Very Nice post, i see you put alot of effort into writing and 98% i agree TBH.

If you're not forced, then you ought to be. The distinction made between PVE and PVP servers is artificial, and one of the many outmoded tropes of MMOs that need to be well and truly done away with in order for the genre to survive.

You've got to be kidding. We should be forced to PvP??? You should never force someone into a scenario like that. The player should always have the choice. This also applies to the suggestion of forcing a bounty system on people who may not want to participate. I would never support a bounty system that forced it on me. If you wanted something that was disabled by default and required players to opt-in, then fine.

 

I understand that players prefer different play styles than mine, but the current setup allows you do play however you want without forcing it on you. If you want to PvP, then go for it, but don't force me to do it.

 

For what it's worth, I recall a few polls back in the beta talking about people's play style. Only 30-40% of them identified themselves as PvP players. Even if you went the route of forcing a play style on everyone, I don't think you'd do it for the minority like that.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Kalabakk

You've got to be kidding. We should be forced to PvP??? You should never force someone into a scenario like that. The player should always have the choice. This also applies to the suggestion of forcing a bounty system on people who may not want to participate. I would never support a bounty system that forced it on me. If you wanted something that was disabled by default and required players to opt-in, then fine.

 

I understand that players prefer different play styles than mine, but the current setup allows you do play however you want without forcing it on you. If you want to PvP, then go for it, but don't force me to do it.

 

For what it's worth, I recall a few polls back in the beta talking about people's play style. Only 30-40% of them identified themselves as PvP players. Even if you went the route of forcing a play style on everyone, I don't think you'd do it for the minority like that.

First of all, nice nickname. Inspired by the New Gods?

 

As for your point, I don't believe the results of those polls are in any way elucidating, given that they're merely representative of a niche player-base—in other words, the typical MMO crowd—who're already predisposed to gravitate towards this kind of game.

 

I'd be much more interested in a poll that questions casual players with no prior MMO experience. Those are the people Bioware should be gunning for. If they captured that crowd's attention this game would stand the chance of becoming the single most profitable entertainment enterprise ever.

Edited September 22, 2012 by mourasantos

First of all, nice nickname. Inspired by the New Gods?

 

As for your point, I don't believe the results of those polls are in any way elucidating, given that they're merely representative of a niche player-base—in other words, the typical MMO crowd—who're already predisposed to gravitate towards this kind of game.

 

I'd be much more interested in a poll that questions casual players with no prior MMO experience. Those are the people Bioware should be gunning for. If they captured that crowd's attention this game would stand the chance of becoming the single most profitable entertainment enterprise ever.

The nickname is actually back from Star Wars Galaxies. It was the name of my main character there, a Wookiee entertainer. I don't even know what New Gods is, so I'd have to say no to that.

 

Even setting polls and such aside, I still don't think it should be an all or nothing proposition. If you want to give people a choice to PvP or participate in a bounty system, I have no problem with that. I just don't like the idea of having those things forced on me.

 

In a choice system, everyone wins. You can participate if you want or choose not to do so -- everyone gets what they want. In a forced system, you will have a good percentage of your player base that won't be happy. Why alienate them when a simple choice would accomplish everyone's desires? You can bring in new players that enjoy PvP as well as those that do not.

The nickname is actually back from Star Wars Galaxies. It was the name of my main character there, a Wookiee entertainer. I don't even know what New Gods is, so I'd have to say no to that.

 

Even setting polls and such aside, I still don't think it should be an all or nothing proposition. If you want to give people a choice to PvP or participate in a bounty system, I have no problem with that. I just don't like the idea of having those things forced on me.

 

In a choice system, everyone wins. You can participate if you want or choose not to do so -- everyone gets what they want. In a forced system, you will have a good percentage of your player base that won't be happy. Why alienate them when a simple choice would accomplish everyone's desires? You can bring in new players that enjoy PvP as well as those that do not.

I'm a firm believer that if you design a game right you can make everyone into a PVPer, everyone into a Roleplayer, and everyone into a...well, everyone's a PVE'r anyway, regardless...but you get my meaning.

As for the New Gods reference, check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalibak

Edited September 23, 2012 by mourasantos

To follow up on my previous post, I don't think SWTOR's PVP elements, as they're currently implemented, are really all that intrusive, are they? Outside of Warzones they seem to be mostly restricted to certain contested planets. It''s not like you're running into members of the opposite faction every corner you turn. In a way, PVP is "optional", even on the servers dedicated exclusively to that play style. Edited September 22, 2012 by mourasantos

Very Nice post, i see you put alot of effort into writing and 98% i agree TBH.

Thanks

 

Still a long ways before it's a finished a product, though...

A program like this makes me think on Artificial Intelligence which is a bit far ahead of us, especially on MMOs (haven´t seen one with something like this yet). So how do you suppose they do this and i bet it would take a long while and be expensive.

I'm not saying i don't want this, i love the idea actually, even thought about something like this before, I'd love more interactions with companions, but this idea seems hard to implement.

it's a great idea and has been done in games for quite a awhile (KOTOR 1 & 2 had something similar) so it shouldn't be too hard to impliment it, except VO's.

A program like this makes me think on Artificial Intelligence which is a bit far ahead of us, especially on MMOs (haven´t seen one with something like this yet). So how do you suppose they do this and i bet it would take a long while and be expensive.

I'm not saying i don't want this, i love the idea actually, even thought about something like this before, I'd love more interactions with companions, but this idea seems hard to implement.

I'm assuming by "programming" you're referring to the adaptive conversation section? If so, don't worry -- it's feasible. Time-consuming and costly to implement, sure, but entirely doable.

EDIT: applied several edits to polish text, etc..

sdfsadf Edited September 24, 2012 by cirruz

sdfsadf

This is either an obscure MMO acronym I'm not aware of, or the single most insightful post here thus far

EDIT: added speeder section

EDIT: added to U.I. section

Ah, trying to fly this kite again. What happened to the last (exactly the same) post that didn't get any traction?

 

Basically you are asking for things that either require a shipload of programming or don't provide much in terms of additional gameplay/enjoyment:

 

• extending FP conversations when people already want to spacebar through them
  
• moving Sprint back to end of Chapter 1 thus forcing people to slow jog even LONGER
  
• forced PvP
  
• Removing one of an already limited number of playing fields (Huttball) from warzone queues
  
• suggesting titles like "Coward" and forcing embarrassing emotes like "cower"
  
• undoing Group Finder when it was BEGGED for
  
• recording expensive voice-over tracks by different vo talent for the SAME classes we already have

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course, but I'd be willing to bet you're an army of one when considering THIS "The Ultimate Post." Check out some of the other Suggestion Box threads for posts that could actually be implemented within a time/budget this game can afford.

As for Bounty Hunting, here is a far more doable, enjoyable suggestion; there is a way to have player fulfilled bounties that is both opt-in AND allows all classes of characters to participate.

 

A problem with most of the scenarios presented is lack of rewards for the target of a Bounty System. If a Hunter kills the target, he collects the bounty. If he DOESN'T, additional hunters try. Wash, rinse, repeat. While an artificial system could be put in place (target kills hunter, he gets X credits), it would be a forced game mechanic as a target wouldn't like "get" anything he couldn't loot off a dead hunter's body.

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

PVP CLASS MISSIONS

 

These missions would be CLASS SPECIFIC - Smugglers smuggle, Agents find spy contacts, etc. Successful completion of the mission gives X reward.

 

However, acceptance of the mission places the player on a PvP-enabled Bounty Board/Most Wanted List. This makes participation entirely opt-in. Bounty Hunters and their mirrors, Republic Troopers, would get to hunt the players placed on the Bounty Board (Imperial Side) / Most Wanted List (Republic Side).

 

While we can pine for a time when Bounty Hunters (and Smugglers) are neutral, it is unlikely and certainly not imminent. So for the purposes of making something that works within the existing game, Bounty Hunters hunt Republic players, Troopers hunt Imperial players.

 

Missions are level range specific and take place only on Open World Planets. These would include Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine, Alderaan, Quesh, Hoth, Belsavis, Voss, Corellia and Ilum. This would ensure that both hunter and hunted have access and since there is a completion reward for the player who took the PvP Class Mission, hiding on their ship wouldn't be an option.

 

The PvP Class Mission would require several stops on their mission planets. Some missions could require multiple planetary stops for characters of higher levels (e.g. a mission that starts on Hoth could require travel to Tatooine, since Hoth players are above level for Tat.) This gives the hunters a chance to hunt the target before their mission could be completed.

 

There are certainly details to be considered - tracking devices and contacts for hunters, contacts and other enemies for the quester, etc. I'd consider making the hunting missions only available to players within 3 - 5 levels of the target, but some PvPers believe "red is dead" and that might cause some consternation.

 

But this makes everything consensual and gives rewards to whichever side completes their mission first. Plus, it could work in the game as it exists now - probably even on PvE servers (again, it's an opt-in mission play that wouldn't affect anyone else's experience.)

Ah, trying to fly this kite again. What happened to the last (exactly the same) post that didn't get any traction?

 

Basically you are asking for things that either require a shipload of programming or don't provide much in terms of additional gameplay/enjoyment:

 

• extending FP conversations when people already want to spacebar through them
  
• moving Sprint back to end of Chapter 1 thus forcing people to slow jog even LONGER
  
• forced PvP
  
• Removing one of an already limited number of playing fields (Huttball) from warzone queues
  
• suggesting titles like "Coward" and forcing embarrassing emotes like "cower"
  
• undoing Group Finder when it was BEGGED for
  
• recording expensive voice-over tracks by different vo talent for the SAME classes we already have

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course, but I'd be willing to bet you're an army of one when considering THIS "The Ultimate Post." Check out some of the other Suggestion Box threads for posts that could actually be implemented within a time/budget this game can afford.

 

If you took the time to actually read my post, you'd have found the following:

 

• The reason people already want to skip through them is precisely because of their static nature, because they've already seen their respective story elements multiple times over. Making the Flashpoints more dynamic would fix this.
  
• The sprint ability section pertains only to first time players.
  
• I'm only suggesting removing Huttball from the WZ Queue once the developers produce a sizable batch of new, actually war-related, warzones.
  
• If you can't understand the reasons I laid out for why the Group Finder is broken, you're seriously impaired. Moreover, not once did I suggest for it to be removed.
  
• Re-recording voice tracks: what's wrong with that? I'm suggesting they do that instead of spending so many other resources dishing out "new content"
  

 

Finally, to close out: for someone who thinks this post is so meaningless and putrid you spend an awful lot of energy writing your supposed refutations of my points. Perhaps that energy would be better channeled elsewhere.

Edited September 26, 2012 by mourasantos

If you took the time to actually read my post, you'd have found the following:

 

• The reason people already want to skip through them is precisely because of their static nature, because they've already seen their respective story elements multiple times over. Making the Flashpoints more dynamic would fix this.
  
• The sprint ability section pertains only to first time players.
  
• I'm only suggesting removing Huttball from the WZ Queue once the developers produce a sizable batch of new, actually war-related, warzones.
  
• If you can't understand the reasons I laid out for why the Group Finder is broken, you're seriously impaired. Moreover, not once did I suggest for it to be removed.
  
• Re-recording voice tracks: what's wrong with that? I'm suggesting they do that instead of spending so many other resources dishing out "new content"
  

 

Finally, to close out: for someone who thinks this post is so and meaningless and putrid you spend an awful lot of energy writing your SUCCESSFUL refutations of my points. Perhaps that energy would be better channeled elsewhere.

 

Changed that for you!

 

 

• You demonstrate that you're not in touch with the player base here at all. People skip Flashpoint conversations because they want to speedrun through the FPs. You would only force the conversations to take twice as long, which would clearly not work for them and renders your suggestion a misuse of Bioware's time and money. People don't want more of what is already in-game, they want NEW stuff.
   
   
  
• Why should first time players be penalized and not receive Sprint right away? That basically cuts them out (or makes them the pariahs) of any group content because they'll always be behind everyone else. Makes no sense.
   
   
  
• Your suggestion vis a vis Huttball was to take it out of the queue and give it a standalone arena people would have to travel to... which they likely would not do.
   
   
  
• Nice that you're resorting to name calling. I understand your "woe is the original way people signed up for Flashpoints, woe are the mission droids and Satele's holoterminals." However, bottom line is people can STILL use those methods. If they are NOT, it must be because the Group Finder is a better, more convenient way to go. Why would you want to undo that?
   
  By the way, you essentially did call for at least temporary removal of Group Finder for "new players":
   
  

  SOLUTION: From a functional standpoint the most quick-fire, least expensive, and easiest of solutions would be to revert the game back to its pre-Group Finder state... but after giving it some thought, I've decided this one would be the most practical: keep new players from using the Group Finder tool to run Flashpoints until they've completed them at least once in the traditional way.

• Why should they waste resources RE-DOING EXISTING VOICE-OVERS when the players all want NEW CONTENT?

 

Don't believe I ever called your posts "putrid." It's just that you are so disassociated with what the players have been clamoring for that your post here seems to be... energy that would be better channeled elsewhere, towards content the PLAYERS want that fall within the engine of this game.

Changed that for you!

 

 

• You demonstrate that you're not in touch with the player base here at all. People skip Flashpoint conversations because they want to speedrun through the FPs. You would only force the conversations to take twice as long, which would clearly not work for them and renders your suggestion a misuse of Bioware's time and money. People don't want more of what is already in-game, they want NEW stuff.
   
   
  
• Why should first time players be penalized and not receive Sprint right away? That basically cuts them out (or makes them the pariahs) of any group content because they'll always be behind everyone else. Makes no sense.
   
   
  
• Your suggestion vis a vis Huttball was to take it out of the queue and give it a standalone arena people would have to travel to... which they likely would not do.
   
   
  
• Nice that you're resorting to name calling. I understand your "woe is the original way people signed up for Flashpoints, woe are the mission droids and Satele's holoterminals." However, bottom line is people can STILL use those methods. If they are NOT, it must be because the Group Finder is a better, more convenient way to go. Why would you want to undo that?
   
  By the way, you essentially did call for at least temporary removal of Group Finder for "new players":
   
   
  
• Why should they waste resources RE-DOING EXISTING VOICE-OVERS when the players all want NEW CONTENT?

 

Don't believe I ever called your posts "putrid." It's just that you are so disassociated with what the players have been clamoring for that your post here seems to be... energy that would be better channeled elsewhere, towards content the PLAYERS want that fall within the engine of this game.

 

Okay, you win.

Okay, you win.

 

OK, good. Now about MY Bounty Hunting idea...

Changed that for you!

 

 

• You demonstrate that you're not in touch with the player base here at all. People skip Flashpoint conversations because they want to speedrun through the FPs. You would only force the conversations to take twice as long, which would clearly not work for them and renders your suggestion a misuse of Bioware's time and money. People don't want more of what is already in-game, they want NEW stuff.
   
   
  
• Why should first time players be penalized and not receive Sprint right away? That basically cuts them out (or makes them the pariahs) of any group content because they'll always be behind everyone else. Makes no sense.
   
   
  
• Your suggestion vis a vis Huttball was to take it out of the queue and give it a standalone arena people would have to travel to... which they likely would not do.
   
   
  
• Nice that you're resorting to name calling. I understand your "woe is the original way people signed up for Flashpoints, woe are the mission droids and Satele's holoterminals." However, bottom line is people can STILL use those methods. If they are NOT, it must be because the Group Finder is a better, more convenient way to go. Why would you want to undo that?
   
  By the way, you essentially did call for at least temporary removal of Group Finder for "new players":
   
   
  
• Why should they waste resources RE-DOING EXISTING VOICE-OVERS when the players all want NEW CONTENT?

 

Don't believe I ever called your posts "putrid." It's just that you are so disassociated with what the players have been clamoring for that your post here seems to be... energy that would be better channeled elsewhere, towards content the PLAYERS want that fall within the engine of this game.

 

Alright, fine. But this is the last time I'm doing this, so pay close attention:

 

 

• I don’t need to be in touch with the player base. The traditional MMO player-base is composed of an increasingly dwindling subsection of gamers that can be broadly described as asocial, anally retentive, stats-obsessed basement-dwellers who don’t know, and wouldn’t care to know, good entertainment if it hit them in the face with a monkey-wrench (I’m not pointing any fingers). In fact Bioware has done itself a tremendous disservice as a developer by actually paying heed to their “player-base’s” demands, their continuous attempts to appease them having made SWTOR increasingly impenetrable to casual gamers (the folks developers should really be gunning for, as they’re the ones who’d bring in the real $$$$$$$$).
   
  Now as for your point about people getting tired of Flashpoints because of the conversations being overly long—uh, sorry, but no. They’re not tired of the length of the conversations, they’re tired because they’ve seen them over and over over again. The same is bound to happen about three months in of any future Flashpoint release.
   
  Why? Because there’s no sense of unpredictability to them. Player’s “choices” are illusory at best, what little narrative there is seems to have been tacked on almost as an afterthought, and the sad fact of the matter is that most of them are not all that enticing the first time you run them, let alone the thirtieth. My proposal would not only add some much needed dynamism to these FP scenarios, it would also, more importantly, substantially enhance the experience for the FIRST TIME PLAYER. The more you enhance the experience for the first time player, the better first impressions of the game are, the better first impressions are, the more chances you have of obtaining a new sub, the more subs you have, the healthier the game is, etc...etc...etc...
   
  I fail to see how developing Makeb, or any other post-50 contents (including Flashpoints) would help in this regard. But to each his own, I guess.
   
   
  
• First time players are not “penalized”. It’s their first time playing, they wouldn’t know the difference. To them, as it did for me, the sprint ability would function as just another dangling carrot.
   
   
  
• Ha! People can still use those methods. Really? They’re sure as hell not told to by the game. In fact SWTOR outright offers them incentives NOT to. I’ll tell you, if a first time player ever comes into this game and somehow figures out that he needs to totally ignore the tool which the game provides and expressly tells us to use in order to experience the Flashpoints’ stories as they should be, then I’d have to say Sherlock Holmes has been officially supplanted.
   
  

Edited September 26, 2012 by mourasantos

One last thing: your idea for the Bounty Hunter system is actually quite good (though I fail to see how it cancels out my own—they're actually fairly complimentary of each other).

 

One final piece of advice: you'd be doing yourself a great service if you focused your creative powers toward actually creating, rather than attempting to destroy the ideas of others.

Edited September 26, 2012 by mourasantos

EDIT: added THE OLD HERMIT section

EDIT: Added Combat System section