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1.4 Nerfing classes for PVP reasons, impacts PVE.../sigh


OrionSol

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It is mind blowing why bioware redoing basic skill that is learnt in early game and is vital... unbelievable. So PvP is more important than pve, do i have to remind that this skill is at level 3 trainable?

 

I think it is time for Bioware to change skills for pvp and pve. There are already some skills that cant be used at all in pvp.

 

As a Sage who PVPs, I think the change to Force Wave is idiotic. It's supposed to be a way to instantly get away from all attacking players, now I have to face them first? If there's more than one and they're not standiing in the same spot, it's useless.

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The changes sound interesting. I'd like to see how they play out before making a decision either way. As for the force wave thing, turn with mouse. There are already a number of abilities in game that require the player to pay attention to their position and facing anyway. This is no different, imo. ;)
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As a Sage who PVPs, I think the change to Force Wave is idiotic. It's supposed to be a way to instantly get away from all attacking players, now I have to face them first? If there's more than one and they're not standiing in the same spot, it's useless.

 

PvP mechanics change and evolve in MMOs. Adapt, perservere, overcome.

 

Besides, having an ability that gives you universal ability "to get away from all attacking players" = get out of jail free card. There should be no get out of jail free cards in PvP.

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There is absolutely no good reason for changing ForceWave. It is stupid, and is going to piss off a good deal of people.

 

Not everyone pays attention to these forums, and will find out the first time when it is changed in game.

 

Mark my words, this will not go over well with the players of Consular/Inquisitor Classes.

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They said the same thing about the NGE... "deal with it"

 

Look what that got them... SOE is now the laughing stock of game design world.

 

These changes or any patch for that matter is not even in the same ball park as the NGE...**** is not even the same sport.

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As a Sage who PVPs, I think the change to Force Wave is idiotic. It's supposed to be a way to instantly get away from all attacking players, now I have to face them first? If there's more than one and they're not standiing in the same spot, it's useless.

 

Dude, nothing wrong against u, i play only PVP 8 months evryday 6-8 hours and this is huge buff for sorcerer ...

 

how can help u overload against marauder or some melee class now? it'll be much better after 1.4 soz 15m ...

i have sometimes problems to solo some skilled marauders or juggernauts, i kite them and this is for me great buff

 

and i dont speak bout 20 secs force speed /from 30 before/ .

 

and instant heal?? new ability? omg i love it, cannot wait on it ...

 

an done thing, yeah this required more skill but its much usefull for skilled players ... so many ppl cries bout its bout gear ...no skill ... and sure u cannot click abilities, be keyturner to use this to 100% potential ...

 

but we want the game be based more on skill, so i like this...

 

gl

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Isn't it interesting how PvP follows natural selection and players apply thought to their environment?

 

PvP is a team sport and balanced that way, not solo. It's also a tactics activity and it's rock/paper/scissors. Get yourself a stealther buddy to watch your back and stunlock the stunlocker. ;)

 

Get yourself a stealth buddy to watch your back.....so effectively remove a player from the 8 on 8 and have him just follow you around in stealth only to come out of stealth when you (said gunslinger/sniper) gets stun locked by another one? Bravo on your sense of logic behind this decision. I must say that is quite genius to ask someone to just follow you around and do only one thing and stay stealthed otherwise all the time so he is ready at a moments notice.

 

If you dont sense my sarcasm or see the problem with what you said then you obviously do not pvp and would not see the huge impact as this "strategy" would effectively remove a player from the match considering he is there to do only one thing. Gunslingers/Snipers just have to deal with it, and i believe they are more than compensated by the insane amounts of dmg they can do. Unless they would prefer that no one can stop them and they can just free cast from anywhere and only die from people they can see coming to kill them from a mile away and they have a chance to blow them up before they can attack said GS/SR.

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Ruining the AoE pushback is going to KILL healers in PVE.

 

Stupid change, not needed, not asked for... and not going to work well.

 

You think that this will benefit healers in PvP?

 

 

Look, since this is not on the test server no one knows how this will change style of play for PvE and PvP players. As an assassin I am not sure how to make heads or tails because I have not tested it.

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There is absolutely no good reason for changing ForceWave. It is stupid, and is going to piss off a good deal of people.

 

Not everyone pays attention to these forums, and will find out the first time when it is changed in game.

 

Mark my words, this will not go over well with the players of Consular/Inquisitor Classes.

 

I'm with you bro, with these changes, sorcs/sages will be downright unplayable!

 

I mean, yeah, we get a no-force, instant cast self heal every 30 seconds, the cooldown on force speed has been reduced by 33% and now grants immunity to snares and roots, they also gave us interrupt immunity, and we gain a new CC that will not break on damage.

 

But at what cost?!?!

 

Now, when we are surrounded by enemies, we have to take four steps back before hitting our knockback! I mean, yeah, sure, they also greatly increased the range of the knockback so that the enemies will fly further away.... and they did reduce the cooldown on force sprint, so its easier to ensure our class specific speed-away ability is up.... but still, I thought this was supposed to be a skill to allow us to get away from attackers! These changes absolutely break our ability to escape and survive. Whatever gain there may be in other aspects of this change, I now need to take four steps before using my knockback, and thus, this is an overall nerf.

 

Thanks a lot, Bioware!

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You think that this will benefit healers in PvP?

 

 

Look, since this is not on the test server no one knows how this will change style of play for PvE and PvP players. As an assassin I am not sure how to make heads or tails because I have not tested it.

 

I think they are changing it for the PURPOSE of Nerfing these classes in PVP.... without thinking that it will hurt pve

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Agrees. New balance change suck.. and I play both a Merc and commando in PvP and PvE.

 

If they aren't going to do something for a class that changes it's balance scope evenly for both PvP and PvE, then don't change anything at all.

 

But honestly, it isn't even the nerfing that I don't like. It's the addition of the additional abilities and redesigned abilities that aren't needed. Commandos/Mercs don't need an interrupt. Have people forgotten that they have a dedicated ability used to locate stealthed opponents?

 

I mean, they complain that not enough people group up for content.. and then they turn around and make every class self sustaining. I thought the reason why commandos/mercs didn't have an interrupt was so that they could be balanced in a way to outweigh that problem. Not only that, but give incentive for them to group with a class that does have an interrupt.

Edited by Soul_of_Flames
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I think they are changing it for the PURPOSE of Nerfing these classes in PVP.... without thinking that it will hurt pve

 

That is just it you think they are making but until a dev posts otherwise lets just go with the change was symbiotic.

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God some of the posts in this thread are idiotic. The Sage/Sorc healing nerf was as much about PVE as it was PVP oh and this is a buff not a nerf for those classes....

 

As are the Merc/Commando ones. The interrupt is almost exclusively a PvE addition. It will certainly help in PvP, but it's far more important to PvE.

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As are the Merc/Commando ones. The interrupt is almost exclusively a PvE addition. It will certainly help in PvP, but it's far more important to PvE.

 

It was an oversight to not have an interrupt in the first place, as was pointed out in beta repeatedly by myself and the other merc testers. It was holding the class back in both pve and pvp.

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Also those changes were, on paper, I n unquestioned nerf. They were a survivable one (having a sorc main) but they were still a nerf. On paper I don't see these that way as they look like sidegrade tweaks or buffs .

 

^^^ THIS

 

I read this and got excited.

 

A sage gets a free instant heal on himself. Reduced cooldown on force sp eed. Oh and let's not forget the immune to interrupts.

 

Commandos get an interrupt.

 

Wow thats nice.

 

Oh but now I have to be facing the targets I want top knock back. WE GOT NERFED.

 

give me a break. I like these changes for both PvP and pve.

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Ruining the AoE pushback is going to KILL healers in PVE.

 

Stupid change, not needed, not asked for... and not going to work well.

 

Here's a thought. Get your tank to... I dunno... ... TANK!!!!!

 

I rarely use my knock back in pve because the tanks I run with know how to tank.

 

If you rely on your KB in pve you are doing something wrong.

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Here's a thought. Get your tank to... I dunno... ... TANK!!!!!

 

I rarely use my knock back in pve because the tanks I run with know how to tank.

 

If you rely on your KB in pve you are doing something wrong.

 

I take it you have never actually tanked.. Besides, relying on someone else is never a good idea.. Like healers, tanks have enough to worry about.. Not to mention we can only do so much..

 

So here is a thought.. Roll a tank before you tell tanks what to do..

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  • Dev Post

I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

 

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

 

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.

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I take it you have never actually tanked.. Besides, relying on someone else is never a good idea.. Like healers, tanks have enough to worry about.. Not to mention we can only do so much..

 

So here is a thought.. Roll a tank before you tell tanks what to do..

My tank isn't yet level 50 so I can't speak with certainty.

 

But I've done almost all endgame content with a sage healer and don't find myself needing force wave very much. When I do HM Ops and HM FPs with my guildies I seldom pull aggro. If I do I usually run past the tank and I'm fine.

 

On the other hand, when I pug HM FPs I tend to pull aggro frequently.

 

This may be a failure in group coordination, a failure in the dps of handling the adds or a failure in the tank to handle aggro. Since it hardly ever happens when I'm running with one of my guild tanks, I tend to lean in the direction of tank skill.

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I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

 

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

 

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.

 

Looking at my main character a SI - I lose a 30 meter 4 second stun, most often used to break a special abilty and in its place I get a heal that can only heal me. As a group healer if I am healing myself something is going wrong. That said forcing me to get within 10 meters of the battle will probably mean I wil be taking a lot more of a beating so will need this new heal a lot just hope it's not worthless amounts. As for force speed other that BT on hard mode where I use it for a single boss I dont really see it being much use. The change to Overload, well I dont tend to use it a lot because I try to avoid being beaten on, maybe ths will make it better dont know. All the changes here would only have been put in for PvP. Most boses are immune to stuns anyway on PvE.

Edited by Izorii
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I talked to Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh and Senior PvP Designer Rob Hinkle about the concerns that developers allow changes made that primarily affect either PvP or PvE to negatively affect the other part of the game.

 

While it's true that some changes may be motivated by design requirements in one gameplay mode, we never make a change without confidence that it's fun and appropriate in all gameplay modes. We think it's natural for players to think of the game as two different sub-games and to dislike changes made for a sub-game they don't participate in, but that mindset couldn't be further from the case for us. We only ever look at the game as a complete package, and it's always our goal to deliver one cohesive and coherent gameplay experience. If, during our playtesting, we find that one experience suffers at the cost of another, we revisit our design goals and our options and reassess our approach.

 

Overload and Force Wave, for example, now reach 15 meters in front of you. This is almost twice the previous range. The extra reach is quite a bit of fun and quite useful all around. Similarly, although stuns that now have a 10-meter range are irrefutably worse, we've taken measures to correct for this loss by adding a few new tools and skills to the affected classes. From our internal playtesting and feedback, we're confident that the new experience is more fun. Ultimately, we want you guys to be able to tell us what is and isn't fun, so we're looking forward to players actually testing these changes in-game on the PTS and giving us good, constructive feedback that is based on playing with the changes.

THANK YOU Allison!!!

 

CC's/stuns/roots, the amount of them in this game, is not fun!

Resolve working as it does right now, is not fun.

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Looking at my main character a SI - I lose a 30 meter 4 second stun, most often used to break a special abilty and in its place I get a heal that can only heal me. As a group healer if I am healing myself something is going wrong. That said forcing me to get within 10 meters of the battle will probably mean I wil be taking a lot more of a beating so will need this new heal a lot just hope it's not worthless amounts. As for force speed other that BT on hard mode where I use it for a single boss I dont really see it being much use. The change to Overload, well I dont tend to use it a lot because I try to avoid being beaten on, maybe ths will make it better dont know. All the changes here would only have been put in for PvP. Most boses are immune to stuns anyway on PvE.

 

So healing yourself because you have to use consumption/noble sacrifice or just heal up normal AoE damage is wrong, right? I'll keep that in mind next time I'm healing a FP and keel over dead because healing myself is doing it wrong :rolleyes:

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