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What is endgame progression and what do players want that is missing?


Freshtech

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One of the biggest criticisms I see on the forums is that people complain there is no endgame content or progression in TOR. This seems to be a big issue, as I even see a lot of people rush through leveling to get to the endgame stage, only to be disappointed. As this is my first ever MMO, I want to know what is endgame and what is missing in TOR that players want? What do other games do that TOR doesn't?

 

From what I gather, endgame is what you do after you've reached 50 and finished the class story, right? What would you like to see to keep you interested after doing that? The way I see it, legacy is the endgame, as it provides incentives to level alts and makes the process more interesting and less tedious. But it seems like a lot of people don't want to do this, and just want to keep playing one character.

Edited by Freshtech
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One of the biggest criticisms I see on the forums is that people complain there is no endgame content or progression in TOR. This seems to be a big issue, as I even see a lot of people rush through leveling to get to the endgame stage, only to be disappointed. As this is my first ever MMO, I want to know what is endgame and what is missing in TOR that players want? What do other games do that TOR doesn't?

 

From what I gather, endgame is what you do after you've reached 50 and finished the class story, right? What would you like to see to keep you interested after doing that? The way I see it, legacy is the endgame, as it provides incentives to level alts and makes the process more interesting and less tedious. But it seems like a lot of people don't want to do this, and just want to keep playing one character.

 

I'll try to respond as neutrally as possible, because I don't want to turn this into a big argument. I haven't raided in SWTOR, but I have raided in other games.

 

For PvE, the progression they're referring to is mainly operations (raiding). ("Raid" is a common MMO term, "Operations" is the SWTOR term for a raid). Raids have different levels of difficulty, and the gear that drops is better with each gear. So raiding progression is you work on one raid for a while, gearing up gradually, until you've beat it and everyone in your guild/raiding group has enough gear for the next raid, which will be tougher. And in some MMOs, it can be difficult - it's not uknown to spend months trying to clear out a certain raid, often wiping on a partiularly tough boss for many attempts over several weeks.

 

That system does exist in SWTOR - there are multiple Operations with different tiers. But it seems like many of the raiders out there feel the SWTOR ops are too easy - they clear out the entire raid in only a few attempts, get geared up quickly, and then have no new challenges. They're looking for an Operations that will take a few months for them to complete, not one that can be finished in 1 or 2 attempts.

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i think most people are used to EQ / WoW type raiding and that's pretty much what they were expecting in Swtor but it's totally different. Yes, once a guild learns the Operations, you can usually blow through them in 2-3 hours. Pretty easy to get Rakata geared in only a few raids, depending on drops.
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From my experiences, Endgame is where the game pretty much turns into level alternate characters

while talking with your guildies because Raid times are never when you can be on(due to work and RL),

and so you do things like help your lowbie guildies out, do crafting and such to help the guild.

Endgame progression is that constantly moving bar of what your guild wants you to have so you can raid, but

that you can never QUITE catch up to...because you weren't there for their first raids. In essence, Endgame is

the most frustrating part of the game for someone who does things other then play the game. Most of the people

who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or

are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing

else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put

the time in to be bored.

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I took my time reaching 50, started in the early access stage and got my first toon to 50 a week before 1.2 hit. I'm very casual (10-15 hrs a week) so I enjoy the stories. My guild runs a normal mode operation 1 day a week for fresh 50's and does 1 HM a week, the 3rd raid is based on who is available and what gear they have. Sometimes I do dailies, sometimes I level an alt (I enjoy the stories so it takes time to progress), sometimes I go to a low level planet to harvest materials for my alts to level their crafting skill, sometimes I PvP.

 

This game is perfect for a player like me because I dip into all aspects of the game and am not focused on one area. Thats where it seems the players are complaining, the PvE only or PvP only, only 1 character, or the hardcore crafters. End Game is whatever you want it to be, if you get bored doing the same raid go into a WZ, do a space mission, whatever floats your boat.

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From my experiences, Endgame is where the game pretty much turns into level alternate characters

while talking with your guildies because Raid times are never when you can be on(due to work and RL),

and so you do things like help your lowbie guildies out, do crafting and such to help the guild.

Endgame progression is that constantly moving bar of what your guild wants you to have so you can raid, but

that you can never QUITE catch up to...because you weren't there for their first raids. In essence, Endgame is

the most frustrating part of the game for someone who does things other then play the game. Most of the people

who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or

are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing

else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put

the time in to be bored.

 

My ops group has cleared hard mode everything, in 4 weeks worth of 8 hrs a week raiding. Quit being melodramatic. SWTOR is the casual raider's wet dream.

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Most of the people

who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or

are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing

else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put

the time in to be bored.

 

Also college kids on academic probation, soon-to-be divorced men, negligent parents, and military personnel with time on their hands.

 

Raiding is bad for your health. I hope this game keeps a light approach to it.

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I'm with you, PolishRifle. Weird work schedules can ruin any and every MMO if you try to keep up with the big dogs. I hate to see so many hardcore people unhappy, but for the casual/off-hour gamer, this game is great.

 

Feel like burning some time and making noobs smile and drool? Run them through Esseles (or the Imp version idk the name of) at lightspeed 2 or 3 times. (Ups your social score and light/dark side too)

 

Craft for your guild, craft for your alts, stalk the opposing faction in a doomed attempt to revive world pvp... the options are pretty good. If you don't mind low-no difficulty in your entertainment, there's no reason to be bored.

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it's not uknown to spend months trying to clear out a certain raid, often wiping on a partiularly tough boss for many attempts over several weeks..

 

This is where the disagreements come in; for me, the situation described above is not "fun," but rather a workable analog for Hell.

Edited by MMornard
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doing more with the legacy system or levelling alts is not endgame in the traditional sense (for me anyway, you may have a different opinion).

 

End game is improving your main character through gear upgrades via raids (or Ops in SWTOR). Raids take a while to clear as there are lockouts, resets, hard fights to learn and wipe on, getting the right number/group dynamic for the raid etc...

 

Usually once your guild has cleared the end game raid content its about the same time BW release the next tier of content. First came Eternity Vault and Karraga's Palace, then came Explosive Conflict raid.

 

EDIT: This is related to PVE, ofc for PVP you have warzones as endgame yet this is typically what people are complaining about. People also complain about the easymode of raids in this game too for PVE, as someone else said, people will find fault with anything and everything.

Edited by ssgrif
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The end game "everyone" has come to expect from experience in other MMOs is improving your main character through gear upgrades...

There, fixed your post. I think it's possibly because that's all there is to "look forward to" at levelcap that I've pretty much shelved the game. It's the curse of the themepark MMO, which SWTOR has taken to it's acme.

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So it seems that SWTOR's endgame content is too easy and too quickly completed? I see that endgame is important for the long-term health of the game, but I still don't understand why people would want to rush to get to the endgame? Is it more fun or do you just like having all your abilities? Because I've heard so much complaining about having nothing to do at endgame, I've been purposely playing through the game slowly, and despite having played since launch, have yet to get any characters to level 50. I keep making new alts to divert my attention, with the result of having two characters in the 40s and a new one at 16.
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