Hello, all!

Having and have always had a tank role at heart....I strive to do just that with the the sith inquisitor.

I would reallly like some advice on how to best build and play this stealthy tank.

All advice about builds, armor, rotations, etc would be helpful!

Also, any links to some great sith assasin tank guides would be appreciated.

-Ajahax

First thing, SA is not a MT, SA is a OT.

That is it.

Hello, all!

Having and have always had a tank role at heart....I strive to do just that with the the sith inquisitor.

 

I would reallly like some advice on how to best build and play this stealthy tank.

All advice about builds, armor, rotations, etc would be helpful!

 

Also, any links to some great sith assasin tank guides would be appreciated.

 

-Ajahax

I found this guide helpful. You CAN MT as an assassin.

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-Jedi-Shadow-Tanking-Compendium

However, because of the different mechanics certain classes are better at certain situations. Assassin tanks can hold aoe and main agro very well. Problem is they are the most prone to being spiked by one big hit. As the "avoidance" tank your always a few unlucky rolls away from taking 2 big hits and going down, which the mitigation tanks don't have to face as an issue.

That said, assassins have lots of activateable abilities and can be more reactive than their counterparts. Probably not the best tank for the hardest single target dps bosses around, but a good choice for some content nonetheless.

First thing, SA is not a MT, SA is a OT.

 

 

That is it.

2nd thing, please ignore this.

Check out the sticky in the Assasin forums. It's got some great information.

I'm personally leveling with the 25/0/16 hybrid built. From what I've heard (I just hit level 14), you don't need to level up as a "full tank" spec. You can go with a hybrid built or a variation.

You don't have to gimp your personal dps and leveling speed just to MT flashpoints.

Again, check out the sticky, it covers lots of good points and builts. I think there are 2 main builts: 31/0/10 and the hybrid that I mentioned.

If you're going with the hybrid built, finish the Darkness tree first, then go with Madness.

In terms of rotation, I was adv'd of this for my built:

25/0/16 – Tank/DPS hybrid

DPS:

1. Crushing Darkness (raze proc, no dot on target)

2. Recklessness (energize proc)

3. Shock (energize proc, <3 targets)

4. Dark ward (<2 seconds remaining, or 2 or fewer charges remaining)

5. Death field.

6. Crushing Darkness (raze proc, focus < 80, dot already on target)

7. Discharge (no dmg reduction debuff on target)

8. Thrash (single target and <3 targets, energy > 60)

9. Lacerate (3 or more targets)

10. Saber strike.

Tanking:

1. Dark ward (prior to pull, and whenever its about to fall off)

2. Discharge (no debuff on target, or debuff about to wear off)

3. Death Field

4. Crushing Darkness (raze proc).

5. continue with dps rotation here.

6. Discharge is one of your worst dps abilities. It is only useful for aoe threat and to keep the damage debuff up. The duration of the debuff is 18 seconds, the cd is 15 seconds. You can safely use another gcd (or two, but 1 to be safe) between the cd coming up and the debuff wearing off. It is lowest priority otherwise.

Now keep in mind, some of the abilities here won't be available until late 20s or early 30s.

So until then, try to maximize your damage/force and use your CDs wisely.

First thing, SA is not a MT, SA is a OT.

 

 

That is it.

You are so wrong...not only have the devs made it clear about 30 times that all tanks can be MTs but I have a SA tank lv 25 and (other than idiot dps warriors jumping in for the first hit) have had no trouble tanking, keeping aggro and staying alive.

I level with deception, but ive tanked the first 3 flashpoints and plenty of heroic quests so far without much problem. Just throw your shield generator on, turn on dark charge, guard someone and you're good.

I usually discharge from stealth to get aoe threat and keep it up for accuracy debuff, and mostly use thrash to keep up single target threat. Since I'm deception build shock is good threat w/ 2 stacks of induction. Lacerate is more good aoe threat at lvl 26. Force speed is helpful in knockback situations or against final boss of Mandalorian Raiders.

Nothing too ground breaking here.. I imagine at higher level content a deep Darkness build will be required for the extra armor, shield %, and other threat goodies. But yea after level 14 if you know how to hold agro and have a decent healer whose paying attention, you can MT anything in level range.

However, because of the different mechanics certain classes are better at certain situations. Assassin tanks can hold aoe and main agro very well. Problem is they are the most prone to being spiked by one big hit. As the "avoidance" tank your always a few unlucky rolls away from taking 2 big hits and going down, which the mitigation tanks don't have to face as an issue.

 

That said, assassins have lots of activateable abilities and can be more reactive than their counterparts. Probably not the best tank for the hardest single target dps bosses around, but a good choice for some content nonetheless.

SA's are not "avoidance tanks", they use a combination of talents and abilities to give them similar mitigation values to what are enjoyed by BHs and SWs. The reference to them having "slightly higher avoidance" combined with their base armor being "light" has created the very false perception that they depend on dodging.

I'll point out that there are two other MMOs that have mitigation-type tanks that do not wear the heaviest armors in their respective games. These tanks also use a combination of talents and class abilities to mimic the effect of heavy armor. When was the last time anyone ever confused a druid tank in WoW with an "evasion tank"?

However, because of the different mechanics certain classes are better at certain situations. Assassin tanks can hold aoe and main agro very well. Problem is they are the most prone to being spiked by one big hit. As the "avoidance" tank your always a few unlucky rolls away from taking 2 big hits and going down, which the mitigation tanks don't have to face as an issue.

 

That said, assassins have lots of activateable abilities and can be more reactive than their counterparts. Probably not the best tank for the hardest single target dps bosses around, but a good choice for some content nonetheless.

This kind of misinformation annoys me to no end.

Assassins. Are. Not. Avoidance. Tanks.

1. They have just as much armor as Juggernauts including all buffs from both classes.

2. They have higher Shield Chance and Absorption than Juggernauts including all buffs.

3. They have LESS Avoidance/Defense than Juggernauts including all buffs.

If anything, Juggernauts are slightly more fragile than Assassins.

DO SOME RESEARCH before trying to pass your information as fact.

SA's are not "avoidance tanks", they use a combination of talents and abilities to give them similar mitigation values to what are enjoyed by BHs and SWs. The reference to them having "slightly higher avoidance" combined with their base armor being "light" has created the very false perception that they depend on dodging.

 

I'll point out that there are two other MMOs that have mitigation-type tanks that do not wear the heaviest armors in their respective games. These tanks also use a combination of talents and class abilities to mimic the effect of heavy armor. When was the last time anyone ever confused a druid tank in WoW with an "evasion tank"?

The problem is that its actually much more like DK tanking than Druid tanking when you try it .

I've done both and I don't feel like I have any issues tanking almost anything as an assassin, the mitigation etc is all there, but I must say, and equally geared juggernaught especially on a single hard hitting melee boss, has much less chance to get spiked down it seems. Maybe there will be some high armor pieces to take advantage of the multiplier at level 50, but for now, when the hits connect I feel it more than the powertech/jugg. Pretty easy to see this too in PVP, I maul light armor for over 3k, but had a crit only do 1300 against a trooper, while I hit a tank sage for ~1800 crits.

That said, the slight bit of extra damage I take usually upsets the healers less than the loss of agro a lot of the jugg tanks are having at least up to the 30s. I still feel very cooldown dependant though for pretty much both agro and mitigation, so its a style for a twitchier player.

The problem is that its actually much more like DK tanking than Druid tanking when you try it .

 

I've done both and I don't feel like I have any issues tanking almost anything as an assassin, the mitigation etc is all there, but I must say, and equally geared juggernaught especially on a single hard hitting melee boss, has much less chance to get spiked down it seems. Maybe there will be some high armor pieces to take advantage of the multiplier at level 50, but for now, when the hits connect I feel it more than the powertech/jugg. Pretty easy to see this too in PVP, I maul light armor for over 3k, but had a crit only do 1300 against a trooper, while I hit a tank sage for ~1800 crits.

 

That said, the slight bit of extra damage I take usually upsets the healers less than the loss of agro a lot of the jugg tanks are having at least up to the 30s. I still feel very cooldown dependant though for pretty much both agro and mitigation, so its a style for a twitchier player.

I'm pretty sure your experience will vary when your "Tank Sage" (Shadow) wears actual Tank armor and uses a Tank build, instead of DPS armor/builds.

DPS Assassins/Shadows do not use Dark Charge (or whatever the jedi equivalent is), so they do not have the 150% armor buff.

DPS assassins and shadows fall into the get hit for over 3k and crushed category generally... But yeah, don't have experience in full tank gear yet. Also, did you factor in the dark charge debuff when you did your avoidance calculations? Your not going to have that going most likely if the assassin is DPSing instead of tanking in the group...

Sorry, what? We're talking about Tanking Assassins not DPS Assassins. What does the 5% melee damage debuff have to do with Avoidance?

You stated that Assassins are Avoidance Tanks and that kind of misinformation goes around more than you think so I had to clear that up.

First thing, SA is not a MT, SA is a OT.

 

 

That is it.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

It seems that we have sparked much debate!! It is very interesting to hear both sides...the fact is that Assassins can tanks!!! (tanking may vary!! LOL!)

I'm saying are you factoring in the 5% accuracy debuff you get on enemies when assassins tank

It's a 5% damage reduction, not a 5% accuracy debuff. Powertechs get the accuracy debuff with "Oil Slick," a 20% reduction. The Dark Charge buff reduces incoming damage by 5%. On average, all things being equal, and not counting buffs, Assassins have roughly 5% higher avoidance, but also higher shields, and absorption. They are more likely to dodge an attack, AS A BASE VALUE, but also more likely to take less damage from a connecting attack.

Summary: Assassin Tanks will tank your face off.

The 5% accuracy debuff comes when you Discharge your Dark Charge onto enemies. This 5% accuracy debuff on the mobs adds to your avoidance, since they're going to miss 5% more often than normal. the 5% melee damage debuff (On the Assassin) comes from having Dark Charge up.

Note, this doesn't mean I'm saying Assassin tanks are avoidance tanks. Just clarifying the confusion here.

Not quite sure what I am doing wrong. I feel so squishy.. in PvP and even while leveling. I'm level 31 and am a point away from being done witth the Darkness tree before I switch over to the Madness tree for that PvP Darkness/Madness hybrid spec. I'm not sure if it's just because I'm bad at Darkness or I am equipped poorly. As far as equipment goes I stay up to date via commendations and quest rewards, but I'm not sure if the quest reward gear is giving me enough defensive stats or not. Using Andronikos for a companion (should I switch to Talos when I get him?)

Could also use some advice on a PvP priority list.. not sure if I should be using Discharge or not. XD

I myself am a level 40 sin tank, and I must agree, we are at first quite squishy. In my recent levels though I've found myself becoming more tank like, and at 40 I can now hold aggro and take a beating. People need to remember that without a healer a tank is not a tank. You will die like everyone else if you're trying to "Tank" solo.

P.S. Apparantly Sin is the BEST end-game tank atm, shortly followed by Powertech and lastly Juggernaut.

actually dark charge reduces YOUR melee BONUS dmg by %5. Its easy to see if u check ur bonus dmg in lightning or surging charge, the switch to dark charge

It dosent give any flat reduction to incoming dmg at all

The mis-information floating around in here is dumbfounding.

1. Assassins are main tanks just like the jug or the power tech.

2. a: With full tank talents, and Dark Charge (http://www.torhead.com/ability/8BYQlTM) active, assassins have around 5% less armor then their Jug/PowerT counterparts.

b: They make up for the lack of armor with the ability called Dark Ward (http://www.torhead.com/ability/3X6mJje) giving the Assassin a 15% increased chance to reduce incoming damage with their personal shield generators. That's 15% more block chance then Jugs and powerT's

3. The Assassin can reduce his enemies chance to hit by 5% by using Discharge (http://www.torhead.com/ability/gSR6vEL) while Dark Charge is active.

4. The assassin can reduce his enemies damage by 5% by hitting them with Wither (http://www.torhead.com/ability/49pDsvl), its the final talent in the tank tree.

Any more questions? Just ask.

The problem is that its actually much more like DK tanking than Druid tanking when you try it .

 

I've done both and I don't feel like I have any issues tanking almost anything as an assassin, the mitigation etc is all there, but I must say, and equally geared juggernaught especially on a single hard hitting melee boss, has much less chance to get spiked down it seems. Maybe there will be some high armor pieces to take advantage of the multiplier at level 50, but for now, when the hits connect I feel it more than the powertech/jugg. Pretty easy to see this too in PVP, I maul light armor for over 3k, but had a crit only do 1300 against a trooper, while I hit a tank sage for ~1800 crits.

 

That said, the slight bit of extra damage I take usually upsets the healers less than the loss of agro a lot of the jugg tanks are having at least up to the 30s. I still feel very cooldown dependant though for pretty much both agro and mitigation, so its a style for a twitchier player.

It Seems like the issue there was the trooper you were fighting was in a full set of pvp gear making his expertise too high for you to handle, or you did not have enough accuracy over 100 to increase armor pen, or a combo of those 2, either way thats pvp in general and has no real application to tanking, there is a assasin tank in my guid with 4 pieces of the battle master pvp set, and in warzones he destroys anything and probably the hardest thing to kill cause of tank stats and pvp stats

in other news, im at 20 at the moment and having biochem i have been able to solo every thing from black talon to all heroic2's as an assasin tank with no panic moments or wishing i had a healer,