I don't follow everyone's posts on a dead game.

 

Seriously dude you've literally replied to other posts ive made on this very topic. I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing, but anyway, i have said practically everywhere that sents are better BECAUSE THEY GET DR.

 

So i don't need the lecture.

I also dont think we're as sad as PTs, seeing as i play both, just PT not that good at.

 

Yes DR us superior, but i want to qualify the upcoming changes because while I personally do not see it making us OP the POTENTIAL is there.

snip

 

Well I'm mostly just debating the point that the focused defense changes matter. They don't.

Well I'm mostly just debating the point that the focused defense changes matter. They don't.

 

It doesn't unless they pull a merc 5.0 bit and blow it out of the water.

I dont see them doing that (they dont like us that much) but since theres a chance in a blue moon i feel obliged to state the possibility until we see it.

And its all on fairly long cd's (except immunity after leap which can be neutralized by not letting you leap). Also the Endure Pain utility got moved to Enraged Defense, which is terrible since its on a much longer cd and if you're being focused it only lasts a second or two.

 

I've mained a Jugg in this game since launch, there have been times they were at the top of the mobility meta (mostly 1.0 up to about 3.0 when everyone started getting new tools), but right now they are in the bottom third and combined with less cooldown uptime than the other melee classes except Sin (who have vanish, which is more powerful when used properly), they are sitting ducks for the most part. Easiest way to completely take a Vig/Veng player out in every game, just don't let him leap.

 

Alternatively, we could remove ball lightning speed utility from sins, nerf the hell out of predation for maras (put it on a 2 minute cooldown or something), nerf Hydraulics (increase cooldown to like a minute 30 or something), and do the same to the ranged classes... but nobody wants to get nerfed. So if you don't want to swing a hammer at every other class in the game, Juggs need a boost to keep up in the mobility meta. QUOTE}

 

do they? or is being able to stay outside a jugs attack rng a viable means of avoiding all the dmg they do??? remember your a dps burst class you do huge burst then you die.In fact most jugs are so spoiled with skanking it seems you all forget your not suppose to be a effin mercs hence the reason the nerf to skanking! besides which you have an ability called mad dash you don't need anything else.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Kazz_Devlin

it seems you all forget your not suppose to be a effin mercs

 

Even mercs aren't supposed to be mercs, so to speak. OR are you saying their defenses are fair compared to what half of other classes have?

Even mercs aren't supposed to be mercs, so to speak. OR are you saying their defenses are fair compared to what half of other classes have?

 

Well he also called us a DPS burst class. My point was for Vig/Veng, which is definitely not a burst spec. Even when it was a 3 second Ravage, it wasn't although it had some burst, but now, Vig/Veng is one of the least bursty specs in the game, the only 20k+ attack you can get is Impale and you usually need stacks of Pooled Hatred to see that, and its only an auto crit once a minute.

Even mercs aren't supposed to be mercs, so to speak. OR are you saying their defenses are fair compared to what half of other classes have?

 

hell no! Just seems EVERYONE wants to play an I win class. I.e beable to put out Pure DPS spec type DPS yet avoid being a glass cannon makes peeps that play mara's and assassins moot why play a glass cannon spec and do huge DPS when I can play an I win class and achieve the same thing with less deaths

Edited April 29, 2018 by Kazz_Devlin

You know, I agree with that jug should be less mobile but it should be made up with their ability to stay alive longer than others in that case. Right now they're a cannon fodder and less viable than pt dps.

 

I'm fine with that as long as they reduce your DPS the longer you live the less DPS you do otherwise your no different than merc's. If you want to be a hybrid Tank+DPS your DPS gets cut in half Pure DPS spec's are suppose to be glass cannons. This is why Merc's and snipers break trinity!

I'm fine with that as long as they reduce your DPS the longer you live the less DPS you do otherwise your no different than merc's. If you want to be a hybrid Tank+DPS your DPS gets cut in half Pure DPS spec's are suppose to be glass cannons. This is why Merc's and snipers break trinity!

 

You do realize the discussion we were having at that point was a comparison to MARAs right?

 

I.e. the class thats supposed to be a glass cannon thats currently better than us in every way?

It's been bugging me.

 

What exactly are people thinking about when they call maras a "glass cannon".

 

You can go back as far as you want, were they ever a fragile class.

It's been bugging me.

 

What exactly are people thinking about when they call maras a "glass cannon".

 

You can go back as far as you want, were they ever a fragile class.

 

yeah once DCD's are gone same as sins

You do realize the discussion we were having at that point was a comparison to MARAs right?

 

I.e. the class thats supposed to be a glass cannon thats currently better than us in every way?

 

yes but i was referring to the jug DPS jugs to be exact they as well as mara's and sins and mercs should all be glass cannons unless peeps are ok playing a hybrid class which should then have their DPS reduced since they aren't a pure DPS spec they are a hybrid

 

 

isn't mara getting addressed next update???

yes but i was referring to the jug DPS jugs to be exact they as well as mara's and sins and mercs should all be glass cannons unless peeps are ok playing a hybrid class which should then have their DPS reduced since they aren't a pure DPS spec they are a hybrid

 

 

isn't mara getting addressed next update???

 

Are you seriously clumping dps guardians in the same category as mercs or even maras? I suppose you're another "selt heal is op, maras are thus fine" person?

 

I do happen to think that all the currently better performing survivability wise specs could use some survivability nerfs.

 

If you really think guardian dps is a hybrid tank in pvp, god help you. Its squisher than both of the "pure" dps classes - mara and sniper.

 

On the damage numbers front, i do think guardians should have better survivability but less damage than a mara. Currently we're lower in both. And unless they dramatically overbuff focused defense tomorrow it will remain that way.

 

Guardians get a probably slight buff in the fix to the scale of focused defense (which again, i feel obliged to point out, has been over a year coming). Focus gets a DR buff that will leave it as a joke in comparison to concentration.

 

Which brings us to maras. The damage nerf is prsctically negligible if my guildie is to be believed. And if i understand the description properly they're losing one of their cc imunities, but its becoming a still powerful DCD. I dont mara, so this comes from guildies and the thread on them.

 

we'll know for sure tomorrow, but my guess is the status quo is maintained.

It's pretty sad when we get actually clueless people that don't even pvp drop in here and pretend that they know what current meta is and gloat how good jug dps are. They're even lagging behind in dps as well as survivability, that's simply truth and there are statistics for it.

It's pretty sad when we get actually clueless people that don't even pvp drop in here and pretend that they know what current meta is and gloat how good jug dps are. They're even lagging behind in dps as well as survivability, that's simply truth and there are statistics for it.

 

Focus certainly especially by comparison to sents.

 

Dps wise vigi is fine, and better than focus defensively. Still underwhelming compared to mara in my opinion. But certainly more debatable.

Imo Jug DPS should get some kind of "stand your ground / last stand" ability to compensate for lack of combat reset all other melee dps apart from vanguard (they need buffs too) has. Something that you can pop, lasts about 20 minute giving you survival bonuses but makes you trully collapse at the end of its duration, like the old undying rage. Endure Pain hardly does it as a "last stand" given how it can be overcome in literally 2 global cooldowns by a single player as it doesn't provide any damage reduction except in the case of vengeance.

 

I'd honestly just take something away from overperforming marauders and give it to jugs, same case with overbuffed mercenaries. I can see Cloak of Pain or Undying Rage with collapse effect with a base 5 second duration (lasting maximum 15 seconds for as long as you're attacked so it would be an anti focus, too) as a jug DPS thing. Same for the healing burst Merc has. It should be a Vanguard thing and heal them up to 75% rapidly for x seconds.

 

New heals are nice but "bursting through" and overhealing is still a thing. Keep them but we still need more.

 

I agree with a sentiment that Jugs should be least mobile melee class but they should make it up with some sturdiness. I'd rather see it in form of active abilities that require skill to use instead of passives, however Rage spec should definitely get the same Gravity Manipulation (6 sec cc immun after every second Crush) treatment as marauder has. Vengeance has a cc immunity after leap, fine, but rage has nothing. It's pretty mobile in terms of active speed boosts and root breaks but it has no hardstun defense at all.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Alec_Fortescue

While i can certainly sympthasize, the gap between maras a juggies isnt as great as the one between PTs and mercs.

While i can certainly sympthasize, the gap between maras a juggies isnt as great as the one between PTs and mercs.

 

Not even close. Or hell between PTs and (insert class here).

Not even close. Or hell between PTs and (insert class here).

 

I drew this delination because the poster before me was going off on giving guardians abilities from maras. As i play gaurdians and VG i definately feel the difference.

 

Though he has one point, both melt under pressure

While i can certainly sympthasize, the gap between maras a juggies isnt as great as the one between PTs and mercs.

 

Oh hell no it's not but that's a topic for PT forum.

 

RN rage is very FUN to play but it still lacks ranked viability. It's extremely easy to shut it down. It has great root breaking but it lacks actual defense so root/stun won't happen for some time unlike so many other classes have rn.

 

Rage needs Gravity Manipulation to get Marauder treatment.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Alec_Fortescue

Oh hell no it's not but that's a topic for PT forum.

 

RN rage is very FUN to play but it still lacks ranked viability. It's extremely easy to shut it down. It has great root breaking but it lacks actual defense so root/stun won't happen for some time unlike so many other classes have rn.

 

Rage needs Gravity Manipulation to get Marauder treatment.

 

Again i spent 8 months maining a dps guardian, primarily vigi for the reason that focus is simply a lesser mara. Vigi at least has "not a worse mara" going for it.

 

But consider the defensives of mercs and PTs. Its undeniably a larger gap. We just have a focus problem (no way to avoid damage, if we're focused, we're screwed). PTs jave a blanket defensive problem, the shield and kolto really suck by comparison to ward, reflect, and FD (and even enure if used well and you have a freecasting healer but hahahaha how often does that happen). Now compare either us or PTs to mercs, snipers, or maras and thats really where both of us should be screaming.

But you have Combat Focus, Endure Pain, Immunity after leap and Blade Blitz?

 

Combat focus, enure remove impairing efect if u spec that only, otherwise not, so u spent 2 points for them. Lame is the fact that after root braker it can be reaplied asap so those are useless. Those talent to be worth taking should give movement imunity like all classes have at some point for the duration. And leap must stun 1 sec (not afecting resolve-make the class unique) and root the target for minimum 4 sec no matter what. Then jug will be so fun to play.