As the title states, I'd like to propose the idea of enabling augments and armor amps to be reflected in the gear score. (perhaps allowing us to see gear in the 306-320's range for endgame)

I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, but it makes sense since gear is essentially being upgraded. A brand new 306 player vs. one with maxed out augments and armor amps might appear equal at first glance. However, a 306 player with maxed out endgame augments and gold armor amps has a significant advantage over one with default 306 amps and no augments.

I understand there may be concern about the potential of judging or excluding players by their gear score. However I've not experience that in game thus far.

Thanks for your consideration.

Not sure if you're asking for augs/amps to be merely reflected in the iRating and/or wanting to push the max stats past 306 using them. Stat inflation with no harder content just makes easy stuff easier, so not sure what the goal would be.

I think you're trying to say "my 306 is better than your 306, just look at my augs!" in which case you're just asking to be able to check out another player as being fully auged/amped at 306 rather than something of a "hollow" 306 that just meets the iRating. Not sure what would be a good indicator of that.

As the title states, I'd like to propose the idea of enabling augments and armor amps to be reflected in the gear score. (perhaps allowing us to see gear in the 306-320's range for endgame)

 

I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this, but it makes sense since gear is essentially being upgraded. A brand new 306 player vs. one with maxed out augments and armor amps might appear equal at first glance. However, a 306 player with maxed out endgame augments and gold armor amps has a significant advantage over one with default 306 amps and no augments.

 

I understand there may be concern about the potential of judging or excluding players by their gear score. However I've not experience that in game thus far.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

What other purpose does this serve? If your needing to identify whether someone is a brand new vs maxed...what other purpose other than to exclude...curiosity? PVP...which would be used to avoid or attack...I'm not seeing the reason....

What other purpose does this serve? If your needing to identify whether someone is a brand new vs maxed...what other purpose other than to exclude...curiosity? PVP...which would be used to avoid or attack...I'm not seeing the reason....

Me neither. I'm sort of sitting on the fence pondering why have it and where that would get anyone.

Me neither. I'm sort of sitting on the fence pondering why have it and where that would get anyone.

It's just about making differentiation and valuation more visible, straightforward, clear, and reflective of actual gear performance. 306 isn't actually reflective of a hard cap since augs and amps extend actual performance considerably. Some guilds and groups may choose to use the updated gear score to determine suitability for certain content when in need of a quick pug. Some people may just want to have their investment be made more visible. For me, it's just the principle of valuation.

And lastly, when you get gear drops, seeing some with scores of 307 or 308 (maybe due to a gold armor amp) will make it easier to take notice and worth examining.

The later of the legacy Operations - even in SM - have DPS checks that are not easy with random 306 gear. VM and MM Ops absolutely require at least 228 augments, with Dxun requiring 276+ augments. Amplifiers can provide up to 9+% percent additional damage or 20+% of armor reduction or .... So, iRating of 306 is not enough. Many guild Ops groups and ad hoc Discord Ops groups require players with higher gear requirements than mere 306.

In spite of what the OP says, this gear requirement is needed for doing these Ops. Currently players are already excluded if their gear does not meet these levels; it is done by specifying the requirement before recruiting and then manually examining each person's gear and stats once they join the Ops group. Making that information available automatically through the game interface will be a huge QoL improvement for Operations Leaders and teams.

This is not elitism; it is just the necessity of having to be geared to run the harder content. It is a simple fact that a VM Styrak (boss from a legacy operation) has a DPS check that is brutal and impossible for people in random, unaugmented 306 gear, as an example.

I support this idea.

It all varies, a NIM Raiders in blue augments and amplifiers on his 3rd alt is better than some kid who spent Christmas and birthday money on cartel market and then selling it for credits to max out his first toon. Check the achievements and if the gear doesn't fit, ask questions.

What happens if the person is playing a Sage with all gold armor piercing amplifiers with 286 power augments? Being a raid leader requires more than just looking at gear to determine a quality addition to the group

It's just about making differentiation and valuation more visible, straightforward, clear, and reflective of actual gear performance.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily worry about performance via gear. I have several 306/286 toons, with amps, and I can think of at least 4 hard-mode ops people in my guild who could kick my royal patootie wearing 230 / 0 on rotation alone.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily worry about performance via gear. I have several 306/286 toons, with amps, and I can think of at least 4 hard-mode ops people in my guild who could kick my royal patootie wearing 230 / 0 on rotation alone.

Notice I deliberately refer to gear performance. (a term used in sports and military) Of course actual player experience, skill, execution, etc accounts for a significant % of overall performance.

It all varies, a NIM Raiders in blue augments and amplifiers on his 3rd alt is better than some kid who spent Christmas and birthday money on cartel market and then selling it for credits to max out his first toon. Check the achievements and if the gear doesn't fit, ask questions.

 

What happens if the person is playing a Sage with all gold armor piercing amplifiers with 286 power augments? Being a raid leader requires more than just looking at gear to determine a quality addition to the group

What you say is not wrong and is extremely valid. Of course there is more to a player's overall output than gear but when picking up a pug, we can only go by what is observable and measurable in the UI. (skill is not) So whether you're an HR department or a raid leader, you gotta go by role and what's on paper (ie, what's listed on a resume or--in our case--gear score) to determine who gets a shot.

The later of the legacy Operations - even in SM - have DPS checks that are not easy with random 306 gear. VM and MM Ops absolutely require at least 228 augments, with Dxun requiring 276+ augments. Amplifiers can provide up to 9+% percent additional damage or 20+% of armor reduction or .... So, iRating of 306 is not enough. Many guild Ops groups and ad hoc Discord Ops groups require players with higher gear requirements than mere 306.

 

In spite of what the OP says, this gear requirement is needed for doing these Ops. Currently players are already excluded if their gear does not meet these levels; it is done by specifying the requirement before recruiting and then manually examining each person's gear and stats once they join the Ops group. Making that information available automatically through the game interface will be a huge QoL improvement for Operations Leaders and teams.

 

This is not elitism; it is just the necessity of having to be geared to run the harder content. It is a simple fact that a VM Styrak (boss from a legacy operation) has a DPS check that is brutal and impossible for people in random, unaugmented 306 gear, as an example.

 

I support this idea.

Thank you for explaining it so well and for contributing these real examples. Indeed the augs and amps provide such a huge swing that it's almost like comparing lvl 306 vs 268 gear. With equally skilled players, the difference is substantial.

I'd also like to bring up the impact to expansion content. The next release of gear will likely start at 307 and up. For a maxed out 306 player with augs and amps, it may not be worth upgrading gear until getting lvl325 gear. However, there's no quick way to make that determination using just gear rating.

Thank you for explaining it so well and for contributing these real examples. Indeed the augs and amps provide such a huge swing that it's almost like comparing lvl 306 vs 268 gear. With equally skilled players, the difference is substantial.

So it would be in fact used for the purpose of quickly determining if gear met a certain level, and excluding people if they didn't. Not a fan. Requiring players to play specific builds, tacts, rotations etc...would suck the life right out of play for me. Those that like that kind of strict play have at it, but no thanks.

However if you were going to do this : Since iRating is an average of gear level it would still not go above 306, it would just make the averages lower. So you would need a second rating say...a286 specifically for your example. So i306/a286 or something.

So it would be in fact used for the purpose of quickly determining if gear met a certain level, and excluding people if they didn't. Not a fan. Requiring players to play specific builds, tacts, rotations etc...would suck the life right out of play for me. Those that like that kind of strict play have at it, but no thanks.

 

However if you were going to do this : Since iRating is an average of gear level it would still not go above 306, it would just make the averages lower. So you would need a second rating say...a286 specifically for your example. So i306/a286 or something.

Hey thanks for the reply. I'm not sure if I see things the same way. Again I'm not arguing right/wrong here but let's see how this plays out...

With content, most lvl75 players still have comfortable access to enjoy 90-95% of the game's content without worrying. I think in terms of accessibility, this is very reasonable and it won't suddenly exclude more people. We see evidence of this in many SM Ops where it's no big deal to have even lvl70 players present. So in most existing ops, it won't change much either from the status quo.

Personally i've yet to see anyone recruit for nightmare mode ops in fleet chat. But if you're able to quickly gauge gear scores for suitability, even more people might actually get a chance to experience challenges that they would not have otherwise been able to try out.

my 2 cents.

But if you're able to quickly gauge gear scores for suitability, even more people might actually get a chance to experience challenges that they would not have otherwise been able to try out.

my 2 cents.

The next step in such an evolution would be people screaming on the forums to have ops filters that ensure the only people in the queue with them are 306/286. Not exactly a way to give more people a chance.

The screening for Set Bonus and augments is already happening where applicable and needed.

No disagrees with that but it would also be used to exclude players in easier content. We already have people demanding that you need to be 306 gear for MM Flashpoints for which you can start queueing at lvl 70, sure you need better gear the harder they get but that imho is something that needs to be coded into group finder.

This suggestion just helps as a QoL feature.

I'm not sure that this feature would help as much as you think with a PUG. For example my Maras/Sentinels would show 306/276 whether they wear their DPS gear or the Tank set of my Juggs, so one would still need to check every player for reasonable gear before tackling harder content.