Ok so there are 2 Hybrid builds outside, 20/23/3 from newton and 11/8/27 from Akromious. There is another one similar to 11/8/27 that popped up in the heroics/fps/ops forums mentioned here

 

The spec 11/2/33 which uses Cascading Power with Deadly Saber and Rupture bleeds. It is still basically Rage spec but without Force Exhaustion (and Shockwave that comes with Force Exhaustion). Most of the damage still comes from Smash but followed closley behind by your bleeds.

 

Some raid parses using the aptly named.. dotsmash spec

Lafayette Marauder dotsmash 11/2/32

Bestia - http://www.torparse.com/a/561480/3/0/Overview 3071

Tyrans - http://www.torparse.com/a/561480/7/0/Overview 3225

Raptus - http://www.torparse.com/a/561480/14/0/Overview 2704

Masters - http://www.torparse.com/a/561480/16/0/Overview 2961

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100rcdoZbZfrMkbGkRfc.3

 

I don't think Atrixx has an AMR. The essence of it is giving up Force Crush to pick up Deadly Saber without sacrificing Cascading Power (as the other marauder hybrids generally do). Deadly Saber, Rupture, Obliterate, Smash, Force Scream, Ravage and Vicious Throw all on cooldown. It's fine to delay Rupture by a GCD or two if you can get it directly prior to a Smash. Try to keep Ravage within a Cascading Power buff (should be every third Smash exactly).

 

One perk of this spec is Deadly Saber's application is delayed by the use of Smash and Scream (neither of which exist in the Annihilation rotation), which means that you will generally get more ticks per activation than an Annihilation marauder will.

 

I looked at the logs and wrote a little something about the spec

 

Marauder / Sentinel dotsmash hybrid → http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/22/look-attrixs-hybrid-marauder-dps-build/

Edited January 29, 2014 by paowee

Ok so there are 2 Hybrid builds outside, 20/23/3 from newton and 11/8/27 from Akromious. There is another one similar to 11/8/27 that popped up in the heroics/fps/ops forums mentioned here by KBN. The "inventor" according to him is a Marauder from his server Ebon Hawk named Attrix.

 

Correction: Atrixx is just the most current (and highest-parsing) user of the spec. The first user of the spec I ever saw was Charadith. His original parse (before dummy modifiers) is here: http://www.torparse.com/a/481749/time/1383607484/1383607764/0/Damage+Dealt

Correction, I was first! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=545615. Wait, that was pre-2.0

 

I used to run the focus/watchmen hybrid in pvp..because spec ADD. It's funny there cuz people see dots and think watchmen, but then you bust out a beastly force sweep. It was even nicer before they took singularity away from Force Stasis/Choke and all force attacks(bleeds/burns) got a 30% boost, but Heightened/Cascading Power is a really solid boost.

Looking a little closer there's (obviously) some differences to the old lvl 50 version...one of the perks that stood out to me back then was the 30% from Bleedout and the 30% from Dark Resonance(only 15% now). It's not possible to get Bleedout and Cascading Power...at least not without sacrificing the Accuracy boost. It would be interesting to see the difference in swapping Cascading Power for Bleedout. I'm sure a more ambitious theorycrafter than I could figure out pretty quickly whether a 9% boost that's up ~60% of the time wins over a 30% boost to your bleeds that crit 30-40% of the time.

Looking a little closer there's (obviously) some differences to the old lvl 50 version...one of the perks that stood out to me back then was the 30% from Bleedout and the 30% from Dark Resonance(only 15% now). It's not possible to get Bleedout and Cascading Power...at least not without sacrificing the Accuracy boost. It would be interesting to see the difference in swapping Cascading Power for Bleedout. I'm sure a more ambitious theorycrafter than I could figure out pretty quickly whether a 9% boost that's up ~60% of the time wins over a 30% boost to your bleeds that crit 30-40% of the time.

 

it isnt worth it, bleeds are 20% dmg, crit 30% of the time, and a 30% surge will increase the total dmg of a crit by about 15-20%. .2*.3*.2=1.2% .2*.3*.15=.9%. cascade is .09*.6=5.4%

Whatever or whoever made it, I FREAKING LOVE IT! Also i am working on getting a bit more acc to make it better. Also dont forget about goresmash, 2/22/23 it has some huge burst/smashes but really crappy dps(good for pvp)

Wow. The damage this does does more than my Watchman (Ima Sentinel, but we don't have this on our forums, so I'm over here), even when I'm screwing up all over the place. I haven't time to read the log real closely, but does he Smash on CD or Smash when Shockwave procs are present.

Wow. The damage this does does more than my Watchman (Ima Sentinel, but we don't have this on our forums, so I'm over here), even when I'm screwing up all over the place. I haven't time to read the log real closely, but does he Smash on CD or Smash when Shockwave procs are present.

 

On cooldown.

The dotsmash spec can hit the 3800 DPS mark.. here's a parse by lafayette

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/561758/63/0/Overview

 

And some extra raid videos from his twitch http://www.twitch.tv/lafaygts/c/3596435

Read though Paowee's guide closer and messed with this a bit last night. I can't say for sure if it's optimal, but for me it seemed to work well to cycle my Overload Saber as such: Apply 1 stack -> Blade Storm -> Apply 2nd Stack -> Force Sweep -> Apply 3rd Stack. Doing this you get 2 ticks for each of your first 2 stacks and 3 ticks at 3 stacks(as usual). This gives you basically 100% uptime on Overload Saber...3sec at 1 & 2 stacks, 6 sec at 3 stacks, refresh.

 

I forgot to upload my log, but I did find a cycle of Atrixx's parse that was similar. I removed some lines to make it a little more readable.

 

07:44:51.222 Atrixx activates Deadly Saber.

07:44:51.826 Atrixx activates Obliterate. <- Applies first stack

07:44:51.827 Atrixx's Deadly Saber adds effect Bleeding (Physical) to Operations Training Dummy.

07:44:51.827 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 424 internal damage, causing 424 threat. <--1st tick at 1 stack

07:44:52.529 Atrixx's Obliterate hits Operations Training Dummy for 2865 energy damage, causing 2865 threat.

07:44:53.418 Atrixx activates Smash.

07:44:53.419 Atrixx's Smash critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 8808* kinetic damage, causing 8808 threat!

07:44:54.091 Atrixx's Obliterate misses Operations Training Dummy, causing 1 threat.

07:44:54.966 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 459 internal damage, causing 459 threat. <--2nd tick at 1 stack

07:44:54.966 Atrixx activates Rupture. <--Applies 2nd Stack

07:44:54.968 Atrixx's Rupture adds effect Bleeding (Physical) to Operations Training Dummy.

07:44:54.969 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1705* internal damage, causing 1705 threat! <--1st tick at 2 stacks

07:44:55.697 Atrixx's Rupture critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1911* energy damage, causing 1911 threat!

07:44:55.747 Atrixx's Rupture misses Operations Training Dummy, causing 1 threat.

07:44:56.010 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 929* internal damage, causing 929 threat!

07:44:56.527 Atrixx activates Force Scream.

07:44:56.832 Atrixx's Force Scream hits Operations Training Dummy for 3644 kinetic damage, causing 3644 threat.

07:44:57.010 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 501 internal damage, causing 501 threat.

07:44:57.941 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 1002 internal damage, causing 1002 threat. <--2nd tick at 2 stacks

07:44:57.941 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 539 internal damage, causing 539 threat.

07:44:58.021 Atrixx activates Vicious Slash. <--Applies 3rd stack

07:44:58.022 Atrixx's Force Lash hits Operations Training Dummy for 245 energy damage, causing 245 threat.

07:44:58.023 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 1617 internal damage, causing 1617 threat. <--1st tick at 3 stacks

07:44:58.023 Atrixx loses Deadly Saber.

 

The above isn't quite what I described because Smash and Scream are swapped in order, but it shows the 7 ticks over the full 12s cooldown of Deadly Saber. This should be possible every single Overload Saber because Force Sweep, Blade Storm and Overload Saber are all natural 12sec cooldowns. With the cooldown reduction on smash it will be off cooldown for a bit to make this OS cycle work correctly and I can't say for sure if the 100% uptime is better or worse than getting Force Sweep slightly more often than once every 12 sec. Looking at Atrixx's 1.5mil parse he had 37 smashes and doing it every 12s would produce 33. So over 400sec, is higher bleed uptime worth 4 fewer smashes? It's a tough call. On the surface, probably not, but it would also ensure that you always have Cascading Power for your 3 stack ticks. Also, there's not many fights that allow for 6+ straight minutes on the target so the discrepancy in Smashes would shrink.

 

Another note, Paowee's write up lists Blade Storm as 15s cooldown, but it should be 12s. I'm not sure why Atrixx doesn't use it more often because it's on the same cooldown as Obliterate and is free w/ the proc so, I'd think he'd have the same amount of Obliterates, Screams and Smashes.

 

ps. Sorry for the interchanging of Sentinel and Marauder terminology...I don't have a Marauder so the Sent terms are more familiar.

Read though Paowee's guide closer and messed with this a bit last night. I can't say for sure if it's optimal, but for me it seemed to work well to cycle my Overload Saber as such: Apply 1 stack -> Blade Storm -> Apply 2nd Stack -> Forc...

 

I didn't look much into optimal delay stacking of Deadly Saber >_<. I just assumed that because of scream and smash the stacks will fall in "slowly" and nicely by themselves. But that is a great observation you made. 12 second duration of Deadly Saber , with Deadly Saber on a 12 second cooldown. That's 100% uptime if you stagger one Force Ability in between your single target ranged abilities

 

Adding some highlights to your log quote:

 

07:44:51.222 Atrixx activates Deadly Saber.

07:44:51.826 Atrixx activates Obliterate. <- Applies first stack

07:44:51.827 Atrixx's Deadly Saber adds effect Bleeding (Physical) to Operations Training Dummy.

07:44:51.827 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 424 internal damage, causing 424 threat.

07:44:52.529 Atrixx's Obliterate hits Operations Training Dummy for 2865 energy damage, causing 2865 threat.

07:44:53.418 Atrixx activates Smash.

07:44:53.419 Atrixx's Smash critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 8808* kinetic damage, causing 8808 threat!

07:44:54.091 Atrixx's Obliterate misses Operations Training Dummy, causing 1 threat.

07:44:54.966 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 459 internal damage, causing 459 threat.

07:44:54.966 Atrixx activatesRupture. <--Applies 2nd Stack

07:44:54.968 Atrixx's Rupture adds effect Bleeding (Physical) to Operations Training Dummy.

07:44:54.969 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1705* internal damage, causing 1705 threat!

07:44:55.697 Atrixx's Rupture critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1911* energy damage, causing 1911 threat!

07:44:55.747 Atrixx's Rupture misses Operations Training Dummy, causing 1 threat.

07:44:56.010 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 929* internal damage, causing 929 threat!

07:44:56.527 Atrixx activates Force Scream.

07:44:56.832 Atrixx's Force Scream hits Operations Training Dummy for 3644 kinetic damage, causing 3644 threat.

07:44:57.010 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 501 internal damage, causing 501 threat.

07:44:57.941 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 1002 internal damage, causing 1002 threat.

07:44:57.941 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 539 internal damage, causing 539 threat.

07:44:58.021 Atrixx activates Vicious Slash. <--Applies 3rd stack

07:44:58.022 Atrixx's Force Lash hits Operations Training Dummy for 245 energy damage, causing 245 threat.

07:44:58.023 Atrixx's Bleeding (Physical) hits Operations Training Dummy for 1617 internal damage, causing 1617 threat.

07:44:58.023 Atrixx loses Deadly Saber.

 

The red abilities applies Deadly Saber, the yellow abilities delays and staggers Deadly Saber. He gains Deadly Saber at 0:51 and loses the buff at 0:58. That is roughly 7 seconds. He applies the 3rd stack at 0:58 and the bleed lasts 6 seconds. That's a total of 12 second duration dot. And guess what.. Deadly Saber is on a 12 second cooldown. 100% uptime Nice eye Doubletap

 

I've updated the write-up and also corrected Scream.. 12 sec cooldown. It could have been intentional or accidental how he delays scream. 12 second cooldown but he uses it around 3 seconds later (to delay and stagger deadly saber).

Edited January 23, 2014 by paowee

Yeah and if you make sure to always use Smash as the second delay you get 2 of your 3 stack ticks under Cascading Power.

 

The only down side to the rigid cycle is you don't take advantage of the reduced cooldown of Smash granted by Vicious Slash. Which equates to one extra smash about every two minutes if you're on the target 100% of the time.

 

 

Basically the rotation is:

Deadly Saber -> Filler 1 -> Scream -> Filler 2 -> Smash -> Filler 3 -> Filler 4 -> Filler 5 -> Repeat

 

Priority for Filler 2 would be Rupture if it's up. Filler 3 would be Ravage(which takes out Filler 4) if it's up.

Yeah and if you make sure to always use Smash as the second delay you get 2 of your 3 stack ticks under Cascading Power.

 

The only down side to the rigid cycle is you don't take advantage of the reduced cooldown of Smash granted by Vicious Slash. Which equates to one extra smash about every two minutes if you're on the target 100% of the time.

 

 

Basically the rotation is:

Deadly Saber -> Filler 1 -> Scream -> Filler 2 -> Smash -> Filler 3 -> Filler 4 -> Filler 5 -> Repeat

 

Priority for Filler 2 would be Rupture if it's up. Filler 3 would be Ravage(which takes out Filler 4) if it's up.

 

Now the question is....is this more DPS than using Smash as early as possible? He has a recent 3800 DPS parse here http://www.torparse.com/a/561758/63/0/Overview to dig in. 100% uptime on Deadly Saber or 9 second Smashes hmm..

Edited January 23, 2014 by paowee

Now the question is....is this more DPS than using Smash as early as possible? He has a recent 3800 DPS parse here http://www.torparse.com/a/561758/63/0/Overview to dig in. 100% uptime on Deadly Saber or 9 second Smashes hmm..

 

Yeah it really depends on the fight I think. A fight that has pauses in dps would probably lean towards the DoT uptime since it takes about 1.5-2 min of being on the boss 100% to get an extra smash in.

 

On the log posted Lafayette was hitting smash every 16s or so on average. So I think the 100% uptime would have been fine there. I'm guessing he delayed a few to get in position to smash adds as a group. I just don't think there are many fights where you're on boss enough without pause or movement that you're going to be reliably hitting smash every 9-10 sec.

Just a quick question i have to use another acc enhancement to get close to my normal 99.70 acc since i lose rolls on the acc pieces for 78 alot... But is it important to hit that point again in this spec? i hate that i cant find an amr to try to move gear around to reach a point but so far not knowing the spec ive hit 3400 but thats more to not knowing the rotation as much as i do watchman. Any theorycrafters or maybe just a basic advice to this? like augs to power which i think would be right with 100 crit on smash but i could be wrong there. thanks

From what I've seen in my own parses (which I still need to smooth out), I've sat at 98.8% accuracy and RNG screwed me as the boss/dummy resisted two of my Smash/Force Sweep, so I'd probably recommend running 4 Surge/6 Accuracy. When I switched out, I went from 87% Surge to 85% Surge, which in the scheme of things doesn't matter as much.

The fight he is posting has a crapload of adds to AOE so it really isnt a good reputation on how this spec should be played, look at the damage from sweeping slash lol... Really full rage probally woulda been better for that fight but I like this spec so much im starting to play everything with it. You guys think 99.43 acc (with 2 points in acc talent) is enough? I am thinking it might be. When i get a chance this weekend i will do some more single target dummy parses but for now I have hit 3600s on the dummy a few times.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/559209/26/0/Overview

The fight he is posting has a crapload of adds to AOE so it really isnt a good reputation on how this spec should be played, look at the damage from sweeping slash lol... Really full rage probally woulda been better for that fight but I like this spec so much im starting to play everything with it. You guys think 99.43 acc (with 2 points in acc talent) is enough? I am thinking it might be. When i get a chance this weekend i will do some more single target dummy parses but for now I have hit 3600s on the dummy a few times.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/559209/26/0/Overview

 

 

After upgrading my 98.8 to 99.x ( can't remember exact number ) my parses became constant, and I am no longer seeing a huge deviation between parses and seem to have eliminated the " lucky RNG parse "

Just adding some more info about the dot spec

 

Enhancements

Atrixx • 13 hours ago

But when im finished winning the last pieces i need, my ideal stat set up is going to be 4 acc/power 78 enhancements and 2 acc/power implants and power/surge everywhere else, and to explain the saber strike in my parse, i messed up on my rotation and got to 28 fury with 1 rage and no abilities to use with Force Scream on a 2-3 sec CD, but overall i appreciate this in-depth guide xD and ill try to reparse again cuz apparently i didnt realize i wasnt above 100% acc for my 3747 parse, anyways if you have any more questions Paowee ill be happy to help anyway i can

 

0 Crit build

Rapid-Phyre • 2 days ago

Also of note, Atrixx stacks almost/completely no crit, his crit only comes from mainstat. His crit is barely over 19%.

I will try to get some more parses this weekend too and hammer out a clean one. Freaking love this spec tho.

Thanks everyone for your work towards this, and thank you Paowee for giving this a bit more attention. I had a guildie running something similar to this pre-2.0, but then he left the game for a time and didn't bother doing anything like it again when he recently came back. After trying my practiced Annihilation against Dotsmash (which was pretty crappy with under 100% acc and a few botched Smashes) I was parsing around the same level. I don't think this Hybrid is far better than the other specs, but it's a different way of playing which is nice.

 

I'll keep practicing and let you know if I have anything to add. I'd put up my parses but my Sentinel is severely undergeared so I doubt they'll be of any help (it's the most neglected of my 3 main DPS).

I have played carn for well over a year now exclusively. I can honestly say I might figure this out for raids ROFL. After a day with this spec I've already parsed higher than any carn parse I ever put out, and with little effort. My gear isnt even optimized yet! http://www.torparse.com/a/565736 Seems to do a bit better for me on single target fights because of the slight ramp up time (its a bit longer than carn and harder to manage, even though less abilities used.) I'm kind of conflicted about dst usage as it def hits alot harder than in carn, but gives you no fury, and it seems like your main goal should be getting those smashes out with berserk up, using deadly saber pretty much on cd, and BUILDIING FURY FOR BERSERK. lol I will continue to play around with it some more. Do you think its safe to say that if you have to use assault you ****ed something up? Thx again lafy for getting me back into parsing, it sucks seeing operatives and mercs doing more burst AND sustained than maras.

Tried different approaches towards this spec. Got best result by squeezing as many Vicious Slashes/Slashes in as Rage/Focus management would allow and go for as many Smashes/Force Sweeps as possible (I find thing like that easier to execute in boss fights than perfect DoT-Synchronization):

 

1 Mio Dummy, debuffed. 3723 (3746 if calculated from TTK)

http://www.torparse.com/a/566450/1/0/Damage+Dealt

(in basically full 78s: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/19471e6b-c244-4c90-8c68-50a14cb05247)

<- 131 Crit, Rest power, 5 Slots Accuracy (470), 5 Slots Surge (470)

 

Far from perfect execution though, have to work on getting the flow of it into my fingertips like I'm used to with Watchman priorities...

 

Thing is, if you maintain the rotation built around Smashes/Force Sweeps, you can't do wrong very much. There's probably 3 or 4 possible approches to executing this spec, and they all give quite good results, I think. Curious, which ony will turn out the very best in the end...

Tried different approaches towards this spec. Got best result by squeezing as many Vicious Slashes/Slashes in as Rage/Focus management would allow and go for as many Smashes/Force Sweeps as possible (I find thing like that easier to execute in boss fights than perfect DoT-Synchronization):..

 

Interesting. Like Rage spec, max DPS is when you can dish out as much Vicious Slash as you can. but then..

 

So you say Smash as early as possible is giving you more dps than 100% uptime on Deadly Saber? Or is it possible to get 12 second DS dots with Smash on the shortest CD and not spacing it out with Force Scream?

I'm actually not worrying about lengthening Dot uptimes at all. I'm keeping Deadly Saber/Overload Saber on Cooldown, if Focus/rage management let's me, but never at the cost of delaying Smash. Ideally I'll have enough focus to do DS/OS on Cooldown and still go for Maximum Smashes. Cauterize is a bit lower in priority for me: If I can squeeze it in before Smash it's good, but I'm not desperately keeping it on Cooldown as it will never do as much damage as Slash does.

 

But that's probably not be the best way to do it, it's just how I find it easy enough to play, when I have to concentrate on boss phases, movement etc. as well... :-)