Darth_Nihilis Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Currently running the 1/12/28 hybrid dps build for pve. With all the changes to the trees looks like they are pushing lightning a bit more. So will the hybrid build/rotation still be viable for strong dps or should we switch over to lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=020000000000000000000000000000000323020002000000000000000000000003022322013100010122032002000000&ver=20 I don't see how something like this is that dissimilar to the current build. The rotation won't be the same (lightning strike can hit pretty hard now). As for if it can match lightning spec in single target? Not really knowing the new rotation and when to use lightning strike or shock, I have no idea, but I doubt it. Lightning spec seems to have gotten a monstrous damage increase (thundering blast used to burst for 4.6 k like clockwork...and now it can hit twice...crushing darkness doubleticks...polarity shift is available more often). Even the filler skill hits 25% harder. Lightning may very well outdamage powertechs at this point. Possibly snipers. The only sorc skill that didn't get a buff is force lightning, so it might be that barrage is a lot less valuable than going full madness or full lightning. Edited February 22, 2013 by Larry_Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvan Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Previously I've been running a dot based death field build, with a few points in lightening to lower my costs and boost damage. With the changes to Madness tree (almost all of them bad) I feel I need to slip more into lightening. Now I don't know how viable this build will be without testing, certainly I expect to run into force regen problems in really long fights, but potentially this has the scope to dish out some massively dps, and most of that mobile burst ( with a bit of setup on the proc front, but still) The idea of being able to dish out an instant death field, affliction and then with a blast of force lightening an instant crushing darkness, then with another blast of force lightening lightening strike which would hopefully make my chain lightening instant....well, that is kinda nuts. I know a fair chunk of that is dependant on procs and you still need to channel the force lightening, but still. It might work out. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000323022002100012000000000000000003022302013120010122030000000000&ver=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireswraith Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I tried this hybrid on the PTS, 0/30/16. So far it's pretty bad *****; double shocks/lightning strikes/chain lightnings, deathfield, no cd force lightning, wraith proc. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000321022002120212023021020000000003020302013100010000000000000000&ver=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) I will probably go 2/16/28. Fairly sure instant CL will be a better addition than 4% alacrity, and suffision being lower you have no need to go higher than lightning storm imo. The 2 points in corruption will go either on alac or crit. I'm downloading pts tonight to see how it fares. Edited February 23, 2013 by verfallen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagleplayer Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yes all the specs should scale I think and hybrid will get even better with more points to mess around with. I did some parses with the specs above and it just didn't work as well as plain hybrid. The problem is that instant chain lightning needs lightning strikes and you are forced to use wrath on lightning strike which creates issues with trying to keep crushing darkness up and using lightning strike during its cool down along with force lightning to get procs which sometimes don't happen and you end up with chain lightning sitting on your bar for no reason and all the skills in the lightning tree are wasted. It just come down to the fact that using 2 different fillers for 2 different things just doesn't work as well. I'm not saying they are terrible just not as good as plain hybrid. This is the spec I used for hybrid and this is a parse using it. The other specs above didn't do much worse, I managed to keep around 2500 with them which isn't that bad and they might even be more useful with adds and trash when it comes to chain lightning, we'll just have to wait and see, after all this is just on a dummy which is only gives you a general idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry_Dallas Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yes all the specs should scale I think and hybrid will get even better with more points to mess around with. I did some parses with the specs above and it just didn't work as well as plain hybrid. The problem is that instant chain lightning needs lightning strikes and you are forced to use wrath on lightning strike which creates issues with trying to keep crushing darkness up and using lightning strike during its cool down along with force lightning to get procs which sometimes don't happen and you end up with chain lightning sitting on your bar for no reason and all the skills in the lightning tree are wasted. It just come down to the fact that using 2 different fillers for 2 different things just doesn't work as well. I'm not saying they are terrible just not as good as plain hybrid. This is the spec I used for hybrid and this is a parse using it. The other specs above didn't do much worse, I managed to keep around 2500 with them which isn't that bad and they might even be more useful with adds and trash when it comes to chain lightning, we'll just have to wait and see, after all this is just on a dummy which is only gives you a general idea. What did you do for itemization, if you don't mind my asking? Not looking for an AMR profile, just a quick and dirty summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yes all the specs should scale I think and hybrid will get even better with more points to mess around with. I did some parses with the specs above and it just didn't work as well as plain hybrid. The problem is that instant chain lightning needs lightning strikes and you are forced to use wrath on lightning strike which creates issues with trying to keep crushing darkness up and using lightning strike during its cool down along with force lightning to get procs which sometimes don't happen and you end up with chain lightning sitting on your bar for no reason and all the skills in the lightning tree are wasted. It just come down to the fact that using 2 different fillers for 2 different things just doesn't work as well. I'm not saying they are terrible just not as good as plain hybrid. This is the spec I used for hybrid and this is a parse using it. The other specs above didn't do much worse, I managed to keep around 2500 with them which isn't that bad and they might even be more useful with adds and trash when it comes to chain lightning, we'll just have to wait and see, after all this is just on a dummy which is only gives you a general idea. I'm actually in a progression raid team with 0/18/23 currently. Most people say as you do, but i get the number I need for a place on the raid team, and I constantly beat my pure madness spec parse with it. I actually like it because its complex, so fun to play, and mobile. EVERYTHING gets a boost. Damage wise, but also % wise. CL is mostly used as a nice burst filler, or your numbers drop. Using LS with wrath is probably a big enough hitter now dps wise, so even a 2-3 sec delay on CD is probably not that much of a loss over a wrath siting in your bar for 10 seconds. As said, downloading tonight so I'll see how it fares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) I tried this hybrid on the PTS, 0/30/16. So far it's pretty bad *****; double shocks/lightning strikes/chain lightnings, deathfield, no cd force lightning, wraith proc. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000321022002120212023021020000000003020302013100010000000000000000&ver=20 I also found myself in this build after experimenting around with hybrids and it will be an awesome burst pvp build IMO. The buffed up lightning strike with 30% extra crit dmg from wrath hits like a truck as does chain lightning not to mention you also get death field in the deal. To me it seems like you wouldn't even use crushing darkness all that much in this because of how hard lightning strike can burst and ofc insta chain lightning procs.. I'm not sure if bioware even intended for lightning strike to hit so hard under a hybrid build. No idea how it compares to others but i think in pvp this build will be very nice since its all instant and the buffed up lightning strike gives alot of burst when it crits Heres a quick very sloppy vid (on a sage though which is lvl 45 on live.. couldnt get my sorc accross) i did trying to demonstrate the burst potential of this spec. Obviously with full lvl 55 gear it will hit even harder and crit more. For pve i'm not too sure but i can def see this working well in pvp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjTMq86vK58&feature=youtu.be Edited February 23, 2013 by AngusFTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppFreeloader Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm looking at that build and asking myself if there would be a way to get six points into corruption for sap strength, which would be a great survival tool. Also, putting two points in Corruption could make Overload a heal, which might be helpful. Still playing with the build I am thinking of, but I am almost certain I will be going Hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phinub Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I also found myself in this build after experimenting around with hybrids and it will be an awesome burst pvp build IMO. The buffed up lightning strike with 30% extra crit dmg from wrath hits like a truck as does chain lightning not to mention you also get death field in the deal. To me it seems like you wouldn't even use crushing darkness all that much in this because of how hard lightning strike can burst and ofc insta chain lightning procs.. I'm not sure if bioware even intended for lightning strike to hit so hard under a hybrid build. No idea how it compares to others but i think in pvp this build will be very nice since its all instant and the buffed up lightning strike gives alot of burst when it crits This. LS seems to hit about as hard as deathfield with creeping death. Even if it doesn't crit and you're missing out of the reverberating force bonus damage it still hits harder than shock. I've hit LS for over 5k on the pvp dummy (which is still lvl 50 though) and generally found myself neglecting crushing darkness. Haven't tried it in pvp yet though, i'll do that once they fix the bolster bug. Apart from the removal of instant whirlwind I'm very positive about these changes to the DPS trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosajoshua Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Guildie is gonne use a 3/18/26 tree when 2.0 is live but as I havent been Hybrid since 1.2 and am Madness I dont see how itll work as well. Dont get me wrong LS buffs now are completely viable for hybrid then it becomes a choice of using Wrath with CD or LS. Idk if anyone will still CL with 2.0 hybrids but idk i think the general boosts to Lighning and Madness make for better spec choices in 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=010000000000000000000000000000000320120202120212003220020000000003020302013100010000000000000000&ver=20 is what im thinking since ROOTS dont affect resolve i see this build being very annoying to people with electric bindings and the immobilize on chain lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralParmesan Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I'm actually in a progression raid team with 0/18/23 currently. Most people say as you do, but i get the number I need for a place on the raid team, and I constantly beat my pure madness spec parse with it. I actually like it because its complex, so fun to play, and mobile. EVERYTHING gets a boost. Damage wise, but also % wise. CL is mostly used as a nice burst filler, or your numbers drop. Using LS with wrath is probably a big enough hitter now dps wise, so even a 2-3 sec delay on CD is probably not that much of a loss over a wrath siting in your bar for 10 seconds. As said, downloading tonight so I'll see how it fares. This is what I am thinking. Sadly I can't play on the pts with my sorc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 This is what I am thinking. Sadly I can't play on the pts with my sorc Yah my sorc got borked. I had to level a new one on the PTS. Rushed through korriban, and hit the level booster, took me a night. The main difference I saw is even with un-augmented gear, not min-maxed I see very hard hitting DF and LS. However, in single target fights barrage struggles to proc due to lower crit, and power is even more worthy of being stacked with the new steep DR. Accuracy being needed also force a dent in your surge/alacrity, and alacrity becoming useful adds very much to the dilemna. I do find single-target dps compares very well to even anni mara, and if you add a second enemy just trump it. A very good anni mara will still do more damage than you hammering at something. However fight mechanics other than absolute dps stop will barely affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Nihilis Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 what is the 3/18/26 spec if you dont mind me asking? Also is our rotation still basically. Afflictionm Force Lightning for Wrath Proc. Death Field and then CD. And only use LS when CD is on cool down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 what is the 3/18/26 spec if you dont mind me asking? Also is our rotation still basically. Afflictionm Force Lightning for Wrath Proc. Death Field and then CD. And only use LS when CD is on cool down? Curious about this as well. But without people posting parses it's hard to see for yourself what they are doing right or what you are doing wrong. I read somewhere around here that SHOCK put into the rotation is a DPS gain. Also that the CL build is a DPS increase over just getting Lightning Effusion and Lightning Barrage in the Lightning tree. I tested both and did less dps. Would be great to see some of their parses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I also found myself in this build after experimenting around with hybrids and it will be an awesome burst pvp build IMO. The buffed up lightning strike with 30% extra crit dmg from wrath hits like a truck as does chain lightning not to mention you also get death field in the deal. To me it seems like you wouldn't even use crushing darkness all that much in this because of how hard lightning strike can burst and ofc insta chain lightning procs.. I'm not sure if bioware even intended for lightning strike to hit so hard under a hybrid build. No idea how it compares to others but i think in pvp this build will be very nice since its all instant and the buffed up lightning strike gives alot of burst when it crits Heres a quick very sloppy vid (on a sage though which is lvl 45 on live.. couldnt get my sorc accross) i did trying to demonstrate the burst potential of this spec. Obviously with full lvl 55 gear it will hit even harder and crit more. For pve i'm not too sure but i can def see this working well in pvp. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjTMq86vK58&feature=youtu.be I ll take your word for it because Madness looks inadequate for current 2.0 Edited February 27, 2013 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Nihilis Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 Anyone have the build they are talking about as link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireswraith Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 3/18/26 is impossible, that gives 47 spec points when there is only a total of 46. My guess is he meant 3/18/25 which is probably something like this. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/236/?build=030000000000000000000000000000000320122002120210000000000000000003222302013100010122000000000000&ver=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) So did some testing. just as in 1,7, going for a heavy lightning build and up madness just for wrath is really not worth it. Basically, you are hoping RNG gods will love you enough to give you enough wrath proc to keep Crushing Darkness on cooldown, AND keep LS force damage bonus up. If in my parse I consider the time between a polarity shift burst, its just not happening. Sometimes, I can proceed with a normal madness rotation. other time I have to break it in order to fall in a lightning rotation and keep the buff up, because wrath was too shy. (in between all other attack, affliction DoT refresh, etc, consider the first 10 sec of CD's cooldown as the *LS wrath* period. I normally have both affliction and DF to refresh then. So thats 3 sec off. I now have 7 second left to cast 2 FL. 9x30% chance of getting Wrath. Lets say I normally get it. I then have 30% chance of the refresh. Lets say I don't get it, I have a 60% chance of getting an instant CL who can get me the refresh (another 30%)) If that fails, next rotation I'll be within 10 sec of losing the buff, and said buff is, in the end, only compensating for the DoT damage I loss from higher up madness talents.) When I do that, I'm a poor lightning spec. Alternatively, I'll miss a DF or a CD cooldown. Its ackward, and takes way too much focus (which harder ops don't allow you if you need to pay attention to things in your environmment) and stupid luck. The sole good point of the spec is the burst compared to madness, but guess what? Lightning does it better than you do. For me, the 2/16/28 hybrid seems to be doing the best. Powerful Deathfields, mobility, instant LS/CL when the proc loves you, but if they don't for a while, its not rotation breaking. You have less on demand burst, but the sustained is significantly better. In summary : I don't see specs we see shared around like 2/28/16 in any other place than a pvp arena. In THAT I suppose the spec will have a lot of potential to burn someone with polarity shift up. LS spam/CL/DF/shock is a lot of damage very fast. Edited February 28, 2013 by verfallen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralParmesan Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) So did some testing. just as in 1,7, going for a heavy lightning build and up madness just for wrath is really not worth it. Basically, you are hoping RNG gods will love you enough to give you enough wrath proc to keep Crushing Darkness on cooldown, AND keep LS force damage bonus up. If in my parse I consider the time between a polarity shift burst, its just not happening. Sometimes, I can proceed with a normal madness rotation. other time I have to break it in order to fall in a lightning rotation and keep the buff up, because wrath was too shy. (in between all other attack, affliction DoT refresh, etc, consider the first 10 sec of CD's cooldown as the *LS wrath* period. I normally have both affliction and DF to refresh then. So thats 3 sec off. I now have 7 second left to cast 2 FL. 9x30% chance of getting Wrath. Lets say I normally get it. I then have 30% chance of the refresh. Lets say I don't get it, I have a 60% chance of getting an instant CL who can get me the refresh (another 30%)) If that fails, next rotation I'll be within 10 sec of losing the buff, and said buff is, in the end, only compensating for the DoT damage I loss from higher up madness talents.) When I do that, I'm a poor lightning spec. Alternatively, I'll miss a DF or a CD cooldown. Its ackward, and takes way too much focus (which harder ops don't allow you if you need to pay attention to things in your environmment) and stupid luck. The sole good point of the spec is the burst compared to madness, but guess what? Lightning does it better than you do. For me, the 2/16/28 hybrid seems to be doing the best. Powerful Deathfields, mobility, instant LS/CL when the proc loves you, but if they don't for a while, its not rotation breaking. You have less on demand burst, but the sustained is significantly better. In summary : I don't see specs we see shared around like 2/28/16 in any other place than a pvp arena. In THAT I suppose the spec will have a lot of potential to burn someone with polarity shift up. LS spam/CL/DF/shock is a lot of damage very fast. just remember that chain lightning is also a source for the bonus damage proc. With the buffs to the lightning storm proc any time you see 3 targets near each other is basically a free chain lightning. As you said lightning strike is inconsistent to use on for this. Still I'll see for myself, I'll probably be trying this build sometime this afternoon, but as a full lightning junkie I can't get over the buffs to my favorite spec. on a side not the crit rating nerf makes me Edited February 28, 2013 by AdmiralParmesan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 just remember that chain lightning is also a source for the bonus damage proc. With the buffs to the lightning storm proc any time you see 3 targets near each other is basically a free chain lightning. As you said lightning strike is inconsistent to use on for this. Still I'll see for myself, I'll probably be trying this build sometime this afternoon, but as a full lightning junkie I can't get over the buffs to my favorite spec. on a side not the crit rating nerf makes me LS proc lightning storm much more now, so the 2/16/28 works very well. Also I'm thinking of raid builds. If they fix the crit % perhaps the build will have more value from the 50% crit bonus on LS/CL, but again I doubt it a bit. But I do not think a 6% damage overall manage to compensate the overall DoT bonus damage on DF, nor the extra crit damage on LS/CL, which you use significantly less when you have wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralParmesan Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) after hitting 1.2 million on my first game as hybrid dps I have to lean towards saying it is OP. Mind you that was a long game with some healer hitting 1,7 million but its a shame to see the hybrids will still outpace the full point specs. Edited March 1, 2013 by AdmiralParmesan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 after hitting 1.2 million on my first game as hybrid dps I have to lean towards saying it is OP. Mind you that was a long game with some healer hitting 1,7 million but its a shame to see the hybrids will still outpace the full point specs. We still have no idea yet what average wz will yield damage wise with new values and no DR on expertise. Before calling it OP, I'd wait. Its very aoe heavy, so you'll get very high number with that and affliction spam. I can tell you its better than before but far from OP on the dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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