 

I got Cademimu.

I was ready to begin first pull and suddenly this happend...

 

Vote kick with note - not a tank. Coming from jugg.

 

I was a little confused. Checking my gear - all good. Check stance - dark charge. 43k HP.

All good as it should be.

 

Im politely ask in group: "Whats wrong?"

And once again i understand that KDY is evil...

Answer was - Tanks cannot wear light armor, noob! L2P!

 

Most weird part of my story, that votekick is ACCEPTED!!!

 

I don't know if those guys was trolling or something, but fact is a fact - there are some people who think that shadow/sin cannot be tanks...

 

I would suggest its other sin "tanks" that are letting you down.

I use jugg to tank on Imp and Vang on Rep (prefer Vang, can position myself to see everything, dont have to stand in the middle of the enemies to hold the aggro).

 

But the number of times I run as DPS or healer and see sin/shadow "tank" granted they are in dark charge, but why is it whenever a sin tank gets as low as 60% do they pop stealth and run away. Im afraid sin tanks get a bad image due to the number of people who click the "Im playing tank role" box to get their quick pop, they pull because "thats what tanks do" but apart from that?

 

And I myself have wondered why BW stated sin/shadow is a tank class (light armour and shealth, with 1 of their most powerful lightsaber attacks only works if your behind enemy, meaning either you have lost aggro and need to steal it back or that ability is completely redundant.)

 

Having said that, jugg kicking you for having light armour? what a tard, especially as he clearly could have queued tank but decided its too much like hard work.

I would suggest its other sin "tanks" that are letting you down.

I use jugg to tank on Imp and Vang on Rep (prefer Vang, can position myself to see everything, dont have to stand in the middle of the enemies to hold the aggro).

 

But the number of times I run as DPS or healer and see sin/shadow "tank" granted they are in dark charge, but why is it whenever a sin tank gets as low as 60% do they pop stealth and run away. Im afraid sin tanks get a bad image due to the number of people who click the "Im playing tank role" box to get their quick pop, they pull because "thats what tanks do" but apart from that?

 

And I myself have wondered why BW stated sin/shadow is a tank class (light armour and shealth, with 1 of their most powerful lightsaber attacks only works if your behind enemy, meaning either you have lost aggro and need to steal it back or that ability is completely redundant.)

 

Having said that, jugg kicking you for having light armour? what a tard, especially as he clearly could have queued tank but decided its too much like hard work.

 

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/sith-inquisitor/assassin/darkness/talent-build

 

I advise you to look at the talent called conspirator's cloak, second row from the top. it should answer your maul question. in addition - the fact that as a tank your job is to build threat, not to deal as much damage as possible, and there are abilities sin tanks have that accomplish that much better then maul. wither, shock, etc.

 

Assassins are interesting tanks when played well with some pretty kickbutt cooldowns (and no, cloaking is not one of them, but force shroud for example is. so I can totally see why bioware made cloth wearers capable of tanking. they are sadly not always played well. however. I've ran with bad tanks of all classes, so its not limited to assassins. even if the latest "tank" that made me facepalm and put them on ignore was madness assassin in mostly dps gear, not even a shield, staying in madness spec. still I wouldn't have minded too much, if they at least grabbed everything, or if dps helped, but noooo... healer tank ftw >_> /ahem. aaaaanyways

And I myself have wondered why BW stated sin/shadow is a tank class (light armour and shealth, with 1 of their most powerful lightsaber attacks only works if your behind enemy, meaning either you have lost aggro and need to steal it back or that ability is completely redundant.)

 

Shadow Wrap, a high end talent in the tank tree, makes Shadow Strike/Maul usable from in front of the mob.

If you used Snipe as a DPS Operative you weren't doing your rotation correctly. He was still overreacting and a bit of a jerk though.

 

Source: http://dulfy.net/2014/01/04/swtor-lethality-and-concealment-operative-dps-class-guide/

 

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. If you read the post closely, he wasn't even using Snipe; he was using Rifle Shots while closing in on a target.

Shadow Wrap, a high end talent in the tank tree, makes Shadow Strike/Maul usable from in front of the mob.

 

Shadow Wrap®! Keep sandwiches fresher, longer!

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. If you read the post closely, he wasn't even using Snipe; he was using Rifle Shots while closing in on a target.

 

Or maybe QUick Shot (can't remember op name)

But the number of times I run as DPS or healer and see sin/shadow "tank" granted they are in dark charge, but why is it whenever a sin tank gets as low as 60% do they pop stealth and run away. Im afraid sin tanks get a bad image due to the number of people who click the "Im playing tank role" box to get their quick pop, they pull because "thats what tanks do" but apart from that?

 

I only do this as DPS. As a tank? In KDY, at ~15%. Normal FPs? I will go down if healer refuses to heal me.

Why? Force Cloak + Blackout = you exit combat, dps/healer gets aggro.

AFAIK, that's not "tank's job".

 

And I myself have wondered why BW stated sin/shadow is a tank class (light armour and shealth, with 1 of their most powerful lightsaber attacks only works if your behind enemy, meaning either you have lost aggro and need to steal it back or that ability is completely redundant.)

 

Dealing damage isn't important for tank. Threat. It's the only thing that matters. Maul/Shadow Strike is kinda useless without the proc anyway unless the enemy is almost dead. But even at lower levels you can always stun the enemy and run forward -> Maul/Shadow Strike -> run back to where you were before. For single target threat you already have your killer ability: Shock/Project. For AoE threat you have Wither/Slow Time and Discharge/Force Breach

Edited May 20, 2014 by Halinalle

I would suggest its other sin "tanks" that are letting you down.

I use jugg to tank on Imp and Vang on Rep (prefer Vang, can position myself to see everything, dont have to stand in the middle of the enemies to hold the aggro).

 

Shadow tank > everything else in the game, kthx.

Or maybe QUick Shot (can't remember op name)

Overload Shot. But yeah, both that and Rifle Shot are ok when you have exhausted other abilities with more priority or are closing in from range. The poster I quoted was a bit vague regarding if he really used Snipe or not, though. Only at the end he mentions "standard blaster attack".

Edited May 20, 2014 by Strajder

It's not that difficult to see if it was Snipe or default attack because to use Snipe you have to stop.

Last night, Kaon Under Siege HM, grouped up with a lvl 50 shadow dps 13k hp, 54 dps vanguard 16k hp, 55 shadow tank 20k hp, me on my sage all 180 gear queued as healer with 2 piece set bonus. 55 tank starts instance by pulling first group at doorway, okay whatever guess they decided to give the lowbies the bonus quests, fine with me.

 

Continue forward and start killing things that are way out of the path and not even close to needed for the bonus. As we move forward i notice all the mobs are glowing with the taunt animation to start combat... tank is constantly losing aggro to the level 50 shadow with 13k hp... we get to the first "boss" cutscene and i get all the aggro while dps start killing low mobs. Move to the first rakghoul ambush and everyone gets hit by the exploding plaguebearers, dps learn their lesson quickly tank does not. To this point I have managed to keep everyone alive; however, guessing people have not done this instance before because there is no telltale holding back a bit where any of the ambushes pop and one of the dps dies during these attacks. Tank continues moving forward and initiates combat before the dps is rezzed and cause i was rezzing the one dps the other dies in the new pull.

 

At this point I start typing in chat, no one has been interrupting anything and the tank can't hold aggro. Not only can he not hold aggro but he never pulls from stealth and never uses tk throw to get Shadowed Protection. I ask if he could do so and for the very next pull, they run up out of stealth and initiate combat with tk throw... fail. I put in chat to use it with three stacks of harnessed shadows... tank quits group instantly. I pull out nadia, requeue us and happiness ensues till bonus boss. Bonus boss is going fine and everyone stays alive until a tank pops for our q and nadia disappears lol, two dps die and I run for my life until the tank gets in range and aggroes the boss and adds, dps run back and we kill boss through enrage. Finish instance without further issues. Kudos to the dps for sticking it out and following directions after the tank dropped!

 

Shadow tank fail, it would be awesome if people in this game would actually take the time to read the skill in the skill tree when they get to them... k thanks!

Edited May 20, 2014 by g_land

Shadow tank fail, it would be awesome if people in this game would actually take the time to read the skill in the skill tree when they get to them... k thanks!

 

Are you dreaming bro??? People + reading + skill + taking time in the same sentance, are you crazy??

Empire, 55HM Hammer Station.

 

Not particularly weird enough, but worth telling. Went as Marauder Healer. Heeeeeeeh. So anyways seeing I'm the only odd one out of the three ladies(?) with 27k HP, this should allow me to #maratankhealerDPS. Cleared entrance trash mobs. Then the Sniper DPS said that the Pyrotech Tank should guard me cause I'm gonna rip agro like mad. No Guards. Went pretty smooth until the 1st big droid boss. Operative Healer didn't cleanse Droid's laser, tank down. Told her about the cleanse and her response was "on CD". I further explained the rotation and the way the cleansing works. Three wipes later, she finally got it. Yay!

 

Sniper DPS accidentally pulled a group of mobs, tank went down, and quits. I bring out my Jaesa and mara tanked for abit. Another tank joins in and she was alot better. Guarded me and everything went pretty smoothly after. Me and the Sniper further explained how to Operative heals and last boss was a breeze. I'm proud of the Healer cause she picks up quick.

 

 

Republic, 55HM Cademimu

 

I always hated this FP cause it's long and tedious. Went in as Scoundrel Heals and skipped most of the mobs. It was 30 minutes before maintenance. I know the Guardian tank from a friend of mine, and knew that she's not a good tank. Challenge, I suppose. Me and the two DPS did our share of tanking cause she's... well. Up to the last boss Ortol. I had hoped that he wasn't bugged and boy I was wrong. Each time he shackles us, all 4 of us got it. We had to time our CC breakers by turns and it was not pleasant. 5 wipes later, tank died but we got through it.

 

This is the part where I completely lose it. 2 minutes before maintenance, I tried to ress the tank with 1 second left of the ress channeling, but instead she respawned / released, walked back and got into combat while we were desperately waiting for the 10 second channel of Exit Area. Yep, our Exit Area got cancelled, so we all quit the group but too late, by the time we got to the fleet boom the server goes down. We all didn't manage to submit our weekly. I was truly angry at that time cause that tank is acting beyond stupid........

 

/creis evrytiem.

he never pulls from stealth

 

Is there any other reason to do this other than Shadow's Respite?

Is there any other reason to do this other than Shadow's Respite?

 

Once you're at level 40, you get access to Shadow Wrap/Conspirator's Cloak. Yeah, it's the skill that lets you use Shadow Strike/Maul for cheap and while facing enemies (procced by Double Strike/Thrash and Spinning Strike/Assassinate, 10s rate limit). Pretty neat, right?

Well, that talent also gives you stacks of Shadow Protection/Dark Protection when you come out of stealth. Really quite useful; it saves you from having to wait 6 GCDs (9 seconds) to get all your buffs up.

seems some people misunderstood my post on sin/shadow tanks, ill try explain myself better.

 

I understand there are bad tanks in each class, just I feel bad sin tanks are worse than bad jugg or bad PT. Simply from my opinion that there is a lot less incentive for sin to hold arrgo

1. They have a larger array of threat reducers (jugg has 1, shadow has 3 including stealth, so I assume sin has 3 too).

2. IMO they take damage faster than the other 2 tank classes.

3. Their self-heals seem less effective (though on that point, sorc healers PLEASE DONT POP STATIC BARRIER ON A JUGG WHEN IT HAS ENRAGED DEFENCE ON!!!!!!!).

4. The basic fact that sin doesnt get its tanking stance until level 14 (granted its only 4 levels behind the other 2 tanks but still, if someone specs as a tank class shouldnt they be allowed to tank straight away?

 

As such I believe bad sin tanks are worse than bad other tanks as they have more options to drop aggro if they wanted to, which results in a bad reputation for all those that want to tank. I myself still find when that group pops up with a sin in the tank role im always waiting to see if they are actually a tank and, afraid to say more often than not they will stealth during the middle of the fight, run off then flame on the healer.

 

An when i stated that the most damaging melee attack can only be done behind, I pointed that out as I always find keeping aggro is alot easier if your DPS is reasonably high.

Edited May 20, 2014 by BobFredJohn

Is there any other reason to do this other than Shadow's Respite?

 

Shadow/Sin tanks get 4 stacks of damage reduction after coming out of stealth. It's best to have those stacks up at the start of combat because it will be many GCDs before the 4 stacks can be gained from TK/Force Lightning.

seems some people misunderstood my post on sin/shadow tanks, ill try explain myself better.

 

I understand there are bad tanks in each class, just I feel bad sin tanks are worse than bad jugg or bad PT. Simply from my opinion that there is a lot less incentive for sin to hold arrgo

1. They have a larger array of threat reducers (jugg has 1, shadow has 3 including stealth, so I assume sin has 3 too).

2. IMO they take damage faster than the other 2 tank classes.

3. Their self-heals seem less effective (though on that point, sorc healers PLEASE DONT POP STATIC BARRIER ON A JUGG WHEN IT HAS ENRAGED DEFENCE ON!!!!!!!).

4. The basic fact that sin doesnt get its tanking stance until level 14 (granted its only 4 levels behind the other 2 tanks but still, if someone specs as a tank class shouldnt they be allowed to tank straight away?

 

As such I believe bad sin tanks are worse than bad other tanks as they have more options to drop aggro if they wanted to, which results in a bad reputation for all those that want to tank. I myself still find when that group pops up with a sin in the tank role im always waiting to see if they are actually a tank and, afraid to say more often than not they will stealth during the middle of the fight, run off then flame on the healer.

 

An when i stated that the most damaging melee attack can only be done behind, I pointed that out as I always find keeping aggro is alot easier if your DPS is reasonably high.

 

Honestly, when it comes to bad tanks I fear bad jug tanks most since they have very limited ability to hold aggro compared to the other 2. I can heal one person taking a lot of damage (i.e. bad Sin tank) but not me and both dps taking damage (i.e. bad Jug tank). Sin tanks actually have higher DPS than Jugs if they are doing their rotation correctly. I've never had a sin tank stealth out on the group, but I have seen Jug and Powertech tanks who get tunnel vision and chain pull without waiting for the healer.

I have had several Laughable PUG's, from the Consular / Shadow / Sage, and the Inquisitor / Assassin / Sorcerer classes being the most laughable... the problem is people dont read when they queue, they just click the Queue now button, so unless your playing a DPS spec ONLY class like Sentinel / Marauder it will fill in both jobs... it isnt always just a newb that has no clue, but an inherant flaw in the queue system, it shouldnt autofill the job, it should make you select which one, before allowing you to queue...

 

I made the mistake myself, playing my Sorc, I queued as DPS / Healer thinking hey I have heals... boy was I mistaken, and the party let me know... I was Madness Specced, and my ghetto heals weren't cutting it, we died many times, but eventually made it through Foundry HM... I have since learned though... however it is unfortunate that many people dont or wont learn, and will continue to make this very same mistake.

I concur that Guardian/Juggernaut bads are the most dangerous bad tank. They have relatively limited AoE abilities and rely almost exclusively on 4m abilities with very few options at 10+m, which is a recipe for loss of aggro on adds; it's easy to get out of their narrow range, and once an add does, it's hard to gather it back in.

 

On the topic of people thoughtlessly queueing as both roles...there used to be a bug, in the early days of groupfinder, that would randomly reset your role selections. I kept getting pops as healer when I'd only queued as DPS...every now and again I'd click "ready" by mistake and have to apologize to a group and drop. But then they fixed the bug and I learned to heal, so it's all good.