Alot of jedi did die to droids, did you see during the arena at Geonisis, the jedi at the end were falling back while dozens of them were dying. Plus Padme Amidala was able to survive where countless jedi has died but I'm getting off topic here.

 

The thing is your trooper won't be fighting jedi most of the time. The main enemy your fighting will be republic troopers. So your fighting average soldiers that would likely get killed every 5 seconds also.

So then this class would never be able to go into a heroic zone, flashpoint or ops. Considering that's for actual heroes, the elite, and not some regular grunt.

You're missing the point, entirely.

 

I was only using Grand Moff Kilran as one in-game example of how normal people in branches of the Imperial military can reach such heights as to boss around Sith apprentices of all people. You don't just go from "common grunt" to "Grand Moff" in one promotion, there is a rank structure that gives people increasing amounts of power and responsibility. Some of the grunt troops in the Imperial army, however few, will one day go on to become Sith guardsmen responsible for the life of the Emperor himself.

 

And, to bring up the point again, you are essentially claiming grunts did this. That grunts brought the Republic to its knees and forced it in to signing a peace treaty (which it did not have to do, and only did for odd reasons later explained in the story lines of the game).

actually sith and warships seemed to do the bulk of the work. i do recall a few imperial troopers in the deceived trailer, but they didn't really get a whole lot done.

as for the rest of the grunts on coruscant, yes they did do that, they do that to many planets. entire armies of them anyways, sometimes several.

we didn't see an imperial commando team sneaking into the temple to take out the shields, it was a bounty hunter.

Even Moff or any non sith personnel in general of the imperial military understood that the sith is the center of the empire, everyone else is underneath it, crafty Moff may exert significant power for example but overall he is fully aware that a sith with a high stature can quite easily remove him if he is not careful on who he cross while playing the deadly game of politic.

This is a significant difference to the republic where their military exist without direct interaction from the jedi, they don't report to the jedi council, they report to the senate who may or may not always act in the same interest of the jedi, the senate are after all acting for the interest of the republic not the jedi.

Contrast it with the empire where the emperor is at the top, and the dark council (all sith obviously) right below it which pretty much have complete authority to every single working of the empire including the military.

There is a significant difference between the authority level that a republic military personnel can achieve (which can act on equal level to the highest jedi depending on circumstances) to that of imperial military.

That trooper... wasn't a regular grunt. He was more than likely a commander of an elite commando squad.

 

Also, a Sith Lord would only fall to a farmer with a blaster if he was, as you said, focusing on something else.

 

Even then it's been shown in cinematics that Sith, Jedi too I'm sure, have a bit of precognition through the Force. A minor amount to let them know something is about to happen.

 

Also, not a lot of Jedi died to the droids... a few did. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the Jedi accounted for a higher number of dead droids to Jedi.

 

Now consider that ToR takes place in a time when the Force is at it's strongest, I remember at some point someone mentioning the Force growing weaker. There are also an exceptionally large number of Sith and Jedi, to the point they each have their own elite squads within the orders.

 

I'm sorry, I understand what you want, but it isn't -practical-. Because, realistically, your character would be needing a medical probe to arrive every five seconds.

Sigh. Ok let's go through this.

Those troopers in that cinematic? Yeah, normal troopers. Even if the commander guy was something special, the soldiers under his command weren't. Yet they were still taking out sith left and right until they got overwhelmed by superior numbers.

While force users do have minor precognition, it's not all knowing. How it works is they get a sense of danger, spidey-sense if you will. But that's it. They don't know what form the danger will take or where it will come from. So while this helps in a straight up fight, 1v1 sort of thing, it doesn't help in a warzone situation.

And Jedi did butcher droids in the clone wars. But it is canon that droids are vastly inferior to organics. They lack the adaptability and general skill of organics. There are plenty of instances where soldiers have taken out jedi as well, all throughout canon.

Also the timeframe of TOR makes this even more plausible. It was stated in KOTOR that with so many forcers around, the galaxy at whole had developed means to fight them quite efficiently. Even normal soldiers could sword fight with them due to training and vibroblades. This holds true for TOR, even moreso given the war. Soldiers are TRAINED to kill force users because they fight force users on a regular basis. So unlike other time periods, TOR is even more suited for generic soldiers to hold their own.

You say it's not practical, but that's a blatant lie. Plenty of stories involve fairly average people. In fact the best stories out there are the ones that don't deal with amazing superheroes. I may be a generic soldier, but I have good armor, good training, and a good weapon. And should I get injured there is bacta and kolto to heal my right up. Like it or not, there really isn't much you can say to discredit an imperial trooper storyline.

So then this class would never be able to go into a heroic zone, flashpoint or ops. Considering that's for actual heroes, the elite, and not some regular grunt.

 

They would do different flashpoints and operations. Ones that fit troopers better.

Can we delete this thread now?

I think we all got our laughs in.

actually sith and warships seemed to do the bulk of the work. i do recall a few imperial troopers in the deceived trailer, but they didn't really get a whole lot done.

 

as for the rest of the grunts on coruscant, yes they did do that, they do that to many planets. entire armies of them anyways, sometimes several.

 

we didn't see an imperial commando team sneaking into the temple to take out the shields, it was a bounty hunter.

Imperial commando teams don't have jetpacks, bounty hunters do. And your missing the point of our arguments. We are saying we want to be a regular soldier, not a spec ops unit.

Anyway, if I was on the .dev team and I had some type of say in what went on, i would of put the Bounty Hunter and the Smuggler classes into a neutral/independent faction, then gave the Siths a soldier and replaced the smuggler with some other "good guy" class.

Good thing you didn't then. I remember going to a Bioware dev conference and they mentioned they had thought about something like this but it would require overhauling the entire story and game just to fit this concept. I honestly don't mind playing a smuggler or BH, Bioware had given reasons why each of these classes are with these factions. Imperial had recruited and paid for the Mandalorians( which the BH story revolves around) and the Republic has done the same with the Smugglers.

I found each of their stories compelling and interesting so this way of doing things works. Maybe in an expansion they may do a neutral option but right now its a good foundation at least imo.

 

we didn't see an imperial commando team sneaking into the temple to take out the shields, it was a bounty hunter.

Don't forget the trailers were tailored around the existing classes (lore characters) so they need to be taken with a grain of salt. aka espionage is not exactly a bounty hunters strong suit.

I mean the fact a trooper was able to run up to a sith and get past him alive is amusing.

LOL What quests would you do?

Guard the Shuttle Launch for 10 hours.

Assist your squad in unloading transports.

Kill 5 Womp rats.

Man the outer watch tower for 4 hours.

Riveting.

I get the whole, "Just an average Joe, doin' my own thing... fighting for the Empire... having a drink in the cantina... polishing my boots" non-Epic desire. I do. I don't share it, really, but I get it. Galaxies did that. You could dance your little heart out and make it work for however many levels and never even concern yourself with recoignition.

SWtOR has said from the start that the classes were inspired from Han, Boba, Palpatine.... Oola was not mentioned. (RIP) Nor was Aunt Beru. Cliche or not, what storyline is the Imperial Trooper supposed to have that isn't epic, exactly? I totally get wanting to have one, as I'm enjoying the (elite) Republic Trooper fairly well, but I'm destined for great things. I'm just trying to understand what the desired result is here.

Do you want a mirror class with it's own unique, epic storyline? Possible in an expansion down the line, I would imagine. Grand Moff is as good a title as any (I'm sure there are ways to twist the plot to make it work).

Or do you want a mirror class with a "Joe the Soldier" storyline, where you punch the clock, get orders to.... stand rank and file? I'm not even sure how that would work. True grunts don't operate alone. You would need 11 companions just to make it not epic or "all about you". Well, 3 at once at least. A squad is where I'm going with that. But really, whenever we see the Imperial non-elite Troopers, they're standing guard or lost in a sea of their cohorts (same is true of their Republic bretheren, barring Special Forces which has the name Special right there in the title).

Or they're wounded quest givers who've been seperated from their squads.

*sigh* Maybe I should petition for a Calrissian class so I can play pazaak.

Edit: My wounded tendon makes me type slow. A few posts with similar flavor have posted since I hit reply. XD

Can we delete this thread now?

 

I think we all got our laughs in.

I'm not going to delete it. And plus its a legit thread, it makes sense, and alot of people agree with it, alot of people don't agree also. But there are plenty that do. Threads get deleted when they make no sense, don't have good arguments, and everyone is against them which this thread has none of those,

I get the whole, "Just an average Joe, doin' my own thing... fighting for the Empire... having a drink in the cantina... polishing my boots" non-Epic desire. I do. I don't share it, really, but I get it. Galaxies did that. You could dance your little heart out and make it work for however many levels and never even concern yourself with recoignition.

 

SWtOR has said from the start that the classes were inspired from Han, Boba, Palpatine.... Oola was not mentioned. (RIP) Nor was Aunt Beru. Cliche or not, what storyline is the Imperial Trooper supposed to have that isn't epic, exactly? I totally get wanting to have one, as I'm enjoying the (elite) Republic Trooper fairly well, but I'm destined for great things. I'm just trying to understand what the desired result is here.

 

Do you want a mirror class with it's own unique, epic storyline? Possible in an expansion down the line, I would imagine. Grand Moff is as good a title as any (I'm sure there are ways to twist the plot to make it work).

 

Or do you want a mirror class with a "Joe the Soldier" storyline, where you punch the clock, get orders to.... stand rank and file? I'm not even sure how that would work. True grunts don't operate alone. You would need 11 companions just to make it not epic or "all about you". Well, 3 at once at least. A squad is where I'm going with that. But really, whenever we see the Imperial non-elite Troopers, they're standing guard or lost in a sea of their cohorts (same is true of their Republic bretheren, barring Special Forces which has the name Special right there in the title).

 

Or they're wounded quest givers who've been seperated from their squads.

 

*sigh* Maybe I should petition for a Calrissian class so I can play pazaak.

Y'know, your post is about one extreme or the other. Your post makes it sound like you're either some amazingly epic warhero or the guy standing outside the gate in Kaas City. Why can't it be somewhere inbetween?

Why can't quests for an imperial trooper storyline be about all those instances we here about throughout the game? How many quests make mentions of border skirmishes? How many quests make mentions of the Imperials doing this and that? Agents work behind the scenes, troopers work at the forefront. Things like the BT, those troopers that come with you aboard the brentaal star. Why can't there be a quest where you and some marines are sent in to take over an outpost from the republic?

You can still be an average and generic soldier who occasionally does amazing stuff without being some war hero that is part of the most elite commando unit and who graduated top of his class at the academy. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

Sigh. Ok let's go through this.

 

Those troopers in that cinematic? Yeah, normal troopers. Even if the commander guy was something special, the soldiers under his command weren't. Yet they were still taking out sith left and right until they got overwhelmed by superior numbers.

Wrong. If the commander was -the commander of an elite commando squad- chances are the troopers with him were -elite commandos-.

While force users do have minor precognition, it's not all knowing. How it works is they get a sense of danger, spidey-sense if you will. But that's it. They don't know what form the danger will take or where it will come from. So while this helps in a straight up fight, 1v1 sort of thing, it doesn't help in a warzone situation.

Not true. It gives them direction but not what form.

Also the timeframe of TOR makes this even more plausible. It was stated in KOTOR that with so many forcers around, the galaxy at whole had developed means to fight them quite efficiently. Even normal soldiers could sword fight with them due to training and vibroblades. This holds true for TOR, even moreso given the war. Soldiers are TRAINED to kill force users because they fight force users on a regular basis. So unlike other time periods, TOR is even more suited for generic soldiers to hold their own.

While they can sword fight with them, I don't think that means they can go toe-to-toe. And more than likely, any soldiers who can kill Jedi/Sith would be considered part of elite squads. I also think the Force is going to give the Jedi/Sith an edge in any fight.

You say it's not practical, but that's a blatant lie. Plenty of stories involve fairly average people. In fact the best stories out there are the ones that don't deal with amazing superheroes. I may be a generic soldier, but I have good armor, good training, and a good weapon. And should I get injured there is bacta and kolto to heal my right up. Like it or not, there really isn't much you can say to discredit an imperial trooper storyline.

*Pinches bridge of nose* I do know stories that have average characters becoming heroes... but they also have heroes with them.

In The Lord of the Rings, while Frodo was the everyday-hero, he was backed up by those heroes considered larger than life. I mean, honestly, how far could he have made it without Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf?

Pit him against a Ring Wraith, he'll be useless. While the underdog story is heart warming it isn't -practical-. It just isn't. I can honestly say, if I was given a blaster and told to go and kill Sith with it... I would find a smuggler and join up with them.

Your everyday soldier isn't going to be a match for a Sith. Your elite soldiers who are called Sith Slayers or Jedi Killers? Yeah, those would be common.

I get the whole, "Just an average Joe, doin' my own thing... fighting for the Empire... having a drink in the cantina... polishing my boots" non-Epic desire. I do. I don't share it, really, but I get it. Galaxies did that. You could dance your little heart out and make it work for however many levels and never even concern yourself with recoignition.

 

SWtOR has said from the start that the classes were inspired from Han, Boba, Palpatine.... Oola was not mentioned. (RIP) Nor was Aunt Beru. Cliche or not, what storyline is the Imperial Trooper supposed to have that isn't epic, exactly? I totally get wanting to have one, as I'm enjoying the (elite) Republic Trooper fairly well, but I'm destined for great things. I'm just trying to understand what the desired result is here.

 

Do you want a mirror class with it's own unique, epic storyline? Possible in an expansion down the line, I would imagine. Grand Moff is as good a title as any (I'm sure there are ways to twist the plot to make it work).

 

Or do you want a mirror class with a "Joe the Soldier" storyline, where you punch the clock, get orders to.... stand rank and file? I'm not even sure how that would work. True grunts don't operate alone. You would need 11 companions just to make it not epic or "all about you". Well, 3 at once at least. A squad is where I'm going with that. But really, whenever we see the Imperial non-elite Troopers, they're standing guard or lost in a sea of their cohorts (same is true of their Republic bretheren, barring Special Forces which has the name Special right there in the title).

 

Or they're wounded quest givers who've been seperated from their squads.

 

*sigh* Maybe I should petition for a Calrissian class so I can play pazaak.

 

Edit: My wounded tendon makes me type slow. A few posts with similar flavor have posted since I hit reply. XD

Galaxies did give us that. But now galaxies is gone, and it's never coming back. So why not make SWTOR better.

Wrong. If the commander was -the commander of an elite commando squad- chances are the troopers with him were -elite commandos-.

 

 

 

Not true. It gives them direction but not what form.

 

 

 

While they can sword fight with them, I don't think that means they can go toe-to-toe. And more than likely, any soldiers who can kill Jedi/Sith would be considered part of elite squads. I also think the Force is going to give the Jedi/Sith an edge in any fight.

 

 

 

*Pinches bridge of nose* I do know stories that have average characters becoming heroes... but they also have heroes with them.

 

In The Lord of the Rings, while Frodo was the everyday-hero, he was backed up by those heroes considered larger than life. I mean, honestly, how far could he have made it without Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf?

 

Pit him against a Ring Wraith, he'll be useless. While the underdog story is heart warming it isn't -practical-. It just isn't. I can honestly say, if I was given a blaster and told to go and kill Sith with it... I would find a smuggler and join up with them.

 

Your everyday soldier isn't going to be a match for a Sith. Your elite soldiers who are called Sith Slayers or Jedi Killers? Yeah, those would be common.

You obviously haven't seen Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, or many of those other war movies.

You obviously haven't seen Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, or many of those other war movies.

There were Jedi in Black Hawk Down?

You obviously haven't seen Black Hawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, or many of those other war movies.

i must have missed the scene where the jedi show up.....

There certaintly is stuff in the middle, but how can that be accomplished alone? I'm genuinely asking, I'm not trying to be sassy. Would each quest have you fight larger groups, but with multiple companions? In a story driven game, it's hard to imagine a consistant stream of excuses from above as to why an average soldier would repeatedly be send off on his own.

You wouldn't be sent off on mission on your own. And you don't have to have tons of companions either. Just lots of other soldiers with you. You can have 1 or 2 companions who are your best friends in the army. But the other guys are just random soldiers assisting you in battle. And the trooper storyline would have battles not missions.

actually sith and warships seemed to do the bulk of the work. i do recall a few imperial troopers in the deceived trailer, but they didn't really get a whole lot done.

 

as for the rest of the grunts on coruscant, yes they did do that, they do that to many planets. entire armies of them anyways, sometimes several.

 

we didn't see an imperial commando team sneaking into the temple to take out the shields, it was a bounty hunter.

Someone has already pointed out how the in-game movies (of which Deceived is one) only serve to showcase the in-game classes. If we're talking common sense though, a navy alone does not win a war of occupation.

The Empire sacked Coruscant, evicted the Jedi, and sued the Republic for peace. It didn't do that only with mere "grunts" and to argue otherwise would be nonsense. Not only because it makes no sense, but because it would imply a lot about how special Republic troopers really aren't if they got caned by such a weaksauce force.

Wrong. If the commander was -the commander of an elite commando squad- chances are the troopers with him were -elite commandos-.

I don't even know if he WAS a commander of an elite commando unit. To be honest I doubt he was. I said even if HE was special, not that he was commanding something special.

Not true. It gives them direction but not what form.

Actually, this is wrong. It doesn't give them details in any way, shape or form. It just tells them something bad is about to happen. It's their decades of training that allows them to interpret that into something useable.

While they can sword fight with them, I don't think that means they can go toe-to-toe. And more than likely, any soldiers who can kill Jedi/Sith would be considered part of elite squads. I also think the Force is going to give the Jedi/Sith an edge in any fight.

Jedi/Sith are not THAT magnificent. Unlike the game, they can't force-spam when in combat. It requires a lot of focus and concentration and makes them very vulnerable to attack. If it's 1v1 then they can force-spam more freely, but in a warzone situation you wont see a force user using the force in any blatant way, they certainly wont be levitating people up and zapping them or anything. So without their more blatant force powers, then year, soldiers can often go toe-to-toe with them.

*Pinches bridge of nose* I do know stories that have average characters becoming heroes... but they also have heroes with them.

 

In The Lord of the Rings, while Frodo was the everyday-hero, he was backed up by those heroes considered larger than life. I mean, honestly, how far could he have made it without Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf?

 

Pit him against a Ring Wraith, he'll be useless. While the underdog story is heart warming it isn't -practical-. It just isn't. I can honestly say, if I was given a blaster and told to go and kill Sith with it... I would find a smuggler and join up with them.

 

Your everyday soldier isn't going to be a match for a Sith. Your elite soldiers who are called Sith Slayers or Jedi Killers? Yeah, those would be common.

Your example is a bad one because Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, they weren't really that special. They were all royalty sure, but combat-wise they were not that amazing. They didn't have any super amazing talents or anything. All they had were years of training. Gandalf is about the only one who was anything special.

Whether you want to admit it, an everyday soldier is very much a match for a jedi or sith. You are WOEFULLY overestimating how powerful force users are.

There were Jedi in Black Hawk Down?

Oh for God's sake I was making a example of movies with soldiers who were not influencing the government.

I always thought about this from the beginning, and I think it would fit right in to the game. You see cool looking imperial soldiers hanging around the city but can't play them :S

I know right.