I love it! Thinly veiled contempt is refreshing!

 

I understand the concept people are different and enjoy different things. I know some people will watch their favorite movie again and again because they like the way the story is told, the message behind it, the emotions it compels...

 

What I fail to understand is how anyone can enjoy the core of the SWTOR story enough to put up with it a second or more time, with no real emotion, the only memorable characters being Grand Moff Kilran (because I loved poking fun at him on my smuggler but I can do that in hardmodes) and Satele because she appears so often as the FP quest giver.

 

oh... I see my wrong assumption, i am assuming people with alts actually enjoy that part, they are most likely trudging through it to get to the part they want from the alt.

Funny you assume that people who roll any number of alts (I am nearly constantly making them) just want one thing and that's end game. I have 3 50's so far and once I hit 50 on each of them I play them enough to get some decent gear on them and then they get pulled out as needed for the guild. Because at that point I am working on another series of alts. Hell I've got a myriad of alts across multiple servers. And just started another on a PvP server to give that a go because I typically only go to PvE servers. The thing is the class stories are different for each class and there is even a degree of difference between the two AC's in the same base class. The plays type is different, you have different abilities and often times it take completely different strategies to complete the same quests. Granted some of the side quests I'll spacebar my way through because I have done em a hundred times already but I almost never do that in the class quests. It's different strokes for different folks and all that jazz man. You don't have to understand why I roll alts, you just have to accept that I do.

Actually, I assume most people roll alts for one of a few reasons

- Bank and crafting alts

- Different combat roles to help fill spots (not exclusive to ops)

- To discover a play-style they enjoy

- To see NEW content.

 

The first 3 may or may not care for the content as they work toward that goal. This thread seems to be focused on the last type.

 

I guess my point is, how do people put up with the huge amount of repetition to see that new stuff?

Because, despite your inability to understand, they enjoy it. It really is that simple.

I guess my point is, how do people put up with the huge amount of repetition to see that new stuff?

I've played games that had, in my opinion, mediocre storytelling. I play it once, maybe twice, but probably not.

Now, every BioWare game I've played, the storytelling was so good, I had to play it over and over. I also own movies on blu-ray. Why own movies if you only watch them once? No, I watch them over and over again. The Bourne Trilogy, the Star Wars movies, Transporter, Avatar, you name it. I own them because I want to watch the story again sometime.

It's no different here. If the storytelling in TOR was as mediocre as most MMOs, I wouldn't be doing this.

Also, roleplay. Each and every one of my characters have a unique personality and wit about them. How I interact with the world around me creates quite a different experience for me in my head. Yes, in my head. That's where it counts, after all.

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

The part in bold is where your argument falls on it's face. There is no such thing as the "main goal" in an MMO. Every person plays differently and everyone does in these games what they want to. However, if there was a main goal in ToR is certainly wouldn't be to race to the finish line, it would be to experience the story lines, which is the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

Well, then, I guess this isn't for you. I've found differences which actually surprised me as I expected it to always be as you assert in doing various planet quest series. I got different choices and was able to make different responses between my sage and my 'slinger.

Exactly. The conversations can be completely different depending on your class, the gameplay is different depending on your class, and you get an entirely new class story line.

Bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game. However, with Bioware's main focus as I stated before which is clearly centered around leveling and this story of theirs isn't going to last long at all. The only way this game will make it 5 years from now, is with a vast amount of end game content, less grinding of quests and a more PvP/PvE content.

 

I've broken it down into a more "explanatory" context for the players that are surely going to disagree with my statements, regardless of how true they may or may not be in your own opinions. With a casual player, we'll say they have roughly 3 hours of play time per day, averaging roughly 15-20 hours per week, at an average of 3-4 levels per week. And this is only if you wish to level every single class from 1-50 for both factions, meaning you're that diehard for a storyline.

 

(Based on casual players, that aren't glued to their computers 24/7 and actually listening to the story/side quests)

3-4 levels per week, with 15-20 hours playing time

3+ months per character

8 different story lines = 24 months of non-stop leveling alts

(optional leveling both sub-classes) 16 different sub-classes = 48 months

 

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

 

I enjoy TOR, I think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this Bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

thnx for the math dude !1!!!!

Playing alts in SW:TOR is more enjoyable than playing alts in WoW. If people can stand doing the same quests with the same static text and killing the same boars in WoW, they should have a blast in SW:TOR that at least entertains you with cutscenes, conversations and different class story.

Not only that, they reward you for alting by unlocking global buffs through the legacy system.

So how anyone can criticize alt leveling in SW:TOR, when it is even more bland in WoW, is beyond me.

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

Yeah it's a strange idea.

By far the worst part of it though is only having ONE levelling path per side to take alts though, I can't remember a MMORPG that didn't launch with at least 2-3 levelling paths per side to choose from.

A negative part of voice acting I guess.

Yeah it's a strange idea.

 

By far the worst part of it though is only having ONE levelling path per side to take alts though, I can't remember a MMORPG that didn't launch with at least 2-3 levelling paths per side to choose from.

 

A negative part of voice acting I guess.

RIFT. It was mind-bleedingly the same. Even the opposite faction had lots of the same quests. And WoW when it was 3 months old. And EQ. And EQ2 when they were 3 months old. And LotRO when it was 3 months old. And....

I think you get my point.

Exactly. The conversations can be completely different depending on your class, the gameplay is different depending on your class, and you get an entirely new class story line.

There's light side/dark side which sometimes (most times tbh) have no difference but dialogue and very occasionally (I think I counted 3 times in every single quest from 1-50) another quest stage for one side or the other.

But the quests do not vary by class (except the class quest of course).

Reasons I play SWTOR -

Space Combat - reminds me of the "way back" of X-Wing and Tie Fighter...

lol.

trolling?

RIFT. It was mind-bleedingly the same. Even the opposite faction had lots of the same quests. And WoW when it was 3 months old. And EQ. And EQ2 when they were 3 months old. And LotRO when it was 3 months old. And....

 

I think you get my point.

Well I managed to level 2 characters to max level in largely different ways in Rift vanilla and LOTRO vanilla, no idea about EQ2, neither had the options EQ1 (had "best" zones, but at least 2-3 per level range) or WoW had (WoW had at least 2 completely different paths per faction at launch, might even have been 3), although in LOTRO with only 1 faction that was the same amount of paths (although in LOTRO you could get to L20 ish in 4 seperate ways with vanilla, it only closed in a bit after that)

I think another problem with SWTOR's levelling is the sheer linearity of it as well, it fails to draw the mind away from the path taken (which on several worlds feels exactly like a corridor), in a strange way the class quest doesn't help with this as it is leading you by the nose through levelling areas to a degree.

You eventually level all the class no matter the mmorpg you play if you play it long enough. I leveled every class minus the shaman and druid class cause I don't like the choice of race on horde side otherwise I would have leveled every class by the time I quit. It's just natural to get bored no matter the mmorpg, so you start leveling alts. At least with swtor you get a slightly different story each time you level a new class.

In wow I follow the exact same series of quest each time I level a character, which involves following the same leveling areas/regions while ignoring the text quest. In swtor, the stories are interesting with the ov. Even if you space bar a lot you eventually stop spacing cause each vo is a bit different and some sound better than others in certain quest. I always have to hear the inquisitor "jump in the sarlac pit" when you arrive on drom, despite having heard the phrase a few times already. It makes me laugh each time where in wow I don't think I ever laughed while quest leveling. Yes, some quest are boring, but overall I like to hear the dialogue with vo unless I don't like the voice.

The main problem with swtor are low pop servers. Blizzard needs to make sure servers are medium to heavy populated and not ghost or light servers. I play on switfsure and if the aussie leave in droves and consolidate swiftsure to a light server I'm just quit. I think that is the sentiment from people playing on low pop servers.

That is also a problem wow faces. There are so many ghost servers, but seem to have many more heavy populated servers than swtor.

Some people do nothing but level alts, even in WoW.

 

Even hardcore raiders will have more than one alt to ensure they can fill in missing spots for their raid groups, tank alts, healer alts, dps alts.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

Agreed I don't have 1 50 yet but I do have a 41,38,31,25 and a 21 because I love leveling alts

Well I managed to level 2 characters to max level in largely different ways in Rift vanilla and LOTRO vanilla, no idea about EQ2, neither had the options EQ1 (had "best" zones, but at least 2-3 per level range) or WoW had (WoW had at least 2 completely different paths per faction at launch, might even have been 3), although in LOTRO with only 1 faction that was the same amount of paths (although in LOTRO you could get to L20 ish in 4 seperate ways with vanilla, it only closed in a bit after that)

 

I think another problem with SWTOR's levelling is the sheer linearity of it as well, it fails to draw the mind away from the path taken (which on several worlds feels exactly like a corridor), in a strange way the class quest doesn't help with this as it is leading you by the nose through levelling areas to a degree.

I don't know how you managed to do that in RIFT. I played since Head Start. I had 8 characters, barely managed to get 2 to 50, and the second time through I wanted to beat my head against the wall because it was EXACTLY THE SAME. I couldn't even go to any other zones as an alternative, except for Droughtlands instead of IPP. That's a LOT less difference than TOR's, not to mention some of the worst lore I've ever experienced.

For me, leveling alts in SWtOR is more fun than in other MMOs but less fun than in single-player RPGs, even counting Bioware's own. I'm struggling to stay interested in alts significantly more than I did in ME and ME2 and slightly more than in DAO. The SWtOR story lines are good, but the amount of grind to get through them seems insufficient for the payoff once you've already gotten one character to 50. If I could just skip the non-story content on alts while magically being awarded the XP and items they would have provided, that would help, but then I'd lose out on potential decisions and ls/ds points. The repetition of the non-story content saps too much fun, and that repetition is worsened by every class being a glorified pet class. I'm not sure why that seems to bother me more in SWtOR than it did in the Mass Effect series, but it does. Partly it's because I could get through a run of ME in a fraction of the time it takes to get to 50 in SWtOR, so the action-to-grind ration is very different.

The other thing is, alts are the only thing I'm doing right now. Dailies bore me silly for too little reward. I'm not into PvP or raiding. So yeah, maybe an MMO just isn't a good fit; I'm open to that possibility after playing half a dozen of them over the last 10+ years.

There's a little problem with your math. When you level up alts, many of the quests are the same. You just fly through those without watching the story cuz you already know it. It is much faster to level up alts while enjoying the story than your formula assumes.

ok - your sig line made me spit my coffee out... I loved that show and that moment was epic classic.

I do not care about story. I did not care about story in WoW, AOC, AO, EQ, UO, etc. The only time I cared a little about the story was in Asheron's Call and only because each month they rolled out a new story and content.

I am not a Star Wars fan. I came here with friends who were and they all moved to more populated servers. I personally am only playing TOR until I can play GW2 or TSW, both of which I know nothing about.

I do not care about story. I did not care about story in WoW, AOC, AO, EQ, UO, etc. The only time I cared a little about the story was in Asheron's Call and only because each month they rolled out a new story and content.

 

I am not a Star Wars fan. I came here with friends who were and they all moved to more populated servers. I personally am only playing TOR until I can play GW2 or TSW, both of which I know nothing about.

Then why bother at all. Seriously. Many of us play the games WE want to play. I never play one just because my friends want to. I am not a follower.

Back on topic. I enjoy leveling alts. I have done so in every MMO I have ever played. In fact, there is little reason to play character past max level in most other MMO anyway as I feel the content just is never there. That is not to say that I do not like the "events" (there has only been one so far) in SWTOR. But, it only last so long and then I need something more interesting to do then just "grinding" commendations. OPs and FPs are fun but I can't do that all the time. And no thank you to PvP. So, alts is the only really fun aspect of any MMO...more so in SWTOR.

"Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?"

in order to enjoy the unique story line, and unique playing ability of different classes.

THAT is what bioware marketed to us. not endgame and getting to 50 in a week.

if all you care about is endgame and you only plan on doing the 1-50 thing once, this is probably not the game for you. This game is only 4 months in. We don't have years worth of end game raiding Expansions yet. go back to that game which will not be named.

Reasons I play SWTOR - (In order of importance to me.)

 

Story - I love the story lines. Being as there are 8 classes, and I consider myself a casual gamer (I've been playing almost 3 weeks and just finished Chapter 1 on my IA), I think I'll be fine for a while.

Space Combat - reminds me of the "way back" of X-Wing and Tie Fighter...

It's the best Sci-Fi MMO I've played.

It's freaking Star Wars!

<various miscellaneous reasons>

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

End-game Raiding

PvP

And, End-game raiding and PvP do not even make my list.

I read somewhere before release the devs built in 200 hours of play time per character (if someone chooses to play it). Last week I checked on my level 48 Bounty Hunter and she has been /played 7 days and some odd hours So, by 50, I expect she should see those 200 hours,. She has not done one flashpoint, one space battle nor stepped in to one warzone. There is plenty of content to be done before level 50. Even when I choose not to do all that is offered.

If people want to race to 50, skipping what has been put there for them to experience, that is how they have chosen to play, But, please, don't say MOST people play that way because in reality you don't know how MOST people like to play.

Then why bother at all. Seriously. Many of us play the games WE want to play. I never play one just because my friends want to. I am not a follower.

Great for you, but the few friends I have, and have had for over 25 years, live in different states now. Egocentric much?

Actually, I assume most people roll alts for one of a few reasons

- Bank and crafting alts

- Different combat roles to help fill spots (not exclusive to ops)

- To discover a play-style they enjoy

- To see NEW content.

 

The first 3 may or may not care for the content as they work toward that goal. This thread seems to be focused on the last type.

 

I guess my point is, how do people put up with the huge amount of repetition to see that new stuff?

See that's what I was trying to allude to though, there is enough new stuff just going with different classes and AC's that it doesn't feel like a whole lot of repetition. At least in the realm of class quests.