I thought that was a pretty fair assessment, OP.

 

To be perfectly honest, other than Asheron's Call (my first), this is by far the funnest mmo I've played. I've had a blast in this game, particularly because I play mostly solo. The problem, however, is the same that it's always been. This is, by far, the worst game I've ever played in terms of developer management. It is an abject failure in that regard. It's a damned joke, really.

 

I'll be around until shortly after housing, just because I'm curious. Really, I'm here because I don't particularly like any of the recent mmos that released. I'm praying to the gamer gods that Archeage will save me. Time will tell.

 

Also, if you've been through every server merge, you probably have the same feeling I do right now. The more it starts coming up, the more serious you have to take it. I don't mean that in the sense that I think it's going to happen. I mean more along the lines of the population dying again, across servers. I've seen lots of people brush worries aside recently, but if you think server populations are fine, you're lying to yourself.

i grouped up with a player on taris republic side sometime in 2012 and did some stuff a couple of times. lost track of him for a while and he came back to swtor sometime last year and since then i have not seen him on at all im hoping ill see him pop online again soon he's in my friends list republic side only don't think he has any imps. but it's also possible he has taken swtor of his pc. and there's two players on the empire side i added to my friends list and it has been so long since i have seen then online that they must not be playing anymore. so thats a little thing i see that makes me wonder how many other players that i have done heroics etc with that are no longer playing.

I would have to agree with the op. though I'd say that TOR is a great massive single player game but for MMO the individual class stories being great but cant be continued after they are completed. I love Star Wars and TOR did have so much potential, not that its a totally bad game.......I just wish there was more freedom in the classes (i.e weapons, armor, etc.). Not to mention that the graphics they use doesn't seem to capture clothing and armor very well (I'm not very tech savvy so don't know a whole lot about this, so this is just my opinion....again). All the clothing and most of the armor seems like....well I'm wearing tights from pants to shirts. Some of the armor looks cool but still doesn't look like I'm wearing actual armor with plating (I hope this makes since)...perhaps that is why for some reason designers create those god awful over compensating shoulder guards (lol I'd really, really like to know why it is they make those shoulder guards like that. lol I mean really want to know drives me crazy not knowing why they think it looks cool. I don't know maybe I'm in the minority), plus there aren't a lot of robes per say (in my minds eye I'm picturing jedi robes like in the movies).

Like I stated up above the class stories a great to experience once they are done the individual stories are done. Its seems and this is just my opinion and observation of posts that the stories were so good that people want to continue each of those stories. Yet in a gaming since probably not going to happen at least for the individual story (though I could be wrong). And lets not forget the races, Star Wars universe is full of different races yet we can only play a few of them (I'm not including the crappy cyborg thing cause that isn't a race!). Yes, yes I know the whole speaking basic stupid thing, but there are easy ways around that and many, many other races out there that do speak basic.

As to the f2p thing that doesn't bother me cause then EVERYONE that can, can play and experience the Star Wars game. Though when it comes to adding content and well anything to the game, I don't really care how it effects them. Now that may seem mean and all but to me and this is just my opinion that if you don't pay or help support the game in any way, well you just are along for the ride (not that f2p don't have good ideas or that they are bad).

I guess in my experience a good MMORPG starts when you hit max level and in TOR it isn't long before you are sitting around say what now. I hope that the new expansion with the houses and guild ships and planetary control is really good, but if they do not roll out a new dungeon with 2-3 month they may be some issues.

I really don't blame the dev's i blame the upper management. IMO they do not support the Dev's with the resources they need. It seems the staff is so small and split into two areas 1) Cartel Market 2) everything else which mean content and issues like X-server is extremely slow or just pushed aside.

I will say the new team has done a much better job but their communication with certain play styles/ areas sucks as bad as ever.

Game looks pretty good considering it's dead. You guys really need to give up on that particular falsehood, it damages your credibility.

Indeed, everytime I visit the starting areas they are loaded with players, dunno where the dying part of the game is at, maybe at level 55?

The TOR ship fell completely short when it announced f2p. The cash shop was the nail in the coffin.

F2P only killed this game because every single Cartel Coin purchase in this game is overpriced. A black dye that is one use is not worth $20.00 Even the unlocks are way too much. They killed my enjoyment of collecting things when they brought an expensive price to it.

Yep yep.

 

And for the "OMG it's bleeding out in the player base!" ummm.. no.. it's not....though the PvP servers are on a slow persistent decline. The PvP servers are not as healthy...so that lends to the PvE servers seeing modest growth, offsetting the continued PvP decline, and honestly that is what I would expect to see in an MMO that is essentially a PvE game with some PvP.

I think this is because PVP players are typical divas, who complain about every aspect of the game that does not benefit their character. Pvp players will say the next mmo will be the best and will leave the moment it comes out. A few months from now, they will say the exact thing about their new mmo.

This is coming from a 95% pvp player. I only pvp, i pvp on all the mmo's i have played. therefore i know what many pvp players complain about. Me.. i dont care. I understand the business side of things. They must make money or there is no reason to continue a game.

Don't forget its p2w system. EAware said we'd never see p2w and they lied to us. Now they're suffering the consequences while MMOs like Wildstar take the gaming community by storm.

Give me undeniable proof of Pay to win please.

In what way can I turn cold hard Cash, (Dollars, Euro's, Peso's, Pounds, Denair, Ruples, Franks, Shillings, Etc) into top level, best of the best gear and be guaranteed to beat everything the game can through at me in one quick and easy step. I'm talking log in, select items, in-put credit card info and BAM! I have all I need to win...

Show me the proof of this.

NWO is a, near pure, pay to win system. You pay real world currency for astral diamonds, you log in and use astral diamonds to buy the best gear in the game; Then you can solo anything that isn't Player created or pvp. That is P2W.

F2P only killed this game because every single Cartel Coin purchase in this game is overpriced. A black dye that is one use is not worth $20.00 Even the unlocks are way too much. They killed my enjoyment of collecting things when they brought an expensive price to it.

Yes the cartel market is WAY over priced... $20 for a dye module is to much, now if a purchase got the dye and an unlock so that you could get an infinite amount out of your collections then maybe it is worth 1/2 the current price.

75% of what is charged in cartel coins is overpriced once you assign a real world dollar amount to it.

F2P didn't kill the game though, the game is far from dead. I think F2P actually helps, not just this game, but all MMO's. Wildstar and ESO got some heavy criticism for not launching with some type of F2P system built in. F2P is successful unless you are NWO and implement a true P2W soon after launch too

Now to the subject of the thread.

Yes SWTOR has it's failings and there is a lot that they can improve and do better, but you can say that for EVERY game out there. It all comes down to personal preference I prefer SWTOR, I wish there was more content being produced and I think that maybe they should have released some more new awesomeness this summer instead of waiting till August, but it is what it is.

Each MMO wants to be something that MANY gamers will like, but you can't please everyone, you can't even try. If you do try to please everyone then you will fail. For a long time the # of MMO's was very small so when WOW came out they were the "IT game." Now, 10 years later we have a lot of MMO's to chose from and each one offers something different, however SWTOR remains one of the most popular.

ESO, in general has had a pretty terrible spin up and many retailers (Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart etc) have already dropped the price to about $30 and the game hasn't been out all that long. I played ESO for a little while thanks to a friend who decided he didn't like the game. Then people started finding game/economy breaking exploits. It was easy to get caught up in these exploits with out even realizing it. I needed some money so I asked an ESO guild mate what the best way to get alot quick was and he said, "just take some of the iron ore out of the guild bank and sell it. I have Ton's I'll put more in." So I did, well it was iron ore that had been duped using an exploit. I got caught and now can't play ESO anymore. I was stupid and trusted that the stuff was legit, when I should have realized that iron ore is hard to get. Oh well, no loss. If it that easy to exploit a flaw in the game then I don't want to play it.

Wildstar, while it has a lot to offer hasn't had a very big draw yet (despite what some may say) and seems to be targeted at the Vanilla WoW fans while still trying to be anti-WoW. I have been playing Wildstar and although I find the "Space Western/Cowboys, Aliens and Magic Idea to be kinda cool I also find a lot of the game to be pretty boring. The graphics are cool, very cartoonish and more of a Nintendo look and feel, but still really nice. Don't get me wrong I actually like that because I want my games to look like games, not real life. Wildstar is definitely geared for the hardcore player though, but with all of the telegraphed abilities and Puzzle like AoE strikes, it has a very high learning curve for a game that has "bunnies and kitties" (at least that is how my 9 year old daughter see's them) as humanoid playable races. Overall it is a good game, but doesn't have enough depth of story, or changing story lines to have a high degree of replay-ability for me. I have worked on lvling 2 different toons in Wildstar and I just can't get into the game. My list of positives far exceeds my list of negatives, but a couple of the negatives are enough for me to wait for the day that it, inevitably, goes F2P. Seeing as how they have a built in method for purchasing subscription time using in game gold I think Wildstar realizes that they will eventually be F2P too.

All in all everyone will find the game that fills the niche that they fit into as a gamer and SWTOR isn't for everyone, but I like it and many, many other people do too. Maybe OP you don't and, that's ok. Find a game that has all those things you want and play the crap out of it!

We are all kind of bored of the same old same old that we have had since October when the Oricon and the Dread Ops dropped, but great things are on the horizon. I don't thinks the Dev's of this game are def and dumb, so I hope they are working on some really awesome stuff for us in the VERY near future.

The TOR ship fell completely short when it announced f2p. The cash shop was the nail in the coffin.

Pretty sure the Cash Shop is the only thing keeping this game's head above water. Cause it sure as hell isn't the subscriber dollars funding this game.

I read Bioware profits went up 400% when cartel were introduced. I do not see them using cartel if they made more money on subs. Cartel is making its money, therefore they will continue to use it. Its smart business.

We cannot expect a business to run f2p with all updates and give so much to the consumer just for funsiez. its still a business. Especially when the consumer is an mmo player, and the mmo community, which is fickle.

I think in most cases....and this is a very judgmental view, so I could most certainly be wrong.....when it comes to the forums and those folks that rail against F2P in rather blistering fashion, or perhaps try and convince others it is P2W (believing that yourself is fine, there are some things in the CM that can be seen that way), I feel they have an agenda and just wish to promote it.

The agenda that they do not care for F2P at all, and perhaps hate what it is doing to traditional MMO play.

This is not an irrational view IMO....F2P has changed the industry and the games we play in a substantial way. Many of the old traditions with respect to MMO gaming are falling behind F2P priorities and focus.

I personally think this is great, for the best and all that...but I understand why some folks would not.

I do find it disingenuous, however, to promote an agenda by presenting a view that is not your true feelings on a matter. If you are not happy with what F2P is doing to traditional MMO play you should present that openly IMO.

One should not hide behind silly arguments to try and change the minds of fellow community members using inaccurate and unfair propaganda.

Just my slant.